ysabetwordsmith | Story: "Hairpins" Part 27

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Story: "Hairpins" Part 27

This story belongs to the series Love Is For Children which includes "Love Is for Children," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys,""Saudades," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," "Birthday Girl," "No Winter Lasts Forever," "Hide and Seek," "Kernel Error," "Happy Hour," and "Green Eggs and Hulk."

Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, JARVIS, Clint Barton, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanova, Bruce Banner.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: This story is mostly fluff, but it has some intense scenes in the middle. Highlight for details. These include dubious consent as Phil and JARVIS discuss what really happened when Agent Coulson hacked his way into Stark Tower, over which Phil has something between a flashback and a panic attack. They also discuss some of the bad things that have happened to Avengers in the past, including various flavors of abuse. If these are sensitive topics for you, please think carefully before deciding whether to read onward.
Summary: Uncle Phil needs to pick out pajamas for game night. He gets help from an unexpected direction.
Notes: Service. Shopping. Gifts. Artificial intelligence. Computers. Teamwork. Team as family. Friendship. Communication. Hope. Apologies. Forgiveness. Nonsexual ageplay. Nonsexual intimacy. Love. Tony Stark needs a hug. Bruce Banner needs a hug. #coulsonlives.

Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26. Skip to Part 28, Part 29, Part 30.

"Hairpins" Part 27

At first Phil had intended to stabilize game night with Clint and Natasha, whom he knew well enough try new things without risking the relationship. Rocky though life had gotten over the last several months, they had a solid foundation of trust on which he could build. With the other Avengers, Phil didn't have that yet, and their various backgrounds made it difficult to create a connection. Their reliance on him, as on each other, was still tentative and fragile.

Tony asking to join, and then bringing Bruce, had complicated matters before Phil quite felt prepared to level up the exercise. It had worked out beautifully so far, though, with only a few minor wobbles. Already they were growing closer. Phil was grateful for that progress.

That left just one more Avenger.

Phil sighed. He felt conflicted about that. He'd grown up admiring Captain America, and learned everything possible about him. Beyond the public image, he later delved into the classified details. Phil knew far less about Steve Rogers as a private individual, though. Not much had been recorded prior to Project Rebirth, just some bare-bones biographical data. Phil yearned to know more. He wanted to reach out and help when Steve was so obviously hurting, flung out of time into an unfamiliar and lonely life. But he wasn't sure what would really help, and what would just make matters worse.

Phil had always hoped that SHIELD and Stark Industries would find Captain America, but never really imagined getting to meet him in person. That had left Phil with all his mental defenses down. As a result, the initial encounter had been painfully awkward for both of them. Now they needed to move past that, somehow, in order to work together as a team.

"Hope," Phil murmured. He opened a fresh page on the Starkpad, tapping the Intelligent Search square. "This time, I don't want to get caught off guard."

"May I be of assistance?" JARVIS offered.

"Yes, please," Phil said, smiling. He had suspected that command would ping JARVIS for attention. The formality of the phrasing reminded Phil how easily JARVIS could hide in plain sight, pretending to be an ordinary program. "I want to find pajamas for Steve, just in case."

The search page scrolled to the side, making space to display Steve's measurements. Phil flicked his fingers across the body map the way he'd seen Tony do. The model spun in place to give him a back view of Steve's impressive shoulders. From the look of things, standard measurements wouldn't account for some of the places where Steve carried his bulk.

"That must make fitting shirts a challenge," Phil said. No wonder Steve wandered around in things that stretched taut over his muscles. It couldn't be very comfortable.

The screen brought up examples of Steve's clothing purchases. "Sir has attempted to direct tower residents toward several reliable tailors," JARVIS said. "Unfortunately Steve seems reluctant to avail himself of such services, or indeed, to make any noncritical purchases at all."

Steve had grown up poor, then joined the army, neither of which gave him much opportunity to learn what fit him or what he liked. SHIELD had provided Steve with living space, but it was a hovel. Phil felt outraged on his behalf. It's lucky that Tony managed to convince Steve to move into the tower, Phil thought. Getting Steve to take advantage of expanded resources ... might take more work.

* * *

Notes:

The nature of trust is that it entails a leap of faith, which enables people to take greater risks with each other. Trusting more leads to higher benefits, particularly in collaborative projects.

Self-awareness includes a distinction between public self and private self. Different parts of the personality are known to self and others. This can affect relationships. It's important to know your true self. While Steve doesn't like to make a spectacle of himself, he is quite consistent between public and private life. But Phil doesn't want to risk stepping on hidden emotional landmines, because he knows that people can be very different in public and in private.

Loneliness is a feeling of dearth when someone wants more companionship and/or intimacy than they have. It can affect heroes and other famous people, because fame has drawbacks. Steve feels lonely because he's lost everyone he knew, which hurts so much that it's taking him for him to heal enough even to try reaching out to new people. Fury really cut his legs out from under him. Loneliness is a widespread problem today. There are ways to overcome it.

Mental defenses can be used in positive or negative ways. This helps people resist persuasion and reframe negative thoughts. In The Avengers we saw Phil, who is normally calm and competent, quietly but thoroughly drop his brain at Steve's feet when they first met. It has taken a while for Phil to get himself back into working order. If he can't say no to Steve, that's not good for either of them -- but there's always going to be a soft spot there, because Phil grew himself around the ideal of Captain America.

Choosing clothes that look good depends on body type. There are guides for such things as t-shirts and suits. This project thoughtfully uses customized t-shirt sizes to accommodate different body shapes. In the movies, Steve often appears in clothes that are too small, because that makes him look bigger. In the context of this series, he does it because he doesn't know any better -- he has body dysphoria, he's not used to having enough money to buy things, and he won't ask for help this early. He's never really learned to pick for fit, fashion, and personal expression because it wasn't an option. That gets better in time.

[To be continued in Part 28 ...]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

OH, yes, another lovely post!

Phil and Jarvis are working * together * now, fully equal and bringing their A game to --

picking out a pair of jammies.

I can definitely see Tony casually mentioning, "Hey, my tailor's exclusive, you guys will keep him from being bored," rather than the more practical, and personal, reasons that some of the others would have to actually seek out a tailor. Black Widow has some pretty specific needs for her range of movement, Steve and Thor both make off-the-rack look like straitjackets, for example.

Tony wouldn't see how someone could be uncomfortable with THINGS instead of WORDS-- think about how much of his past experiences involve the other person throwing presents or hobbies at him instead of actually TALKING with him. It's completely plausible that he has to stop and parse out the differences between why Bruce, Steve and Clint each seem to just pick whatever's handy instead of going for a more personalized (often of necessity, also tailored) wardrobe. "They grew up with way less money than I did," is barely the tip of that particular iceberg.

Despite the small details of the scene, and its brevity, I /feel/ the dynamic between Phil and Jarvis is much easier, much more solid on both sides. Phil is definitely more relaxed and has dealt with most of the worry about Jarvis, and Phil's own lingering guilt and shame.

It also seems like the story is getting ready to wrap, sadly. The only thing that keeps that idea from being TERRIBLE, is, of course, that as soon as it ends, I can click the first chapter and re-read straight THROUGH.

Thanks for posting this. Next chapter on Wednesday?

>> OH, yes, another lovely post! <<

Thank you!

>> Phil and Jarvis are working * together * now, fully equal and bringing their A game to --

picking out a pair of jammies. <<

*laugh* Yes, it's ironic for them to start with something so prosaic, and yet the symbolism is really important. These jammmies both need and deserve the A game.

>> I can definitely see Tony casually mentioning, "Hey, my tailor's exclusive, you guys will keep him from being bored," rather than the more practical, and personal, reasons that some of the others would have to actually seek out a tailor. <<

Yes, that's true. But especially this early, it's going to sound like Tony trying to buy affection or just being profligate with money. That's uncomfortable for Clint (who is already traumatized and barely functional), panic-inducing for Bruce (who is barely managing to stay instead of fleeing), and disgusting to Steve (who hates conspicuous consumption and doesn't think he needs special stuff). It's hard for them to parse it as Tony taking care of them. The more they resist, the more things he throws at them in desperation hoping something will work -- and that's probably a key reason why they wound up hiding from each other.

>> Black Widow has some pretty specific needs for her range of movement, Steve and Thor both make off-the-rack look like straitjackets, for example. <<

Yes, that's true. *ponder* I would bet that Natasha is still using whomever Pepper told Natalie about, because they were obviously girltalking. At this stage, Steve is a long way from being ready to shop sensibly.

>> Tony wouldn't see how someone could be uncomfortable with THINGS instead of WORDS-- think about how much of his past experiences involve the other person throwing presents or hobbies at him instead of actually TALKING with him. <<

Yes, exactly. To Tony, things are Safe. Things can't hurt you unless you hurt yourself with them or somebody else uses them against you. They won't yell at you. To Bruce, Steve, and Clint things are argument starters or unreliable variables. You use what you have, but you don't necessarily trust it. Bruce is just frigging indifferent, look at the way he treats his glasses, his clothes, he built lab equipment out of junk and didn't care. He has allll the attachment problems. But at least Lab Is Safe to him, as much as anything can be. Clint feels safe up high, probably doesn't trust anything but his bow and maybe a few other personal weapons. Steve is used to not having things or else they break because they can't stand up to him. Then he feels like crap. So they often balk when Tony want to give them things, which hurts Tony a lot more than he admits, which makes him want to try giving them something different because he's desperate for these people to like him, and by the end of the week they're all hiding in their rooms.

>> It's completely plausible that he has to stop and parse out the differences between why Bruce, Steve and Clint each seem to just pick whatever's handy instead of going for a more personalized (often of necessity, also tailored) wardrobe. <<

That takes a lot of time. You can see it unfolding through the series.

>> "They grew up with way less money than I did," is barely the tip of that particular iceberg. <<

Painfully true.

>> Despite the small details of the scene, and its brevity, I feel the dynamic between Phil and Jarvis is much easier, much more solid on both sides. <<

Yay! I'm glad it worked. You'll get to see more of this as they play out the selection.

>> Phil is definitely more relaxed and has dealt with most of the worry about Jarvis, and Phil's own lingering guilt and shame. <<

Yes. Phil is relatively tranquil by nature. It takes a fair bit to rattle him, and he returns to center quickly most of the time. He's like Steve, that way.

>> It also seems like the story is getting ready to wrap, sadly. <<

I think there are three chapters left after this one.

>> The only thing that keeps that idea from being TERRIBLE, is, of course, that as soon as it ends, I can click the first chapter and re-read straight THROUGH. <<

Hee! And of course, there will be more goodies to follow.

>> Thanks for posting this. Next chapter on Wednesday? <<

You're welcome. Yes, Wednesday is the plan.

Steve doesn't understand this modern world well enough to know what kinds of clothing he needs. SHIELD has given him wacky messages. He's figured out men don't wear hats. Parsing the communication of clothing without any context; every piece of knowledge he holds may sabotage him. Lots of what we in the 21st century know about men's clothing dates to the Korean War and since.

>> Steve doesn't understand this modern world well enough to know what kinds of clothing he needs. <<

That may be part of it. However, I think that Steve feels comfortable dressing a certain way. He shouldn't have to change that just to please other people. Tony can be a dick teasing about "old fashioned" clothes but there are in fact people who still dress that way, and it's perfectly okay. Ideally, Steve should have information about modern clothing styles, and a little friendly coaching, so that he can make an informed choice.

>> SHIELD has given him wacky messages. <<

SHIELD has given him a few garments that don't fit and probably zero information. Part of that is barefaced manipulation. Part is because, when you have 70 years of data to catch up, you cover the most critical stuff first and clothing is not it. That's way behind things like "Don't say 'n*gg*r' and don't touch women you don't know, or somebody will mace you."

>> He's figured out men don't wear hats. <<

Most don't. I'm amused that Erik Lehnsherr often wears a hat even when he doesn't have the helmet on. I swear, I wanted to turn the felt one over to see if it was lined with foil.

>> Parsing the communication of clothing without any context; every piece of knowledge he holds may sabotage him. Lots of what we in the 21st century know about men's clothing dates to the Korean War and since. <<

Yes, that's an issue.

Erik is old enough to not count in that not hat wearing, having lived through the time Steve was on ice.

The clothes they gave him constitute a message, which I parse as "someone at SHIELD doesn't know the difference between "The Waltons" and Brooklyn and "I'm too Sexy for My Shirt is someone's pool pick for Karaoke Song Steve will sing.

>> Erik is old enough to not count in that not hat wearing, having lived through the time Steve was on ice. <<

There are always exceptions, though, and it's important to remember them.

>> The clothes they gave him constitute a message, which I parse as "someone at SHIELD doesn't know the difference between "The Waltons" and Brooklyn and "I'm too Sexy for My Shirt is someone's pool pick for Karaoke Song Steve will sing. <<

*laugh* Yeah.

admittedly I didn't explore hats and Steve post war with my two AUs with limited to no freezer burn. In one he's active duty until Robert Kennedy lets him retire, in another he's wearing a couple of children so much of the time.

Edited 2014-04-24 03:48 (UTC)

And in Avengers I think someone at SHIELD doesn't know how to use a size chart.

Oh, they know how to use one, know how to tailor, even-- look at Fury's coat. Either there were two leather dusters, one with adjustments for hidden weapon holsters and one without, or they simply tailored all of the necessary copies to fit.

Yet Steve and Thor are both stuffed into clothing so tight I could almost guess their religion? It's sexualization, but for male clothing instead of the low-cut stuff for women.

I've wrote about the over-inscribing of masculinity in several of my LEGO posts.

Steve would be a test case of the cuts of teeshirts. The Avengers had a lot of ass-cam work.

>> I've wrote about the over-inscribing of masculinity in several of my LEGO posts. <<

One thing I like about Steve, though, is that he has a nurturing side as well as a fighting side. So does Sam. Bruce-and-Hulk are divided but cover the same ground. And it's the hypermasculinity that gave me the idea of Hulk as animus for "Two Spirits, One Past."

>> Steve would be a test case of the cuts of teeshirts. The Avengers had a lot of ass-cam work. <<

What he really needs is something like this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1399375262/threadmasontm-the-perfect-fitting-t-shirt

Steve and Sam are secure, so they don't need to over-inscribe. They can grab skills as they see need for them.

And it was WWII that started men's sizing, though it's been expanded. There was a bad period when the low price point no longer ran large enough (Japan didn't think XL should be as much bigger than L as it took to get a long torso covered.)

>> Steve and Sam are secure, so they don't need to over-inscribe. They can grab skills as they see need for them. <<

Yes, exactly. That's one reason why I write Steve occasionally doing girl things and not minding it. So he can cook, sew, clean, etc. It was work that he could do even when he was small and frail. He always felt like a man inside, and that was enough for him, unless somebody was trying to treat him as less. Then he got plucky about it.

>> And it was WWII that started men's sizing, though it's been expanded. There was a bad period when the low price point no longer ran large enough (Japan didn't think XL should be as much bigger than L as it took to get a long torso covered.) <<

It's good that sizing is better now. If you look hard enough, you can find places that are very precise. I'm sure the Avengers will get Steve there eventually.

Do not anger the bantam, he has spurs and is light enough to get some hang time.

Part of the reason knitwear is so prevalent is because once you've got knitting machines of the right type, you can fudge in a way woven goods will not take.

>> Do not anger the bantam, he has spurs and is light enough to get some hang time. <<

*laugh* So very true. Steve is a cool-headed and oddly gentle fighter, as long as you're only attacking him. But hit the person next to him and you get a shield right in the teeth.

>> Part of the reason knitwear is so prevalent is because once you've got knitting machines of the right type, you can fudge in a way woven goods will not take. <<

I think that's why Bruce likes knitwear too.

>> Oh, they know how to use one, know how to tailor, even-- look at Fury's coat. Either there were two leather dusters, one with adjustments for hidden weapon holsters and one without, or they simply tailored all of the necessary copies to fit. <<

Natasha would also need customized clothing, and hers fits like a glove, weapons and all.

>> Yet Steve and Thor are both stuffed into clothing so tight I could almost guess their religion? It's sexualization, but for male clothing instead of the low-cut stuff for women. <<

That's one aspect, for the movie. Another is that, as fitting charts warn, wearing clothes that are too small will make you look bigger; Steve and Thor were meant to look huge.

Within the story context, it's not easy to get stuff for big-and-tall men. It's plausible that they simply put Steve in the biggest clothes they had in stock at SHIELD, and he wouldn't have asked for special treatment or gone shopping for clothes when what he had was marginally adequate.

"These measurements, they are not possible."

Well, when you get past a certain point the extra larging is assuming that there is gut involved in the equation. Steve's tshirts would look like the largest 'babydoll' to skim his washboard and not cause a riot in frozen foods.

(There is a fic with a funny scene, when Tony realizes that the Avengers are supposed to meet and greet and of course none of the men have tuxedos. He doesn't have Thor with him. The tailor nearly faints seeing Steve given the turn around time. Tries to believe there is an error about Thor's measurement. Is shown a picture using Steve as scale.)

>> "These measurements, they are not possible." <<

Yeah, I have that problem trying to fit my tits into petite tops. It's like they think short women have no curves. By the time I can button the front, the sleeves are usually hanging off my hands. It's maddening. This is why most of my clothes are knit fabrics.

>> Well, when you get past a certain point the extra larging is assuming that there is gut involved in the equation. <<

One problem is that simple sizes tend to scale straight up. But people's bodies don't do that, even before accounting for different proportions within a certain area of the garment.

>> Steve's tshirts would look like the largest 'babydoll' to skim his washboard and not cause a riot in frozen foods. <<

I think he does like a closer fit, compared with Bruce who prefers clothing baggy enough to hide in. Steve would be so much happier if he'd let Tony take him to a tailor, because Tony likes fitted clothes too. But Steve is just now starting to get the hang of shopping as a community service. It's still going to take a little while for him to warm up to the idea of buying nice things, not just because he can afford them, but to help out the creative folks who make a living that way. He's done it with birthday cards, but clothing is a much bigger purchase.

>> (There is a fic with a funny scene, when Tony realizes that the Avengers are supposed to meet and greet and of course none of the men have tuxedos. He doesn't have Thor with him. The tailor nearly faints seeing Steve given the turn around time. Tries to believe there is an error about Thor's measurement. Is shown a picture using Steve as scale.) <<

*laugh* I would love to see that. I want to get Hulk to Tony's tailor eventually, because that will be a lot easier than dragging Bruce there.

Women's clothing never has been effectively standardized--at first because it was assumed that women that wanted a good fit weren't buying off the rack, then because women that cared would re-tailor/have things retailored or would move up the price point.

I have short arms and small hands. There are women's jeans I can just fit my hands in. That's too small. I sometimes have problems with sleeves being too short (which might be 3/4 sleeves that are 'almost' full length on me)

Steve lived years condemned to swimming in his clothes, because he was wearing things meant for larger men. He got used to moving about in his uniform (and someone was sewing and not just because of armor.)

Bruce probably was held responsible for keeping his bruises hidden. If your fingers are the only thing poking out of the sleeves...

>> Women's clothing never has been effectively standardized--at first because it was assumed that women that wanted a good fit weren't buying off the rack, then because women that cared would re-tailor/have things retailored or would move up the price point. <<

Yeah, that's a problem. Garments should all just come with their linear measurements on the tags, the way men's pants do.

>> I have short arms and small hands. There are women's jeans I can just fit my hands in. That's too small. I sometimes have problems with sleeves being too short (which might be 3/4 sleeves that are 'almost' full length on me) <<

That sucks.

>> Steve lived years condemned to swimming in his clothes, because he was wearing things meant for larger men. He got used to moving about in his uniform (and someone was sewing and not just because of armor.) <<

Maybe he likes things snug because he can get them that way now, and he likes the difference.

>> Bruce probably was held responsible for keeping his bruises hidden. If your fingers are the only thing poking out of the sleeves... <<

Agreed. Also he feels like the clothing is armor. Post-accident it has a better chance of surviving an incident if it's big on Bruce, then stretches so it might not all rip off of Hulk.

But that would let the air out of the Procrustean bed of women's clothing and destabilize the entire industry telling women they need to buy *this* to feel good.

I'm waiting for that plaid shirt to split some day. Though I suppose it's not as tight as the tees, because wardrobe wouldn't want it to split on set.

Or be a handy fig leaf.

>> But that would let the air out of the Procrustean bed of women's clothing and destabilize the entire industry telling women they need to buy *this* to feel good. <<

That's the idea, yes. Kill it with icepicks.

>> I'm waiting for that plaid shirt to split some day. Though I suppose it's not as tight as the tees, because wardrobe wouldn't want it to split on set. <<

*laugh* But it would be so awesome to see somebody other than Bruce split his clothes. I think they both look good in plaid.

>> Or be a handy fig leaf. <<

If nothing else, yes.

With a net increase in height of about Steve, no shirt is still going to be a shirt.

Steve ripping out a shirt might make Johnny ignite in mirth.

*laugh* Now that would be fun to see.

Susan would find it hilarious.

I've been in big-and-tall men's stores, and I don't think that it's a writing issue so much as that Steve is, as the internet has noted, a Dorito--his shoulders are HUGE compared to the rest of him. Most men are very rectangular, so most men's clothes are rectangular. Having disproportionate shoulders means he just won't fit in most things, even at bigger sizes. They may have played it up for effect, but that's not a body shape that CAN be accommodated without tailoring.

It depends on the clothing line. Some have a lot of options where there are different features to suit different body shapes. Others are all the same.

So to solve the problem, first you have to care about it (which Steve probably does not) and then you have to know various ways to solve it (which Steve probably doesn't either) such as shopping different lines or hiring a tailor.

Now if Tony wants to take Steve to a posh event and have him look good it'll be, "Here's your ticket for the tailor; you take his word on fit and he will take your word on colors, that's the deal. Just go down to the garage and Happy will take you there and back again."

I wonder if it might help if Phil said 'you know, you'll get less wear and tear on a shirt that fits--you're less likely to rip it'. That would appeal to him.

I agree, that would probably work. And I bet Steve ripped more than one tight shirt.

I think SHIELD has people who know that, but keeps them away from Steve. It's not an accident. Fury shoved that boy in the dark and fed him bullshit, and expected to get mushrooms. He's lucky that he didn't get a fist in the face.

Steve was in such a target rich environment he was making people take numbers.

*laugh*

"If I have not yet gotten around to breaking your face for ruining my life, please take a number and wait patiently. I will get to you as soon as possible. And no fair trying to take over the world to get my attention sooner. That line goes around the block too."

LOL, really. That line does go around the block! :-)

Johnny Storm smacks his forehead. "Reed, you've got to talk to Doom!"

Johnny goes to call his sponsors to up his fees. He is not going uncompensated for being used as a doppleganger.

*laugh*

Yeah, I am so playing Reed-Sue-Victor as a messed up love triangle. It's something I want to touch on later in the storyline. With the Avengers in better working order, they impact the other supers in New York differently than in canon, and the idea of relationship work sort of starts ... spreading.

Johnny is just. "Look, she's my sister, but she's a catch. So the idea that Doom was moon-eyed over Reed? and thought Susan was a way... No, no, no. You don't do that."

Ben grumbles, hating that Johnny has said something he agrees with.

Yes, exactly. Victor and Reed were like high school boys who really-really liked each other, but didn't understand what to do about that, so it all went horribly wrong. I've seen that play out, in school; it's why I wrote up Antimatter and Stalwart Stan.

But suddenly this gets me thinking, remember the jock-turned-soldier who used to pick on Reed, and even in the movie they still hated each other? That's one of the guys Victor killed. Maybe that wasn't just a random villain move against someone in his way. Maybe it was a really sick love-note: "Hi Reed, can't stop for chums because I'm busy taking over the world, but remember that guy who used to give you a swirly every day after gym? I made him not a problem anymore."

I didn't notice much detail about that soldier. Didn't bother with the special features that time.

Just when did Reed and Ben become whatever one should call their dynamic?

>> I didn't notice much detail about that soldier. Didn't bother with the special features that time. <<

I think the scenes I remember are from the main movie. There's one where the soldier and Reed are arguing and they both reference some unpleasant school interactions: classic jock-nerd hatred. And then later Victor shoots the jock.

>> Just when did Reed and Ben become whatever one should call their dynamic? <<

I'm not sure. I think they're very loyal friends though.

I'm not sure. I think they're very loyal friends though.

Agreed. It's very sweet and pretty rarely deplicited.

Re the soldier:I thought that was 'caste' conflict, not personal antagonism. Different nerds, different jocks, same bullying.

Over on another of Ysabetwordsmith's posts, we got rather derailed, talking about how certain kinds of spying and subterfuge tend to come out of growing up in a disadvantaged group, like a gay or black person does.

It got me thinking about Coulson in particular, as in canon he's supposed to have served with Nick Fury in the Marine Corps. Nick Fury displays the same basic personality as every Marine I've ever known: direct, aggressive when they feel threatened or less than secure in a situation, and proud of physical skills over mental ones.

Phil is far more balanced in his emotions, skills and the values he places on others' skills. Why?

What if he’s just growing UP with someone who is a part of an oppressed group? It would explain his gentleness with the team when they act in ways which seem much younger than their physical age, especially. Given his protectiveness, what if he is the YOUNGER sibling in a family of two, the older of which has some kind of pervasive delay, or congenital health problem that made the sibling a constant target for the local idiots? Unlike Steve, it would probably have been something that prevented the sibling from retaliating directly.

>> Over on another of Ysabetwordsmith's posts, we got rather derailed, talking about how certain kinds of spying and subterfuge tend to come out of growing up in a disadvantaged group, like a gay or black person does. <<

Yes ...

>> It got me thinking about Coulson in particular, as in canon he's supposed to have served with Nick Fury in the Marine Corps. Nick Fury displays the same basic personality as every Marine I've ever known: direct, aggressive when they feel threatened or less than secure in a situation, and proud of physical skills over mental ones. <<

This got me wondering how Coulson would get into the Marines in the first place. It seems the least likely service. But take a closer look, and that's the one focused not just on muscle but on WILL -- which is his strong suit. It does, however, get you a somewhat different kind of Marine.

>> Phil is far more balanced in his emotions, skills and the values he places on others' skills. Why? <<

He's learned to protect people and de-escalate violence, so long ago that it's second nature to him now.

>> What if he’s just growing UP with someone who is a part of an oppressed group? It would explain his gentleness with the team when they act in ways which seem much younger than their physical age, especially. <<

I've been thinking for some time about how he behaves in this series. He's a little bit parentified, but it's the good kind -- clearly he had a lot of responsibility very young, learned incredible competence, and knows how to love deeply. But he's also inclined to short himself in favor of others, and he's sensitive about being ignored. There's a pattern there ...

>> Given his protectiveness, what if he is the YOUNGER sibling in a family of two, the older of which has some kind of pervasive delay, or congenital health problem that made the sibling a constant target for the local idiots? Unlike Steve, it would probably have been something that prevented the sibling from retaliating directly. <<

... and it fits this beautifully. What I came up with is that Phil's father was killed in a car crash, leaving behind Phil and his mother, and an older sister whose injuries left her handicapped. Single mother, handicapped sister, and a small nerdy boy; that's a recipe for learning to think outside the box.

I got a whole story about this, "Little and Broken, but Still Good," which will post later since we just did a Phil-centered story. So thanks.

This is skeptic7. I love in the first story, that Coulson is prepared for Steve's entry with clothes and all. I am surprised that SHIELD didn't send Steve out with a personal shopper, someone who would explain clothes as camoflauge. This is how to dress older, this is how to dress younger, this is what a working class man in his 20's would wear, this is what a young professional wears to work. This is clothes for a night club with a young affluent audience. This is what college age wear at college, at leisure at parties. Don't try to figure out what high schoolers wear. Now if you wanted to look like a pervert .... This is what to wear to look like FBI, really its fun to let them catch the blame for everything.
this wouldn't get anywhere near dressing to express yourself, but it would keep Steve from being as lost and they have experts in this available, well they did have experts before the Alien attack on New York. Natasha knows all about clothes as costume to fit in a particular group.

Your idea shows that SHIELD values Steve as an ASSET, not just as muscle.

Sadly, I don't think enough of the individual agents were allowed to spend time with Steve while he was awake and could make at least tentative friendships. Right now, he's relying more on the visual cues: SHIELD uniform, likely to be trustworthy, US armed forces, likely to be trustworthy... what the HECK is she wearing, and why is her hair both fuscia and lemon yellow?

None of those things make someone inherently more or less trustworthy, and because SHIELD hasn't really put any effort into helping Steve socialize (that we've seen), it implies to me at least that they really don't care if he settles in properly, just whether he'll follow the orders he's given.

Edited (typo) 2014-04-21 20:36 (UTC)

Integrating Steve, repatriating Steve isn't their goal. They think they've gotten their Weapon back from the ice. He'll have a harder time slipping his leash if he can't blend in.

What we do see results from him being kept so close, he has a subtle knowledge of what is and isn't normal for SHIELD. He is primed to observe from only seeing a subset. He's learned some things just from being out and about; he knows that white men can slouch about, wear ball caps and even a big slab like himself disappears. He'd have had a harder time doing that in the late 1940s, without finding a bunch of college boys to hide among (you know, men properly fed since childhood).

Steve is very bad at following orders once he has reason to question them. He's part cat.

>> Integrating Steve, repatriating Steve isn't their goal. They think they've gotten their Weapon back from the ice. He'll have a harder time slipping his leash if he can't blend in. <<

I agree. But Steve was never intended as a weapon. The army just looked at that project and saw what they wanted to see, and SHIELD made the same mistake. *chuckle* Except for Phil, he knew exactly what he was looking at.

>> What we do see results from him being kept so close, he has a subtle knowledge of what is and isn't normal for SHIELD. He is primed to observe from only seeing a subset. <<

That's true, and it helped him in The Winter Soldier when he needed to distinguish friend from foe.

>> He's learned some things just from being out and about; he knows that white men can slouch about, wear ball caps and even a big slab like himself disappears. He'd have had a harder time doing that in the late 1940s, without finding a bunch of college boys to hide among (you know, men properly fed since childhood). <<

Good point.

>> Steve is very bad at following orders once he has reason to question them. He's part cat. <<

*laugh* It's funny how people don't see that coming.

He doesn't look like he should be part cat.

*Tony calls out for a really large paper bag to test this*

"We ordered a soldier."

Um, yeah, about that.

"Captain Rogers." How Col. Phillips reduced the number of orders Steve questioned.

>> He doesn't look like he should be part cat.

*Tony calls out for a really large paper bag to test this* <<

Betty would go for laser pointer.

>> "We ordered a soldier."

Um, yeah, about that. <<

Fortunately for them, Steve really is polyoptimized and can do that too. But he's never going to be quite as mindless as some people think.

>> "Captain Rogers." How Col. Phillips reduced the number of orders Steve questioned. <<

Heh, yeah. That'll do.

"I figure this way, about the only brass crazy enough to try giving him orders will be me. Majors will stay with their troops and generals have got more to do than stop Rogers from something that'll look good in the press if it's not too secret."

ping pong ball gun.

"I got him to run part way up the wall."

Betty is going to Troll Tony by having physics equations screen printed on Steve's tshirts.

Michelle Obama:Talk about STEAM.

Actually it's Phil who puts Steve in a fractal t-shirt, although that may be partly inspired by Betty teaching Steve higher math.

>> Your idea shows that SHIELD values Steve as an ASSET, not just as muscle. <<

If only. Phil does; SHIELD, not so much.

>> Sadly, I don't think enough of the individual agents were allowed to spend time with Steve while he was awake and could make at least tentative friendships. <<

I agree. He was deliberately isolated -- which is a tactic used in abuse and torture.

>> Right now, he's relying more on the visual cues: SHIELD uniform, likely to be trustworthy, US armed forces, likely to be trustworthy... what the HECK is she wearing, and why is her hair both fuscia and lemon yellow? <<

That makes sense.

>> None of those things make someone inherently more or less trustworthy, and because SHIELD hasn't really put any effort into helping Steve socialize (that we've seen), it implies to me at least that they really don't care if he settles in properly, just whether he'll follow the orders he's given. <<

Exactly. He's just a tool to most of them.

I don't like monolithic anything, so I've laid in some other bit characters at SHIELD who are more sympathetic and helpful. But in canon, it's rough.

>> I love in the first story, that Coulson is prepared for Steve's entry with clothes and all. <<

Yes. Steve isn't the first strayling that Phil has picked up. He knows to check for things like whether the person has personal supplies. Game night is more than just play -- it subtly trains people to accept things that he gives them.

>> I am surprised that SHIELD didn't send Steve out with a personal shopper, someone who would explain clothes as camoflauge. This is how to dress older, this is how to dress younger, this is what a working class man in his 20's would wear, this is what a young professional wears to work. This is clothes for a night club with a young affluent audience. This is what college age wear at college, at leisure at parties. Don't try to figure out what high schoolers wear. Now if you wanted to look like a pervert .... <<

That's what they would have done if they wanted to empower Steve, help him fit in, and start the recovery process. Instead they acted out of control, and it went badly for everyone.

>> This is what to wear to look like FBI, really its fun to let them catch the blame for everything. <<

*laugh* Yeah.

>> this wouldn't get anywhere near dressing to express yourself, but it would keep Steve from being as lost and they have experts in this available, well they did have experts before the Alien attack on New York. <<

It would have been nicer.

>> Natasha knows all about clothes as costume to fit in a particular group. <<

Primarily for women, not much help to Steve.

On the other hoof, I think he knows more about dress mode than most people give him credit for. If he really needed it ... well, he spent months on a stage tour. Theatre people are theatre people. That's more than enough time to get him acculturated even if he never learned to dance worth a damn. But he won't necessarily show the cards he's holding until he needs them.

But he needs to observe to restock the mental hangers. The suit he would have looked to purchase if the Howlers didn't drink all his pay, would have little use in our day.

"Rosie, no tripping him."

"Sally, it's, he's, did you see him?"

"I saw a woman, and she will know, and there will never be a body found."

"Aw!"

This thread makes me want to see a "Steve Rogers, Master of Disguise" AU. :-)

Best done as a riff off of Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier where he both has reason to be on the run, and access to Black Widow who could coach him. Steve is a terrible actor, based on Captain America: The First Avenger but I suspect that's lack of experience and training. He's a fast learner; given expert advice, he should do fine.

While not a Master of Disguise, my Vita-Ray AU gives hints at the way Steve finds his niche fighting the war still vertically condensed. Stories

It also shows how he fights the Cold War and the hotter conflicts.

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Story: "Hairpins" Part 27

Another key point, though subtle

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Size chart, LOL!

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Well...

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Another hint about Phil's early life

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BRILLIANT idea!

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Thoughts

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