Nonsexual Intimacies (Part 2 of 5)
Oct. 25th, 2011 01:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis is the second part of a series on nonsexual intimacies that I'm posting for Asexual Awareness Week. Read Part 1, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5.
Whereas sex creates a physical basis for intimacy, other actions can create an emotional and psychological basis. Some of these typically appear near the beginning of a relationship, to deepen it, while others appear later to demonstrate how close the two people have already come. Emotional and psychological connections are particularly helpful for restoring a damaged relationship.
Sharing secrets. This especially applies to talking about personal issues that aren't widely known. An exchange of secrets is a common ritual between "best friends" among girls and women, but appears elsewhere as well. Some things are only discussed among people with a common reference; veterans may be more comfortable discussing war memories with each other than civilians.
Ordering for someone in a restaurant. Acquiring food, without asking the other person what to get, shows a knowledge of their needs and desires. Providing food is also a gesture of support and sustenance.
Providing moral support at a major event. Helping someone get through a funeral, a trial, or other intense but not crisis situation is usually performed by a very dear friend. This is a situation where lovers or family members may be too close to the matter to be much use.
Crying on someone. When you cry, you tend to let your guard down. Most of the people close to you will see you cry at some point, so that can be a milestone in a relationship. Actually crying on someone, letting them hold you, is even more intimate.
Serving in a primary role for someone during a wedding. This includes the best man or maid of honor at a wedding, or stand-in for absent parents, etc. as well as the traditional family roles. One aspect of intimacy is sharing each other's lives, including ceremonies and transitions.
Comforting someone after a bad breakup. Moments of great vulnerability can bring people closer. While this role sometimes falls to family, breakup repair more often goes to a woman's female friends or a man's male friends.
Gazing into each other's eyes. Sustained eye contact is one of the best ways to make a conscious connection between people, hence the saying, "The eyes are the windows of the soul." It happens most often between lovers, or parent and child, but can be used for any kind of partner bonding.
Listening to someone's heartbeat or breathing. Close body contact, enough to carry soft personal sounds, tends to be comforting as well as connecting, as it touches on positive childhood memories for most people. It is shared between parent and child, sometimes between siblings, and later between lovers. Tight nonsexual partners may also do this.
Emotional & Psychological Closeness
Whereas sex creates a physical basis for intimacy, other actions can create an emotional and psychological basis. Some of these typically appear near the beginning of a relationship, to deepen it, while others appear later to demonstrate how close the two people have already come. Emotional and psychological connections are particularly helpful for restoring a damaged relationship.
Sharing secrets. This especially applies to talking about personal issues that aren't widely known. An exchange of secrets is a common ritual between "best friends" among girls and women, but appears elsewhere as well. Some things are only discussed among people with a common reference; veterans may be more comfortable discussing war memories with each other than civilians.
Ordering for someone in a restaurant. Acquiring food, without asking the other person what to get, shows a knowledge of their needs and desires. Providing food is also a gesture of support and sustenance.
Providing moral support at a major event. Helping someone get through a funeral, a trial, or other intense but not crisis situation is usually performed by a very dear friend. This is a situation where lovers or family members may be too close to the matter to be much use.
Crying on someone. When you cry, you tend to let your guard down. Most of the people close to you will see you cry at some point, so that can be a milestone in a relationship. Actually crying on someone, letting them hold you, is even more intimate.
Serving in a primary role for someone during a wedding. This includes the best man or maid of honor at a wedding, or stand-in for absent parents, etc. as well as the traditional family roles. One aspect of intimacy is sharing each other's lives, including ceremonies and transitions.
Comforting someone after a bad breakup. Moments of great vulnerability can bring people closer. While this role sometimes falls to family, breakup repair more often goes to a woman's female friends or a man's male friends.
Gazing into each other's eyes. Sustained eye contact is one of the best ways to make a conscious connection between people, hence the saying, "The eyes are the windows of the soul." It happens most often between lovers, or parent and child, but can be used for any kind of partner bonding.
Listening to someone's heartbeat or breathing. Close body contact, enough to carry soft personal sounds, tends to be comforting as well as connecting, as it touches on positive childhood memories for most people. It is shared between parent and child, sometimes between siblings, and later between lovers. Tight nonsexual partners may also do this.
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(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-26 01:21 am (UTC)Also would it be okay for me to tweet a link to this?
Yes...
Date: 2011-10-26 01:57 am (UTC)http://ysabetwordsmith.dreamwidth.org/2036863.html
By all means, please tweet! Signal boost is always welcome.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-26 12:42 am (UTC)There's one particular friendship I'm thinking of that's felt more intimate than any romantic relationship I've ever been in, and about half of this list are big parts of why that is.
Had another similar experience on a smaller scale after I told a veteran friend about what it was like to be with my stepdad when he died. After that conversation, he opened up a lot more about stuff he'd been through over in Iraq. Neither of us managed to be terribly articulate during that conversation, but it still created a connection between us that's like nothing else I've ever known.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-10-26 01:03 am (UTC)I'm glad to hear that.
>> I have trouble with physical contact, so much of the first list didn't hit home, but there are a bunch of things on here that I love to see.<<
The different categories have really different items in them. They span physical, emotional, psychological, and other areas of connection. I think that's important to remember.
>>There's one particular friendship I'm thinking of that's felt more intimate than any romantic relationship I've ever been in, and about half of this list are big parts of why that is.<<
Sooth. Sometimes a friendship is a primary relationship. I think you'll find more points that you recognize in later installments this week.
>>Had another similar experience on a smaller scale after I told a veteran friend about what it was like to be with my stepdad when he died. After that conversation, he opened up a lot more about stuff he'd been through over in Iraq. <<
Common ground is what you make of it, wherever you find it. I've startled a number of veterans with some of my stances on issues, or awarenesses of different concepts. It can make for interesting conversations.
>>Neither of us managed to be terribly articulate during that conversation, but it still created a connection between us that's like nothing else I've ever known.<<
Some things are said without being spoken.
If you haven't already seen it, one of the stories that
http://kajones-writing.livejournal.com/37323.html
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-29 08:46 am (UTC)(Or conversely, realising that the target is not the kind of person who'd like, say, having everyone pretend they fotgot their birthday until they spring a surprise party.)
This is a great series. :)
Yes...
Date: 2011-10-29 07:48 pm (UTC)Yes...
Date: 2011-10-31 03:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-11-24 08:58 pm (UTC)I don't mean to offend, I am simply confused.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-11-24 09:09 pm (UTC)For adult asexuals forming a primary relationship, these types of nonsexual intimacy are likely to form a prevailing mode of bonding, whereas in a sexual relationship they're usually secondary to sex as a bonding mode. Certain other types of relationship are nonsexual in nature but may create extremely close bonds between sexual people -- serving in the same military unit, for instance. So the significance of the activity, as well as the type of relationship, can vary.
Considering the marriage example in particular: the main roles traditionally belong to relatives or close friends of the bride and groom. An asexual person with a tight nonromantic relationship to a sexual person might well serve as best man or maid of honor when their sexual friend gets married. Bear in mind, though, that not all marriages are exclusive; it's perfectly possible for a sexual couple and their asexual third to marry, according to various religions. The fact that the American government only allows one man/one woman marriages (and grudgingly, same-sex marriages in some areas) doesn't prevent it from happening, just leaves it outside of legal recognition. But getting married TO someone is a different type of intimacy than propping them up while they marry someone else.
Does this help to clarify?
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2011-11-27 04:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-01-07 05:04 pm (UTC)Reading to someone can be quite intimate, too, because it's something normally done only for small children or the infirm.
Or drawing someone. (Not necessarily naked. Simply because of the prolonged close scrutiny and the way the artist's general view of the model is bared.)
Yes...
Date: 2012-01-09 05:42 am (UTC)Those are good questions about when and how to change what you're doing.
>>Reading to someone can be quite intimate, too, because it's something normally done only for small children or the infirm. <<
Sometimes courting couples do it, and some families have a tradition of reading certain things on special occasions. Those are intimate examples also.
>>Or drawing someone. (Not necessarily naked. Simply because of the prolonged close scrutiny and the way the artist's general view of the model is bared.)<<
Some cultures believe that drawing someone captures a piece of their spirit.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-09 07:46 pm (UTC)Well...
Date: 2013-02-09 08:05 pm (UTC)A conservative character in a sudden dilemma with a very new relationship might think of doing something ("Jane fell asleep in her chair. Should I take off her glasses? Eh, better not, I hardly know her and she might freak.") but ultimately decide to do nothing.
A forethoughtful character may actually have discussed this ahead of time. ("Wow, that's quite a story. Do you pass out on friends' couches often? Because if you do, I'd like to know how to respond to that.")
A considerate character will usually try to figure out what the other person would want ("Bob doesn't like being touched ... I'll just stay here and stand guard instead of trying to shake him awake.") or what they themselves would want ("I hate people watching me sleep, so I'll back quietly out of the room and put a coat hanger on the door so nobody walks in on Bob.") and extrapolate actions from there.
A creepy character might actively take advantage of the situation, for instance, opening a few more buttons than strictly necessary in case of overheating. ("Heh, it's not like she'll know who opened her blouse. Nice knockers.")
It's the author's job to clue the status of the relationship and the active character's thought process, when describing a scene. The same objective action can have totally different subjective qualities, depending on why and how the active character does it and how the inactive character is going to feel about it later. It's the context that distinguishes between a caring act, a questionable one, and a downright abusive one. That all comes down to responsible management of boundaries, and part of life is learning to navigate boundaries when full information or discussion may not always be available.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-09 08:21 pm (UTC)It was "ordering for someone in a restaurant" that prompted my comment. That could be a power play, for instance, especially if the person being ordered for was in a worse position to assert xyr preferences than the character doing the ordering. It could also be done by someone who made an honest mistake about what the character being ordered for wanted or could eat-- for instance, ordering something the character is allergic to.
There are so many ways I could write about nonsexual intimacy in my fandoms...
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-09 10:14 pm (UTC)It's on the list of things that an abusive spouse does, yes. In that case it's designed to exert control.
It's also something that parents may do for children, or spouses or friends may do in a healthy relationship. In that case, it relies on knowing the person well enough to pick the right thing, or at least, a right thing. My partner and I can pick up candy bars for each other because we know some of each other's favorites, or pick something off a restaurant menu.
>> It could also be done by someone who made an honest mistake about what the character being ordered for wanted or could eat-- for instance, ordering something the character is allergic to.<<
That's good for some hurt/comfort action. Or mistake/grovel.
When I'm writing, I tend to highlight the character actions that relate most closely to what's going on in the story, as a way of revealing important points of characterization. Ordering for someone in a restaurant is, as you pointed out, a lot more intimate than most people realize. It's not something a lot of characters would do, and probably not with more than one or a few closest people. So it necessarily reveals a lot.
One pair I might bring this out with is Sherlock/John. Either could order for the other: Sherlock because he notices everything, and John because he's a doctor and Sherlock's flatmate and keeps trying to nudge Sherlock toward healthier behavior.
There's actually a more subtle riff on this in "When the Moon Hits Your Eye," where it's Angelo making the selections: because they keep eating at his restaurant, so he brings out things specifically intended to entice Sherlock into eating. It is kind of nosy, but it's inside Angelo's professional expertise and he obviously cares enough about Sherlock to have made some astute observations. A random person couldn't have pulled it off.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 12:43 am (UTC)I'm not familiar with that fandom, but I enjoyed the story nonetheless.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 01:16 am (UTC)There are many such lists; most crisis centers will have one. They're framed differently; some will give general terms and some will give examples. I've got some hardcopies from my college days but there are plenty online. Here are some examples:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm
http://www.turningpointservices.org/Domestic%20Violence%20-%20Warning%20Signs.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randy-susan-meyers/warning-signs-of-domestic_b_671321.html
http://www.health-first.org/hospitals_services/hrmc/trauma/warning_signs.cfm
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/warning_signs.html
Oh, and don't ever just mail one of those to someone you think might be in an abusive relationship. That's a bit too much of a clue-by-four.
I couldn't find one that mentioned restaurants in particular, but deciding what someone eats and speaking for them can both be examples of "controlling behavior."
These are mostly outside descriptions. In my women's studies classes we had some lists that were "things he did to me." Picked the restaurant and the food. Always opened the door. Would hang up the phone if someone called he didn't want me to talk to. Stuff like that.
I frequently watch my villains for abusive behavior and highlight it.
>>I'm not familiar with that fandom, but I enjoyed the story nonetheless.<<
Yay! I'm happy to hear that.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 02:38 am (UTC)Why shouldn't you mail one of those to someone in an abusive relationship?
When you highlight abusive behavior in villains, are you trying to help people realize that it's a warning sign?
And what do you study in women's studies?
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 04:18 am (UTC)*bow, flourish* Happy to be of service.
>>Why shouldn't you mail one of those to someone in an abusive relationship?<<
It can be really, really upsetting. That means they should have someone there for support. Random arrival of potentially life-wrecking information is not optimum. It's better done in person, or if that's impractical, try to arrange some kind of backup.
>>When you highlight abusive behavior in villains, are you trying to help people realize that it's a warning sign?<<
The first reason for including that is usually because I want to mark a given character as a villain. A secondary reason, yes, is hoping that if readers see a real person doing what a villain did in a story, they may recognize that as a Bad Sign.
I did some highlighting of General Ross as being abusive, manipulative, and overcontrolling not just of Bruce but also of Betty in "Safe Keeping." The peak of that motif is in Part 3 and Part 4, with a brief appearance of Ross in Part 7.
>>And what do you study in women's studies?<<
Women's contributions to history and literature. Conceptualization of sex, gender, and sexuality. Sexually inspired oppression. Violence against women, and how to discourage it, and how to clean up after it.
Back when I minored in this, it was just Women's Studies, but I treated it as Gender Studies, which is how it eventually broadened out. So I also studied the male side of the equation, and other sexes and genders besides male and female.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 04:46 am (UTC)That seems like an interesting story, so far. On the other hand, I think their attempts to empathize with Bruce becoming the Hulk are a bit misguided and trivializing.
Thank you for explaining that.
Re: Well...
Date: 2013-02-10 05:03 am (UTC)Listening, hand-holding, confirmation of observations, discussion of possible plans of action and which resources might be useful, standing up to the abuser if s/he shows up, calling the police ... it varies. Most people feel better just not being alone.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-29 01:17 am (UTC)For instance, I'm going to be one of the bridal attendants in my wife's wedding in a couple months.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-10-29 01:23 am (UTC)Like, that can be really sweet, especially if it has been previously discussed whether it's okay to do that.
But, it can also be really controlling and creepy. Or somewhat infantalizing and dismissive. Which, in a work of fiction, can be interesting to play with of course. As can any dynamic where you show that somebody is creepy by having them do intimate things inappropriately.
But I feel like, of the things listed here, this one is especially problematic since it's something that a lot of people are actually never okay with a partner doing.
Yes...
Date: 2013-10-29 01:28 am (UTC)Well...
Date: 2013-10-29 01:35 am (UTC)Another boundary map is the division between things that are always, sometimes, or never okay. This also varies among people.
Trespassing boundaries against someone's will isn't intimacy, it's violation. It doesn't matter so much what the action is, as whether the people involved are all comfortable with it. If one person is crossing a line that the other person doesn't want them to cross, that's not okay -- even if it's something as casual as a handshake. If everyone is okay with it, then it's fine, even if it involves really deep contact.
>> As can any dynamic where you show that somebody is creepy by having them do intimate things inappropriately. <<
Yes. One of my favorite examples of such creepiness was in "Heroes" where they had a villain with healing powers. He just hauled off and erased someone's disability, not only without asking, but without even mentioning it. Went by in a split second, so a lot of viewers wouldn't even realize how violating it was. But to someone familiar with magical ethics and disability rights, ZOMGWTFBBQ somebody please kill this creep now. I honestly found him creepier than the serial killer.
Social pictures
Date: 2016-10-30 05:59 am (UTC)http://gay.adultgalls.com/?pg-pranav
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(no subject)
Date: 2019-08-24 11:34 am (UTC)Someone was helpfully talking about a spreadsheet for ace friendly fanfic.
However their idea of ace friendly did not meet mine.
I can agree mouth kissing is romance but I like nonsexual romance. I want more fics with nonsexual romances and complicated, boundary blurring affection that isn't penetrative or oral sex.
Their ace friendly defintion did not even allow for hand holding.
When did hand holding become sexual?! Or even romantic! Something we do with young children to keep them safe, that depending on the culture and the individual can be done with family and friends of any gender?
On the one hand we've got the "it's only a real relationship if they're screwing" (thanks assholes attacking Neil Gaiman) and on the other we've got some asexuals painting us all as unable to stand reading about two adults holding hands -alongside other rather puritan attitudes. (That's a longer and more personal rant about never feeling connected to other aces who seem to fall in two camps, neither of which I identity with.)
So again, this sort of post is invaluable for promoting nonsexual intimacy and trying to show the variety of ways people can iteract.
Thoughts
Date: 2019-08-25 09:09 am (UTC)Yay!
>> (the tags weren't specific enough to narrow it down <<
Sorry about that.
>> but I found it via google!) because I wanted to see if you included handholding and here you have things like sustained eye contact and listening to heartbeats.<<
Yep. I tried to list a wide range of things that are intimate but not carnal. Most people don't think about these. But I write a lot of them, and my fans buy a lot of them. It's a very popular category.
>> Someone was helpfully talking about a spreadsheet for ace friendly fanfic.<<
Not a bad idea, but ...
>> However their idea of ace friendly did not meet mine.<<
... people's ideas diverge a lot.
>> I can agree mouth kissing is romance but I like nonsexual romance. I want more fics with nonsexual romances and complicated, boundary blurring affection that isn't penetrative or oral sex.<<
Mouth kissing is romantic and/or sexual if people think of it that way. It doesn't have to be. It's a very cultural, very personal thing.
In many parts of Africa, breasts are for babies and men have no interest in them. Women walk around topless and nobody cares.
In Japan, the back of the neck is sexy and touching it is intimate. No neck-showing or neck-petting in Japanese acefic!
>>Their ace friendly defintion did not even allow for hand holding.<<
0_o
I have a very wide range of aces both in readers/sponsors and in characters. Some are up for anything but crotch processes. Others are much more reserved. It's all good.
>> When did hand holding become sexual?! Or even romantic! Something we do with young children to keep them safe, that depending on the culture and the individual can be done with family and friends of any gender?<<
I generally use child interactions as a benchmark. Anything that healthy adults do with children may be considered nonsexual.
>> On the one hand we've got the "it's only a real relationship if they're screwing" (thanks assholes attacking Neil Gaiman) <<
Some people have very limited ideas about sex, love, and relationships.
>> and on the other we've got some asexuals painting us all as unable to stand reading about two adults holding hands -alongside other rather puritan attitudes. <<
Some aces enjoy reading about sex just fine, they simply don't wish to do it themselves.
>> (That's a longer and more personal rant about never feeling connected to other aces who seem to fall in two camps, neither of which I identity with.) <<
Bummer. :( That sounds very lonely.
>> So again, this sort of post is invaluable for promoting nonsexual intimacy and trying to show the variety of ways people can iteract. <<
*bow, flourish* Happy to be of assistance.
I also recommend
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2019-08-25 09:53 am (UTC)I'll check out feathering the nest, thank you so much for the rec :)
(no subject)
Date: 2023-07-04 08:49 pm (UTC)This one is my preferred and favorite form of intimacy. I had never considered it intimacy before this post. I am a particular eater. I have two people in my life I would trust implicitly to order on my behalf and pick something I would enjoy. One who is very aware how I do not like "follow up questions" when it comes to ordering. I freaking love eating out with them because they will remind me "the waiter is going to ask X, Y, and Z."
As for why I do not like follow up questions - there's already a struggle to remember "Here is exactly what I decided I wanted to eat" and follow up questions really throw me off of what I want to order and run the risk of me messing up my own order by ordering "wrong." The AuHD struggle is real when it comes to ordering. I have my favorite subway sandwich order written down in the notes on my phone in the exact order follow up questions will occur after I messed up my own order a few times.