Poem: "Rainbow Hills"
May. 23rd, 2021 10:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis poem is spillover from the April 20, 2021 Bonus Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from readera and Anonymous. It also fills the "taboo subjects" square in my 4-4-21 "Aspects" card for the Genderplay Bingo fest. This poem belongs to the Daughters of the Apocalypse series.
Warning: This poem contains intense and controversial topics. Highlight to read the warnings, some of which are spoilers. It includes the apocalypse, the Grunge, mass casualties, adults dying and leaving children and teens to fend for themselves, abandonment of an intersex infant, varying levels of respect for nonbinary identities, normalization of lesbian relationships, reference to pestering lesbians to have procreative sex, gay men viewed as selfish by outsiders, and other challenges. On the whole, though, Rainbow Hills is a successful commune and a good place for QUILTBAG people. If these are sensitive issues for you, please consider your tastes and headspace before reading onward.
"Rainbow Hills"
[Fall Moon, 15 A.E.]
Before the End,
the whole Bay Area
was a queer playground.
Then the bombs fell,
and now Frisco was
little more than rubble.
Some survivors had
made it out, though,
and people noticed
that queers seemed
a bit more resistant to
the Grunge than straights.
In the Aftermath, there
were more enbeys than
there used to be, too.
At the southern edge
of the old metro where
San José petered out into
suburbs, a few survivors had
made it out carrying some
of the community's kids.
The adults only lasted
a few years, but that was
long enough for the oldest
to become teenagers and
take over raising the rest.
People had come and gone
over time, but they still had
the solid core of a commune
rambling between the edge
of town and what had once
been Henry Coe State Park.
They called it Rainbow Hills.
Jade, Opal, and Cinnabar were
all enbey or andey and all together.
Jade had some mixed parentage,
skilled in wilderness crafts and
survival skills. Ey liked to color
eir hair in bright patches when
they found anything safe to tint it.
Opal was fair and stocky; ey did
the leatherwork, including shoes.
Cinnabar was a talented tracker
and hunter; ey taught the others
about the wildlife in their area.
Agate was big and black, with
colorful dreadlocks down the left
and a tuft of nappy black beard.
Sie was their bodymod artist and
medic. Sie hoped to find both
a male and a female partner,
but so far had found nobody.
Onyx was Asian and younger
than most of the others, born
not long after the End. Ze
viewed close relationships
as a nuisance, but ze was
still their best scrounge.
Marsh was only ten, having
been dumped at the commune
as an infant, probably because
sie was intersex. Sie excelled
at foraging for edible plants
and also craft supplies.
Even though it was hard
to survive in the Aftermath,
it was easier together than alone,
and better here in Rainbow Hills
than in most other communes.
At least here, they were called
"enbey" or "andey," not "soso,"
or even worse, "whatsit."
They had friends, and
family if they wanted it.
Life was easier for
the lesbians, because
there were so many women
and so few men now that lots of
women had taken female lovers.
Still, some of them got tired of
invitations from the rare men,
or grandmothers urging them
to "just try it, dear, we need
all the babies we can get."
So they wound up here,
like Iris and Brittany, who
had been barely walking
when the End had come.
Both of them were woodworkers,
but Iris mostly used green wood for
basketmaking and other bentwork,
while Brittany used seasoned wood
for carving and building things.
It was hardest on the men
who loved other men.
That had become
even more of
a taboo subject
in the Aftermath
than it was Before.
Men loving men were
seen as selfish, since
there were so few men left.
Chester observed that
the critics should stop and
consider what "homosexual"
actually meant before whining
about them not doing their duty
to replenish the human race.
Neither he nor his husband Ashton
could perform with women, although
Ashton said some gay men could.
Chester was a scout and dog trainer,
who spent much of his time patrolling
the hills and valleys of their territory.
His current favorite dog was Toffee,
a terrier mix and a great varmint dog.
Ashton was also a scout, but more
of a hunter than Chester was.
They were two of the oldest left,
who had been tweens at the End,
and raised the younger children
after the adults had died.
After that, the rest of the kids
felt the men were entitled to be
a little selfish if they wanted to.
* * *
Notes:
Rainbow Hills
Rainbow Hills is a commune in Calla, Cadia. It lies outside the fringes of former San José along the edges of Henry Coe State Park.
In this setting, the alternative pronouns seem to break down as:
ey/em -- nonbinary gender, androgynous, or other sex/gender variants
sie/hir -- ambigender, intersex, or other variants spanning 2+ sex/genders
ze/zir -- agender, neuter, or other null-type sex/gender variants
Jade of Rainbow Hills -- Ey has copper skin, almond-shaped black eyes, and black hair cut at variable lengths with dyed patches. Eir ears have multiple piercings and ey has a septum ring too. Ey has tattoos on eir right arm. Ey is short and muscular. Jade is enbey, nonbinary. Eir heritage includes American, Chinese, Native American, and Turkish. Ey speaks English, Hand Talk, and a little Chinese. Ey was 4 years old at the End and is 19 in 15 A.E. Jade is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey excels at wilderness crafts and survival skills such as firestarting. Eir queerplatonic partners are Opal and Cinnabar.
Opal of Rainbow Hills -- Ey has tinted skin and blue eyes. Ey has dark blond hair that bleaches lighter in the sun, buzzed short on the right and hanging about ear-length on the left. Ey is stocky with a round-cheeked face. Opal is enbey, nonbinary. Eir heritage is American. Ey was 5 years old at the End and is 20 in 15 A.E. Opal is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey is a leatherworker and cobbler. Eir queerplatonic partners are Jade and Cinnabar.
ey
(Elverson, 1975)[68]
ey is laughing
I called em
eir eyes gleam
that is eirs
ey likes eirself
Opal blond and Jade dyed hair
Cinnabar -- Ey has fair skin, brown eyes, and shaggy auburn hair. Ey is tall and lanky. Eir heritage includes Greek, Irish, and American. Ey speaks English and a little Greek. Ey is andey, androgynous. Ey was 4 years old at the End and is 19 in 15 A.E. Cinnabar is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey is a talented tracker and hunter. Eir queerplatonic partners are Jade and Opal.
ey
(Elverson, 1975)[68]
ey is laughing
I called em
eir eyes gleam
that is eirs
ey likes eirself
Cinnabar with feathers
Cinnabar redhead and Jade dyed hair
Agate of Rainbow Hills -- Sie has brown skin and black eyes. Hir nappy black hair is half short but has long blue-and-mauve dreadlocks attached on the left side. Sie also has a short tuft of beard. Sie has a long face with many piercings. Sie identifies as ambigendered, both masculine and feminine. Hir heritage is African-American. Sie was 7 years old at the End and is 22 in 15 A.E. Agate is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Sie is a medic and a bodymod artist. Sie would like to find a male partner and a female partner, but so far has found nobody.
sie, hir
(Hyde, 2001)[77]
sie is laughing
I called hir
hir eyes gleam
that is hirs
sie likes hirself
Onyx of Rainbow Hills -- Ze has golden-pale skin, almond-shaped brown eyes, and short black hair. Ze is short and slim with pierced ears. Ze has tattoos over both arms and under zir collarbones. Onyx is aromantic-asexual, neuter/neutrois, and views close relationships as a nuisance. Zir heritage is Asian-American. Ze speaks Afta English. Ze was born shortly after the End and is 15 in 15 A.E. Onyx is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ze is a talented scrounge, good at finding usable items amidst the rubble.
ze zem zir zirs zirself
ze, zir
(anon., c. 2013)[80]
ze (zie, sie) is laughing
I called zir/zem
zir/zes eyes gleam
that is zirs/zes
ze (zie, sie) likes zirself/zemself
Marsh of Rainbow Hills -- Sie has tinted skin, brown eyes, and shaggy brown hair. Sie is intersex and was dumped at Rainbow Hills as an infant, being raised by the commune as a whole. Hir romantic-sexual orientation has not grown in yet. Hir heritage is Hispanic. Sie speaks Afta English. Sie is 10 years old in 15 A.E. Marsh is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Sie is a skilled forager of edible plants and craft supplies.
sie, hir
(Hyde, 2001)[77]
sie is laughing
I called hir
hir eyes gleam
that is hirs
sie likes hirself
Iris of Rainbow Hills -- She has tinted skin, brown eyes, and long brown hair. She is a lesbian. Her heritage is Hispanic. She speaks English and a little Spanish. She was 2 years old at the End and is 17 in 15 A.E. Iris is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. She is a woodworker, primarily green wood for basketmaking and other bentwork. She is the girlfriend of Brittany.
Bentwork is useful in basketmaking, cabinetmaking, and other crafts.
Brittany of Rainbow Hills -- She has pale skin, blue eyes, and long blonde hair. She is a lesbian. Her heritage is American. She was 1 year old at the End and is 16 in 15 A.E. Brittany is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. She is a woodworker, primarily seasoned wood for carving and building. She is the girlfriend of Iris.
Woodcarving is good for making furniture or shelters.
Brittany blonde and Iris brunette
Chester of Rainbow Hills -- He has tawny-fair skin that tans easily, brown eyes, and short chestnut hair with a mustache and beard. He is slim and muscular. He is homosexual and not functional with females. His heritage is mostly American with a little Hispanic and Asian. He speaks Before English. He was 12 at the End and is 27 in 15 A.E. Chester is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. He is a scout and a dog trainer. Currently his favorite dog is Toffee, a determined varmint dog who probably has some Airedale Terrier heritage, a versatile breed well suited to survival. Chester is the husband of Ashton. They mostly raised the younger children after the adults died.
The Airedale Terrier is among the best dogs for homestead or survival situations. All terrier breeds came from varmint hunters, and many retain strong instincts for hunting and digging.
Ashton of Rainbow Hills -- He has tawny-fair skin, hazel eyes, and short ash-brown hair. He is thin with wiry muscles. He is homosexual and not functional with females. His heritage is American. He was 11 at the End and is 26 in 15 A.E. Ashton is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. He is a scout and hunter. He is the husband of Chester. They mostly raised the younger children after the adults died.
Chester blue coat and Ashton green coat
* * *
See the maps, animals, and Grunge notes after "Laundry, Liturgy, and Women's Work."
These maps show California population, counties with seats, bioregions, and resources. Here you can see the California Bay Area with cities. This map shows Santa Clara parks with their amenities, and this one has a closer view of Henry Coe State Park.
San Francisco has long supported QUILTBAG culture.
Frisco -- short for San Fransisco. As it was among the most heavily bombed areas, few of its residents survived, and it is still unsafe to go there. It has effectively become a synonym for "hell."
San José lies in Santa Clara County, California. Just beyond the outskirts is Henry Coe State Park.
Andey -- a polite term for an androgynous person. From "androgynous."
Androgynous people have an ambiguous gender presentation that may mix aspects of masculine and feminine, but does not signal strongly either way. It is a type of nonbinary identity. Compare with ambigender, which clearly expresses both masculine and feminine aspects. Androgynous is more muted than ambigender.
Enbey -- a polite term for a nonbinary person. From the initials "N.B." for "nonbinary." The term "soso" is less polite, and "whatsit" is rude.
Nonbinary means the range of gender identities outside of the conventional masculine and feminine set. It covers a wide range of identities. Nonbinary people often face discrimination, but it can take slightly different forms than other QUILTBAG people face.
Soso -- a less-polite term for a nonbinary or androgynous person. From "so-so" meaning not strongly one way or the other. The polite term is "enbey" for nonbinary or "andey" for androgynous, "whatsit" is rude.
Whatsit -- a rude term for a nonbinary or androgynous person. From the Before term "whatsit" for an unknown or random object. The polite term is "enbey" for nonbinary or "andey" for androgynous, and a less-polite one is "soso."
Social acceptance of homosexuality varies widely across cultures. Often there is more hostility toward gay men than lesbian women. In this setting, the overwhelming gender imbalance encourages more women to take female partners, but encourages -- or occasionally forces -- men to service many women. People who are unwilling or unable to procreate may still get social pressure to do so, because of the population loss.
readera and Anonymous. It also fills the "taboo subjects" square in my 4-4-21 "Aspects" card for the Genderplay Bingo fest. This poem belongs to the Daughters of the Apocalypse series.Warning: This poem contains intense and controversial topics. Highlight to read the warnings, some of which are spoilers. It includes the apocalypse, the Grunge, mass casualties, adults dying and leaving children and teens to fend for themselves, abandonment of an intersex infant, varying levels of respect for nonbinary identities, normalization of lesbian relationships, reference to pestering lesbians to have procreative sex, gay men viewed as selfish by outsiders, and other challenges. On the whole, though, Rainbow Hills is a successful commune and a good place for QUILTBAG people. If these are sensitive issues for you, please consider your tastes and headspace before reading onward.
"Rainbow Hills"
[Fall Moon, 15 A.E.]
Before the End,
the whole Bay Area
was a queer playground.
Then the bombs fell,
and now Frisco was
little more than rubble.
Some survivors had
made it out, though,
and people noticed
that queers seemed
a bit more resistant to
the Grunge than straights.
In the Aftermath, there
were more enbeys than
there used to be, too.
At the southern edge
of the old metro where
San José petered out into
suburbs, a few survivors had
made it out carrying some
of the community's kids.
The adults only lasted
a few years, but that was
long enough for the oldest
to become teenagers and
take over raising the rest.
People had come and gone
over time, but they still had
the solid core of a commune
rambling between the edge
of town and what had once
been Henry Coe State Park.
They called it Rainbow Hills.
Jade, Opal, and Cinnabar were
all enbey or andey and all together.
Jade had some mixed parentage,
skilled in wilderness crafts and
survival skills. Ey liked to color
eir hair in bright patches when
they found anything safe to tint it.
Opal was fair and stocky; ey did
the leatherwork, including shoes.
Cinnabar was a talented tracker
and hunter; ey taught the others
about the wildlife in their area.
Agate was big and black, with
colorful dreadlocks down the left
and a tuft of nappy black beard.
Sie was their bodymod artist and
medic. Sie hoped to find both
a male and a female partner,
but so far had found nobody.
Onyx was Asian and younger
than most of the others, born
not long after the End. Ze
viewed close relationships
as a nuisance, but ze was
still their best scrounge.
Marsh was only ten, having
been dumped at the commune
as an infant, probably because
sie was intersex. Sie excelled
at foraging for edible plants
and also craft supplies.
Even though it was hard
to survive in the Aftermath,
it was easier together than alone,
and better here in Rainbow Hills
than in most other communes.
At least here, they were called
"enbey" or "andey," not "soso,"
or even worse, "whatsit."
They had friends, and
family if they wanted it.
Life was easier for
the lesbians, because
there were so many women
and so few men now that lots of
women had taken female lovers.
Still, some of them got tired of
invitations from the rare men,
or grandmothers urging them
to "just try it, dear, we need
all the babies we can get."
So they wound up here,
like Iris and Brittany, who
had been barely walking
when the End had come.
Both of them were woodworkers,
but Iris mostly used green wood for
basketmaking and other bentwork,
while Brittany used seasoned wood
for carving and building things.
It was hardest on the men
who loved other men.
That had become
even more of
a taboo subject
in the Aftermath
than it was Before.
Men loving men were
seen as selfish, since
there were so few men left.
Chester observed that
the critics should stop and
consider what "homosexual"
actually meant before whining
about them not doing their duty
to replenish the human race.
Neither he nor his husband Ashton
could perform with women, although
Ashton said some gay men could.
Chester was a scout and dog trainer,
who spent much of his time patrolling
the hills and valleys of their territory.
His current favorite dog was Toffee,
a terrier mix and a great varmint dog.
Ashton was also a scout, but more
of a hunter than Chester was.
They were two of the oldest left,
who had been tweens at the End,
and raised the younger children
after the adults had died.
After that, the rest of the kids
felt the men were entitled to be
a little selfish if they wanted to.
* * *
Notes:
Rainbow Hills
Rainbow Hills is a commune in Calla, Cadia. It lies outside the fringes of former San José along the edges of Henry Coe State Park.
In this setting, the alternative pronouns seem to break down as:
ey/em -- nonbinary gender, androgynous, or other sex/gender variants
sie/hir -- ambigender, intersex, or other variants spanning 2+ sex/genders
ze/zir -- agender, neuter, or other null-type sex/gender variants
Jade of Rainbow Hills -- Ey has copper skin, almond-shaped black eyes, and black hair cut at variable lengths with dyed patches. Eir ears have multiple piercings and ey has a septum ring too. Ey has tattoos on eir right arm. Ey is short and muscular. Jade is enbey, nonbinary. Eir heritage includes American, Chinese, Native American, and Turkish. Ey speaks English, Hand Talk, and a little Chinese. Ey was 4 years old at the End and is 19 in 15 A.E. Jade is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey excels at wilderness crafts and survival skills such as firestarting. Eir queerplatonic partners are Opal and Cinnabar.
Opal of Rainbow Hills -- Ey has tinted skin and blue eyes. Ey has dark blond hair that bleaches lighter in the sun, buzzed short on the right and hanging about ear-length on the left. Ey is stocky with a round-cheeked face. Opal is enbey, nonbinary. Eir heritage is American. Ey was 5 years old at the End and is 20 in 15 A.E. Opal is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey is a leatherworker and cobbler. Eir queerplatonic partners are Jade and Cinnabar.
ey
(Elverson, 1975)[68]
ey is laughing
I called em
eir eyes gleam
that is eirs
ey likes eirself
Opal blond and Jade dyed hair
Cinnabar -- Ey has fair skin, brown eyes, and shaggy auburn hair. Ey is tall and lanky. Eir heritage includes Greek, Irish, and American. Ey speaks English and a little Greek. Ey is andey, androgynous. Ey was 4 years old at the End and is 19 in 15 A.E. Cinnabar is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ey is a talented tracker and hunter. Eir queerplatonic partners are Jade and Opal.
ey
(Elverson, 1975)[68]
ey is laughing
I called em
eir eyes gleam
that is eirs
ey likes eirself
Cinnabar with feathers
Cinnabar redhead and Jade dyed hair
Agate of Rainbow Hills -- Sie has brown skin and black eyes. Hir nappy black hair is half short but has long blue-and-mauve dreadlocks attached on the left side. Sie also has a short tuft of beard. Sie has a long face with many piercings. Sie identifies as ambigendered, both masculine and feminine. Hir heritage is African-American. Sie was 7 years old at the End and is 22 in 15 A.E. Agate is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Sie is a medic and a bodymod artist. Sie would like to find a male partner and a female partner, but so far has found nobody.
sie, hir
(Hyde, 2001)[77]
sie is laughing
I called hir
hir eyes gleam
that is hirs
sie likes hirself
Onyx of Rainbow Hills -- Ze has golden-pale skin, almond-shaped brown eyes, and short black hair. Ze is short and slim with pierced ears. Ze has tattoos over both arms and under zir collarbones. Onyx is aromantic-asexual, neuter/neutrois, and views close relationships as a nuisance. Zir heritage is Asian-American. Ze speaks Afta English. Ze was born shortly after the End and is 15 in 15 A.E. Onyx is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Ze is a talented scrounge, good at finding usable items amidst the rubble.
ze zem zir zirs zirself
ze, zir
(anon., c. 2013)[80]
ze (zie, sie) is laughing
I called zir/zem
zir/zes eyes gleam
that is zirs/zes
ze (zie, sie) likes zirself/zemself
Marsh of Rainbow Hills -- Sie has tinted skin, brown eyes, and shaggy brown hair. Sie is intersex and was dumped at Rainbow Hills as an infant, being raised by the commune as a whole. Hir romantic-sexual orientation has not grown in yet. Hir heritage is Hispanic. Sie speaks Afta English. Sie is 10 years old in 15 A.E. Marsh is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. Sie is a skilled forager of edible plants and craft supplies.
sie, hir
(Hyde, 2001)[77]
sie is laughing
I called hir
hir eyes gleam
that is hirs
sie likes hirself
Iris of Rainbow Hills -- She has tinted skin, brown eyes, and long brown hair. She is a lesbian. Her heritage is Hispanic. She speaks English and a little Spanish. She was 2 years old at the End and is 17 in 15 A.E. Iris is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. She is a woodworker, primarily green wood for basketmaking and other bentwork. She is the girlfriend of Brittany.
Bentwork is useful in basketmaking, cabinetmaking, and other crafts.
Brittany of Rainbow Hills -- She has pale skin, blue eyes, and long blonde hair. She is a lesbian. Her heritage is American. She was 1 year old at the End and is 16 in 15 A.E. Brittany is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. She is a woodworker, primarily seasoned wood for carving and building. She is the girlfriend of Iris.
Woodcarving is good for making furniture or shelters.
Brittany blonde and Iris brunette
Chester of Rainbow Hills -- He has tawny-fair skin that tans easily, brown eyes, and short chestnut hair with a mustache and beard. He is slim and muscular. He is homosexual and not functional with females. His heritage is mostly American with a little Hispanic and Asian. He speaks Before English. He was 12 at the End and is 27 in 15 A.E. Chester is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. He is a scout and a dog trainer. Currently his favorite dog is Toffee, a determined varmint dog who probably has some Airedale Terrier heritage, a versatile breed well suited to survival. Chester is the husband of Ashton. They mostly raised the younger children after the adults died.
The Airedale Terrier is among the best dogs for homestead or survival situations. All terrier breeds came from varmint hunters, and many retain strong instincts for hunting and digging.
Ashton of Rainbow Hills -- He has tawny-fair skin, hazel eyes, and short ash-brown hair. He is thin with wiry muscles. He is homosexual and not functional with females. His heritage is American. He was 11 at the End and is 26 in 15 A.E. Ashton is a muney who lives in the commune of Rainbow Hills, Calla, Cadia. He is a scout and hunter. He is the husband of Chester. They mostly raised the younger children after the adults died.
Chester blue coat and Ashton green coat
* * *
See the maps, animals, and Grunge notes after "Laundry, Liturgy, and Women's Work."
These maps show California population, counties with seats, bioregions, and resources. Here you can see the California Bay Area with cities. This map shows Santa Clara parks with their amenities, and this one has a closer view of Henry Coe State Park.
San Francisco has long supported QUILTBAG culture.
Frisco -- short for San Fransisco. As it was among the most heavily bombed areas, few of its residents survived, and it is still unsafe to go there. It has effectively become a synonym for "hell."
San José lies in Santa Clara County, California. Just beyond the outskirts is Henry Coe State Park.
Andey -- a polite term for an androgynous person. From "androgynous."
Androgynous people have an ambiguous gender presentation that may mix aspects of masculine and feminine, but does not signal strongly either way. It is a type of nonbinary identity. Compare with ambigender, which clearly expresses both masculine and feminine aspects. Androgynous is more muted than ambigender.
Enbey -- a polite term for a nonbinary person. From the initials "N.B." for "nonbinary." The term "soso" is less polite, and "whatsit" is rude.
Nonbinary means the range of gender identities outside of the conventional masculine and feminine set. It covers a wide range of identities. Nonbinary people often face discrimination, but it can take slightly different forms than other QUILTBAG people face.
Soso -- a less-polite term for a nonbinary or androgynous person. From "so-so" meaning not strongly one way or the other. The polite term is "enbey" for nonbinary or "andey" for androgynous, "whatsit" is rude.
Whatsit -- a rude term for a nonbinary or androgynous person. From the Before term "whatsit" for an unknown or random object. The polite term is "enbey" for nonbinary or "andey" for androgynous, and a less-polite one is "soso."
Social acceptance of homosexuality varies widely across cultures. Often there is more hostility toward gay men than lesbian women. In this setting, the overwhelming gender imbalance encourages more women to take female partners, but encourages -- or occasionally forces -- men to service many women. People who are unwilling or unable to procreate may still get social pressure to do so, because of the population loss.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 10:53 am (UTC)The gals had fun in one bedroom, and the guys got it on in another. Someone ran a turkey baster from the guys to the gals when the time was right. It worked.
So if the guys *want* to help, they can do it. Forcing them to help is right out though.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 02:48 pm (UTC)In this setting, keeping kids alive is just as valuable as actually making more. I wouldn't be surprised if folk started pointing this out in increasingly sarcastic tones as the years go by.
Furthermore, while everyone's choices are their own, people continually feeling entitled to pester you about your gender presentation / sexuality / sex life etc gets annoying.
[Personally] I get nowhere near the level of hassle some people get - but one of the reasons I loved Fury Road is that the pretty women weren't just there to be oogled.
Keep your hands and nosiness to yourself folks, my sharing is different than your taking.
I wouldn't be surprised if outsiders pestering folks to make babies would make the whole thing a rather uncomftorable and slightly taboo topic in the community.
Of course, some people might decide "Screw this, I'm not discussing this with you," and refuse to deal with any of it if they get fed up enough with the pestering.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 02:51 pm (UTC)If they are the first folks to successfully harvest the city in another 15-20 years, that would get a /lot/ of attention.
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 05:38 pm (UTC)They have attracted some new members, plus Marsh got dumped there as a baby.
>> If they are the first folks to successfully harvest the city in another 15-20 years, that would get a /lot/ of attention. <<
They're already getting at least some things beyond the usual. I haven't seen anyone else with hair coloring -- most have other things to worry about. The location is quite good, between a large wilderness and the edge of a city.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 07:24 pm (UTC)Hair dye is a far older concept than most people would think - to be fair, a lot of the original concoctions were poisonous or came out weird, and I don't think folks started experimenting with non-human hair colors until recently. (There's reasons wigs were fairly popular - hmm, couldn't someone easily make hair inserts or extensions out of donated hair, instead of a full wig?)
...maybe a historian or SCAdian would know more?
Barring access to safe hair dye, I'll also suggest hair decorations - bird feathers come in many colors and are easy to scrounge, ribbon and fabric scraps could be used or easily manufactured with knowledge and access to materials, and things like hairclips/beads/combs could be decorated with stuff not safe for direct use on hair/skin.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 03:08 pm (UTC)As for midwives, they'll need them anyway. Not just for folks who decide to have kids but for female bodied folks who show already pregnant.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 03:23 pm (UTC)Maybe they'll get one like the nice nuns in Call the Midwife? Heck, a new order of midwife-nuns in tye-dye habits is a very amusing thought.
Come to think of it...ain't no rule that midwife-nuns must be women, or Christian. Nondenominational quasi-religious order of medics, healers and midwives with tye-dye uniforms? (Incidentally, is there a gender-neutral or gender-variant term for monk/nun?)
I would worry that an intersex condition might possibly complicate a pregnancy, depending on the exact condition and associated features, but I may be overthinking alot again.
...it would also be interesting if this settlement turned out to be a refuge for pregnant women (especially those who don't want to be mothers), orphans, and unwanted kids - kids could be adopted, and when adult, could stay or go as they choose.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 04:38 pm (UTC)Some intersex conditions make pregnancy impossible (wrong hormone balance or lacking necessary organs). Others make fathering a child impossible for the same reasons. Others will allow one or the other. It's unlikely that both would be possible in the same person (and if it did happen, they'd have to worry about self-impregnation).
Something Ysabet didn't mention but might be a possibility, if not with this group, then with others, is a fairly common sex/gender system. Found in a number of places around the world.
They have five categories:
male bodied, socially male
male bodied, socially female
female bodied, socially male
female bodied, socially female
either, mixed social presentation
That last tend to be shamans and the like.
But for the other four categories, your body type only matters when it comes to having kids. Otherwise you are treated the way you present.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 07:16 pm (UTC)I was more wondering the job title (monk/nun/?what?) instead of title (Brother/Sister/Sibling). For alternatives to 'sibling' I've seen 'sibs' and 'brosis' used in various fanfics.
There was another one where someone is described as "...your sister-brother," (by a new friend trying to be polite, despite unfamiliarity with the situation/culture) which gets a round of laughter and the explanation that the person is female but has taken a male social role, so 'sister' is the appropriate term - at least until she needs to pull a Sweet Polly Oliver to get military training from sexist jerks.
>>>Some intersex conditions make pregnancy impossible (wrong hormone balance or lacking necessary organs). Others make fathering a child impossible for the same reasons. Others will allow one or the other. It's unlikely that both would be possible in the same person (and if it did happen, they'd have to worry about self-impregnation).<<
Humans are incapable of true hermaphroditic self-fertilization, as the relevant organs can either develop into a fertile female set or a fertile male set but not both simultaneously, and we only have the one set. Intersex development is possible, but may or may not be fertile.
Parthenogenesis is held to be scientifically impossible in humans (though it does appear in various mythologies). And I will note that while science can induce cloning and similar, such tech would not be available in the post-apocalypse.
>>Something Ysabet didn't mention but might be a possibility, if not with this group, then with others, is a fairly common sex/gender system. Found in a number of places around the world.<<
Huh, our society seems to be moving in that direction. Possibly with a bit more of a gradient between the binary and non-binary genders.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 10:39 pm (UTC)Though acolyte is another possibility.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 11:23 pm (UTC)...I think the brosius therm was being used to informally describe something resembling a nunnery run by nonbinary hermaphroditic aliens. I suspect the formal terms were different.
And as always seems to happen they seemed to have gender binary gender expression and pronouns due to being written by a gender binary species. Boring xenoculture! [Rolls eyes.]
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-25 10:10 am (UTC)Sensible. The nongendered equivalent of monk/nun is cleric or clergy, sometimes clergyperson but that's a lot clunkier. Deacons can be of any gender and are ordained ministers.
>>Some intersex conditions make pregnancy impossible (wrong hormone balance or lacking necessary organs). Others make fathering a child impossible for the same reasons. Others will allow one or the other. It's unlikely that both would be possible in the same person (and if it did happen, they'd have to worry about self-impregnation).<<
Many, though not all, intersex people have low or no fertility. (This is a key reason for their higher resistance to the Grunge.) They often have ambiguous genitals that mix features of male and female anatomy. Some seem outwardly one sex but have the chromosomes of the opposite; several hormonal conditions cause such transpositions, and at least one of those is prone to switching at puberty. There are stories of functional hermaphrodites, but little or no documentation of them; and no documented cases of self-fertilization. Parthenogenesis in humans is also undocumented but multiple stories make it seem like a nonzero possibility. Noncopulatory pregnancies have been documented.
All of this is subject to change without notice in a population under extreme evolutionary pressure, some local bottlenecking, and widespread exposure to chemical weapons and other contaminants released in or around the End. There is absolutely no telling what will pop out of the Kitchen Junk Drawer when it's tossed around like that, and some extremely strange sexual dynamics are in there.
>> Something Ysabet didn't mention but might be a possibility, if not with this group, then with others, is a fairly common sex/gender system. Found in a number of places around the world.
They have five categories:
male bodied, socially male
male bodied, socially female
female bodied, socially male
female bodied, socially female
either, mixed social presentation
That last tend to be shamans and the like.<<
Various aspects of gender are touched upon in notes and the poems. The current term "two-spirit" spans a very wide range of sex/gender identities across Turtle Island. It is a literal summary of the pervasive belief that such people combine some part of masculine and feminine spirits, which are commonly considered to have different traits. (Compare this with the anima/animus in psychology.) Most tribes recognized at least 3 sex/genders (masculine, feminine, other) and many recognized something like brave-women (masculine women) and/or dress-men.
This one specifies six in Navajo. One reference mentioned at least 10 genders but did not specify them.
Given the growing numbers and styles of sex/gender variant people in the Aftermath, it is likely that acceptance of this diversity will likewise grow.
>>But for the other four categories, your body type only matters when it comes to having kids. Otherwise you are treated the way you present.<<
Prevailingly true. There are plenty of women who live as men, due to the shortage of men; but there are likely some men who live as women because they dislike the changing pressures put on men.
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-25 10:30 am (UTC)Possible.
>> Come to think of it...ain't no rule that midwife-nuns must be women, or Christian. Nondenominational quasi-religious order of medics, healers and midwives with tye-dye uniforms? <<
True in the Aftermath, and likely among hippies.
>> (Incidentally, is there a gender-neutral or gender-variant term for monk/nun?) <<
Cleric, also clergy or clergyperson but the latter is clunky and unlikely to survive. Bhante is a Buddhist title for both monks and nuns, easily used as a gender-neutral term for Buddhist clergy.
Some people take a different approach: the Knights Hospitaller made all their armey members knights and "Sir," regardless of sex/gender. They typically lean masculine but it's not required.
>> I would worry that an intersex condition might possibly complicate a pregnancy, depending on the exact condition and associated features, but I may be overthinking alot again.<<
Some intersex conditions diminish or eliminate reproduction, while others make it risky. There are a lot of those conditions already, and probably more in the Aftermath. Results may be idiosyncratic.
>> ...it would also be interesting if this settlement turned out to be a refuge for pregnant women (especially those who don't want to be mothers), orphans, and unwanted kids - kids could be adopted, and when adult, could stay or go as they choose.<<
Rainbow Hills seems to be more picking up unwanted infants or youth with notable differences in sex, gender, and/or orientation. Some other communities likely focus on pregnant women. It's an easy way to roll the dice for getting more viable babies in general and males in particular, but also just good for gaining useful women. If you have the resources to support them, that is, which is a sharp limitation in many After communities.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-25 03:26 pm (UTC)If my faith actually had monk/nun/cleric-or-acolyte as a separate thing, I imagine we'd be incorporating genderqueer folks by now, or at least discussing it.
As it stands, if you have a religious calling or wish to dedicate your life to service the tradition is that you can and should do so without separating yourself from the world.
There are precedents for if you have family, arraingements can be made by the community for needed suppourt due to an absence or hardship (travel, arrests, etc).
(My specific denomination doesn't have priest-or-equivalents, either.)
>>Cleric, also clergy or clergyperson but the latter is clunky and unlikely to survive. Bhante is a Buddhist title for both monks and nuns, easily used as a gender-neutral term for Buddhist clergy.<<
Cleric - a priest or religious leader, especially a Christian or Muslim one. (Oxford Languages)
Ha, so there is a catchall term! (I've occasionally explained priest / pastor / minister as 'Christian imam.') (Idle musing) And why must every Christian denomination have separate terms for their leaders anyway?
Clergy - the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church. (Oxford Languages)
Acolyte - a person assisting the celebrant in a religious service or procession / an assistant or follower.
Maybe clergy for the whole community, cleric for a full member and acolyte for a trainee? Unless they go with 'Junior / Trainee / Novice Cleric' or something. Trainee might be gender-modifiable as well.
Do they need a separate word for a trainee, or does it make sense to train students however but not take a title until / unless the person takes vows (or the Hippocratic Oath or whatever)?
Also, it looks like cleric can be gendered (clergyman / clergywoman / clergyperson) but that might become rather akward to use all the time.
Maybe they'll evolve to only be used to indicate preferred gender with introductions (as with Amatakka introductions), or to subtly make a point to rude people ("Its Ms. not Mrs.")?
So the introduction would be Clergyman Bob, Clergywoman Sue, and Clergyperson Jordan...but after, they'd all be Cleric Bob, Cleric Sue, and Cleric Jordan, unless someone needs to be reminded of manners.
I can imagine monk or nun being dropped, except when explaining to outsiders - the terms have a bit more cultural baggage and expectations than Cleric / Clergyperson.
>>...the Knights Hospitaller made all their armey members knights and "Sir," regardless of sex/gender.<<
I think the US military has a bewildering array of rules for She Is The King...
I guess it boils down to 'how much do the founding members want to be able to customize their gender and gender expression?'
>>Some intersex conditions diminish or eliminate reproduction, while others make it risky.<<
So in the short-term, it would be good to attract a very skilled birthing assistant.
...In the long term, they may get a reputation for /training/ the very skilled birthing assistants, a la Sector General. (Now I'm imagining someone nicknaming the clinic Sector General, out of a scrounged copy of the book, once the medical training starts ramping up...and the term sticks. LOL!)
>>Rainbow Hills seems to be more picking up unwanted infants or youth with notable differences in sex, gender, and/or orientation.<<
If they're between wilderness and a city and have access to luxuries like hair dye, does that mean they'll be a major trading hub someday? (That'd really increase contact with and adoption of compatible folks.)
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-26 04:51 am (UTC)Modern Paganism was supposed to be an experiential religion, which lasted for a few decades, but as it grew people quickly discovered that most folks are neither willing nor able to do that level of spiritual work and prefer to have clergy. Most branches of Paganism welcome all genders, although there are gender-specific branches (e.g. Dianic Wicca and the Faerie Faith).
>> As it stands, if you have a religious calling or wish to dedicate your life to service the tradition is that you can and should do so without separating yourself from the world. <<
I think all options should be open. I bought an article on Pagan Monks once. It was very interesting. If you frame it like that, not many people are attracted to it -- but there are a lot more who like the idea of living alone or with a partner in the woods, which is basically what a Pagan Monk would be.
>> There are precedents for if you have family, arraingements can be made by the community for needed suppourt due to an absence or hardship (travel, arrests, etc). <<
True.
>>And why must every Christian denomination have separate terms for their leaders anyway?<<
Some did it because they had different jobs or requirements, to distinguish those from others.
>>Maybe clergy for the whole community, cleric for a full member and acolyte for a trainee? Unless they go with 'Junior / Trainee / Novice Cleric' or something. Trainee might be gender-modifiable as well.
Do they need a separate word for a trainee, or does it make sense to train students however but not take a title until / unless the person takes vows (or the Hippocratic Oath or whatever)?<<
Customarily a novice takes temporary vows. Ordination makes the vows permanent.
>>Also, it looks like cleric can be gendered (clergyman / clergywoman / clergyperson) but that might become rather akward to use all the time.<<
True.
>>Maybe they'll evolve to only be used to indicate preferred gender with introductions (as with Amatakka introductions), or to subtly make a point to rude people ("Its Ms. not Mrs.")?<<
That may be.
>> So the introduction would be Clergyman Bob, Clergywoman Sue, and Clergyperson Jordan...but after, they'd all be Cleric Bob, Cleric Sue, and Cleric Jordan, unless someone needs to be reminded of manners.<<
Remember the distinction between jobs and titles. The latter run to Brother/Sister/Sibling and Father/Mother -- or in Afta more like Bruh/Sis/Sib and Dah/Mah/Pah.
>> I can imagine monk or nun being dropped, except when explaining to outsiders - the terms have a bit more cultural baggage and expectations than Cleric / Clergyperson. <<
They also specify the retiring type of clergy, as opposed to more integrated types, so it has some use. Some people say "monastic" as a nongendered term for that, but it's also the adjective, so kind of clunky.
>>I guess it boils down to 'how much do the founding members want to be able to customize their gender and gender expression?'<<
True, and that varies. While the culture is getting more complex, the language is radically simplifying in most ways. You won't find a list of 100 gender sets, which is not natural to any language and won't last long in English either. Afta will likely settle on a masculine, feminine, and nongendered set. The most I've seen is in Rainbow Hills which has masculine, feminine, and three others.
In this setting, the alternative pronouns seem to break down as:
ey/em -- nonbinary gender, androgynous, or other sex/gender variants
sie/hir -- ambigender, intersex, or other variants spanning 2+ sex/genders
ze/zir -- agender, neuter, or other null-type sex/gender variants
Ey/em is also the pronoun used for unknown or unspecified gender, and that will probably become the standard across most Afta speakers.
>>So in the short-term, it would be good to attract a very skilled birthing assistant.<<
That is true.
>>If they're between wilderness and a city and have access to luxuries like hair dye, does that mean they'll be a major trading hub someday? (That'd really increase contact with and adoption of compatible folks.)<<
They have a great position and a great scrounge, but they're not popular and don't seem to be pushing hard for trade like some other people. The Pueblos are pushing it for all they got.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-26 05:57 am (UTC)Civilizations tend towards specialization in terms of jobs.
We have been around for a couple hundred years by now, with varying levels of involvement in issues, degree of difference from the mainstream, restrictions on members* and making some (sometimes really not good) mistakes. And some groups do have clergy. But we're still muddling through with our 'heretical' DIY approach. [Makes silly face.]
*Fortunately we've been much more chill about the restrictions for the past 100 or so years.
>>I think all options should be open.<<
Eh, you do you in terms of religion or whatever else. I do however reserve the right to complain if your beliefs are used as an excuse to /hurt people/.
And I'll probably do a few mental aside glances at obvious examples of hypocrisy, but overall, policing other people's lives doesn't do any good to anybody.
So if someone's one true calling is to, say, go off and reforest a desolate wasteland 400 miles away from anywhere, well, go for it. Me being myself, I'll hope they'll be careful.
Basically, believe in whatever you want, but I'll complain if someone's letting their beliefs wander into my [or anyone else's] yard and make a mess, so to speak.
>>If you frame it like that, not many people are attracted to it...<<
As I see it, ideally, religious restrictions are not meant to be a restriction, but either a liberation or meaningful choice.
Or in other words you are not doing XYZ, because you choose something more valuable. And no-one chooses that for you, /you/ have to decide if it is the right choice for you.
If being a nun is a liberating choice, go for it. If being an atheist househusband is a liberating choice, go for it. If you choose vegetarianism, born-again Christianity, wearing a hijab, not looking at women, or anything else and it is /your/ choice that works for you ... go for it!
>>Remember the distinction between jobs and titles. The latter run to Brother/Sister/Sibling and Father/Mother -- or in Afta more like Bruh/Sis/Sib and Dah/Mah/Pah.<<
We are clerics. I am Brother/Bruh John, this is Sister/Sis Mary, and that is Sibling/Sib Jordan.
Works for me!
Why 'Pah' though - it sounds rather similar to 'Pa' which is gendered? Is it that trend of languages to converge different spellings or grammer rules? (I.e. formulae -> formulas?)
>>Ey/em is also the pronoun used for unknown or unspecified gender, and that will probably become the standard across most Afta speakers.<<
Matches they/them. I suppose we should be glad English pronouns don't specify the /speaker's/ gender as well, as is done in some languages.
>>They have a great position and a great scrounge, but they're not popular and don't seem to be pushing hard for trade like some other people.<<
A questing destination, rather than a trading outpost. And if they're interesting enough to whoever's looking...
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 06:50 pm (UTC)They do have a basic idea how reproduction works. *ponder* Coming from a queer community, they may even have more advanced knowledge.
>> As for midwives, they'll need them anyway. Not just for folks who decide to have kids but for female bodied folks who show already pregnant. <<
Good point.
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 06:46 pm (UTC)They do know the basics of reproduction. The oldest were (young) teens when the last of the adults died out. That's old enough to know a lot of basic information, and the adults would've done their best to pass along everything they could.
>> They'd also need a midwife, hopefully one compatible with the lifestyle. <<
Well, they have a medic already. That's a start.
>> In this setting, keeping kids alive is just as valuable as actually making more. I wouldn't be surprised if folk started pointing this out in increasingly sarcastic tones as the years go by.<<
Absolutely. Milk-fostering is more common in this context, if one woman loses a baby and another woman dies or can't make enough milk for her surviving infant.
>>Furthermore, while everyone's choices are their own, people continually feeling entitled to pester you about your gender presentation / sexuality / sex life etc gets annoying.<<
Agreed. I can sympathize with people wanting humanity to persist, but that doesn't make it okay to abuse or rape people.
>> [Personally] I get nowhere near the level of hassle some people get - but one of the reasons I loved Fury Road is that the pretty women weren't just there to be oogled. <<
That was awesome. :D
>> Keep your hands and nosiness to yourself folks, my sharing is different than your taking.<<
Well said.
>> I wouldn't be surprised if outsiders pestering folks to make babies would make the whole thing a rather uncomftorable and slightly taboo topic in the community. <<
Likely so.
>> Of course, some people might decide "Screw this, I'm not discussing this with you," and refuse to deal with any of it if they get fed up enough with the pestering.<<
That is a big reason why Rainbow Hills gets immigrants. Conversely, I suspect that some community members who grew up to be straight moved to other communities in search of compatible mates.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 07:48 pm (UTC)Also, a polite request/question from someone you have a close and respectful relationship with will go over better than teasing or being should-ed at.
And I do recall an absolutely hilarious occurrence in a story I read once:
The ladies (who are an item) are looking for a Chosen Conception Partner, and settle on a few possibilities. The first guy they ask responds to the compliment of "you're a decent and respectful person" (by pointing out that that should be the standard), then responds to the first-right-of-refusal paternity offer by...coughing his drink out of his nose and disappearing in a hurry.
The other guy [first guy's best friend] involved in the conversation ends up weighing in that first guy will be fine, but it is also resolved the ladies will apologize for making him uncomfortable.
Then it turns out that the ladies consider second guy to be also be a very dear friend, and is the next person they were planning to ask. He points out they're not his type, they point out he's not their type, and after a reasonable discussion of a few complicating family/legal issues, they work out a mutual arraignment.
Thoughts
Date: 2021-05-24 06:30 pm (UTC)The gals had fun in one bedroom, and the guys got it on in another. Someone ran a turkey baster from the guys to the gals when the time was right. It worked.<<
That's true, if the people want to reproduce. These don't seem to, at least at this stage. The lesbians might want to someday; they're still teenagers. The men are much less likely to do so, having already raised the whole younger community.
>> So if the guys *want* to help, they can do it. Forcing them to help is right out though. <<
If people were lamenting their inability to breed, I would discreetly offer suggestions on how to work around those limitations. In a situation where they've been pressured to do it against their will? I wouldn't mention it.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-05-24 09:14 pm (UTC)