Wonder Woman

[ysabetwordsmith]

You know you've picked a good one when your husband does this.  Mate selection = WIN.

One time I was in a grocery store line, listening to all the women complaining about all the things their men wouldn't do.  Not having a dog in that fight, I didn't say anything.  Apparently this was weird, because after a while one of them turned to me and said, "What about you, sweetie?"

I shrugged and said, "Mine cooks East Indian feast food."

This is what you get when you select for personality and life skills, rather than a pretty face and a big dick.

Comments

[caera_ash]

You are amazingly lucky in your partner. I'm a bit jealous.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I am exceptionally lucky, and that is only ONE of the many impressive things he does. :D

You know how women are always complaining, where are all the good guys? ;) Nifty little place called FriendZone.

Re: Yes...

[caera_ash]

I've known good people. Good guys. I just can't seem to let go of my fears enough as an adult to get to the point where I feel comfortable asking for hugs, let alone have a more-than-basic-real-friend relationship. Maybe someday. Hopefully. At least a roommate who I can cuddle and cook with. That's a thing, right?

*sigh* I should just give up and get an animal...

Re: Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I've known good people. Good guys. <<

That's encouraging.

>> I just can't seem to let go of my fears enough as an adult to get to the point where I feel comfortable asking for hugs, let alone have a more-than-basic-real-friend relationship. <<

There are a lot of things mixed together there, including but not necessarily limited to:

* When dealing with bothersome fears, seek to obtain a yield. Don't push yourself to do things just because someone says you "should" do it. Think about what you will gain if you overcome that fear. In this case, you want closer relationships and comfort contact. Keep that in mind; it may help you navigate.

* If asking for a hug is too much, look for other options that are less difficult. Can you accept a hug if someone you like offers it? Can you ask for, or accept, smaller contacts such as holding hands or sitting side-to-side on a couch?

* Some folks who aren't in a close relationship like to seek healthy touch in other contexts. Haircuts are the most popular, but nail jobs, massages, and other body care also work.

* Conversely, you may find it easier to do things with someone you already know well. If so, then look for ways to deepen existing relationships, or start new ones.

* Don't push yourself to make it deeper if you don't feel comfortable, though. A good rule for psychological stretching is the same as physical stretching: find your comfortable limit, take it one step further, and then pull back. By stretching gently, it's usually possible to gain flexibility over time, without ripping anything. Personality ruptures are really unpleasant.

* If it's the guy part that trips you up, consider trying with gals instead.

* For removing bad tape from your head, cognitive-behavioral therapy is a good bet. It works especially well for logic-driven people. It's less good with pure emotions though.

* Some people find exposure therapy helpful, but it's miserable and has a high rate of people bailing out. If that's not your thing, consider anchoring with positive emotions or counterconditioning at a safe distance or with enjoyable associations instead.

>> Maybe someday. Hopefully. At least a roommate who I can cuddle and cook with. That's a thing, right? <<

That's a thing. You might consider looking for folks toward the asexual end of the spectrum. They are likely to have congruent interests, and they often have difficulty finding people who want to be with them. If your goals for a relationship are aligned, and you're both definite about wanting a platonic relationship rather than a sexual one, those boundaries can be mutually reassuring. For the same reason, some people like friends who are sexual but not sexually compatible -- the "gay best friend" phenomenon.

>> *sigh* I should just give up and get an animal... <<

A furry pet can meet some of the need for loving touch, although not all of it. That doesn't necessarily mean giving up. It might help you learn skills that you can apply to human relationships.

You've got options. You can try different things, when you have the energy, and see what pans out for you.

Re: Yes...

[beasts_of_homeworld]

a lot of what you said here sounds really familiar to us as a group of largely asexual and similar folks. we know you might not be asexual yourself, but the ace community is a good place to go searching for the kind of relationship you described. and it sounds possible you also might be ace or aromantic or something similar, so it might be worth looking into a bit if you want, or you're welcome to share with us and/or ask us to share about ourselves on the subject, and ask us questions if you like.

yes, a platonic life partnership like you described is totally a thing. you can absolutely have a roommate you can cuddle and cook with. that's a totally legitimate relationship type that is really out there. for some examples of similar things, you could try searching for terms like "queerplatonic" and "cuddle-buddy" and "spinster sisters" to give just a couple of options. there are examples throughout history and across different cultures, it's just often been called other things.

for a personal example, one of our primary life partners is someone who we cuddle with or just affectionately rest nearby with, watch movies with, talk about our and their day with, share triumphs and struggles and creativity and other such things with, co-operatively write stories together with, share things that made us laugh with, spend time with doing nothing in particular, and just generally support each other and be friends. we don't live together because we-the-beasts prefer not to share a living space with any other human-body-wearers. we also don't engage in sex or romance together, though we might share a good fanfic occasionally. our relationship is committed and stable, and is just as meaningful and important and worthwhile as any marriage or other committed sexual and/or romantic relationship.

it doesn't have to be explicit or committed or lifelong either though. a relationship can include any traits, activities, details, timespans, etc that you want and not include anything you don't want. it's your relationship, you get to define it and pick and choose what you want in it. think of it like a buffet: anything you enjoy doing with other people or want right now, you can put on your relationship-plate, anything you don't, just leave it out.

finding a compatible partner who wants roughly the same kind of relationship you want (or with whom you find a happy medium where nobody's doing anything they don't want to do) can be a challenge in this society, because it's so full of nonsense about romantic-sexual relationships being the only 'real' option that's 'worth' committing to, and other such ridiculousness. but it's getting easier again.

like ysabet said, asexual communities can be a great place to look, regardless of whether you yourself want to identify as ace or not. here's an asexual dating and social network site. there's also a list of ace and nonsexual dating sites with links, and a review of various ace and nonsexual dating sites with pros and cons. or you can look for asexual communities on dreamwidth or other sites.

feel free to ask us if you have any questions or confusions or worries, or just want some support or reassurance, or anything else on the subject. also, it's okay if you don't feel like the words we're using fit you, we apologise if we've mis-labelled you or anything.

Re: Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> and it sounds possible you also might be ace or aromantic or something similar, so it might be worth looking into a bit if you want <<

It's a spectrum, really, from asexual through gray-ace to sexual. Same with romance. Some people aren't into it at all, some only a little, others quite a lot. And demis don't turn on until after forming a close emotional tie.

Some people find it helpful to map the different aspects of their sex/gender stuff:

http://www.transstudent.org/gender

How to know if you're asexual, and some of these apply to gray-sexual orientation too:

http://www.asexualityarchive.com/possible-signs-of-asexuality-part-1-about-you/

http://time.com/2889469/asexual-orientation/

http://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-You-Are-Asexual

>> that's a totally legitimate relationship type that is really out there. for some examples of similar things, you could try searching for terms like "queerplatonic" and "cuddle-buddy" and "spinster sisters" to give just a couple of options. <<

Zucchini!

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Zucchini

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/65570-squashes-and-zucchinis/

https://writingfromfactorx.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/my-thoughts-on-the-word-zucchini/

Also Boston marriage is often considered a lesbian relationship, but can include asexual ones too.

https://www.thoughtco.com/boston-marriage-definition-3528567

Re: Yes...

[beasts_of_homeworld]

yes! although a spectrum seems a bit limiting to us, personally. most things western humans tend to refer to as a 'spectrum' seem more like a vast multidimensional space to us. but maybe that's too big and overwhelming a concept for humans and similarly-minded people unfamiliar with the subject.

but yeah exactly, there's a lot of different possibilities and combinations and degrees of things. some beasties are gray-a, some are demisexual, some are romantic asexuals, some are aromantic sexuals, some are demiromantic and ace, some are lithromantic or lithosexual... some of us are sex-repulsed, some are autosexual, some are attracted to people and spent years being confused and distressed because society told us that meant we wanted sex but we didn't... etcetera.

haha, yeah we considered including 'zucchini' as one of the suggested search terms! it's a cute one, we like it!

thanks for adding some more links! ^_^

Re: Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>yes! although a spectrum seems a bit limiting to us, personally. most things western humans tend to refer to as a 'spectrum' seem more like a vast multidimensional space to us. but maybe that's too big and overwhelming a concept for humans and similarly-minded people unfamiliar with the subject.<<

LOL yes. This is why I sometimes say, "My sexuality is a tesseract." That is, it has manifold dimensions and won't fit on a spectrum.

However, any one trait can be teased out of the tangle, stretched into a line, and examined in a perspective of "less" to "more" of that thing. I sometimes find this useful.

It's when you look at all the things together, you get cosmic strings and white holes and other fun stuff. Unfortunately when I talk about sex/gender at my natural level of fluency, most people tend to look at me like I've just started quoting Stephen Hawking's math. *sigh*

Re: Yes...

[beasts_of_homeworld]

yep! XD (laughing face) we wondered if you might experience that too! the look of "oh gods is this theoretical physics or something? i am way over my head" or the look of "what the ever-loving sparkly porpoise are you even saying!" haha. and we also get the "...the fuck's wrong with you weirdoes?" look for that sort of thing, too. all of which seem like they can fit under what you described. *grin*

we so rarely interact with people we pretty much just don't usually bother to hush ourselves down to 'generally acceptable' levels any more, because then we'd just never be being ourselves at all. it depends on who we're talking to and our level of energy and patience available for them and that moment... like we'll do it with our grandparents, because we value them and their viewpoints and we don't expect them to keep up with new lingo and the details of new concepts when it's a challenge for them to remember words they already know or learn the details of practical concepts like using a computer. we just recently visited them and had a lovely discussion about the struggles of trans* women and people of any gender who can get mistaken for men with presenting in feminine or nonbinary ways safely in this society. it just wasn't in those words. *grin*

but tesseract is a fantastic word to use! :D (big smile) that's awesome and so appropriate. we love that.

for us the pulling out one thread thing doesn't usually work out, it just ends up making us feel invisible or invalidated or inaccurately portrayed/recognised, and confusing us into believing brainweasels that say we "have to be X because W" or "must do Y if we're Z" or similar. too much abuse focussed on crushing our identity and boundaries, and forcing certain behaviours. plus even just the one trait usually seems to have more variation than just 'less' and 'more' for us, but we are extremely complex and varying chaos-based beings so that's probably not surprising. *grin*

edit:
we've realised you weren't saying that 'less' and 'more' are the only variants involved in the single trait you're looking at, just that you're only examining those values and not the others. that does sound very useful in all kinds of different ways and situations, yeah! like we said, we struggle with it because our brain is so full of tripwire-like fallacies that we do better when we keep more variations in the front of our mind to remind us that the possibilities are wider. but yeah, we get what you mean now, we think! ^_^ (happy face)
end edit.

it's awesome to get to chat a bit about it with someone else who experiences that sort of thing, though! <3

another 'am i asexual' resource

[beasts_of_homeworld]

for anyone who likes and can access youtube videos with someone looking at and talking to the camera (human-written subtitles available), we recommend Queer As Cat's Am I Asexual? Never Too Young To Know and Support For Older Asexuals - Coming Out Later In Life, Questioning, And Trauma Survivors videos.

although they're both age-related, they both contain things that can be very helpful at any age. both videos contain occasional strong language, neither contain mention of any specific kinds of trauma.

Re: Yes...

[beasts_of_homeworld]

for the consideration of anyone interested: the 'friendzone' as a misogynistic tool of r*pe culture.

not trying to imply that's what you were using it as. in our opinion, you weren't using it that way. just thought it might be handy relevant info for anyone not already familiar.

we agree that some people, of any gender, might have missed some people who'd make great partners for them by forgetting to check personality traits etc as well as appearance and such. and that a reminder might come in useful for them, ~if~ they're the sort of person to be interested and happy in a relationship with someone they might not be physically attracted to, and the sort to be attracted to people in other ways. it's also worth watching out for the tendency to imply (or be misconstrued as implying, due to society's common messages) that people (especially women) should engage in relationships with others (especially men) based on that other person's traits being considered 'worth' a relationship regardless of whether the original person is actually interested and consenting. ^_^ <3 (happy face, heart)

[johnpalmer]

Well, it's also a line used by mutually clueless guys who don't get that people don't choose their reactions.

I saw a great example of it by a guy who couldn't realize that, wow, if he creeped out a dozen or more women with his normal actions that *maybe* they weren't *deciding* to be creeped out - maybe he needed to learn how not to be the same way. He continued to speak as if he felt it was a conscious choice. Well, it wasn't - some people I knew felt *sorry* for him, but, realized he had no sense of proper boundaries, and didn't care, other than insofar as people who felt creeped out were being mean to him.

To me, it feels a bit like a gateway drug - I've had the same feeling about frustration that I was viewed only as friend material, but I never had it pushed at me misogynistically as I've seen happen, so I reckon I feel lucky that I didn't partake of that particular drug too heavily.

[beasts_of_homeworld]

yes, we agree.

several of us have had similar sorts of experiences, though not with the 'friendzone' concept specifically, but of being subconsciously misogynistic due to cluelessness in other ways. you're right, it is very easy to obliviously roll along with society's norms and subtle messages, that's how oppression works and keeps on going.

personally we still call it misogynistic in that kind of situation, because a good deal of misogyny and other such things is due to cluelessness and not questioning the worldview presented to you. it's fairly rare someone mistreats a minority person because they're actually consciously thinking "i hate this person because they are X" or "this individual is Y and therefore not a real person." it's subtler and harder to identify, and works in the background of your brain where you can't see it.

the problem here is that people are brought up surrounded by attitudes, assumptions, myths and subtle nuances that predispose them to thinking of certain people in certain ways, which results in treating them in certain ways. like the person you describe not caring if he creeped women out and seeing their responses as 'mean' to him - rather than as fairly defending themselves. it's not a conscious decision or a malicious act, it's just saturation from your (our, his) surroundings. like a fish in polluted water - you/we/he can't help breathing it in, and if you grew up in that water, it tastes normal. that's not your fault (or ours) but it also needs questioning and focussing on and working on to unlearn.

this is the kind of misogyny/racism/ableism/etc that we really need to call those words and call attention to, because the reason it works is that it's subtle and sneaky and seeps into the foundations of your worldview. and it's never going to go away unless we point it out and call it what it is.

so yeah, you're absolutely right, that's how a lot of misogyny happens and it is very easy to do - we've done it too.

[technoshaman]

Yeahwell, when you're Gal Gadot, ex-IDF, and you don't hide that fact, the guys who don't measure up figure you'll just beat the gefilte out of them, and don't bother you. This guy? Obviously revels in the presence of strong women.... and can keep up!

(Have you been seeing the Wonder Woman cartoon strips go by lately? The one where Diana gives Clark a lesson about marriage, and the one where she gives a baby superhera a push in the right direction? Wondy has been the source of a LOT of awesome of late....

And one of my favourite musical-bards has a WW costume, and went busking in it a few days ago. She said she had a number of interesting experiences, mostly involving young girls...)

As for choice of partners in current context, I'd say you're BOTH pretty lucky. :)

Good guys

[dialecticdreamer]

Given the last three years, I either had my best friend covering my back (metaphorically speaking), or I would have fallen apart. When it was my turn to cover his back, well, that's what the word 'partner' means.

We're in this together. I may have changed more light bulbs and he has definitely taken more spiders outside, but we're pretty much in this fifty-fifty. Equals, even when we're both over our heads and floundering. That's 2015 in a nutshell, I think.

Re: Good guys

[ysabetwordsmith]

I'm so happy that you have that.

I am the Knight in Shining Armor Pest Control Service. That means vermin handling is my job. Usually I don't mind it, or even enjoy it.
Sometimes it is annoying, like when there is a situation that requires me to wake up early and go deal with something. But it doesn't bother me. All jobs have parts that suck; the secret to happiness is finding a job whose irritating aspects you can tolerate. This is true for household chores as well as professions.

Conversely, my partner handles the budget, because I am not good with numbers. And so on.

We make a good team.

Re: Good guys

[dialecticdreamer]

We've had some horrible tests of our family bonds in the last three years, but we're still here, and learning from our mistakes.

Re: Good guys

[ysabetwordsmith]

I am incredibly impressed that you've held together. Many families break apart under stress.

Re: Good guys

[dialecticdreamer]

It's work. We don't have enough good skills, but we're working on it, and are trying to set up family counseling to gain more skills. (Hope is diminishing on that front, but there are other avenues for learning.)

It's also worth it, to us individually and as a family.

Re: Good guys

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> It's work. <<

Relationships generally are, and troubled ones all the more so. But sometimes they're worth it.

>> We don't have enough good skills, but we're working on it, <<

In my observation, people with large problems who work on them have a higher success rate than people with small problems who do not.

>> and are trying to set up family counseling to gain more skills. (Hope is diminishing on that front, but there are other avenues for learning.) <<

It's a good idea, if you can find a useful therapist, and people are at least willing to give it a try. Sometimes it helps, other times not. However, even if nobody will go with you, then you can still go by yourself. Look for a family therapist who will work with you individually in hopes that if you show progress, that may encourage others to join in. There are some therapists who do this routinely, just because it's so common for one person to reach their breaking point ahead of others, but not all family therapists will do this.

>> It's also worth it, to us individually and as a family. <<

Yay!

[beasts_of_homeworld]

Gal Gadot sounds utterly awesome.

we personally mate-select for compatibility with all of the things about us that western earth society rejects, and healthy relationship dynamics. and then after that decide based on whether being around this person/these people makes us want to be around them more. gender, body, and etc don't really enter into the equation for us. we mean... most of us are nonhuman animals, or some other kind of nonhuman so... we're already dating outside of our own species anyway. a lot of our partners are also nonhuman of course, but still often different species. so yeah... the heck do human body shapes matter anyway.

we start out with a pretty restricted pool of options because there are so many things about us that society hates. and these days because we have so little energy left for spending time with anyone. but it's kinda handy too because once you whittle it down to people who are supportive of all the things western earth society oppresses, and cool with our interaction style and infrequency, you've only really got awesome people left.

the t-shirt kind of creeps us out a little, because from what we can see in the picture it has detail of Wonder Woman's waist and chest, but not her face. and it strikes us as being more about pitting women against each other than actually empowering anyone... the whole "have to put others down to build someone up" attitude. we love the cape interpretation for the generic restroom sign though.

East Indian feast food is awesome though. and just in general, it always sounds like your partner is pretty cool. we're glad! :D (big smile)

we have some pretty awesome partners too, but most of all we have each other so we're ahead of the game on that front. *grin*

[zesty_pinto]

Thanks for reminding me I need to learn more recipes, ha!

I sometimes think people tease Michelle since I do all the cooking and the like, but given how she cleans up after me and deals with my mental issues, I still think I got the better end of the deal.

mate selection

[rafiwinters]

Anybody who cooks for me is a winner in my book. So does this mean that since I cook for my fiancee, she thinks I'm a winner? :)

Re: mate selection

[ysabetwordsmith]

That's entirely possible. I have observed cooking to be a high-value skill on the mate market.

*chuckle* One young man I know was moving into his first apartment, and therefore, would have a kitchen of his very own. He wanted cooking equipment for a housewarming gift. So we went to a store and picked up pots and pans, measuring cups and spoons, utensils, etc. And then ...

Saleslady: "Oh, are you going to a wedding?"

Us: "No, we're buying a housewarming gift for someone who's getting his first kitchen. He cooks, and this is what he wanted."

Saleslady: "... does he have a girlfriend?"

Re: mate selection

[rafiwinters]

People do tend to assume that girls do the cooking, boys the eating. But gosh, that's sexist, and heteronormative, and so on.

[rhodielady-47.livejournal.com]

AMEN!
Life skills rock!
Personality isn't a luxury--it's a necessity!
:^)