Story: "Hairpins" Part 15
Mar. 24th, 2014 12:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
This story belongs to the series Love Is For Children which includes "Love Is for Children," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys,""Saudades," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," "Birthday Girl," "No Winter Lasts Forever," "Hide and Seek," "Kernel Error," "Happy Hour," and "Green Eggs and Hulk."
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, JARVIS, Clint Barton, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanova, Bruce Banner.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: This story is mostly fluff, but it has some intense scenes in the middle. Highlight for details. These include dubious consent as Phil and JARVIS discuss what really happened when Agent Coulson hacked his way into Stark Tower, over which Phil has something between a flashback and a panic attack. They also discuss some of the bad things that have happened to Avengers in the past, including various flavors of abuse. If these are sensitive topics for you, please think carefully before deciding whether to read onward.
Summary: Uncle Phil needs to pick out pajamas for game night. He gets help from an unexpected direction.
Notes: Service. Shopping. Gifts. Artificial intelligence. Computers. Teamwork. Team as family. Friendship. Communication. Hope. Apologies. Forgiveness. Nonsexual ageplay. Nonsexual intimacy. Love. Tony Stark needs a hug. Bruce Banner needs a hug. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14. Skip to Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20.
"Hairpins" Part 15
Phil sighed. He picked out a handful of least-unlikely botanical patterns and saved them. Then he cleared the page again. "How about ordinary kiddie things," he said.
JARVIS obliged by calling up a fresh set of images. Unfortunately the selections here tended to be overly gendered, something that annoyed Phil in general when shopping for his littles. The prevailing blue palette was fine, but not the endless array of soldiers, cowboys, and knights. The subtle implication of conflict undercut the desired sense of comfort. Phil did not think that Bruce would like pajamas decorated with trains or backhoes any better. Judging from the sluggish rate of suggestions, neither did JARVIS.
"This doesn't feel right," Phil admitted. "Bruce doesn't have many positive memories of childhood. I'm not sure reprising that would help."
"It may be that we are approaching this from the wrong angle," JARVIS said. "What does Bruce get out of game night?"
"Safety," Phil said at once. "It helps him feel more secure about his place in the team. He's learning to express his emotions, now that people respect them. He likes being allowed to hide if that's what he needs."
"Protective camouflage," JARVIS murmured.
Phil shook his head. "No, Bruce hates the Army. We can't put him in camo."
"I was referring to cryptic coloration as it appears in nature, allowing animals to blend into their environment," JARVIS clarified. "For example, female birds often have drab plumage to disguise themselves while nesting."
"Bruce likes to blend in," Phil said. "He dresses to deflect attention from himself. Sometimes he acts as if he wants to sink into the carpet and disappear."
"He also avoids observation as much as possible -- not just on a physical level, as with shying away from cameras, but also on a psychological level," JARVIS said. "Bruce dislikes it when people try to read him. Sir is the only person who seems able to coax him out of his shell."
"At least they have Candyland," Phil said. Not long after the team moved into the tower, Tony had redesigned part of the lab space so that he and Bruce could share it. He also printed out an enormous sign with the title in classic candycane font, which he hung above the main door. It dated all the way back to some in-joke that Tony and Bruce had shared on the Helicarrier.
Phil flipped back to the collection of images he had of Bruce's clothes. Most were solids, but there were some with subtle patterns of stripes or dots, along with several soft plaids.
"Plaid is a traditional pattern for sleepwear," JARVIS remarked. "Children tend to dress in bright colors, but Bruce would probably prefer something quieter. The lines of a neutral plaid would blend into an indoor environment rather well."
"Good idea," Phil said. "Pull me some samples." The screen filled with fabric swatches in shades of brown and tan, similar to clothes that Bruce had worn in the past. Soon Phil found a nice mellow caramel. "Given Bruce's tendency to go through clothes quickly, we should probably pick more than one."
* * *
Notes:
Gendered clothes for children are a fairly recent phenomenon. This can restrict gender fluidity and cause problems for children. At this stage, Phil does not know what potential landmines he just avoided, but Bruce has some serious and deeply buried gender issues thanks to Brian Banner's A+ parenting, as seen in "Dolls and Guys" Part 10. Several of the Avengers are a little gender-variant in certain regards.
Gendered toys raise similar issues, hence Uncle Phil's resentment. They illustrate and enforce gender roles, causing difficulties for boys and girls alike. Note that Uncle Phil stocks the toy cabinet primarily with gender-neutral toys such as blocks and board games. Where there are gender-associated toys like dolls and trains, he encourages everyone to play with all of them, not split up by gender. There are only two girls in the group, and Natka isn't very girly; Betty is more likely to wind up playing girl things with Steve, Bruce, or Tony who all have different feminine aspects. Browse some good choices in gender-neutral toys.
Blending into a crowd is a useful skill for travel and survival. There are tips for blending in, avoiding attention, and not getting picked out of a crowd. (Notice the repeated advice on wearing drab, plain clothes.) This is what allows Bruce to thrive in foreign lands, as well as locally, and to elude capture most of the time.
Camouflage lets creatures to fade into their environment using multiple techniques. Here are some examples of protective camouflage in animals. Birds can adapt their camouflage, and often the females have dull colors for nesting safety.
Candyland is a game with editions in 1949, 1978, and other years. This box for the 1978 game shows the candycane font. Tony and Bruce would probably recognize this version, hence Tony's reference to it in The Avengers.
Plaid is a popular pajama pattern for children and adults.
Read about the symbolism for the color brown.
[To be continued in Part 16 ...]
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, JARVIS, Clint Barton, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanova, Bruce Banner.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: This story is mostly fluff, but it has some intense scenes in the middle. Highlight for details. These include dubious consent as Phil and JARVIS discuss what really happened when Agent Coulson hacked his way into Stark Tower, over which Phil has something between a flashback and a panic attack. They also discuss some of the bad things that have happened to Avengers in the past, including various flavors of abuse. If these are sensitive topics for you, please think carefully before deciding whether to read onward.
Summary: Uncle Phil needs to pick out pajamas for game night. He gets help from an unexpected direction.
Notes: Service. Shopping. Gifts. Artificial intelligence. Computers. Teamwork. Team as family. Friendship. Communication. Hope. Apologies. Forgiveness. Nonsexual ageplay. Nonsexual intimacy. Love. Tony Stark needs a hug. Bruce Banner needs a hug. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14. Skip to Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20.
"Hairpins" Part 15
Phil sighed. He picked out a handful of least-unlikely botanical patterns and saved them. Then he cleared the page again. "How about ordinary kiddie things," he said.
JARVIS obliged by calling up a fresh set of images. Unfortunately the selections here tended to be overly gendered, something that annoyed Phil in general when shopping for his littles. The prevailing blue palette was fine, but not the endless array of soldiers, cowboys, and knights. The subtle implication of conflict undercut the desired sense of comfort. Phil did not think that Bruce would like pajamas decorated with trains or backhoes any better. Judging from the sluggish rate of suggestions, neither did JARVIS.
"This doesn't feel right," Phil admitted. "Bruce doesn't have many positive memories of childhood. I'm not sure reprising that would help."
"It may be that we are approaching this from the wrong angle," JARVIS said. "What does Bruce get out of game night?"
"Safety," Phil said at once. "It helps him feel more secure about his place in the team. He's learning to express his emotions, now that people respect them. He likes being allowed to hide if that's what he needs."
"Protective camouflage," JARVIS murmured.
Phil shook his head. "No, Bruce hates the Army. We can't put him in camo."
"I was referring to cryptic coloration as it appears in nature, allowing animals to blend into their environment," JARVIS clarified. "For example, female birds often have drab plumage to disguise themselves while nesting."
"Bruce likes to blend in," Phil said. "He dresses to deflect attention from himself. Sometimes he acts as if he wants to sink into the carpet and disappear."
"He also avoids observation as much as possible -- not just on a physical level, as with shying away from cameras, but also on a psychological level," JARVIS said. "Bruce dislikes it when people try to read him. Sir is the only person who seems able to coax him out of his shell."
"At least they have Candyland," Phil said. Not long after the team moved into the tower, Tony had redesigned part of the lab space so that he and Bruce could share it. He also printed out an enormous sign with the title in classic candycane font, which he hung above the main door. It dated all the way back to some in-joke that Tony and Bruce had shared on the Helicarrier.
Phil flipped back to the collection of images he had of Bruce's clothes. Most were solids, but there were some with subtle patterns of stripes or dots, along with several soft plaids.
"Plaid is a traditional pattern for sleepwear," JARVIS remarked. "Children tend to dress in bright colors, but Bruce would probably prefer something quieter. The lines of a neutral plaid would blend into an indoor environment rather well."
"Good idea," Phil said. "Pull me some samples." The screen filled with fabric swatches in shades of brown and tan, similar to clothes that Bruce had worn in the past. Soon Phil found a nice mellow caramel. "Given Bruce's tendency to go through clothes quickly, we should probably pick more than one."
* * *
Notes:
Gendered clothes for children are a fairly recent phenomenon. This can restrict gender fluidity and cause problems for children. At this stage, Phil does not know what potential landmines he just avoided, but Bruce has some serious and deeply buried gender issues thanks to Brian Banner's A+ parenting, as seen in "Dolls and Guys" Part 10. Several of the Avengers are a little gender-variant in certain regards.
Gendered toys raise similar issues, hence Uncle Phil's resentment. They illustrate and enforce gender roles, causing difficulties for boys and girls alike. Note that Uncle Phil stocks the toy cabinet primarily with gender-neutral toys such as blocks and board games. Where there are gender-associated toys like dolls and trains, he encourages everyone to play with all of them, not split up by gender. There are only two girls in the group, and Natka isn't very girly; Betty is more likely to wind up playing girl things with Steve, Bruce, or Tony who all have different feminine aspects. Browse some good choices in gender-neutral toys.
Blending into a crowd is a useful skill for travel and survival. There are tips for blending in, avoiding attention, and not getting picked out of a crowd. (Notice the repeated advice on wearing drab, plain clothes.) This is what allows Bruce to thrive in foreign lands, as well as locally, and to elude capture most of the time.
Camouflage lets creatures to fade into their environment using multiple techniques. Here are some examples of protective camouflage in animals. Birds can adapt their camouflage, and often the females have dull colors for nesting safety.
Candyland is a game with editions in 1949, 1978, and other years. This box for the 1978 game shows the candycane font. Tony and Bruce would probably recognize this version, hence Tony's reference to it in The Avengers.
Plaid is a popular pajama pattern for children and adults.
Read about the symbolism for the color brown.
[To be continued in Part 16 ...]
Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-24 07:14 am (UTC)Frankly, your writing engrosses me well enough that, so far, every difficult concept has been MORE than amply "rewarded" by the wonderful portrayals of the characters. You write not to simply show "hurt/comfort," but to show (and hopefully,subtly tinker with) the psychological, emotional, and mental underpinnings of the universe where the story takes place. That's a million worlds away from writing... gore, of any stripe, with the primary purpose of shocking the audience. (It may have other purposes, but I'm not sure, as my tolerance for that kind of "entertainment" is so low as to be measured with a microscope. An electron microscope.)
Phil and Jarvis are beginning to communicate, to truly collaborate. I am delighted! They will NEED that trust, however tentative, when they begin to communicate about more personal topics.
I think Phil's "superpower" is his insight into human psychology. So far, I'm not seeing hints that he survived an abusive or traumatic childhood (quite the opposite, in fact, given how naturally he acts as caretaker, both as Agent Coulson and as Uncle Phil). Did you set out intentionally to make him a "model of preferred adult interactions"? Really, one can pick a psychological skill and place any other character (save Nick Fury, who is conspicuously absent in any meaningful way, thank you!) in a spectrum from "least able to deal with it," to Coulson's "sane and competent, fully adult" mindset.
That doesn't mean he isn't strongly emotional, or strongly affected; it's his resilience and confidence (in most definitions of the word) that I find engrossing.
For example,if the topic is "physical touch and emotions," Tony is probably the least able to cope with ANY element thereof. In canon he is either wildly inappropriate and "handsy", overly sexual and promiscuous, or so touch-phobic as to refuse any object being handed to him in CASE there might be skin-to-skin contact. He's, quite frankly, "a bit nuts" and definitely all over the map -- as it relates to THIS aspect of life. The other Avengers are portrayed with differing amounts of comfort/need for physical contact, and each employs SOME primary form of touch interaction, with Steve being the least noticeably affected (I argue that Clint uses his high perches to avoid casual touch, and that it is still a default behavior for him, long after it would've developed as a survival skill.) Phil can adjust and interact with each of them in ways that imply that he is most aware of his needs and preferences, the other person's needs and preferences... Then he takes it a step farther and ADJUSTS his interactions accordingly. That implies a great deal more self-awareness than just "typical adults". Then you take things a step farther, and imply that he is aware of dozens of different subcultures and how those elements change an individual's reactions. Superpower, in a nutshell! I see him in your stories as an extremely thoughtful, proactive person, and have a chuckle at his apparent mental checklist, "Hm, assess, plan, test, measure results, review, repeat as needed."
You've done one thing that keeps him from being a flat, useless Mary Sue: he makes mistakes. Things go wrong, even with his arsenal of skills and his many years dealing with increasingly unusual situations with cool aplomb, neither he nor the universe you draw for us are perfect.
We, the readers, are about to be front row center for the element of Coulson's personality I think is largely overlooked by Marvel canon: integrity. I don't want to speculate "aloud" yet, but I will readily admit to trying to predict how the "hacking" discussion between Jarvis and Phil will play out. The one thing I can easily predict is that Coulson IS an adult; he will face the results of an earlier mistake with integrity. Nick Fury is horribly aggravating to me in part BECAUSE he tends to blow off other people's reactions to HIS behavior as THEIR problem, and not evidence of exactly how callous, militant and ruthless he can be.
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-24 08:25 am (UTC)I'm glad that works for you. Most of this story is adorable fluff, but the angst parts are downright intense -- and that's coming up very soon now.
>> Frankly, your writing engrosses me well enough that, so far, every difficult concept has been MORE than amply "rewarded" by the wonderful portrayals of the characters. <<
Yaaayyy! That's always gratifying to hear. I try to make sure that the payoff is well matched to the climb.
>> You write not to simply show "hurt/comfort," but to show (and hopefully,subtly tinker with) the psychological, emotional, and mental underpinnings of the universe where the story takes place. <<
Yes, exactly. It's not just about the what, but the how and the why. It's like the difference between the formulaic plot of a mystery, and the storytelling. With something like superhero fic, the worldbuilding is an essential part of that. I got some wonderful new bits of that for Polychrome Heroics this week.
>> That's a million worlds away from writing... gore, of any stripe, with the primary purpose of shocking the audience. <<
Some people like to be shocked that way, much as some people enjoy electrical play, riding rollercoasters, or going into haunted houses. Not my cuppa.
>> (It may have other purposes, but I'm not sure, as my tolerance for that kind of "entertainment" is so low as to be measured with a microscope. An electron microscope.) <<
There are many reasons for reading and writing. Catharsis is another, for most intense topics. Also some people watch goreflix to desensitize themselves, which is useful in certain occupations.
>> Phil and Jarvis are beginning to communicate, to truly collaborate. I am delighted! <<
Yes, they are. One fun thing about writing the two of them is how well their skills match up. Despite JARVIS finding human emotions a little challenging to parse at times, and Phil having no prior experience with AI people, they are two of the best communicators on the team. Thus they tend to mesh well.
>> They will NEED that trust, however tentative, when they begin to communicate about more personal topics. <<
Absolutely. They're about to fall into the deep end, too.
>> I think Phil's "superpower" is his insight into human psychology. <<
I don't know if that one is officially listed, but yes, he can do far more than an ordinary person so I'd say it qualifies. Phil's handling insight is on par with Clint's archery aim.
>> So far, I'm not seeing hints that he survived an abusive or traumatic childhood (quite the opposite, in fact, given how naturally he acts as caretaker, both as Agent Coulson and as Uncle Phil). <<
As with Bucky and Steve, Phil's childhood was about as good as the Avengers get. Not perfect, but positive. Given his extreme competence and reserved bearing, I suspect that Phil grew up in a family with very high expectations. He probably had a lot of responsibilities, perhaps taking care of younger siblings or cousing, which he seems to enjoy. That can be stressful in its own way. Phil doesn't have a lot of damage -- but I'd bet his aversion to silence predates losing people off the comms, and goes back to the silent treatment as a childhood punishment. It's not violent, but for some people it's devastating.
>> Did you set out intentionally to make him a "model of preferred adult interactions"? <<
Yes. It's based on his calm competence in the movies. Most of the places where Phil seriously fucks up can be linked to orders or information routed through Director Fury, either directly or implied by context. I also draw heavily on the fact that -- despite some poor choices on Phil's part -- Tony chooses to trust him. There must be something powerful going on if someone as damaged as Tony can clock Phil as trustworthy.
>> Really, one can pick a psychological skill and place any other character (save Nick Fury, who is conspicuously absent in any meaningful way, thank you!) in a spectrum from "least able to deal with it," to Coulson's "sane and competent, fully adult" mindset. <<
Yes, that's true. The Avengers vary in their strengths, weaknesses, coping skills, and how much headwork they've done. Steve is in pretty good shape because, despite being dropped on his head several times, he has both innate resilience and a sturdy foundation. He'll hurt, but he'll heal from it. Betty is also coming on strong since she took years of therapy to fix the mess her father made of her life, and that worked.
Nick Fury, as portrayed in the movies, is barking mad. He does needlessly cruel things much the way villains do, yet is purportedly a good guy. He's supposed to be smart, but his actions are often stupid. This dichotomy between show and tell poses a literary problem. I had to come up with a logical way to explain that godawful mess, and eventually I found one I really like. But I still dislike Fury as a character, so I tend to avoid him as much as practical.
>> That doesn't mean he isn't strongly emotional, or strongly affected; it's his resilience and confidence (in most definitions of the word) that I find engrossing. <<
Sooth. I always strive to write balanced characters, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. The hints we have in canon -- for example, telling Black Widow what happened to Hawkeye -- imply that Phil has deep, powerful feelings that he keeps under control and rarely expresses in overt displays. He is calm and capable because people need an anchor. But nobody's invulnerable.
I like exploring the exceptions: how a weak person can gain strength, where a strong person breaks down, the one thing someone can't do well, etc.
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-24 02:45 pm (UTC)"I need you on this project, I've scaled your wall and I'm going to see you have a look over it and get your 'onboard'."
Obie was till dipping and he couldn't be bothered to either keep Tony on, or pay properly for his killing. Pepper and Rhodey at times don't 'get' Tony (and that's fine, friends don't have to be 'perfect')
Regarding Steve, yes. He's had bad set backs, but he knows what's right, and he can do what it takes all day, everyday.
Fury I can just squeak out him playing on a very constrained board, so his bad moves are the least harm he could manage across multiple vectors. The wallpapering is only soso, not leading me to put it front and center.
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-25 01:19 am (UTC)I agree with the constrained board theory. The WSC was willing to nuke New York. <.< I always read Fury as ruthless/practical. If the WSC is strong enough to get one of Fury's people to launch a nuke against Fury's orders wheger by subverting the pilots'(2 of them) loyalty or by trickery then Fury's options are limited. He isn't the type to quit on principle. I can totally see Fury following orders to the limit in order to separate the avengers from SHIELD/WSC. This doesn't mean Fury is a good guy just that he is being a bastard on purpose to split people away and create motivation for internal oversight. Someone has to be willing to fire thd rocket launcher to stop the nukes and Fury won't always be there. I can see him saying Sorry I hurt your pretty princess feelings but I need to go save the world now. Main problem with "The needs of the many override the needs of the few or the one."
Ameera
PS I love this series. :)
Re: Thank you!
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Date: 2014-04-13 04:34 am (UTC)"I need you on this project, I've scaled your wall and I'm going to see you have a look over it and get your 'onboard'." <<
I think so too. Tony just doesn't have many people in his life -- friends or enemies -- who stick around. They get what they want from him and then they split. Just the fact that Phil keeps coming back must earn him a lot of points. Phil is competent, and Tony always adores that. The soft-spoken demeanor and small size put him in a far safer zone than the likes of Obie.
>> Obie was till dipping and he couldn't be bothered to either keep Tony on, or pay properly for his killing. <<
Yeah, that was horrifying.
>> Pepper and Rhodey at times don't 'get' Tony (and that's fine, friends don't have to be 'perfect') <<
Agreed. They still help in their own ways.
>> Regarding Steve, yes. He's had bad set backs, but he knows what's right, and he can do what it takes all day, everyday. <<
Sooth. That helps everyone else too.
>> Fury I can just squeak out him playing on a very constrained board, so his bad moves are the least harm he could manage across multiple vectors. The wallpapering is only soso, not leading me to put it front and center. <<
To some extent this is true. It's just frustrating to see him taking a cannon to a cockroach.
Re: Thank you!
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Date: 2014-03-24 08:54 am (UTC)Yes, that's true, although Bruce is also skittish as hell. He spends most of the movie skulking and cringing.
>> In canon he is either wildly inappropriate and "handsy", overly sexual and promiscuous, or so touch-phobic as to refuse any object being handed to him in CASE there might be skin-to-skin contact. <<
I tend to parse Tony's aversion as "being handed things" rather than "being handed things." I think he's afraid that the object itself will prove dangerous, rather than being squeamish about skin contact. However, I agree that there's enough context (frex, Obie's creeptastic manhandling of Tony) to support your interpretation. There are definitely times Tony resists being touched, as in refusing medical attention after Afghanistan.
>> He's, quite frankly, "a bit nuts" and definitely all over the map -- as it relates to THIS aspect of life. <<
Agreed.
>> The other Avengers are portrayed with differing amounts of comfort/need for physical contact, and each employs SOME primary form of touch interaction, with Steve being the least noticeably affected <<
Yes, that makes sense.
Again, Steve survived a disadvantaged childhood but he and Bucky had each other. They had love, and that makes all the difference, especially with healthy touch dynamics. Even with all his bonds ripped out by the roots, Steve knows how to form connections with other people. It's just a matter of waiting for the damage to heal enough (thank you, Fury, for making that so much worse) that Steve can tolerate the contact long enough to mesh. If you look at "Love Is for Children" where Steve first comes into game night, you can see him very gingerly testing the contact with Phil to see how tender it is, before deciding that it's healed enough he can put emotional weight on it now.
>> (I argue that Clint uses his high perches to avoid casual touch, and that it is still a default behavior for him, long after it would've developed as a survival skill.) <<
I suspect that's part of it. Clint was physically abused by his family, and then again by some people in the circus. I've often seen the interpretation that he scrambled up into the rigging to get out of reach, which is highly plausible. So now he just feels safe and comfortable up high. Follow that by having been attacked in a professional context countless times, and you get a very watchful, skittish Clint.
The heartbreaking thing is that Clint also has skin hunger. Like Bruce, he gets trapped between that need and his touch aversion. It's miserable. I think they're good for each other because they both understand that and can find ways to work around it until they make comfort contact.
>> Phil can adjust and interact with each of them in ways that imply that he is most aware of his needs and preferences, the other person's needs and preferences... <<
Yes, exactly. Like Clint, Phil sees everything, though in a different way.
>> Then he takes it a step farther and ADJUSTS his interactions accordingly. <<
See now, this is another thing that Phil has in common with JARVIS. They are both learning systems and they both have an exceptional capacity for adapting to each new user.
>> That implies a great deal more self-awareness than just "typical adults". <<
Well, he's not SHIELD's best handler for nothing. Top spy organization, top man in the job, so Phil is the one they ask to field the world's first superhero team. ("If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.") Phil's performance implies the skills to hold it up.
>> Then you take things a step farther, and imply that he is aware of dozens of different subcultures and how those elements change an individual's reactions. Superpower, in a nutshell! <<
Exactly.
>> I see him in your stories as an extremely thoughtful, proactive person, and have a chuckle at his apparent mental checklist, "Hm, assess, plan, test, measure results, review, repeat as needed." <<
Nailed it.
>> You've done one thing that keeps him from being a flat, useless Mary Sue: he makes mistakes. <<
There are no overpowered characters, only underpowered challenges.
>> Things go wrong, even with his arsenal of skills and his many years dealing with increasingly unusual situations with cool aplomb, neither he nor the universe you draw for us are perfect. <<
How far do you tighten a screw? A quarter-turn before it strips.
How far do you torque off a character? A quarter-turn after he strips.
I like to find that line between what people can handle and what they can't. I don't want to destroy them completely, because that usually isn't satisfying; but I want to see where and how they start to fray, and how they recover.
In worldbuilding, I have a whole spectrum from places that are horrible to places that are wonderful. There are always little glints of light in the darkness, and always tiny flaws in the marvels. For nothing in material creation is all one thing or all the other, but a blend of some degree. So too, the line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man; and that's a key concept in superhero stories.
It's about how far your skills can take you, and what you do when that's not good enough. It's about how far you'll go in pursuit of a goal, what moral boundaries you will or won't push, and how you respond when something shoves you over that line anyway.
>> We, the readers, are about to be front row center for the element of Coulson's personality I think is largely overlooked by Marvel canon: integrity. <<
Yes. Ever see a show like that? You might want to open your umbrella before I hit the watermelon with the hammer.
>> I don't want to speculate "aloud" yet, but I will readily admit to trying to predict how the "hacking" discussion between Jarvis and Phil will play out. <<
You can always contact me backchannel if you want to guess how close you got, without spoiling anyone.
>> The one thing I can easily predict is that Coulson IS an adult; he will face the results of an earlier mistake with integrity. <<
Yes, exactly. Something else I've explored in this series is how he deals with some of the mistakes he made in the movies. We've already seen Phil apologize to Steve for the clusterfuck of Steve waking up alone and then Phil's wretchedly embarrassing first meeting.
>> Nick Fury is horribly aggravating to me in part BECAUSE he tends to blow off other people's reactions to HIS behavior as THEIR problem, and not evidence of exactly how callous, militant and ruthless he can be. <<
I agree. He creates problems, then blames others and refuses to help fix anything. This is not how an effective leader behaves. Fury fits the profile of an abusive boss, and you can see the negative effects in the way some (but fortunately not all) other SHIELD personnel act. I have quietly laid examples of this throughout the series, to show that a bad boss can ruin a good organization. Then somebody else has to clean up the mess. Often that's Phil here.
Phil and Marvel Studios canon
Date: 2014-03-24 09:41 am (UTC)Re: Phil and Marvel Studios canon
Date: 2014-03-29 10:55 pm (UTC)That's good to hear.
>> because in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. TV show, Fury send to be trying to heal Phil by breaking him. <<
O_O
That seems to be Fury's approach to everyone. Look what he did to poor Steve, who frankly did not need that kind of encouragement.
Fury's going to be lucky if he doesn't wind up on the wrong end Dr. Banner's temper and a high-velocity barrage of Greek on the topic of "First, do no harm."
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-24 04:26 pm (UTC)>> I tend to parse Tony's aversion as "being handed []things[]" rather than "being handed things." I think he's afraid that the object itself will prove dangerous, rather than being squeamish about skin contact. However, I agree that there's enough context (frex, Obie's creeptastic manhandling of Tony) to support your interpretation. There are definitely times Tony resists being touched, as in refusing medical attention after Afghanistan.<<
Probably more correct than my assessment, and then you bring up Obie--- in canon he's a "creepy uncle" type to the point that I can TOTALLY believe that Obie abused Tony as a child in egregious ways and then convinced Tony to HIDE that from his parents, because the situation was "Tony's fault", worsening the damage exponentially. It's all speculation on my part and entirely due to the way Jeff Bridges played the character; him sitting at the piano playing a piece written by Antonio Salieri was just the icing on the cake. Obie is a freaking CONTINENT of abuse indicators (and triggers) to explore.
BUT- refusing medical attention doesn't scream "touch aversion" to me, it screams of a desperate need for CONTROL. When I have gone to most doctors, there is absolutely NO empathy or patience for what is euphemistically called "a difficult reaction to certain procedures". That makes trying to get through a very necessary checkup into an event it'll take weeks to work through emotionally, even with supportive people around me and better skills each year. I found Tony's decision to postpone that particular problem totally realistic.
Take a look at the interactions between Steve and Bucky in the first Captain America movie; there's a LOT of different types of touch between them. Steve in that movie gets a LOT of different kinds of tactile input, and drawing is a very, very tactile media (especially charcoals, pastels and even pencil, compared to the typical handwriting on smooth paper). Steve's library of given/received touch is probably the broadest of the main Avengers.
Natasha doesn't choose/initiate a lot of touch on-screen, but receives and returns quite a bit of both physically and sexually aggressive touch. I think she uses touch as a tool, but it's one she has little use for when "off duty".
Clint is an interesting character for this topic, too: his clothing is HIGHLY tactile, he chooses a HIGHLY tactile weapon, preferring it to pistols and rifles. I think he's just not ready to allow people the same level of tactility. Natasha and Phil are both exceptions to his usual behaviors, which shows that he's learned some more positive behaviors with time and opportunity.
Thor is surrounded by an assortment of textures and people giving him friendly touch, but he needs to learn to interpret other people's reactions, and basically dial it down, both due to his strength and his upbringing. He just doesn't see or understand why the others react the ways they do, but doesn't intend ill, and can learn a lot from game nights as a result. Eventually. It really doesn't feel like he's "missing" from the series; more like the other's aren't ready for him yet.
Betty... You've filled in a great many gaps in the portrayal of the character in canon. I tend to treat your version as a mostly-OC character with very strong implied connections to the original, because the Hulk movies are nearly as contradictory as the comic books. She becomes an outlier, but is definitely a more feminine counterpoint of Phil. I think of your scenes with Betty as those the movie directors left on the cutting room floor, and think the directors are therefore the weaker storytellers.
And then there's Bruce. Sheesh, on the topic of touch starvation, he needs his own volume! In canon his clothing is very drab, but also very SMOOTH. Cotton and cotton blends, knit tee shirts, smooth woven shirts, the least textured beige slacks, et cetera, et cetera. Even the purple "mas... stretchy?" pants are that way. He doesn't work with highly tactile media, and in fact when he is in the lab, tends to do things which require either single glove or double-glove safety precautions. (At least Tony gets into the engines of his cars, which is a tactile FEAST compared to his holographic computer interface!)
I'm extremely glad that your Bruce set his age at game night as low as he did, but my gut feeling is that he didn't set it as low as he wanted to out of (multiple kinds of) fear. When he finally learns that not all hands are going to hurt him, he can open up a bit and cuddle, and LEARN which kinds of touch he prefers.
Hulk is separate from Bruce in a lot of ways. He has far less experience, far less cerebral reactions and interpretations, and far more directly emotional responses. Like your "Green Eggs and Hulk", I see Hulk as between two and three years old (emotionally)... frankly, "older" than Bruce's default avoid-avoid-avoid-startle! reactions. Bruce's reactions make me think of descriptions of infants so neglected they've developed flat spots in their skulls from being left lying unattended for extremely long periods. He's SO starved for touch that he doesn't even recognize the NEED yet. He needs something, something, something... That confusion is one of the many things that fuels the Hulk.
Finding ways to show Bruce and Hulk different kinds of nurturing without resorting to the tropes of a "de-aging fic" or "physical split" is a dance I'll very much enjoy watching someone else (you) do. You can't even fall back on the "sick fic" trope, as Bruce/Hulk don't GET sick any longer. (Me, I just get to the scene where a physically split off, kid-size Hulk calls Fury a "meanie", crosses his arms and stamps a very bare, very green foot, and am laughing too much to actually WRITE any of it.)
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-25 06:14 pm (UTC)I still think yours has some relevance, though; Tony is complicated.
>> and then you bring up Obie--- in canon he's a "creepy uncle" type to the point that I can TOTALLY believe that Obie abused Tony as a child in egregious ways <<
For the purposes of this series, I'm interpreting that as psychological abuse and physical manhandling. I wholeheartedly support people who run it as sexual abuse, though; there's more than enough evidence for it. (If Obie had done the same things to Antonia Stark, the audience would have run screaming out of the theaters.) But now you've got me thinking in subtler terms. I don't think Obie's physical abuse ever went to the belts and whips level, just completely ignored Tony's boundaries. So there might in fact be a subliminal sexual edge to what happened -- unwanted cuddling, pulling a younger Tony onto his lap, etc. No genital contact, never anything that could be pinned down and proven, just ... creepy. Enough to damage Tony in ways that set him up for the clusterfuck of college.
And it's typical for sexual abuse victims to be abandoned when they get "too old." Obie let it go on a lot longer than usual, but might still play into him getting tired of Tony. Especially if Obie had found someone new to play with. Wow, good thing Pepper fried him.
>> and then convinced Tony to HIDE that from his parents, because the situation was "Tony's fault", worsening the damage exponentially. <<
That's possible. It would help explain why Tony's communication is bizarrely split between inappropriately loose babble and a secretive inability to discuss important topics with close friends.
>> It's all speculation on my part and entirely due to the way Jeff Bridges played the character; him sitting at the piano playing a piece written by Antonio Salieri was just the icing on the cake. <<
What's the connection with Salieri?
>> Obie is a freaking CONTINENT of abuse indicators (and triggers) to explore. <<
Too true. Poor Tony. Poor JARVIS and DUM-E too.
Re: Thank you!
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Date: 2014-03-24 10:45 am (UTC)>> (I argue that Clint uses his high perches to avoid casual touch, and that it is still a default behavior for him, long after it would've developed as a survival skill.) <<
i think that too. and air vents. i think 2 reasons - one for being able to see people, he feels safe when he knows he can see people coming and won't be surprised. and the other one from being able to go away from people (and touching) whenever he wants.
also ysa i am glad you don't write about nick fury much. because i don't like him and i think he's scary and mean but also i don't like stories that are mean to people in a nasty way. lots of people if they don't like a character they write stories where they're mean to that charecter and it makes me feel scared too. so i like that you just write him pretty much as irrelevant in their day-to-day life most of the time. it's good for me.
- nonny75
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-25 09:14 am (UTC)*hugs* I'm happy to hear that.
>> i think that too. and air vents. i think 2 reasons - one for being able to see people, he feels safe when he knows he can see people coming and won't be surprised. and the other one from being able to go away from people (and touching) whenever he wants. <<
It's a control issue for Clint. He sees better from a distance, both literally and figuratively. Up high, he can see things that don't make sense up close. He can come down and touch people by choice, but when he's aloft, it's very difficult for anyone to pounce on him.
>> also ysa i am glad you don't write about nick fury much. because i don't like him and i think he's scary and mean but also i don't like stories that are mean to people in a nasty way. <<
That's useful to know, thanks.
>> lots of people if they don't like a character they write stories where they're mean to that charecter and it makes me feel scared too. <<
I do this occasionally, but it's not a prevailing theme in most of what I write.
>> so i like that you just write him pretty much as irrelevant in their day-to-day life most of the time. it's good for me. <<
Well, this series is really about emotional recovery and teambonding. When it comes to that sort of thing, Nick Fury is useless as tits on a boar.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-24 10:46 am (UTC)i kept forgetting to ask but did you have any other stories that aren't on ao3 which have people from stories i might know? like ones with bruce or tony or harry potter or anybody like that with famous stories. not poem ones though, ones like stories - i don't know why but the poem ones take a lot more of my brain to read them and i don't have energy so i just want easy stories.
i don't feel much like reading stories i don't know at the moment because i don't have energy for coping when the stories have bad things and i know if i read yours they are really really safe because you always warn really well so i feel safe. actually i am going to read all the love is for children stories again from the start i think, but if you have any others that would be nice too :)
thank you for writing so much for us.
from nonny75
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Date: 2014-04-13 04:42 am (UTC)It's okay. Comment when you have the energy; it's always welcome but never obligatory.
>> i kept forgetting to ask but did you have any other stories that aren't on ao3 which have people from stories i might know? like ones with bruce or tony or harry potter or anybody like that with famous stories. <<
Your best bet is probably the Schrodinger's Heroes crossovers. The fandoms are listed with each piece. I don't write a lot of straight-up fanfic but the crossovers are fun.
>> not poem ones though, ones like stories - i don't know why but the poem ones take a lot more of my brain to read them and i don't have energy so i just want easy stories. <<
That's okay too. The crossovers are mostly sorted stories from poems so you can pick out the fiction parts.
>> i don't feel much like reading stories i don't know at the moment because i don't have energy for coping when the stories have bad things and i know if i read yours they are really really safe because you always warn really well so i feel safe. <<
That's understandable. I'm glad you find these so comforting.
>> actually i am going to read all the love is for children stories again from the start i think, but if you have any others that would be nice too :) <<
Good idea.
>> thank you for writing so much for us. <<
You're welcome!
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-24 04:01 pm (UTC)As always, I am eager for more, and awed by what you've gifted us already. Thank you.
-kellyc
You're welcome!
Date: 2014-03-26 06:37 am (UTC)I'm so glad to hear that.
>> You make me want to cuddle this, and your brain. May I internet-cuddle your brain? <<
*cuddle*
I'm perfectly okay with intellectual cuddling.
>> Or is that weird? <<
I'm weird. I am happy to be weird. I consider brain-snuggling to be a healthy and fun activity, but then I am differently civilized.
>> As always, I am eager for more, and awed by what you've gifted us already. Thank you. <<
*bow, flourish* Happy to be of service.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-25 04:21 am (UTC)That's ever so much more comforting a phrasing than "a medium-light slightly yellowish brown".
Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-27 12:48 am (UTC)Word choice is a subtle, powerful aspect of writing. The word carries the connotation, which shapes the tone of story and the emotional impact for the reader.
Caramel is sweet, but not sharp; it has a creamy note. It's a quiet flavor. It often comes salted. It's something Bruce likes; he's into saltwater taffy too.
Word choice in a case like this also forms a bridge between the two characters, because both Phil's internal vocabulary and his thoughts about Bruce will influence how he thinks and what he says.
Not a lot of people write prose this way, but I always have. Vivid description is among the most salient features of my writing style. I think it's carryover from writing poetry, where each word holds more weight because the total length is smaller.
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2014-03-27 03:07 am (UTC)Well, I'm glad you do. And you write -- at least, post -- in fairly short bites, so the same applies.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-27 03:18 pm (UTC)Bruce might well know this or even a later edition. How old was he when [redacted to avoid needing a trigger warning]?
Mass printed photography even in picture puzzles doesn't come until, mid 50s early 60s? And that is why puzzles were so popular, you could see a very large picture, that gave hours of entertainment. Plenty of people swapped, so for very little you might see Carnival in Mexico, the Grand Canyon, European Castle, Hawaii...
Single color printing of ephemera. Didn't have to be black, but lining up two plates cost more. Frozen food packages and breakfast cereal boxes were an exception.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-27 05:59 pm (UTC)Because those two items were some of the first heavily marketed, nationwide convenience foods. They were also heavily advertised, from what I've seen in magazines of the day, with only cigarettes having a bigger ad share. (Especially, cigarette ads took up more space per ad.)
I'm from a slightly later generation- my Grandfather was one of the classic WW2 vets looking to settle with family in suburbia after he mustered out-- but my interest in history woke sometime in my twenties and has been ravenous ever since.
Thanks for the details, Peoria. Trying to imagine my grandfather as Steve's age, suddenly jumping an entire lifespan forward tends to skip over the details we overlook, like color ads in magazines and color print in newspapers.
-Sarah-
(no subject)
Date: 2014-03-27 06:18 pm (UTC)Steve fits right between my Grandmothers. We'd be a weird mix of Dick Tracy, Buck Rogers and "Did you just give up?"
That books come with color pictures of paintings, that'd be big. Steve may have read the Everyman series, though I bet those books he pulled out at bootcamp represented more than we can imagine, and might have been castoffs or some such.
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Date: 2014-04-13 09:37 pm (UTC)Good points.
>> I'm from a slightly later generation- my Grandfather was one of the classic WW2 vets looking to settle with family in suburbia after he mustered out-- but my interest in history woke sometime in my twenties and has been ravenous ever since. <<
Sooth. That's some of my background too.
>> Thanks for the details, Peoria. Trying to imagine my grandfather as Steve's age, suddenly jumping an entire lifespan forward tends to skip over the details we overlook, like color ads in magazines and color print in newspapers. <<
It's something I use. I've always had a strong affinity for that generation.
Thoughts
Date: 2014-04-13 10:12 pm (UTC)That's possible too.
>> Bruce might well know this or even a later edition. How old was he when [redacted to avoid needing a trigger warning]? <<
In canon, it varies over a pretty wide range. In Love Is For Children, toddler age.
>> Mass printed photography even in picture puzzles doesn't come until, mid 50s early 60s? <<
Thenabouts, I think. Evidently the press-cut versions came out in the 1930s but expense kept them from becoming really common for a while. They were more popular in the 1960s, and modern improvements have made the process much cheaper and the products much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigsaw_puzzle
>> And that is why puzzles were so popular, you could see a very large picture, that gave hours of entertainment. Plenty of people swapped, so for very little you might see Carnival in Mexico, the Grand Canyon, European Castle, Hawaii... <<
Steve probably had access to some puzzles growing up, although they may well have been the older, true jigsaw puzzles. Anybody with a jigsaw could paint or even glue something on a slab of wood and cut it up. People would have tried to route him toys that he could use without overexerting himself to the point of wheezing, and it would've given him and Bucky early experience with trading for what they wanted or helping other people get some coveted item.
>> Single color printing of ephemera. Didn't have to be black, but lining up two plates cost more. Frozen food packages and breakfast cereal boxes were an exception. <<
True.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2014-04-14 01:39 am (UTC)Steve may have laid out battles of tin soldiers with his blanket covered body the field.
Not sure if the wooden 3D puzzles would have been something he'd have had access to.
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