Story: "No Winter Lasts Forever" (Part 55)
Jul. 6th, 2013 12:15 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis story is a sequel to "Love Is for Children," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," and "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," and "Birthday Girl."
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanova, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Hulk, Steve Rogers, Betty Ross, JARVIS, Bucky Barnes, Nick Fury.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Mind control. Inferences of past child abuse and other torture. Current environment is supportive.
Summary: A mission in Russia introduces the Avengers to the Winter Soldier. Steve wants Bucky back and will stop at nothing to make that happen. Everyone else helps however they can.
Notes: Asexual character (Clint). Aromantic character (Natasha). Asexual relationship. Sibling relationships. Fix-it. Teamwork. Canon-typical violence. BAMF!Avengers. Bucky!whump. Vulgar language. Drama. Rescue. Hurt/Comfort. Emotional whump. Survivor guilt. Friendship. Confusion. Mind control. Memory loss. Slow recovery. Nick Fury makes stupid-ass decisions. Fear of loss. Arc reactor. Fluff. Nonsexual ageplay. Making up for lost time. Tony Stark has a heart. Games. Trust issues. Safety and security. Howard Stark's A+ parenting. Obadiah Stane's A+ parenting. Brian Banner's A+ parenting. Food issues. Multiplicity/Plurality. Sleep issues. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Yoga. Personal growth. Family of choice. ALL THE FEELS. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26, Part 27, Part 28, Part 29, Part 30, Part 31, Part 32, Part 33, Part 34, Part 35, Part 36, Part 37, Part 38, Part 39, Part 40, Part 41, Part 42, Part 43, Part 44, Part 45, Part 46, Part 47, Part 48, Part 49, Part 50, Part 51, Part 52, Part 53, Part 54. Skip to Part 57, Part 58, Part 59, Part 60.
"No Winter Lasts Forever" Part 55
"Relax ... try to match up your breathing," Bruce coached. Bucky, along with Steve, seemed to do a better job of following the directions this time. "Now look up."
Steve couldn't meet Bucky's eyes. He gave a pained gasp and dropped his gaze. Then Steve covered his face with both hands.
Phil whipped around, narrowly avoiding the hot door of the open oven. "Everything all right over there?" he asked.
"Close enough," Betty said. She patted Steve's shoulder. He leaned against her for comfort. "Don't be too hard on yourself, Steve. Even streamlined, this isn't beginner stuff." Phil nodded and shut the oven door, setting the timer for the quiche.
"What's not beginner stuff?" Tony asked as he came into the kitchen.
"Bruce is teaching me this thing he and Betty do to sit on the Hulk," Bucky said. "I really need to get a better handle on my temper. Only I'm having a hard time getting this to work with anyone and -- hey, wait, you and I connected pretty well. Pair up with me?"
"I wouldn't advise it," Bruce said.
"That's because you have no sense of adventure," Tony said with a sharp grin. He grabbed a chair and swung it around, straddling the back. "Will this work? 'Cause I like you, Bucky, but not enough to sit in your lap."
"That will do," Bruce said wearily. "Sit up straight, focus -- oh no, don't you dare." He pushed their hands apart, where Bucky was reaching for Tony's chest and Tony for Bucky's left arm. "You two already got yourselves in enough trouble doing that earlier. We're making this slow and simple, as much as it can be. So. Look down. Focus on your breathing for a minute. ... Eyes up now."
Phil watched them as he pulled assorted vegetables from the refrigerator for a stir-fry. Bucky and Tony held each other's gaze for five seconds, ten ... then abruptly pulled away at the same time.
Tony backed hastily away, his eyes too bright. "I, uh, forgot ... think I left something on in the lab," he said as he fled the room.
"I'll go after him and make sure he's all right," Betty said, following.
"Bucky, are you okay?" Bruce asked. "You look a little shaken."
"I dunno, I feel weird ... kind of dizzy," Bucky said.
"Put your feet flat on the floor. Elbows on your knees. Head down," Bruce said. He cupped a hand over the back of Bucky's head and guided him into position. "Take slow, deep breaths. Settle your energy. Think of being yourself and only yourself."
"Yeah, like that's gonna work," Bucky said bleakly.
"Steve, I need one clear memory to use as a focus for him, something from childhood," Bruce said.
"The bakery in our old neighborhood, the smell of pastrami and rye," Steve said instantly.
"Good," Bruce said. "Bucky, just concentrate on that. When you've got a clear focus on it, move forward to the here-and-now. Get yourself back in your own skin." Bucky stirred under his grasp. Bruce let go. "Stretch out a little." Bucky shifted, then slowly stood up. "Better now?" Bruce asked.
"Yeah, I think so," Bucky said. "Um ... what just happened?"
"You overloaded yourself with a meditative exercise that was too much for your current skill level. It's about like a beginner walking into a gym and picking up the heaviest dumbbell, after the coach told him not to," Bruce said. "Now, the next time I warn you about something, are you going to listen to me?"
"I'll think about it, maybe," Bucky said with a sheepish look.
"You had better think about it," Phil said. "Why don't you come over here where I can keep you out of trouble? Wash your hands first. Then scrub the vegetables for Bruce's stir-fry." He stationed Bucky at the sink. Simple tasks would help him readjust to everyday life.
Steve snickered. "I wondered how long it would take you to wind up with KP."
"What, and you never?" Bucky said as he worked.
"I learned very early not to tease Bruce, and especially, not to ignore his warnings," Steve said, no longer laughing.
"Thank you, Steve," Bruce said as he moved to the counter. He reached past Bucky to rinse his hands. "Bucky, if you still want to learn meditation, it's a good way to work on your self-control and on relaxation. Come down to the gym with me some time and I'll start you on the basics. The same goes for Tony, and I'll tell him that too, although I suspect that Betty already has."
"Yes, sir," Bucky said quietly.
Bruce accepted the vegetables as Bucky passed them to him. With quick strokes of a knife, Bruce chopped them and swept them into a skillet with a little clarified butter. He stirred them around with a spatula. "Here, keep this going for me, would you?" Bruce said to Phil.
Phil accepted the spatula and stirred the vegetables. Meanwhile Bruce assembled a collection of spices. The Avengers' kitchen had a wider selection of seasonings than most restaurants. It had to, given everyone's globe-trotting habits; they had learned recipes from many different cultures.
"Bucky, watch what I do," Bruce said. With deft motions, Bruce measured out each spice into a little wooden tray, creating a mosaic of colored piles. "This way, I can check to make sure that I remembered to include all the spices in the masala." He stirred them together with brisk strokes and then sprinkled the result over the vegetables.
That's a good memory trick for spices, Phil thought as he kept the spatula going. Fragrant steam rose from the shallow pan.
Next Bruce opened a jar of preserved lemons, removed one with a spoon, and started chopping it.
"Ooo! Lemon pickles!" Bucky exclaimed. He hovered around Bruce. "Can I have one? Please?"
"Sure, take all you want; we have plenty. I like these for the salt," Bruce said. He handed Bucky the jar and spoon. Then he scraped the chopped lemon inot the stir-fry, taking the spatula from Phil.
Bucky eagerly dug into the jar. "These are so good," he said, eyes squeezing closed with pleasure as he ate. There were two lemons left in the bottom of the jar. "Steve, do you want one?"
Steve shook his head. "No, thanks. You like sour things more than I do."
* * *
Notes:
Synchronized breathing is a common practice in partner yoga. Paying attention to breath can reveal many insights.
Eye contact is a vital aspect of body language. Looking down can indicate submission (as in Bruce) or guilt (as in Steve). In therapy or other intimate situations, the eyes reveal much about a person's thoughts and feelings. Think about how you make eye contact, and learn to look people in the eye.
Steve has a huge case of survivor guilt, primarily because he blames himself for letting Bucky fall off the train -- although other experiences may contribute as well, such as ordering the portal closed during the Battle of New York. This happens a lot to after war and other traumatic events. It particularly affects first responders, and in this context, superheroes count. There are ways of dealing with survivor guilt.
Kundalini mishaps are real, and like most hazards, variable in intensity. What happened with the Avengers is a pretty typical example of eager novices over-extending themselves; scary, but not too dangerous. Any time you work with energy, there's a chance of overload. Stay calm, understand how to deal with dizziness, how to get grounded and centered again. Notice that Bruce takes a more practical than ethereal approach. He's a kitchen-sink mystic because he comes at from the science side, not the spiritual side. So he focuses on physical steps, and explains things in pretty simple terms, but he still winds up in a lot of the same territory using similar techniques as the more esoteric folks do.
Everyday tasks can pose challenges for people with dementia, traumatic brain injury, PTSD or other mental issues. However, they are fulfilling and can help people get back into ordinary life. Sometimes meditation helps PTSD. Limiting choices, giving simple instructions, and working on easy tasks improve the chance of success.
Clarified butter, or ghee, resists burning and makes an ideal saute medium. And it's good for you too! Since discovering this, I have rarely used anything else.
Masala is a Hindi word for spice blend. There are bafat, garam, and many other types of masala. If you look at the pictures in those articles, you'll see examples of pouring spices next to each other in a dish. When you're combining half a dozen to a dozen of them, it really helps with tracking.
Preserved lemons come in many versions. Meyer lemons are especially popular for preserving. There are salty, sour, sweet, spicy, and all-flavors recipes. I found lots of sources recommending the use of preserved lemons in stir-fry, but no recipes, so here's a general description of how to make Indian stir-fry. Just add lemon pickles, I guess.
[To be continued in Part 56 ...]
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanova, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Hulk, Steve Rogers, Betty Ross, JARVIS, Bucky Barnes, Nick Fury.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Mind control. Inferences of past child abuse and other torture. Current environment is supportive.
Summary: A mission in Russia introduces the Avengers to the Winter Soldier. Steve wants Bucky back and will stop at nothing to make that happen. Everyone else helps however they can.
Notes: Asexual character (Clint). Aromantic character (Natasha). Asexual relationship. Sibling relationships. Fix-it. Teamwork. Canon-typical violence. BAMF!Avengers. Bucky!whump. Vulgar language. Drama. Rescue. Hurt/Comfort. Emotional whump. Survivor guilt. Friendship. Confusion. Mind control. Memory loss. Slow recovery. Nick Fury makes stupid-ass decisions. Fear of loss. Arc reactor. Fluff. Nonsexual ageplay. Making up for lost time. Tony Stark has a heart. Games. Trust issues. Safety and security. Howard Stark's A+ parenting. Obadiah Stane's A+ parenting. Brian Banner's A+ parenting. Food issues. Multiplicity/Plurality. Sleep issues. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Yoga. Personal growth. Family of choice. ALL THE FEELS. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26, Part 27, Part 28, Part 29, Part 30, Part 31, Part 32, Part 33, Part 34, Part 35, Part 36, Part 37, Part 38, Part 39, Part 40, Part 41, Part 42, Part 43, Part 44, Part 45, Part 46, Part 47, Part 48, Part 49, Part 50, Part 51, Part 52, Part 53, Part 54. Skip to Part 57, Part 58, Part 59, Part 60.
"No Winter Lasts Forever" Part 55
"Relax ... try to match up your breathing," Bruce coached. Bucky, along with Steve, seemed to do a better job of following the directions this time. "Now look up."
Steve couldn't meet Bucky's eyes. He gave a pained gasp and dropped his gaze. Then Steve covered his face with both hands.
Phil whipped around, narrowly avoiding the hot door of the open oven. "Everything all right over there?" he asked.
"Close enough," Betty said. She patted Steve's shoulder. He leaned against her for comfort. "Don't be too hard on yourself, Steve. Even streamlined, this isn't beginner stuff." Phil nodded and shut the oven door, setting the timer for the quiche.
"What's not beginner stuff?" Tony asked as he came into the kitchen.
"Bruce is teaching me this thing he and Betty do to sit on the Hulk," Bucky said. "I really need to get a better handle on my temper. Only I'm having a hard time getting this to work with anyone and -- hey, wait, you and I connected pretty well. Pair up with me?"
"I wouldn't advise it," Bruce said.
"That's because you have no sense of adventure," Tony said with a sharp grin. He grabbed a chair and swung it around, straddling the back. "Will this work? 'Cause I like you, Bucky, but not enough to sit in your lap."
"That will do," Bruce said wearily. "Sit up straight, focus -- oh no, don't you dare." He pushed their hands apart, where Bucky was reaching for Tony's chest and Tony for Bucky's left arm. "You two already got yourselves in enough trouble doing that earlier. We're making this slow and simple, as much as it can be. So. Look down. Focus on your breathing for a minute. ... Eyes up now."
Phil watched them as he pulled assorted vegetables from the refrigerator for a stir-fry. Bucky and Tony held each other's gaze for five seconds, ten ... then abruptly pulled away at the same time.
Tony backed hastily away, his eyes too bright. "I, uh, forgot ... think I left something on in the lab," he said as he fled the room.
"I'll go after him and make sure he's all right," Betty said, following.
"Bucky, are you okay?" Bruce asked. "You look a little shaken."
"I dunno, I feel weird ... kind of dizzy," Bucky said.
"Put your feet flat on the floor. Elbows on your knees. Head down," Bruce said. He cupped a hand over the back of Bucky's head and guided him into position. "Take slow, deep breaths. Settle your energy. Think of being yourself and only yourself."
"Yeah, like that's gonna work," Bucky said bleakly.
"Steve, I need one clear memory to use as a focus for him, something from childhood," Bruce said.
"The bakery in our old neighborhood, the smell of pastrami and rye," Steve said instantly.
"Good," Bruce said. "Bucky, just concentrate on that. When you've got a clear focus on it, move forward to the here-and-now. Get yourself back in your own skin." Bucky stirred under his grasp. Bruce let go. "Stretch out a little." Bucky shifted, then slowly stood up. "Better now?" Bruce asked.
"Yeah, I think so," Bucky said. "Um ... what just happened?"
"You overloaded yourself with a meditative exercise that was too much for your current skill level. It's about like a beginner walking into a gym and picking up the heaviest dumbbell, after the coach told him not to," Bruce said. "Now, the next time I warn you about something, are you going to listen to me?"
"I'll think about it, maybe," Bucky said with a sheepish look.
"You had better think about it," Phil said. "Why don't you come over here where I can keep you out of trouble? Wash your hands first. Then scrub the vegetables for Bruce's stir-fry." He stationed Bucky at the sink. Simple tasks would help him readjust to everyday life.
Steve snickered. "I wondered how long it would take you to wind up with KP."
"What, and you never?" Bucky said as he worked.
"I learned very early not to tease Bruce, and especially, not to ignore his warnings," Steve said, no longer laughing.
"Thank you, Steve," Bruce said as he moved to the counter. He reached past Bucky to rinse his hands. "Bucky, if you still want to learn meditation, it's a good way to work on your self-control and on relaxation. Come down to the gym with me some time and I'll start you on the basics. The same goes for Tony, and I'll tell him that too, although I suspect that Betty already has."
"Yes, sir," Bucky said quietly.
Bruce accepted the vegetables as Bucky passed them to him. With quick strokes of a knife, Bruce chopped them and swept them into a skillet with a little clarified butter. He stirred them around with a spatula. "Here, keep this going for me, would you?" Bruce said to Phil.
Phil accepted the spatula and stirred the vegetables. Meanwhile Bruce assembled a collection of spices. The Avengers' kitchen had a wider selection of seasonings than most restaurants. It had to, given everyone's globe-trotting habits; they had learned recipes from many different cultures.
"Bucky, watch what I do," Bruce said. With deft motions, Bruce measured out each spice into a little wooden tray, creating a mosaic of colored piles. "This way, I can check to make sure that I remembered to include all the spices in the masala." He stirred them together with brisk strokes and then sprinkled the result over the vegetables.
That's a good memory trick for spices, Phil thought as he kept the spatula going. Fragrant steam rose from the shallow pan.
Next Bruce opened a jar of preserved lemons, removed one with a spoon, and started chopping it.
"Ooo! Lemon pickles!" Bucky exclaimed. He hovered around Bruce. "Can I have one? Please?"
"Sure, take all you want; we have plenty. I like these for the salt," Bruce said. He handed Bucky the jar and spoon. Then he scraped the chopped lemon inot the stir-fry, taking the spatula from Phil.
Bucky eagerly dug into the jar. "These are so good," he said, eyes squeezing closed with pleasure as he ate. There were two lemons left in the bottom of the jar. "Steve, do you want one?"
Steve shook his head. "No, thanks. You like sour things more than I do."
* * *
Notes:
Synchronized breathing is a common practice in partner yoga. Paying attention to breath can reveal many insights.
Eye contact is a vital aspect of body language. Looking down can indicate submission (as in Bruce) or guilt (as in Steve). In therapy or other intimate situations, the eyes reveal much about a person's thoughts and feelings. Think about how you make eye contact, and learn to look people in the eye.
Steve has a huge case of survivor guilt, primarily because he blames himself for letting Bucky fall off the train -- although other experiences may contribute as well, such as ordering the portal closed during the Battle of New York. This happens a lot to after war and other traumatic events. It particularly affects first responders, and in this context, superheroes count. There are ways of dealing with survivor guilt.
Kundalini mishaps are real, and like most hazards, variable in intensity. What happened with the Avengers is a pretty typical example of eager novices over-extending themselves; scary, but not too dangerous. Any time you work with energy, there's a chance of overload. Stay calm, understand how to deal with dizziness, how to get grounded and centered again. Notice that Bruce takes a more practical than ethereal approach. He's a kitchen-sink mystic because he comes at from the science side, not the spiritual side. So he focuses on physical steps, and explains things in pretty simple terms, but he still winds up in a lot of the same territory using similar techniques as the more esoteric folks do.
Everyday tasks can pose challenges for people with dementia, traumatic brain injury, PTSD or other mental issues. However, they are fulfilling and can help people get back into ordinary life. Sometimes meditation helps PTSD. Limiting choices, giving simple instructions, and working on easy tasks improve the chance of success.
Clarified butter, or ghee, resists burning and makes an ideal saute medium. And it's good for you too! Since discovering this, I have rarely used anything else.
Masala is a Hindi word for spice blend. There are bafat, garam, and many other types of masala. If you look at the pictures in those articles, you'll see examples of pouring spices next to each other in a dish. When you're combining half a dozen to a dozen of them, it really helps with tracking.
Preserved lemons come in many versions. Meyer lemons are especially popular for preserving. There are salty, sour, sweet, spicy, and all-flavors recipes. I found lots of sources recommending the use of preserved lemons in stir-fry, but no recipes, so here's a general description of how to make Indian stir-fry. Just add lemon pickles, I guess.
[To be continued in Part 56 ...]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Authority
Date: 2013-07-06 03:50 pm (UTC)"Yes, sir," Bucky said quietly.
I love this bit of conversation. 'Yes, sir,' is a very quiet but concrete acknowledgement of Bruce's authority in this area. I'm sure for Bucky it's a military habit, but for me, it goes straight back to childhood and reinforces the image I have of Bucky as a posturing teenager who is now contrite.
Re: Authority
Date: 2013-07-07 12:59 am (UTC)Re: Authority
Date: 2013-07-07 09:20 pm (UTC)Re: Authority
Date: 2013-07-07 08:37 pm (UTC)Yay! I'm glad it worked for you.
>> 'Yes, sir,' is a very quiet but concrete acknowledgement of Bruce's authority in this area. <<
Yes, precisely. It's also as much of a discreet apology as Bucky can spare the spoons for at the moment.
>> I'm sure for Bucky it's a military habit, <<
It is military, but not just a habit. Bucky does not "sir" people unless he means it. He's always going to be a rocker, shifting position in response to situational authority, but Bucky is learning the shape of Bruce's knowledge and reliability now. Bucky has a fine grasp of respective rank. It's just ... Bruce is really blurry in that field of vision. He has a tremendous amount of expertise but he rarely wields it with any confidence. That can make it difficult to gauge who has the higher authority in any given situation. It will take a little longer for Bucky to reach a firm conclusion about where Bruce's word is law, and there are going to be cases where Bucky claims the higher rank. But he's actively working the problem now.
*chuckle* Which means sooner or later Bruce is going to try his doormat routine only to crash into Bucky on the way down and not be able to get any further.
>> but for me, it goes straight back to childhood and reinforces the image I have of Bucky as a posturing teenager who is now contrite. <<
Very apt, yes.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-06 04:50 pm (UTC)So I guess now Bucky is going to listen and respect Bruce more. I loved the end of the chapter, with the cooking helping ground Bucky and everyone. Great chapter, thanks!
Yes...
Date: 2013-07-07 10:48 pm (UTC)They really are. The two of them heterodyne a lot, but in different ways than Tony and Bruce. Sometimes this amplification is a good thing. Other times, like this, it gets them into trouble.
>> So I guess now Bucky is going to listen and respect Bruce more. <<
Yes. It's not fully established yet, but Bucky is starting to get a sense of where Bruce's expertise lies.
>> I loved the end of the chapter, with the cooking helping ground Bucky and everyone. Great chapter, thanks! <<
Yay! I'm glad this worked for you. Food is very grounding for most people, and cooking is a basic activity that helps focus on everyday life. In a group where everyone has trauma issues to overcome, those are very useful anchors. It's why they're doing more and more of this stuff as the series progresses.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-06 07:42 pm (UTC)I have to confess, I'm not entirely sure of the whole yoga thing. Meditation does work, I'm not denying that, and I'm not ripping on anybody's beliefs, but a lot of it still seems a bit... esoteric... to me.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-06 10:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-07 05:57 am (UTC)Wow!
Date: 2013-07-07 06:01 am (UTC)How good was she? Did she make the situation work for her?
This could make for an interesting character.
Re: Wow!
Date: 2013-07-07 06:11 am (UTC)Re: Wow!
Date: 2013-07-07 07:07 pm (UTC)That's good to hear.
>> I don't know how consciously she might have played with being blind - I know I found it reassuring to have her service dog in the room, partly because the dog's slower breathing calmed my breathing. <<
Fascinating! A dual-purpose service dog.
Yes...
Date: 2013-07-07 05:58 am (UTC)I bet Bruce likes Ben Grimm's girlfriend. She's blind. Bruce dislikes being seen, and he knows not to be a dick about the way Ben looks. It's a good match.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-07 01:02 am (UTC)She wants to do stage performances, so she has a blanket request for me to model body language when we have time and space.
Thoughts
Date: 2013-07-07 05:47 am (UTC)Oh, that's a good point! That's often true.
>> and I can also focus on her voice better that way, which also reminds me to use my tone more than my hands while talking :) <<
Yes, it can take me a while to adapt to someone else's expressive mode. It's like remembering not to look away while talking to a deaf person who lip-reads.
>> She wants to do stage performances, so she has a blanket request for me to model body language when we have time and space.<<
Fascinating! That sounds like a useful exercise.
Yes...
Date: 2013-07-07 05:45 am (UTC)That's an excellent point!
>> I may meet someone's eyes without realizing it, but the intent isn't there, and holding anyone's gaze is right out, practically and intentionally. <<
It's like trying to see through a tinted window, I suspect. There's no way to connect. So if people are searching for that, it might throw them off; but if they dislike eye contact, it might attract them.
>> My body language is understandably off because of this, though I do try to look *at* people, or in their general direction, if we're talking. <<
Some blind people seem to be excellent at using their ears to orient on someone's voice or other sounds, and turn their head to follow that. It approximates what seeing people are accustomed to, although it's not identical.
>> This has never really bothered me, as I've never known just what I've missed out on, <<
Eye contact is a subtle connection between people, usually gentle, occasionally forceful. It is a little like feeling the heat from someone's body, or like touching hairs without touching skin. Tangible but not solid.
>> but I imagine it can be off putting to other people. Things that make you go hmmmm... <<
It varies, in my observation. *ponder* And it's probably more of an issue in cultures that consider eye contact a sign of respect or honesty, rather than finding it rude.
Re: Yes...
Date: 2013-07-10 07:31 pm (UTC)It also has me wondering how (if at all) it would work for JARVIS.
Re: Yes...
Date: 2013-07-10 08:03 pm (UTC)Well, I know enough about energy work to extrapolate possibilities, and I've met some variously neurovariant people. Likely possibilities include:
1) Nothing happens; a blank stare. The window is there, but nobody is looking out of it; the person is doing something else inside the house. I have seen not just autistic people but others 'zone' in this fashion, and it's like trying to meet the gaze of a blind person. There's no contact. It's not dangerous, but it can be unsettling.
2) Challenge stare. Some neurovariant people have a sharp, penetrating gaze. It's like being poked in a tender place; most people will pull away from that. I'm less sure if someone could get past that to read into the person; it's like a sword fight, trying to parry the blade aside to create an opening.
3) Measuring stare. Some neurovariant people have studied human interactions closely in hopes of 'passing' for neurotypical. They may take advantage of opportunities and search deeply for clues. This seems the most likely to produce the kind of intimate contact that yoga strives for. It may still go beyond the partner's comfort.
Other things might happen too. These are ones I have some experience with or at least tangent observations.
>> It also has me wondering how (if at all) it would work for JARVIS. <<
Oh, now that's an interesting question!
It depends on the person. Most of them keep trying to make 'eye contact' with JARVIS in some fashion: they'll look for a camera or a viewscreen, and failing that, look up toward the ceiling as if addressing God. Tony doesn't, but then Tony rarely makes eye contact with anyone; he routinely speaks to the air, or whatever he's holding in his hands at the time. He and JARVIS have a very intimate connection anyhow.
Bucky is a little different; he seems inclined toward a physical connection. That may be partly innate and partly because of what Tony keeps doing with him. It's not obvious yet, but Bucky likes to be touching something -- preferably with his left hand -- while he's talking with JARVIS. He'll hold onto a Starkpad or reach out for the wall, things like that. Bucky likes handling the holograms too.
JARVIS doesn't have a face. He doesn't have a body in the same way humans do; every building, every suit, every machine he inhabits is part of his physicality. So it gives him a very different perceptual reference, especially since his people are usually inside him. JARVIS can always see them, unless something blocks him, and he can perceive a lot more than just visual light and other ordinary human sensory input. I think the closest thing to soul-gazing for him would be observing people's brain waves; he always has a mote of attention on that, and if something interesting happens, it moves up his priority stack to active awareness. There are actually scenes about this already in the story.
So if I were trying to soul-gaze with JARVIS, I'd do one of two things:
1) Put it primarily on a metaphysical level. Go down to the yoga room, meditate, concentrate on being inside a living building, and use my brain waves as a carrier to search for his consciousness. Since I'm pretty good at touching human awareness this way, it would probably work for me and would certainly work for him.
2) Put it primarily on a physical level. Go to one of the labs where JARVIS has additional sensory equipment beyond the ambient stuff all over the tower, look at the cameras, touch the peripheral handling machinery. Or borrow one of the Iron Man suits; the HUD there is probably the closest eye-to-eye contact that JARVIS gets. It would make for a more concrete connection, more practical and less numinous.
Though if JARVIS were real, I'd probably avoid him. I'd worry that I might brush against him and accidentally injure or kill him, as has happened with a lot of technology. There are reasons why I don't change lightbulbs or touch other people's electronics. I'd regret the necessity, because AI is awesome, but it's hardly decent to put someone's safety at risk just to get my jollies.
Re: Yes...
Date: 2013-07-10 09:06 pm (UTC)Couldn't JARVIS probably withstand being touched, though? Considering what else he can withstand and how decentralized he seems to be.
(Oh, and I'm writing the crossover now.)
Re: Yes...
Date: 2013-07-10 11:23 pm (UTC)I would hope so, but I couldn't be certain. I've wiped out bigger things than a personal computer, just in this world and sometimes without touching them. On the upside, JARVIS is decentralized and has terrific firewalls, so any mishap would be more likely a minor injury than something serious. Though if I managed to knock him up, Pepper would kill us all.
>> (Oh, and I'm writing the crossover now.) <<
*happydance*
Re: Yes...
Date: 2023-08-11 04:30 am (UTC)Re: Yes...
Date: 2023-08-11 04:47 am (UTC)Absolutely true. A corded mouse may survive. I've never had a cordless one last as much as 2 weeks. >_<
So, if Iron Man has EMP insulation under the metal, that would add a great deal of safety. I'm not sure I'd want to risk shaking hands, but I'd be less worried about casually brushing against him.
>> Since JARVIS can withstand Thor, he probably has enough padding so you wouldn't immediately fry him, and you might be able to work something out<<
Point.
>> (stay on this area, don't touch\go near X sensor).<<
If I start blowing out lightbulbs without touching them, get the hell out of the way.
Re: Yes...
Date: 2023-08-11 06:03 pm (UTC)(This is why I keep cords around for anything but wifi. Like I said earlier, I can nerf myself around computers...but it's easier if there's plastic-wrapped cables transmitting the electrons.)
Re: Yes...
Date: 2023-08-12 09:17 am (UTC)That makes sense.
>> and I'm just guessing, but I think magic has a lot to do with electromagnetic radiation, given the effects on computers and how insulation is things like non-conductive materials.<<
Yes, there's a lot of overlap between magic and other types of energy. I tend to fry things that are electronic or mechanical.
>> (This is why I keep cords around for anything but wifi. Like I said earlier, I can nerf myself around computers...but it's easier if there's plastic-wrapped cables transmitting the electrons.) <<
Yeah, insulation helps.
Also...
Date: 2013-07-07 07:35 pm (UTC)>>I have to confess, I'm not entirely sure of the whole yoga thing. Meditation does work, I'm not denying that, and I'm not ripping on anybody's beliefs, but a lot of it still seems a bit... esoteric... to me.<<
Yoga is a complex practice with multiple aspects. First there is the physical portion dealing with motion and pose. This activates a secondary physical response of relaxation that involves slower breathing and heartbeat along with changes in brain waves and biochemistry. These aspects can be measured by objective methods, and can produce pretty spectacular results for some people.
Next there is the mental aspect. Relaxing the body helps relax the mind. Over time, meditation and relaxation can actually produce measurable changes in the brain itself. But most people just find that it's easier to think clearly, logically, and compassionately. Those are more subjective changes.
The spiritual and mystical aspects are the most ephemeral. They are not readily measured with science. However, if one has a grasp of those fields, there are signs that indicate progress, so they can be tracked in some regards. These parts of yoga have to do with putting the inner self in order, managing personal energy, and connecting to a higher power. Better results happen when people do this deliberately. However, even doing the physical part tends to yield some improvements here.
Now, Bruce is a scientist, so he's coming at yoga from that angle. He's an empiricist and he's chucked his natural brakes in favor of trying anything and everything that might allow him to control the Hulk (which is ... variable in terms of how healthy a coping mechanism that is). He knows that yoga works; he concentrates on the parts of it that he understands.
So Bruce focuses first on the physical and then on the biochemical and bioelectrical aspects. Those he's great at manipulating; they're familiar territory for him. He can just about touch the mental aspects; those are his goals. He's heard about the spiritual aspects, which he tolerates only because they're part of something he needs; that's not really his training or interest. He thinks the mystical aspects are bunk. They aren't, and he's using them indirectly, but this is far more Hulk's area than Bruce's area.
Much the same is true of yoga in our world. Anyone can use it. What you get out of it depends on what you put into it and why you're doing it. All the aspects overlap but you can choose your focus. Some people do it for exercise and get a lot of that plus a little mental/spiritual growth. Some people focus mainly on the esoteric stuff and get a lot of that, with a little extra flexibility and muscle tone. And you don't have to "believe" any of it for it to work, although some parts do work better if you focus on them consciously.
There are later scenes in this story that go into the yoga in more detail.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-06 10:55 pm (UTC)I swear, the moment Tony showed up I started talking to the screen: "No, Tony. Tony, no, this is not going to end well." Doesn't he remember what just happened with the arm and the reactor and pushing too hard too fast? I'm interested in what Betty will say to him.
Poor Bucky, he was just as thrown as Tony was, and then got a tag-team scolding from Phil and Bruce. A totally deserved scolding, but still.
(The information about eye contact was useful, thank you! For me, it's definitely a social anxiety/too much stimulation issue--interacting with people is hard, yo. I've pretty much taught myself to look at people's eyebrows instead.)
Meg
Thank you!
Date: 2013-07-06 11:16 pm (UTC)Actually no, Steve does NOT know that. It is true, but outside his awareness. He blames the hell out of himself for what happened on that train. That's liable to cause friction later.
>> Since Steve tends to be more stable than the rest of the team, I sometimes forget that he has his own trauma to deal with. <<
Steve is one of the more functional members of the group, because he's tough and resilient, and he had Bucky as an example of healthy family and stable foundation. Steve still took some hard knocks, though, and they've left marks on him. He just tends not to show it until something belts him right in a sore spot. Then things like this happen.
>> I swear, the moment Tony showed up I started talking to the screen: "No, Tony. Tony, no, this is not going to end well." <<
*laugh* I love that the characterization worked that well.
>> Doesn't he remember what just happened with the arm and the reactor and pushing too hard too fast? I'm interested in what Betty will say to him. <<
Tony remembers, he just doesn't have a very good set of brakes. He's actually getting better at that, but it's a slow process.
>> Poor Bucky, he was just as thrown as Tony was, and then got a tag-team scolding from Phil and Bruce. A totally deserved scolding, but still. <<
They did wait until they were sure that Bucky was okay before laying into him. It's not safe to let someone do something that dumb and get away without a scolding. But the natural consequences pretty much eclipsed the need for further penalty.
>> (The information about eye contact was useful, thank you! <<
You're welcome! I'm glad this helped.
>> For me, it's definitely a social anxiety/too much stimulation issue--interacting with people is hard, yo. I've pretty much taught myself to look at people's eyebrows instead.) <<
I think that applies to Bruce too. Much his reason for signalling "I'm harmless, don't hurt me" so often is social anxiety. He's terrified that people will try to harm him, because that's happened a lot in the past; and now he's also worried about Hulk coming out to protect him whenever that happens. Not a situation that leads to comfortable eye contact.
Overstimulation may apply to Hulk. He has problems with that, especially after a rough transformation. But he's also capable of staring people down in a way that Bruce really isn't.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-07-08 03:03 pm (UTC)I'm chuckling a bit at Tony and Bucky getting in over their heads with the yoga exercise. (Only because I have done something similar and remember the resulting disorientation and wicked headache quite well.) Ow.
Eye contact ugh. It always seems... downright rude, the way people want to stare and stare into one's eyes. But it is expected, so I need to learn at least how to fake it. Looking over someone's shoulder is my current favorite workaround, as direct eye contact always feels like a challenge one way or the other, even when it isn't.
Thoughts
Date: 2013-07-09 06:18 am (UTC)Glad I could help. It's wonderful stuff.
>> I'm chuckling a bit at Tony and Bucky getting in over their heads with the yoga exercise. (Only because I have done something similar and remember the resulting disorientation and wicked headache quite well.) Ow. <<
They were lucky to get away without the reaction headache, yes. I've seen plenty enough such incidents myself.
>> Eye contact ugh. It always seems... downright rude, the way people want to stare and stare into one's eyes. <<
It varies by culture, and in some, really is considered rude.
>> But it is expected, so I need to learn at least how to fake it. Looking over someone's shoulder is my current favorite workaround, as direct eye contact always feels like a challenge one way or the other, even when it isn't. <<
Those are good tricks.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-08-12 02:05 pm (UTC)I hope Tony is okay...
Thoughts
Date: 2013-08-13 07:05 am (UTC)So do I. Bruce is so diffident most of the time, but he really does know what he's doing.
>> Tony was right on the Helicarrier--he needs to strut more. <<
Yea, verily. The problem is that people react badly when Bruce does that: either ignoring him, or attacking him. That has pushed his fawn response past even his fight and flight responses. It's only among the Avengers that people are really starting to listen to Bruce.
>> I hope Tony is okay... <<
More or less. He's not injured, but he is rattled. This is what happens when people ignore Bruce: things tend to go wrong.
At least this time it didn't involve the Helicarrier nearly falling from the sky.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2013-08-13 11:47 am (UTC)Re: Thoughts
Date: 2013-08-16 11:20 pm (UTC)