Story: "Am I Not" Part 2
May. 7th, 2014 02:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis story belongs to the series Love Is For Children which includes "Love Is for Children," "Hairpins," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys,""Saudades," "Querencia," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," "Birthday Girl," "No Winter Lasts Forever," "Hide and Seek," "Kernel Error," "Happy Hour," and "Green Eggs and Hulk."
Fandom: The Avengers, Thor
Characters: Loki, Frigga
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Past abuse. Past torture. Past suicide attempt. Past mindrape. Dubious consent / nonconsent. Soul violence. Imprisonment. Isolation. Racism. Internalized racism. Self-hate. Self-destructive behavior. Shame. Envy. Depression. Dysfunctional family dynamics. Verbal abuse. Victim-blaming. WARN ALL THE THINGS.
Summary: Loki and Frigga talk while he is imprisoned.
Notes: Hurt/Comfort. Mostly hurt. Emotional whump. Angst. Adoption. Sibling rivalry. Manipulation. Communication issues. Truth. Lies. Poor intrapersonal skills. Nonsexual love. Boundary issues. Trust issues. Daddy issues. Maternal love. Subterfuge. Rejection. Books. Reading. Magic. Wisdom. Hope. Loki's head is a bag of cats. You can smell crazy on him. Loki needs a hug.
Begin with Part 1. Skip to Part 4, Part 5.
"Am I Not" Part 2
"My actions," Loki said, letting the bitterness seep out like poison. Was there ever so vain and useless a thing in all the realms as Loki's actions? "Let us recount whose actions began the war between Asgard and Jotunheim. That would be King Bor. We should further consider whose actions led to me growing up in the wrong realm, raised on tales to make me despise my own kind as monsters. That would be King Odin." His mouth gave a wry quirk. "If we are handing out blame, I seem to have come late to the party. There is little left but crumbs for me. As usual."
"Your father --"
"He is not my father!" Loki shouted. The pain of it tore at him even now.
"Then am I not your mother?" she countered, her voice as gentle and unwelcome as worried fingertips upon a sunburn.
Loki hurt so much that he just wanted to hit back. He wanted someone else to hurt as much as he did. So he cooled his voice to indifference and replied, "You are not."
"Always so perceptive about everyone but yourself," Frigga said. Her eyes glinted in the harsh light, rimmed silver by tears even as she smiled at him.
He had made her weep. For him. Oh, surely Loki was the vilest creature that ever lived! They were right to call him a monster. Look what he had done to the only person who loved him, not in spite of what he was, but because of it. He knew it was all false, and yet he had no strength to resist being taken in by it just the same.
"I am a fool," Loki muttered, dropping his gaze to the toes of his boots. They were scuffed and dusty, as disreputable as the rest of him.
"The question is, my son, whether you will remain one," Frigga said. "I bid you recall what I said to you when you were very young, and we quarreled over how you were to spend your time."
Loki could not help but remember. Do the work your tutors have left for you, and then you may go play. Frigga had said it over and over again. Loki had learned, eventually, that if he did the work briskly enough he could get outside while there was yet daylight left for exploring the gardens. Thor never did learn, and Loki would not leave him, so perforce they both stayed inside more days than not. In time Loki had come to love the books for their own sake. They held no savor for him now, though.
Frigga took a step toward him, holding out her hands. Even knowing, Loki found himself stepping into her reach. The moment their fingers touched, her magic flared along his, shocking as storm-sparks. The illusion frayed away into a roil of golden motes that faded from the air.
Loki was left with naught but his own thoughts for company. Sometimes he hated them, always yowling and scratching at him, wild as barn cats.
Please, don't make things worse ...
Define 'worse.'
* * *
Notes:
Loki lacks agency, which can be described in various ways as having influence over one's own actions and their outcomes. Therefore he has little or no sense of ownership or responsibility for what he does. People typically develop agency during adolescence; that hasn't happened due to Loki's dysfunctional family life. Agency is also a primary requirement for heroes in literature; it expresses their power to impact the plotlines.
Abusive men parent badly. Paternal child abuse may include shaming, blaming, belittling, invalidation, objectification, intimidation, raging, self-aggrandizement, and unreliability. Think about how Odin appears in canon.
Verbal abuse spans a wide range of hurtful words. Abusers speak in destructive ways: name-calling, breaking intimacy, playing word games, insulting people you care about, mocking your ideas, disregarding your needs, threatening you, etc. Yet they also deny this is abuse, especially insisting that the victim "made them do it." This can amount to brainwashing the victim. It is possible for abusers to change, but only with great effort. There are ways to prevent emotional abuse.
Scapegoating is when one person is singled out as the black sheep of a dysfunctional family. This is often the person who tells uncomfortable truths or refuses to submit to the abuse. Dysfunctional rules and roles can be very rigid, and scapegoating is very harmful. Nevertheless there are ways to escape.
Loki: [about Odin] He is not my father!
Frigga: So I am not your mother?
[pause]
Loki: You are not.
-- Thor 2
Hurting people hurt people, especially the ones they love. They do this for a lot of reasons, but it can rebound on them. This is an issue in bullying. There ways to resist the temptation to lash out, and to help others who are hurting without putting yourself at risk.
Family rejection is a serious problem. Children who grow up rejected may later reject their parents. This can be helpful in the case of abusive parenting. There are ways to cope with an abusive or otherwise terrible father.
Other-awareness is a useful relationship skill. You can add insight to observations of behavior. Loki gets most of his from situational awareness. Here's an exercise to improve other-awareness.
Self-awareness is the reciprocal skill for personal growth. Know how to develop self-awareness.
Self-hatred or self-loathing shows deep damage to the psyche, causing self-destructive patterns. Loki has a lot of internalized racism. There are ways of healing self-hate.
Self-blame is a form of emotional abuse or self-bullying. In particular, Loki's self-talk is extremely negative. Children are especially vulnerable to developing self-blame if they are constantly condemned. This makes change difficult. Learn how to stop blaming yourself.
Parents can help children learn good homework skills. There are tips for children and teens too. Plan a homework schedule. Notice how Loki's interests evolve over time.
Intrusive thoughts can get in the way of more constructive action. Know how to interrupt obsessive thinking.
Frigga: Please, don't make things worse...
Loki: Define 'worse.'
-- Thor 2
In cases of child abuse, the nonoffending parent may have a conflicted relationship with the children. Frigga loves her sons, but she failed to protect them from an abusive father. Mothers sometimes support paternal abuse even if they do not participate in it, such as urging children to behave so they won't get punished. (This never works; nobody can be perfect enough to please an abuser. Even Thor couldn't do it, and he's a god.) The accommodation of child abuse is a widespread social problem, not limited to the sexual abuse discussed in that link. Consider that Loki's criticism of Odin is dismissed due to Loki's "own" misbehavior. Adults often fail to protect children in tragic ways.
Abusers make excuses to blame their victims. However, other people also tend to excuse domestic abusers and accommodate child abusers, choosing to blame the victims also. The abuser always works from an advantaged positions so that the victim must work uphill in order to make anyone believe them.
[To be continued in Part 3 ...]
Fandom: The Avengers, Thor
Characters: Loki, Frigga
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Past abuse. Past torture. Past suicide attempt. Past mindrape. Dubious consent / nonconsent. Soul violence. Imprisonment. Isolation. Racism. Internalized racism. Self-hate. Self-destructive behavior. Shame. Envy. Depression. Dysfunctional family dynamics. Verbal abuse. Victim-blaming. WARN ALL THE THINGS.
Summary: Loki and Frigga talk while he is imprisoned.
Notes: Hurt/Comfort. Mostly hurt. Emotional whump. Angst. Adoption. Sibling rivalry. Manipulation. Communication issues. Truth. Lies. Poor intrapersonal skills. Nonsexual love. Boundary issues. Trust issues. Daddy issues. Maternal love. Subterfuge. Rejection. Books. Reading. Magic. Wisdom. Hope. Loki's head is a bag of cats. You can smell crazy on him. Loki needs a hug.
Begin with Part 1. Skip to Part 4, Part 5.
"Am I Not" Part 2
"My actions," Loki said, letting the bitterness seep out like poison. Was there ever so vain and useless a thing in all the realms as Loki's actions? "Let us recount whose actions began the war between Asgard and Jotunheim. That would be King Bor. We should further consider whose actions led to me growing up in the wrong realm, raised on tales to make me despise my own kind as monsters. That would be King Odin." His mouth gave a wry quirk. "If we are handing out blame, I seem to have come late to the party. There is little left but crumbs for me. As usual."
"Your father --"
"He is not my father!" Loki shouted. The pain of it tore at him even now.
"Then am I not your mother?" she countered, her voice as gentle and unwelcome as worried fingertips upon a sunburn.
Loki hurt so much that he just wanted to hit back. He wanted someone else to hurt as much as he did. So he cooled his voice to indifference and replied, "You are not."
"Always so perceptive about everyone but yourself," Frigga said. Her eyes glinted in the harsh light, rimmed silver by tears even as she smiled at him.
He had made her weep. For him. Oh, surely Loki was the vilest creature that ever lived! They were right to call him a monster. Look what he had done to the only person who loved him, not in spite of what he was, but because of it. He knew it was all false, and yet he had no strength to resist being taken in by it just the same.
"I am a fool," Loki muttered, dropping his gaze to the toes of his boots. They were scuffed and dusty, as disreputable as the rest of him.
"The question is, my son, whether you will remain one," Frigga said. "I bid you recall what I said to you when you were very young, and we quarreled over how you were to spend your time."
Loki could not help but remember. Do the work your tutors have left for you, and then you may go play. Frigga had said it over and over again. Loki had learned, eventually, that if he did the work briskly enough he could get outside while there was yet daylight left for exploring the gardens. Thor never did learn, and Loki would not leave him, so perforce they both stayed inside more days than not. In time Loki had come to love the books for their own sake. They held no savor for him now, though.
Frigga took a step toward him, holding out her hands. Even knowing, Loki found himself stepping into her reach. The moment their fingers touched, her magic flared along his, shocking as storm-sparks. The illusion frayed away into a roil of golden motes that faded from the air.
Loki was left with naught but his own thoughts for company. Sometimes he hated them, always yowling and scratching at him, wild as barn cats.
Please, don't make things worse ...
Define 'worse.'
* * *
Notes:
Loki lacks agency, which can be described in various ways as having influence over one's own actions and their outcomes. Therefore he has little or no sense of ownership or responsibility for what he does. People typically develop agency during adolescence; that hasn't happened due to Loki's dysfunctional family life. Agency is also a primary requirement for heroes in literature; it expresses their power to impact the plotlines.
Abusive men parent badly. Paternal child abuse may include shaming, blaming, belittling, invalidation, objectification, intimidation, raging, self-aggrandizement, and unreliability. Think about how Odin appears in canon.
Verbal abuse spans a wide range of hurtful words. Abusers speak in destructive ways: name-calling, breaking intimacy, playing word games, insulting people you care about, mocking your ideas, disregarding your needs, threatening you, etc. Yet they also deny this is abuse, especially insisting that the victim "made them do it." This can amount to brainwashing the victim. It is possible for abusers to change, but only with great effort. There are ways to prevent emotional abuse.
Scapegoating is when one person is singled out as the black sheep of a dysfunctional family. This is often the person who tells uncomfortable truths or refuses to submit to the abuse. Dysfunctional rules and roles can be very rigid, and scapegoating is very harmful. Nevertheless there are ways to escape.
Loki: [about Odin] He is not my father!
Frigga: So I am not your mother?
[pause]
Loki: You are not.
-- Thor 2
Hurting people hurt people, especially the ones they love. They do this for a lot of reasons, but it can rebound on them. This is an issue in bullying. There ways to resist the temptation to lash out, and to help others who are hurting without putting yourself at risk.
Family rejection is a serious problem. Children who grow up rejected may later reject their parents. This can be helpful in the case of abusive parenting. There are ways to cope with an abusive or otherwise terrible father.
Other-awareness is a useful relationship skill. You can add insight to observations of behavior. Loki gets most of his from situational awareness. Here's an exercise to improve other-awareness.
Self-awareness is the reciprocal skill for personal growth. Know how to develop self-awareness.
Self-hatred or self-loathing shows deep damage to the psyche, causing self-destructive patterns. Loki has a lot of internalized racism. There are ways of healing self-hate.
Self-blame is a form of emotional abuse or self-bullying. In particular, Loki's self-talk is extremely negative. Children are especially vulnerable to developing self-blame if they are constantly condemned. This makes change difficult. Learn how to stop blaming yourself.
Parents can help children learn good homework skills. There are tips for children and teens too. Plan a homework schedule. Notice how Loki's interests evolve over time.
Intrusive thoughts can get in the way of more constructive action. Know how to interrupt obsessive thinking.
Frigga: Please, don't make things worse...
Loki: Define 'worse.'
-- Thor 2
In cases of child abuse, the nonoffending parent may have a conflicted relationship with the children. Frigga loves her sons, but she failed to protect them from an abusive father. Mothers sometimes support paternal abuse even if they do not participate in it, such as urging children to behave so they won't get punished. (This never works; nobody can be perfect enough to please an abuser. Even Thor couldn't do it, and he's a god.) The accommodation of child abuse is a widespread social problem, not limited to the sexual abuse discussed in that link. Consider that Loki's criticism of Odin is dismissed due to Loki's "own" misbehavior. Adults often fail to protect children in tragic ways.
Abusers make excuses to blame their victims. However, other people also tend to excuse domestic abusers and accommodate child abusers, choosing to blame the victims also. The abuser always works from an advantaged positions so that the victim must work uphill in order to make anyone believe them.
[To be continued in Part 3 ...]
Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-07 04:02 pm (UTC)But Loki needs to actually do what he's thinking about-- define 'WORSE'. Sometimes, following that trail of "either/or" statements to their ultimate ends (and there will be quite a tree of them, given the way he's thinking) will HELP. Will tell him that, really, what he's losing is an illusion, and Loki NEVER used illusions for their own sake.
Thanks for posting.
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-07 05:50 pm (UTC)Challenging to write, also.
>> But Loki needs to actually do what he's thinking about-- define 'WORSE'. <<
Possibly so. I think Frigga may be right about Loki's intrapersonal skills, though.
See, this is why I need to wrap up other plotlines before adding the brothers Odinson. After the Avengers have taught Bruce how to see himself clearly, they'll have solid groundwork for teaching Loki the same thing.
What would be worse for Loki? Well, this Odin seems not to have a taste for humping little boys. That could be worse. Other than that, I'm running short on ideas.
>> Sometimes, following that trail of "either/or" statements to their ultimate ends (and there will be quite a tree of them, given the way he's thinking) will HELP. Will tell him that, really, what he's losing is an illusion, and Loki NEVER used illusions for their own sake. <<
That's true. I think a lot of Loki's difficulty right now is realizing how much of his life was a damned lie. It's no wonder he feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, disowning Thor and Frigga. After all, they didn't protect him.
>> Thanks for posting. <<
You're welcome.
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-07 06:17 pm (UTC)But, specifically, Loki really needs to not just "define worse" in terms of Odin. "Worse" in comparison to the way the other Asgardians treated him, will probably show that they wouldn't have been much different if he'd been blue, naked and strumming a harp in the courtyard. Seriously. He didn't conform, therefore he was the butt of the joke, et cetera-- the DEGREE of his nonconformity was the only real secret.
And a few of the more HONEST Asgardians would've accepted him as an Other-worthy-of-respect IF they'd both recognized him as a CHILD -they didn't tend to, even when THOR was given the same courtesy- and as someone fighting with the tools he used best. Specifically, Vanaheim fights differently, but they aren't treated with the same level of disdain that Loki was. Why, again and again, is HE the only exception, the only one not worthy of basic consideration?
It smacks of a systematically abusive culture for ALL nonconformity, in some ways. Sif got a /lot/ of crap for wanting to fight with the men, not just be a female warrior, and the two WERE different things. Yet Marvel whitewashed all of that. ONLY Loki is portrayed as Other, even by the Warriors Three.
Tiresome, and in some ways difficult to deal with calmly.
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-10 04:58 am (UTC)Or else there could be a very unpleasant altercation between Bruce and Hulk. They see Loki differently. Hulk is the one who beat up Loki, but Bruce probably has a worse opinion of him.
>> brought up by people who abused him while claiming to 'love' him. So yes, more work for Bruce before the Asgardians get to join in. <<
Yeah, Loki is going to bring all the triggers for the folks who grew up in abusive families. Bruce-and-Hulk probably had the most sheer violence. Tony shares much the same daddy issues.
The hell of it with Loki and Clint is, they understand each other now, and regardless of how much they hurt each other they are still going to feel that pull. It's what underlies all the hatefic about the two of them, which I admit, can be fun. In this series, though, Clint has do so much personal work already that he is just nowhere near the same place Loki left him, so that's going have a huge impact on how they interact.
>> But, specifically, Loki really needs to not just "define worse" in terms of Odin. "Worse" in comparison to the way the other Asgardians treated him, will probably show that they wouldn't have been much different if he'd been blue, naked and strumming a harp in the courtyard. Seriously. <<
That's true too. I'm not liking their so-called shiny culture much.
>> He didn't conform, therefore he was the butt of the joke, et cetera-- the DEGREE of his nonconformity was the only real secret. <<
Everyone always knew Loki was different, strange, other. They just didn't understand most of why. But the frost giants have no standing in Asgard, so that would've been a huge difference. Odin might have brought him back as a servant, but not a son.
>> And a few of the more HONEST Asgardians would've accepted him as an Other-worthy-of-respect <<
I doubt it. The frost giants are presented as monsters. The chance is not zero, because after all there were white Southerners who helped slaves escape, but it's a very slim chance.
>> IF they'd both recognized him as a CHILD -they didn't tend to, even when THOR was given the same courtesy- and as someone fighting with the tools he used best. <<
Yes, that's a problem.
>> Specifically, Vanaheim fights differently, but they aren't treated with the same level of disdain that Loki was. Why, again and again, is HE the only exception, the only one not worthy of basic consideration? <<
Because he was forced to try fitting into the Asgardian mold, for which Loki is not suited at all well.
>> It smacks of a systematically abusive culture for ALL nonconformity, in some ways. <<
Likely so. Some people write Asgard as sexually lax, others very strict. I lean toward strict because of how they address gender roles.
>> Sif got a /lot/ of crap for wanting to fight with the men, not just be a female warrior, and the two WERE different things. Yet Marvel whitewashed all of that. ONLY Loki is portrayed as Other, even by the Warriors Three. <<
It's not entirely whitewashed, because they did mention it. You can tell from Thor's speech that men tend to take credit for women's accomplishments. Sif still has to correct him -- and this is allegedly her friend.
They're all shitty friends to each other, actually.
>> Tiresome, and in some ways difficult to deal with calmly. <<
Agreed.
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-07 08:40 pm (UTC)Snake? Chains? Dead children?
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-07 10:55 pm (UTC)Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-08 12:02 am (UTC)Slepnir, yes, which implies underage rape, child abuse (two different kids- Slepnir AND Loki), enslavement, animal abuse and MORE.
Re: Define 'worse'
Date: 2014-05-10 04:36 am (UTC)True. I'm keeping Sleipnir, who appeared in the movieverse already, but probably not the others.
>> Slepnir, yes, which implies underage rape, child abuse (two different kids- Slepnir AND Loki), enslavement, animal abuse and MORE. <<
Exactly. Estimating Loki's developmental age around 16 now, my guess would be 12-14 when Sleipnir was conceived.
What. The actual. FUCK. Odin?
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 06:59 pm (UTC)• Loki was left with naught his own thoughts
-> naught but
Thank you!
Date: 2014-05-10 04:42 am (UTC)I'm glad you appreciated this.
>> • Loki was left with naught his own thoughts
-> naught but <<
Fixed, thanks.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-09 05:33 am (UTC)I feel so fucking bad for Loki, honestly. I spend most of the relevant MCU movies wanting to hug him and protect him and beg him *not* to do this (mostly the early stuff in Thor, before he figures out he's a Jotun), and just ... yeah. I kind of find it hilarious that, at least for me, Thor getting smacked in the face with reality and learning some shred of humility is an irritant and a sideline to the shit that Loki is going through in that movie, and Avengers and Thor 2 aren't much better (though Avengers at least benefits from the whole Bruce and Tony thing - they are SO science-boyfriends it isn't even funny).
Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-09 08:36 am (UTC)Ah, poor poor Loki. And poor Frigga too, kinda. When she asks him whether or not she's his mom, I feel really bad. On the one hand, maybe Loki needs to be reminded that she's still the woman who raised him, but on the other it looks like more blaming. -- *You're* rejecting *us* Loki, it's *your fault* not ours. -- :-( I think also that it's more than just lashing out when he replies that she's not. She *isn't* his biological mom as she pretended all those years, and what with his identity crisis and all, that's a pretty big deal to him right now. Except for the fact that he doesn't seem to have seen Laufey as a father-figure for even a second, I don't think Loki is making much headway in defining what family means now his assumptions of biological connections have been shattered.
Loki needs about a thousand hugs. :'(
I like that you didn't follow the movie script exactly, and made Frigga a bit less terrible. Can you give a run-down of all the bad things she said in the movie? I can't remember how awful she got, and was surprised that you said there were *several* lines which were classic for an abusive family.
Aw, hurry up and help Bruce so the Asgardians can come visit! Loki needs love! And like, ONE person who won't manipulate him, lie to him, or stand back and watch while he suffers. Just ONE!
(Kidding about the hurry up part. You take your time. We can wait ages for quality fic.)
Re: Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-09 09:03 am (UTC)That's fine. Some people put it in the subject line, some at the top of the note, others at the bottom. Do what works for you.
>> Ah, poor poor Loki. And poor Frigga too, kinda. <<
Poor Frigga, because she is married to Odin, and if or when she ever realizes how MUCH damage he did to her boys, she's going to hate herself for a while. But Frigga, like Loki, has her blind spots.
>> When she asks him whether or not she's his mom, I feel really bad. <<
Yeah, that's an ouchie spot.
>> On the one hand, maybe Loki needs to be reminded that she's still the woman who raised him, <<
He does. Frigga loves him, and she never stops wanting to help him. It's just that she has her own damage to deal with.
>> but on the other it looks like more blaming. -- *You're* rejecting *us* Loki, it's *your fault* not ours. -- :-( <<
That is typical of dysfunctional families in general, and what happens to the scapegoat in particular.
>> I think also that it's more than just lashing out when he replies that she's not. She *isn't* his biological mom as she pretended all those years, and what with his identity crisis and all, that's a pretty big deal to him right now. <<
That's true too. Loki is violently averse to lies or even polite phrasing at this point. Can't say I blame him.
>> Except for the fact that he doesn't seem to have seen Laufey as a father-figure for even a second, <<
Oh, I think he did. I think Loki has a massive amount of father-hate and that's how he decided to express it. Directly over Odin's unconscious body, which is no accident. All his daddy issues, let me show you them.
>> I don't think Loki is making much headway in defining what family means now his assumptions of biological connections have been shattered. <<
True. The only two people who really care about him -- Thor and Frigga -- have perpetrated a lie and are part of the overall family dysfunction. Loki doesn't seem to have anyone around with an honest, healthy relationship to him. If he had, then he might not have flown off the handle like that.
>> Loki needs about a thousand hugs. :'( <<
Sooth. Once he stops acting like a hysterical porcupine stabbing everyone who tries to get close.
>> I like that you didn't follow the movie script exactly, and made Frigga a bit less terrible. <<
I think you will enjoy where this story ends up, as it suggests more about her. I'm sympathetic to Frigga because I know how living with an abusive person can be soul-wrecking, even if he doesn't hit you. I don't think she'd tolerate that, and I do think she has some leverage over Odin. She can blunt his impact in some ways. He must disguise his abuse of the boys as "discipline" or "training."
>> Can you give a run-down of all the bad things she said in the movie? I can't remember how awful she got, and was surprised that you said there were *several* lines which were classic for an abusive family. <<
http://www.moviequotesandmore.com/thor-the-dark-world-quotes.html
[in present day Asgard, Loki, in shackles, is brought to Odin and Frigga]
Frigga: Loki.
Loki: Hello, mother. Have I made you proud.
Frigga: Please, don't make this worse.
Loki: Define worse.
Odin: Enough! I will speak to the prisoner alone.
[Frigga turns and leaves, as Loki is brought closer to Odin's throne he starts laughing]
http://www.moviequotesandmore.com/thor-the-dark-world-quotes.html
[Fandral and Volstagg return to Asgard with several prisoners, including the masked Algrim; Loki watches them from his cell as they come in]
Loki: Odin continues to bring me new friends. How thoughtful.
Frigga: The books I sent, do they not interest you?
[Loki turns and we see Frigga is in Loki's cell]
Loki: Is that how I'm to wile away eternity, reading?
Frigga: I've done everything in my power to make you comfortable, Loki.
Loki: Have you? Does Odin share your concern? Does Thor? It must be so inconvenient them asking after me day and night.
Frigga: You know full well that your actions have brought you here.
Loki: My actions. I was merely giving truth to the lie that I've been fed my entire life, that I was born to be a king.
Frigga: A king? A true king admits his faults. What of the lives you took on Earth?
Loki: A mere handful compared to the numbers Odin has taken himself.
Frigga: Your father...
Loki: [shouts] He's not my father!
Frigga: Then am I not your mother?
[Loki hesitates for a moment]
Loki: You're not.
[Frigga smiles at him with tears in her eyes]
Frigga: Always so perceptive about everyone but yourself.
[she takes a step towards him and extends her hands, Loki goes to touch her hand but his hand goes through hers and we see that she's a hologram, Loki looks at Frigga with sadness and her hologram disappears]
"Don't make this worse" and "You know full well your actions have brought you here" are the tightest connections, although there are little hooks and jabs throughout. Frigga's lines just really, really sound overall like the wife of an abusive father.
>> Aw, hurry up and help Bruce so the Asgardians can come visit! <<
The big story I'm currently working is the one that puts Bucky back in commission, which also continues tightening the screws for the big Bruce-and-Hulk story to follow.
>> Loki needs love! And like, ONE person who won't manipulate him, lie to him, or stand back and watch while he suffers. Just ONE! <<
He needs more than one, because he needs different things. Honesty, gentleness, firmness, whimsy, acceptance. But also people who have walked through the dark night and come out the other side of it. Each of the Avengers will bring something different to the relationship. Loki is used to shoving away two people who love him. He hasn't got enough hands to shove away an entire team before somebody manages to drip a little sunshine on him.
But don't forget that Loki touched minds with Clint for sure, and could have with anyone else (except Tony, apparently). So he has Clint's memories of Phil.
>> (Kidding about the hurry up part. You take your time. We can wait ages for quality fic.) <<
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Re: Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-09 09:02 pm (UTC)To be completely fair, Thor really doesn't belong on the list of people that have deliberately fucked Loki over.
He did, yes, treat Loki badly as a kid ... but he was a kid himself, and apeing the behaviors of the adults around him.
Likewise ... I don't think Thor had a fucking clue about Loki's true parentage pre-THOR. Especially given his general attitude pre-THOR where Jotuns were involved.
And once he DID find out ... Thor very clearly didn't seem to give much of a shit. Yeah, he did the 'he's adopted' line in Avengers, but that came across as more Thor trying to distance himself from Loki's *behavior* (the killing 80 people in three days - which by the way, I strongly contest, because I think most if not all of them were from the facility collapsing - which Loki had NO CONTROL OVER) and not Loki himself. Thor made it REALLY clear throughout Avengers that if Loki snapped out of the whole 'kill everything and rule the world' thing Loki had going, Thor would quite happily take his brother back.
Re: Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-12 06:11 am (UTC)I agree with you.
Loki, however, has very conflicted feelings about Thor. That's clearly visible in canon. Some of the reasoning is implied, for instance that Thor doesn't always protect Loki from their "friends" teasing him. Other things probably happened too. Loki tends to interpret things in a very dark way right now, because his head is a mess, but it's not altogether baseless.
>> He did, yes, treat Loki badly as a kid ... but he was a kid himself, and apeing the behaviors of the adults around him. <<
True.
>> Likewise ... I don't think Thor had a fucking clue about Loki's true parentage pre-THOR. Especially given his general attitude pre-THOR where Jotuns were involved. <<
I think that Thor may have known that Loki was adopted, because Loki is younger. I don't think Thor knew about Loki being Jotun, because Thor wears his heart on his sleeve and could not keep that kind of secret.
>> And once he DID find out ... Thor very clearly didn't seem to give much of a shit. <<
Interestingly enough, that's true. Thor only complains about Loki's behavior not his race. In fact Thor and Frigga are probably the only people who make a distinction between behaving badly and being a bad person.
>> Yeah, he did the 'he's adopted' line in Avengers, but that came across as more Thor trying to distance himself from Loki's *behavior* <<
I do hold Thor at fault for that, because it was a vicious thing to say, and I think it follows a pattern of casual undermining of their relationship. Thor keeps reaching out, and Loki doesn't believe he means it. So that means Thor has been unintentionally doing things to make Loki doubt his sincerity. What Thor says and what Loki hears are not necessarily the same things. Just because Thor doesn't mean it that way, doesn't keep it from hurting.
>> (the killing 80 people in three days - which by the way, I strongly contest, because I think most if not all of them were from the facility collapsing - which Loki had NO CONTROL OVER) and not Loki himself. <<
Good point about the building collapse.
>> Thor made it REALLY clear throughout Avengers that if Loki snapped out of the whole 'kill everything and rule the world' thing Loki had going, Thor would quite happily take his brother back. <<
On the one hand, that makes sense and shows loyalty. On the other, it's conditional love. After the way Odin has treated Loki, it stands to reason that Loki believes he can never be good enough, that all promises are lies. That's why Loki tried to commit suicide. Thor doesn't have the stability or the power to give Loki what he needs.
Re: Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-13 09:26 am (UTC)I'm not so sure about that. There is never ONCE any indication of Loki's adopted status from Thor. Granted, this could just be because Thor doesn't give a shit, but Thor also has that tendency to put his foot in his mouth, and I think if he knew, he'dve said/done something dumb regarding the issue.
>> I do hold Thor at fault for that, because it was a vicious thing to say, <<
No argument from me on it being bad. It just didn't come across as a deliberate rejection of Loki himself, just what he was *doing*
>> On the one hand, that makes sense and shows loyalty. On the other, it's conditional love. <<
And that's why I said it's not *deliberate* on Thor's part. A lot of what Thor is doing is because he doesn't have any better example of how to behave. Yeah, he was exposed to Jane, Darcy, and Erik but that was what, two days? Three at the most? And it wasn't really any sort of parental/sibling relationship going on there for him to take note of.
So Thor screws up, and does/says the wrong things, but he's not doing it on purpose.
Re: Ace-fan from AO3
Date: 2014-05-14 06:34 am (UTC)I'm not certain of it. I just think it's likely because canon presents Thor as older, so he would have been the equivalent of a toddler when Loki arrived and not in the usual manner. But that doesn't mean it's something Thor thinks about. He was young enough that he might simply have accepted "You have a new baby brother," without caring about why or how.
>> No argument from me on it being bad. It just didn't come across as a deliberate rejection of Loki himself, just what he was *doing* <<
I don't think Thor meant it to hurt. Trouble is, he rarely means it but it keeps happening.
>> And that's why I said it's not *deliberate* on Thor's part. A lot of what Thor is doing is because he doesn't have any better example of how to behave. <<
Exactly. He grew up in a crappy environment, as much the gilded cage as Tony's, and it's left him a lot of bad habits.
>> Yeah, he was exposed to Jane, Darcy, and Erik but that was what, two days? Three at the most? <<
They certainly made a deep impact on Thor, but the breadth would be limited. There's only so much you can cover in a few days, especially if you're not adept at bending time.
>> And it wasn't really any sort of parental/sibling relationship going on there for him to take note of. <<
That's a telling lack. You can't copy what you haven't seen. In fact the closest things to sibling relationships that Thor saw on Midgard were Clint & Natasha (except Clint was out of his head most of the time) and Bruce & Hulk (then in worse shape than Thor and Loki).
>> So Thor screws up, and does/says the wrong things, but he's not doing it on purpose. <<
It's going to be hard for him to unlearn all of that.