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ysabetwordsmithThis poem came out of the July 2, 2024 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from siliconshaman and see_also_friend. It also fills the "Spirit Island" square in my 7-1-24 card for the Games and Entertainment Bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by a pool with fuzzyred. It belongs to the series Peculiar Obligations.
"The Democratic Armada of the Caribbean"
[1600s]
Not long after the Europeans
arrived in the New World,
the pirates followed them.
In the 1500s, pirate havens
began to spring up all around
the islands of the Caribbean Sea.
San Juan, Puerto Rico was
among the first, and key in
smuggling throughout the area.
Portsmouth, Dominica became
a major port of call for the Spanish
and the English, which also made
the town into a prime hub for piracy.
By the 1600s, more had emerged.
Santa Isabel Village located on
Isla de Provedencia was one.
Some even appeared on
the Spanish Main, including
Xcalak and Portobelo.
In 1636, the Caribs drove
the European invaders
from their island Matinino.
After that, they preferred
to trade with the pirates.
Port Morgan, Île-à-Vache
near Hispaniola as well as
Tap House on St. Thomas
began to gain more traffic.
To the north, two towns in
Rhode Island grew popular with
pirates, Providence and Newport.
Tortuga Village on Tortuga Island,
part of the larger Hispaniola, was
the most famous for many years,
despite all of the giant turtles.
It was a golden age for pirates.
Then something interesting happened.
The Religious Society of Friends, who
were pacifists of all rare things, started
reaching out to the pirates in ports.
A few even started to take ship,
speaking of peace, and because
they were skilled at negotiation,
the Friends were ... tolerated.
The founder, George Fox,
annoyed a lot of stuffy people.
Pirates found that amusing,
and the Friends entertaining,
if more than a bit perplexing.
In the 1650s, female Friends
connected with female pirates,
teaming up to advance the rights
of women on an even wider scale.
The female pirates started to provide
escape routes for abused women
in general, frustrating men in power.
Bermuda had been stewing for a while,
and unrest finally erupted into revolt
in 1656 that made it a free pirate island.
Another great pirate haven arose in
Port Royal, Jamaica as people built
taverns, whorehouses, trading posts,
and other maritime attractions.
George Fox began to express
his doubts about slavery.
The pirates listened with
half an ear, because on
the one hand, freedom was
vital to their way of life, but
on the other hand, they were
mostly motivated by money.
The Friends were always
getting into trouble, though,
and pirates appreciated that.
In 1660, female pirates rescued
Mary Dyer from intended execution
and hauled her to the Caribbean
to prevent her from returning
to danger in New England.
It took her well over a year
to forgive them for uprooting her.
More pirate havens emerged as
foreign ships harassed older ones,
like Petit Goâve on Saint Domingue.
The British attempted to take control
of the Cayman Islands in 1670, which
ended with their official establishment
as free pirate islands -- and a lot of
British sailors getting fed to the basks
of truly enormous crocodiles that swam
around the beaches and the rivers
of the islands named for them.
Several Friends, including
William Edmundson and
George Fox, visited Barbados.
When they argued for treating
slaves humanely, the owners
became outraged and drove
the Friends off the island.
The pirates just laughed;
teasing the rich never got old.
Later they found out that George
published his Barbados sermons
in a little book that again urged
people to treat their slaves better.
Someone got hold of a copy
and passed it around the taverns,
spawning all manner of jokes.
A few years after those incidents,
Friend Alice Curwen traveled to
Barbados and pestered one of
the locals, Friend Martha Tavernor,
to release the slaves she owned.
It wasn't quite the catfight that
the pirates typically bet on,
but they bet on it anyway.
Eventually Alice won,
and her allies collected
their bets, and nobody
thought too much of it yet.
In 1683, William Penn
created a new colony
called Pennsylvania,
aimed at fostering love
and a spirit of brotherhood.
He insisted that the settlers pay
Indians a fair price for native land,
treat natives with dignity, and
respect their various cultures.
William even tried to enact
legislation against slavery.
The pirates just chuckled
about it over their rum.
Well, this ought
to get ... interesting.
By the 1690s, some of
the pirates ventured out
on long-distance voyages
from the Americas to raid
East India Company targets
in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.
The island of Bermuda shifted
its economy to maritime business
and incorporated many former slaves
as blacksmiths, masons, carpenters,
coopers, shipwrights, and sailors.
Then in 1692, disaster struck:
an earthquake and a great wave
severely damaged Port Royal.
Pirates and Friends alike
flocked to Jamaica and
rendered aid to survivors.
They quickly rebuilt the town
on safer ground, leaving only
the docks at sea level, and
renamed it Port Liberty.
Some pirates still shifted
their routes to Nassau on
New Providence Island in
the Bahamas, which was well
placed and hadn't been flattened.
On October 23, 1696 the Friends
in Philadelphia ruled against bringing
in any new slaves, and urged those
who still owned slaves to treat them
well and to take them to Meetings.
By this point the pirates were
used to it, because their crews
were mostly mixed and if you had
Friends then you also had Meetings,
because any two or three of them
would stick together like burrs.
The Delaware River had
long been favored for piracy
because of the heavy trade
that ran up and down it.
In 1699, the Friends and
the Pennsylvania Assembly
negotiated with the river pirates,
giving them Tinicum Island as
well as Tinicum Township, with
the understanding that they could
trade in the state and its towns
but could no longer raid in either.
However, the pirates remained free
to attack any enemies of Pennsylvania.
Everyone was very happy with this deal.
[1700s]
Pirate havens continued to emerge,
with Tylerton on Smith Island off
the shore of Virginia, and Eden on
Ocracoke Island off the shore
of North Carolina which had
a sympathetic governor.
In 1701, the War of
the Spanish Succession
broke out, with France and
Great Britain joining the fray.
This offered plentiful opportunities
for privateers to make a profit.
The Pennsylvania Assembly
passed an Act to prevent
the importation of slaves
in 1713, but they had
a hard time enforcing it.
That still marked a step
toward the end of slavery.
After the Spanish Succession
concluded in 1714, many of
the sailors and privateers
were left unemployed.
Some of these turned
to piracy in the Caribbean
and the eastern seaboard
of North America, others
to the Indian Ocean and
the West African coast.
It made for some unrest,
because they were new to
the area and didn't know
all the local customs yet.
So local pirates took to flying
a black flag with a white dove
if they had a Friend in the crew,
and they taught the newcomers
that you could haul alongside
such a ship and ask for help if
you needed a negotiator or doctor.
Ships with a Friend for a captain
flew a white flag with a white dove
on a red-and-black 8-pointed star,
with similar offers of assistance.
In 1715, another antislavery tract
made the rounds of the Caribbean,
this one with a long list of reasons
why it was such a terrible idea.
In Jamaica, the Maroon War
made it a free pirate island in 1730,
and people banned slavery there.
It became a haven, not just
for raiders of all sorts, but
also for freedmen and
for runaway slaves.
In 1733, a publisher in
Rhode Island released
a testimony on slavery, and
this one circulated widely as
one of the notable conjunctions
between Friends and pirates
on the topic of abolition.
The pirates, who had
been drifting more toward
freedom over money, grew
more convinced that slaving
wasn't any way to make a living.
On November 23 of the same year,
Saint John became a free pirate island.
From there the rebellion spread to
the rest of the Danish West Indies.
Saint Thomas followed suit in
1734. Fighting in Saint Croix,
the largest island, continued
until it broke free in late 1736.
In April 1756, a group of Friends
from Philadelphia established
the Friendly Association for
Regaining and Preserving
Peace with the Indians by
Pacific Measures. They
used trade and health care
to cement alliances with tribes.
Louisiana became more and
more friendly to pirates, with
Saint Malo in St. Bernard Parish
becoming a haven for them.
The Carib War made Saint Vincent
into a free pirate island in 1773.
Then slaves in Tobago revolted,
freeing it in 1770, followed by
Trinidad where a long bloody war
left it free in the summer of 1774.
On April 19, 1775, years of
rising discontent in the colonies
boiled over into open war with
the battles of Lexington and
Concord, Massachusetts.
These marked the start of
the American Revolutionary War.
The American Continental Congress
ratified the Declaration of Independence
on July 4, 1776 but only included some of
the antislavery passages from earlier drafts,
and quite a bit from the Custom of the Coast.
On July 15, 1776 the Congress struck a deal
with a large group of pirates and privateers,
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean.
They agreed to recognize each other
as nations and to work together as
allies against hostile European forces.
The Americans offered control
of Rhode Island to the Armada,
along with support of its claims
to various other locations, in
exchange for military support.
The Armada was happy to secure
Rhode Island and delighted to attack
every British vessel they could find.
A key feature of the Armada, however,
was that they based their identity on
ships as much as on pieces of land.
On July 8, 1777 the Vermont Republic
became the first state to outlaw slavery.
Then on March 1, 1780 Pennsylvania
passed an act for gradual abolition.
In 1781, the slave ship Zong ran
into trouble, and the crew debated
throwing its human cargo overboard.
Then the pirate ship Black Guillemot
discovered the slave ship and boarded
her, staging the Zong Rescue, in which
they freed all of the African captives.
Luke Collingwood and most of his crew
were either killed on board or thrown
overboard, by pirates or freed Africans.
A majority of the 132 Africans became pirates.
Due in large part to excellent alliances with
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean
and several Native American tribes,
the Revolutionary War came to
an end on September 3, 1781.
In January of 1791, the island of
Dominica became a free pirate island
and thus outlawed slavery there.
A few months later, Spirit Island,
between Dominica and Martinique,
was set aside for the Carib People.
Pirates being a superstitious bunch,
they just didn't want to mess with it.
Also the island of Hispaniola, previously
divided as French Saint-Domingue and
Spanish Santo Domingo, became
a free pirate island, took the name
of Haiti, and banned slavery.
On February 1, 1793 France
and Great Britain went to war.
Privateers all over the Caribbean
rushed to seek Letters of Marque.
By 1795, the society of pirates
had gained considerable momentum,
with smaller groups joining the Armada
and more islands throwing off overlords.
In that year alone, Grenada, Saint Lucia,
and Curaçao all became free pirate islands
and banned slavery in their holdings.
[1800s]
In 1800, it became
a disownable offense
for Friends to own slaves
anywhere, even down in
the southern slave states.
Friends in those states who
owned slaves were obligated
to move somewhere else that
emancipating slaves was legal.
Some simply took up with pirates,
who generally favored freedom
and whose ships and crews
included many former slaves.
Louisiana became more of
a pirate haven with places such
as Manila Village in Barataria Bay.
The Friends had some successes in
sustaining fair treatment of tribal people.
These alliances helped the growing nation
develop good practices and withstand
pressures from foreign countries.
In 1803, attempts to enslave
free passengers of color from
ships docking in Cuba sparked
a rebellion that ended with Cuba
becoming a free pirate island in 1804.
A population of Taino, who had previously
escaped European invaders and hidden
in the mountains or settled elsewhere,
reappeared and became more willing
to trade with the current residents of
Cuba and the pirates who visited there.
In April of 1816, Bussa's Rebellion
made Barbados a free pirate island,
and they banned slavery there.
Then in 1821, Marcos Xiorro
led a great slave revolt against
the sugar plantation owners and
the Spanish Colonial government.
As a result, Puerto Rico became
a free pirate island, outlawing slavery.
During the 1840s to 1850s, Friends
hired freedom seekers and free blacks
to work on their farms and build cabins.
They encouraged black families
to send their children to school
and participate in community life.
Many of these families prospered
and in time bought their own land.
One such cluster of cabins, which
developed on property owned
by Friend James E. Bonine,
turned into Ramptown.
Eventually that became
a key black owned and
operated town, including
Friends among its residents
as well as closest neighbors.
Ramptown sent out missionaries
to teach other people, particularly
in the Caribbean, how to get along
and establish a healthy municipality.
This improved life and society there.
On April 12, 1861 the American Civil War
broke out over slavery, state rights, and
a bunch of other arguments that people
just couldn't seem to work through.
Then on April 29, 1861 the Union
met with the Democratic Armada
of the Caribbean and made a deal.
They offered the Armada control
of Florida and Louisiana along
with some coastal islands such as
Smith Island off the coast of Virginia
and Ocracoke Island off the shore
of North Carolina, which the nations
had previously been sharing and
sometimes bickering about.
In exchange, the Armada
blockaded the Gulf of Mexico
so that neither merchant nor
military vessels could easily
aid the Confederate States.
At this time, the Armada
also voted to ban slavery
throughout their territory,
rather than individually on
some ships and islands.
Similarly, female pirates
insisted on certain rights
for women of all stations.
On September 22, 1862
President Abraham Lincoln
issued new legislation, and
the Emancipation Proclamation
took effect immediately, freeing
all slaves held within America.
During the American Civil War,
the Bahamas followed by the Turks
and Caicos Islands became members in
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean.
By this point, most of the islands had
shaken off European control and
taken charge of their own fate.
Despite having developed from
brigands and buccaneers, they
had learned enough skills from
the Friends to create societies
that were stable, comfortable
to live in, and most importantly
not based on enslaving anyone.
In May of 1863, the Civil War ended,
largely due to support from the Armada
which generally opposed slavery.
The Thirteenth Amendment to
the Constitution of the United States
was proposed on January 31, 1864.
It prohibited slavery and included
references to the penitentiary practices
by the Religious Society of Friends, so it
also forbade forced labor without pay.
Instead, prison wages must be saved
for payment upon release, giving
former inmates a temporary means
of support such that they could
secure a home and a legal job.
The Thirteenth Amendment was
ratified on December 6, 1864.
In the late 1800s, pirates
established a new haven
in Galveston town on
the island of Galveston
just off the Texas Shore.
The western states were
developing gradually, and
everyone wanted access
for trade or smuggling.
Texas just grumbled and
let them have it, lacking
the resources to dispute
possession so soon after
the South lost the Civil War.
Europe wasn't any happier,
but by then it was clear that
the pirates of the Caribbean
weren't going anywhere.
The Democratic Armada of
the Caribbean was just too
powerful and appealing for it
to fade away into the waves.
The United States and
the Armada enjoyed
a close if sometimes ...
peppery relationship.
At the turn of the century,
it looked like smooth sailing.
* * *
Notes:
This poem is long, so its map and content notes appear separately.
siliconshaman and see_also_friend. It also fills the "Spirit Island" square in my 7-1-24 card for the Games and Entertainment Bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by a pool with fuzzyred. It belongs to the series Peculiar Obligations."The Democratic Armada of the Caribbean"
[1600s]
Not long after the Europeans
arrived in the New World,
the pirates followed them.
In the 1500s, pirate havens
began to spring up all around
the islands of the Caribbean Sea.
San Juan, Puerto Rico was
among the first, and key in
smuggling throughout the area.
Portsmouth, Dominica became
a major port of call for the Spanish
and the English, which also made
the town into a prime hub for piracy.
By the 1600s, more had emerged.
Santa Isabel Village located on
Isla de Provedencia was one.
Some even appeared on
the Spanish Main, including
Xcalak and Portobelo.
In 1636, the Caribs drove
the European invaders
from their island Matinino.
After that, they preferred
to trade with the pirates.
Port Morgan, Île-à-Vache
near Hispaniola as well as
Tap House on St. Thomas
began to gain more traffic.
To the north, two towns in
Rhode Island grew popular with
pirates, Providence and Newport.
Tortuga Village on Tortuga Island,
part of the larger Hispaniola, was
the most famous for many years,
despite all of the giant turtles.
It was a golden age for pirates.
Then something interesting happened.
The Religious Society of Friends, who
were pacifists of all rare things, started
reaching out to the pirates in ports.
A few even started to take ship,
speaking of peace, and because
they were skilled at negotiation,
the Friends were ... tolerated.
The founder, George Fox,
annoyed a lot of stuffy people.
Pirates found that amusing,
and the Friends entertaining,
if more than a bit perplexing.
In the 1650s, female Friends
connected with female pirates,
teaming up to advance the rights
of women on an even wider scale.
The female pirates started to provide
escape routes for abused women
in general, frustrating men in power.
Bermuda had been stewing for a while,
and unrest finally erupted into revolt
in 1656 that made it a free pirate island.
Another great pirate haven arose in
Port Royal, Jamaica as people built
taverns, whorehouses, trading posts,
and other maritime attractions.
George Fox began to express
his doubts about slavery.
The pirates listened with
half an ear, because on
the one hand, freedom was
vital to their way of life, but
on the other hand, they were
mostly motivated by money.
The Friends were always
getting into trouble, though,
and pirates appreciated that.
In 1660, female pirates rescued
Mary Dyer from intended execution
and hauled her to the Caribbean
to prevent her from returning
to danger in New England.
It took her well over a year
to forgive them for uprooting her.
More pirate havens emerged as
foreign ships harassed older ones,
like Petit Goâve on Saint Domingue.
The British attempted to take control
of the Cayman Islands in 1670, which
ended with their official establishment
as free pirate islands -- and a lot of
British sailors getting fed to the basks
of truly enormous crocodiles that swam
around the beaches and the rivers
of the islands named for them.
Several Friends, including
William Edmundson and
George Fox, visited Barbados.
When they argued for treating
slaves humanely, the owners
became outraged and drove
the Friends off the island.
The pirates just laughed;
teasing the rich never got old.
Later they found out that George
published his Barbados sermons
in a little book that again urged
people to treat their slaves better.
Someone got hold of a copy
and passed it around the taverns,
spawning all manner of jokes.
A few years after those incidents,
Friend Alice Curwen traveled to
Barbados and pestered one of
the locals, Friend Martha Tavernor,
to release the slaves she owned.
It wasn't quite the catfight that
the pirates typically bet on,
but they bet on it anyway.
Eventually Alice won,
and her allies collected
their bets, and nobody
thought too much of it yet.
In 1683, William Penn
created a new colony
called Pennsylvania,
aimed at fostering love
and a spirit of brotherhood.
He insisted that the settlers pay
Indians a fair price for native land,
treat natives with dignity, and
respect their various cultures.
William even tried to enact
legislation against slavery.
The pirates just chuckled
about it over their rum.
Well, this ought
to get ... interesting.
By the 1690s, some of
the pirates ventured out
on long-distance voyages
from the Americas to raid
East India Company targets
in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.
The island of Bermuda shifted
its economy to maritime business
and incorporated many former slaves
as blacksmiths, masons, carpenters,
coopers, shipwrights, and sailors.
Then in 1692, disaster struck:
an earthquake and a great wave
severely damaged Port Royal.
Pirates and Friends alike
flocked to Jamaica and
rendered aid to survivors.
They quickly rebuilt the town
on safer ground, leaving only
the docks at sea level, and
renamed it Port Liberty.
Some pirates still shifted
their routes to Nassau on
New Providence Island in
the Bahamas, which was well
placed and hadn't been flattened.
On October 23, 1696 the Friends
in Philadelphia ruled against bringing
in any new slaves, and urged those
who still owned slaves to treat them
well and to take them to Meetings.
By this point the pirates were
used to it, because their crews
were mostly mixed and if you had
Friends then you also had Meetings,
because any two or three of them
would stick together like burrs.
The Delaware River had
long been favored for piracy
because of the heavy trade
that ran up and down it.
In 1699, the Friends and
the Pennsylvania Assembly
negotiated with the river pirates,
giving them Tinicum Island as
well as Tinicum Township, with
the understanding that they could
trade in the state and its towns
but could no longer raid in either.
However, the pirates remained free
to attack any enemies of Pennsylvania.
Everyone was very happy with this deal.
[1700s]
Pirate havens continued to emerge,
with Tylerton on Smith Island off
the shore of Virginia, and Eden on
Ocracoke Island off the shore
of North Carolina which had
a sympathetic governor.
In 1701, the War of
the Spanish Succession
broke out, with France and
Great Britain joining the fray.
This offered plentiful opportunities
for privateers to make a profit.
The Pennsylvania Assembly
passed an Act to prevent
the importation of slaves
in 1713, but they had
a hard time enforcing it.
That still marked a step
toward the end of slavery.
After the Spanish Succession
concluded in 1714, many of
the sailors and privateers
were left unemployed.
Some of these turned
to piracy in the Caribbean
and the eastern seaboard
of North America, others
to the Indian Ocean and
the West African coast.
It made for some unrest,
because they were new to
the area and didn't know
all the local customs yet.
So local pirates took to flying
a black flag with a white dove
if they had a Friend in the crew,
and they taught the newcomers
that you could haul alongside
such a ship and ask for help if
you needed a negotiator or doctor.
Ships with a Friend for a captain
flew a white flag with a white dove
on a red-and-black 8-pointed star,
with similar offers of assistance.
In 1715, another antislavery tract
made the rounds of the Caribbean,
this one with a long list of reasons
why it was such a terrible idea.
In Jamaica, the Maroon War
made it a free pirate island in 1730,
and people banned slavery there.
It became a haven, not just
for raiders of all sorts, but
also for freedmen and
for runaway slaves.
In 1733, a publisher in
Rhode Island released
a testimony on slavery, and
this one circulated widely as
one of the notable conjunctions
between Friends and pirates
on the topic of abolition.
The pirates, who had
been drifting more toward
freedom over money, grew
more convinced that slaving
wasn't any way to make a living.
On November 23 of the same year,
Saint John became a free pirate island.
From there the rebellion spread to
the rest of the Danish West Indies.
Saint Thomas followed suit in
1734. Fighting in Saint Croix,
the largest island, continued
until it broke free in late 1736.
In April 1756, a group of Friends
from Philadelphia established
the Friendly Association for
Regaining and Preserving
Peace with the Indians by
Pacific Measures. They
used trade and health care
to cement alliances with tribes.
Louisiana became more and
more friendly to pirates, with
Saint Malo in St. Bernard Parish
becoming a haven for them.
The Carib War made Saint Vincent
into a free pirate island in 1773.
Then slaves in Tobago revolted,
freeing it in 1770, followed by
Trinidad where a long bloody war
left it free in the summer of 1774.
On April 19, 1775, years of
rising discontent in the colonies
boiled over into open war with
the battles of Lexington and
Concord, Massachusetts.
These marked the start of
the American Revolutionary War.
The American Continental Congress
ratified the Declaration of Independence
on July 4, 1776 but only included some of
the antislavery passages from earlier drafts,
and quite a bit from the Custom of the Coast.
On July 15, 1776 the Congress struck a deal
with a large group of pirates and privateers,
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean.
They agreed to recognize each other
as nations and to work together as
allies against hostile European forces.
The Americans offered control
of Rhode Island to the Armada,
along with support of its claims
to various other locations, in
exchange for military support.
The Armada was happy to secure
Rhode Island and delighted to attack
every British vessel they could find.
A key feature of the Armada, however,
was that they based their identity on
ships as much as on pieces of land.
On July 8, 1777 the Vermont Republic
became the first state to outlaw slavery.
Then on March 1, 1780 Pennsylvania
passed an act for gradual abolition.
In 1781, the slave ship Zong ran
into trouble, and the crew debated
throwing its human cargo overboard.
Then the pirate ship Black Guillemot
discovered the slave ship and boarded
her, staging the Zong Rescue, in which
they freed all of the African captives.
Luke Collingwood and most of his crew
were either killed on board or thrown
overboard, by pirates or freed Africans.
A majority of the 132 Africans became pirates.
Due in large part to excellent alliances with
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean
and several Native American tribes,
the Revolutionary War came to
an end on September 3, 1781.
In January of 1791, the island of
Dominica became a free pirate island
and thus outlawed slavery there.
A few months later, Spirit Island,
between Dominica and Martinique,
was set aside for the Carib People.
Pirates being a superstitious bunch,
they just didn't want to mess with it.
Also the island of Hispaniola, previously
divided as French Saint-Domingue and
Spanish Santo Domingo, became
a free pirate island, took the name
of Haiti, and banned slavery.
On February 1, 1793 France
and Great Britain went to war.
Privateers all over the Caribbean
rushed to seek Letters of Marque.
By 1795, the society of pirates
had gained considerable momentum,
with smaller groups joining the Armada
and more islands throwing off overlords.
In that year alone, Grenada, Saint Lucia,
and Curaçao all became free pirate islands
and banned slavery in their holdings.
[1800s]
In 1800, it became
a disownable offense
for Friends to own slaves
anywhere, even down in
the southern slave states.
Friends in those states who
owned slaves were obligated
to move somewhere else that
emancipating slaves was legal.
Some simply took up with pirates,
who generally favored freedom
and whose ships and crews
included many former slaves.
Louisiana became more of
a pirate haven with places such
as Manila Village in Barataria Bay.
The Friends had some successes in
sustaining fair treatment of tribal people.
These alliances helped the growing nation
develop good practices and withstand
pressures from foreign countries.
In 1803, attempts to enslave
free passengers of color from
ships docking in Cuba sparked
a rebellion that ended with Cuba
becoming a free pirate island in 1804.
A population of Taino, who had previously
escaped European invaders and hidden
in the mountains or settled elsewhere,
reappeared and became more willing
to trade with the current residents of
Cuba and the pirates who visited there.
In April of 1816, Bussa's Rebellion
made Barbados a free pirate island,
and they banned slavery there.
Then in 1821, Marcos Xiorro
led a great slave revolt against
the sugar plantation owners and
the Spanish Colonial government.
As a result, Puerto Rico became
a free pirate island, outlawing slavery.
During the 1840s to 1850s, Friends
hired freedom seekers and free blacks
to work on their farms and build cabins.
They encouraged black families
to send their children to school
and participate in community life.
Many of these families prospered
and in time bought their own land.
One such cluster of cabins, which
developed on property owned
by Friend James E. Bonine,
turned into Ramptown.
Eventually that became
a key black owned and
operated town, including
Friends among its residents
as well as closest neighbors.
Ramptown sent out missionaries
to teach other people, particularly
in the Caribbean, how to get along
and establish a healthy municipality.
This improved life and society there.
On April 12, 1861 the American Civil War
broke out over slavery, state rights, and
a bunch of other arguments that people
just couldn't seem to work through.
Then on April 29, 1861 the Union
met with the Democratic Armada
of the Caribbean and made a deal.
They offered the Armada control
of Florida and Louisiana along
with some coastal islands such as
Smith Island off the coast of Virginia
and Ocracoke Island off the shore
of North Carolina, which the nations
had previously been sharing and
sometimes bickering about.
In exchange, the Armada
blockaded the Gulf of Mexico
so that neither merchant nor
military vessels could easily
aid the Confederate States.
At this time, the Armada
also voted to ban slavery
throughout their territory,
rather than individually on
some ships and islands.
Similarly, female pirates
insisted on certain rights
for women of all stations.
On September 22, 1862
President Abraham Lincoln
issued new legislation, and
the Emancipation Proclamation
took effect immediately, freeing
all slaves held within America.
During the American Civil War,
the Bahamas followed by the Turks
and Caicos Islands became members in
the Democratic Armada of the Caribbean.
By this point, most of the islands had
shaken off European control and
taken charge of their own fate.
Despite having developed from
brigands and buccaneers, they
had learned enough skills from
the Friends to create societies
that were stable, comfortable
to live in, and most importantly
not based on enslaving anyone.
In May of 1863, the Civil War ended,
largely due to support from the Armada
which generally opposed slavery.
The Thirteenth Amendment to
the Constitution of the United States
was proposed on January 31, 1864.
It prohibited slavery and included
references to the penitentiary practices
by the Religious Society of Friends, so it
also forbade forced labor without pay.
Instead, prison wages must be saved
for payment upon release, giving
former inmates a temporary means
of support such that they could
secure a home and a legal job.
The Thirteenth Amendment was
ratified on December 6, 1864.
In the late 1800s, pirates
established a new haven
in Galveston town on
the island of Galveston
just off the Texas Shore.
The western states were
developing gradually, and
everyone wanted access
for trade or smuggling.
Texas just grumbled and
let them have it, lacking
the resources to dispute
possession so soon after
the South lost the Civil War.
Europe wasn't any happier,
but by then it was clear that
the pirates of the Caribbean
weren't going anywhere.
The Democratic Armada of
the Caribbean was just too
powerful and appealing for it
to fade away into the waves.
The United States and
the Armada enjoyed
a close if sometimes ...
peppery relationship.
At the turn of the century,
it looked like smooth sailing.
* * *
Notes:
This poem is long, so its map and content notes appear separately.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-10 06:39 pm (UTC)True.
*ponder* What about a bow and arrow, or crossbow? Not everyone used guns at that time period. And with those weapons, you'd have the option of using a blunt point if you wished. A lead ball could still break bone, but wouldn't be as horrific as a bullet.
Another consideration is the level of threat. One might not touch a gun in defense of one's own life, but defense of a dozen cowering children might be a very different matter.
>>And, while pacifists can and do sometimes kill in the real world, well... I've mentioned it before, but there's a tendency to... dunno, fetishize? cultures or groups that are marked as different. So then it's not a different, diverse, context-filled culture with sincere values, its a funny group of caricature people with quirks for people to gawk at.<<
True.
I'm doing my best to present a range of different Friends, from historic figures to fictional ones, across a wide timespan and in diverse contexts.
*ponder* We really don't have a "city Quaker" yet, the ones with more money and a fancier dress mode. Could sure use a banker! I mean somebody has to think up the money laundering as a nonviolent organized crime.
>> And then some of those stories try to create drama by breaking the values, and while it probably /can/ be done respectfully, people usually don't have that level of skill or care. And the whole 'drama' thing feels kind of disrespectful. That whole 'its only funny if everyone is laughing together' thing.<<
Point. I do tend to lay out the parameters and then actively search for exceptions to the rules.
We're going to have to deal with the pacifism issue and how different Friends interpret it, just because this setting mixes Quakers with organized crime (original prompt) and pirates (where it's trending). That means looking at the underlying principles, how individuals or Meetings interpret them, and the effects of context.
To me, those variations are fascinating. The quote hooked me, because it makes me wonder what context would drive a Friend to that extreme? Was he on the less-pacifist side to begin with? In a truly dire situation? Some combination of both? How well would it work? And then afterwards, how would he feel about whatever he did, and how would other Friends respond if they knew about it? Because that story is getting around.
>> Dunno how well I'm explaining this... I hope I am making sense. <<
You are. Maybe it'll work out, maybe not, but it's an interesting discussion and highly relative to this series, which is really about moral quandaries at the core.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-12 03:30 am (UTC)Good solution.
>>*ponder* We really don't have a "city Quaker" yet, the ones with more money and a fancier dress mode.>>
What about setting some stories in Philadelphia or London? Phili would be Quaker-dominant, and probably involve allied Native tribes, while 1600s London would be a more … prejudicial environment. But either would be a good place for a business or bank story in the 1600s.
<
Good solution.
>>*ponder* We really don't have a "city Quaker" yet, the ones with more money and a fancier dress mode.>>
What about setting some stories in Philadelphia or London? Phili would be Quaker-dominant, and probably involve allied Native tribes, while 1600s London would be a more … prejudicial environment. But either would be a good place for a business or bank story in the 1600s.
<<Could sure use a banker! I mean somebody has to think up the money laundering as a nonviolent organized crime.<<
Unfortunately, most of the prompts I can think of would be in the 1700s or 1800s, and I don’t think the timeline is shored up enough yet. Here’s a list of L-Earth businesses to glance at, though : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Quaker_businesses,_organizations_and_charities
>>Point. I do tend to lay out the parameters and then actively search for exceptions to the rules.<<
I think you do a good job – and if you did goof on something, you’d be willing to listen or even try to fix it. I’ve just seen it done badly so often that I’m extra cautious.
>>We're going to have to deal with the pacifism issue and how different Friends interpret it, just because this setting mixes Quakers with organized crime (original prompt) and pirates (where it's trending).<<
For some reason, I find the mixing of 1600s pirates and the slang term ‘trending’ in the same sentence to be hilarious.
>>That means looking at the underlying principles,…<<
A lot of times, outsiders don’t look into underlying values of different cultures. Probably because it’s a lot of work!
But when interacting with – or writing – an other-group character it really helps with understanding.
>>…how individuals or Meetings interpret them, and the effects of context.<<
Like all human societies, we can be really fractal about values, customs, etc. Good for storytelling purposes, though!
>> Dunno how well I'm explaining this... I hope I am making sense. <<
>>You are. Maybe it'll work out, maybe not, but it's an interesting discussion and highly relative to this series, which is really about moral quandaries at the core.<<
In that case, something else to keep in mind will be that (in activism spaces, with Quakers and with life in general) it is important to try and have an idea of your moral framework /before/ dealing with a moral quandary.
For Quakers specifically, that’s one of the reasons our decisions tend to take awhile – we’re considering all angles.
You can probably easily find some resources on the activist side of things.
Anyway, I suspect that aspect will be incorporated into the symbiosis culture. At minimum, it is useful for helping people sort out where they are best suited on the hawk/dove spectrum. It will also probably be useful for advance troubleshooting of risky situations.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-17 07:15 pm (UTC)We can do that. I think some of the earlier poems are set in Pennsylvania, working with historic figures. A city Quaker should fit either in Philadelphia or London.
>>I think you do a good job – and if you did goof on something, you’d be willing to listen or even try to fix it. I’ve just seen it done badly so often that I’m extra cautious.<<
I do my best. I'm painfully aware that official, mainstream references can be wrong to the point of dangerous in comparison to the lived experience of trait-having people. It's happened with the Damask thread and with An Army of One. :/
>> For some reason, I find the mixing of 1600s pirates and the slang term ‘trending’ in the same sentence to be hilarious. <<
I meant trending in the statistical sense of "occurrences developing a pattern in this direction," not the modern misuse which actually refers to fads. A trend is a lasting pattern.
>> A lot of times, outsiders don’t look into underlying values of different cultures. Probably because it’s a lot of work! <<
That's true, but to me, it is the interesting part of other cultures -- what they do differently, better, or worse in comparison to each other. And if they have a great idea, I will happily replicate it.
I tend to write from the ground up, so examining social dynamics and how they influence behavior is part of that. Also I'm used to working with alien societies and analyzing what motivates them.
>>But when interacting with – or writing – an other-group character it really helps with understanding.<<
Also helps in real life, for which literature can be a good example.
When Ashar first opened, we scouted the place, bought a few things we recognized like fruit juices, and wrote down some new things that looked interesting. Then we looked up recipes. Then we went back and bought the supplies to make the recipes.
At one point, one of the staff -- who are all immigrants from Africa -- asked what we were doing with the honeybeans and dried shrimp. I explained that we were making adalu and listed the ingredients. "That's just how we make it!" "Well yeah, I got the recipe off the Nigerian TV website."
Also, I eventually figured out that if you un-substitute American kale, spinach, etc. from bean dishes and replace African greens -- I'm using dried moringa leaves -- the result is MUCH better. But to get there, you have to respect other cultures enough to realize they might actually have some good ideas.
>>Like all human societies, we can be really fractal about values, customs, etc. Good for storytelling purposes, though!<<
Sooth, and it's one of the things I love about Friends -- how diverse they are, the different ways they solve complex problems.
>> In that case, something else to keep in mind will be that (in activism spaces, with Quakers and with life in general) it is important to try and have an idea of your moral framework /before/ dealing with a moral quandary.<<
Absolutely. I think that's something the pirates and Quakers will figure out quickly -- that if they are going to mix together, both sides really need to think about their own values and how to handle someone having totally different ones. Because if they think it through, they'll realize that situational authority is super useful. The Quakers can step back to let the pirates handle a violent conflict, which is what pirates do well; and the pirates can step back to let the Quakers handle messy emotional issues, which they do well; rather than anyone trying to use a screwdriver to pound nails. If they can tolerate the differences, they just make a really fantastic balance together.
>> For Quakers specifically, that’s one of the reasons our decisions tend to take awhile – we’re considering all angles. <<
And listening in Silence in case God decides to offer advice.
>> You can probably easily find some resources on the activist side of things.<<
True.
>>Anyway, I suspect that aspect will be incorporated into the symbiosis culture. At minimum, it is useful for helping people sort out where they are best suited on the hawk/dove spectrum. <<
Agreed.
>>It will also probably be useful for advance troubleshooting of risky situations.<<
Do you have people with the skills to handle that situation fluently? If not, maybe you should try to find some or look for a way to avoid it.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-19 04:27 am (UTC)I think of the, hm, historical domain poems as setting an outline, and the more Slice of Life or original character poems as fleshing the world out a bit.
>>A city Quaker should fit either in Philadelphia or London.<<
Phili for the White Feather Friends, and London for the stock market-investments, perhaps... For what it is worth, I do know a Quaker tax accountant in RL.
>>I meant trending in the statistical sense of "occurrences developing a pattern in this direction," not the modern misuse which actually refers to fads. A trend is a lasting pattern.<<
Regardless, it amused me.
>>That's true, but to me, it is the interesting part of other cultures -- what they do differently, better, or worse in comparison to each other. And if they have a great idea, I will happily replicate it.<<
If trying to do that in this setting, I will suggest writing some culture class and working through it poems. That will gave a chance to examine the differences, both positive and negative, of all the cultures in play.
>>Sooth, and it's one of the things I love about Friends -- how diverse they are, the different ways they solve complex problems.<<
Keep in mind, that each 'group' will have many similar ideas. Kind of like the US court system, in a way. But you'll have individuals, organized into Meetings, organized into Monthly Meetings, organized into Yearly Meetings which can be affiliated in larger groups such as FGC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_General_Conference
So something like gay marriage or anti-slavery might start with one or a few people, than the Meeting decides to ban/allow [respectively], then the Monthly Meeting (which means all the Meetings in that group will ban/allow), etc.
I've also heard of Meetings setting standards for stuff like 'acceptable' Plain Dress for their members, though I haven't heard of anyone fussing about that specific issue in modern times.
>>I think that's something the pirates and Quakers will figure out quickly -- that if they are going to mix together, both sides really need to think about their own values and how to handle someone having totally different ones.<<
Oh, on an individual basis, I can see someone being bored, freaked out or pissed off at an other-cultured friend's idea of a fun night out. If the friendship (or whatever other relationship) is important enough, that's going to stick.
>>And listening in Silence in case God decides to offer advice.<<
Being in too much of a hurry means important stuff gets forgotten, whether that is a divine revelation or "take your keys out of the car before you lock the door."
:)
>>Do you have people with the skills to handle that situation fluently? If not, maybe you should try to find some or look for a way to avoid it.<<
Thats one use. Also:
- Is this something you can do without taking damage? If you expect to take damage, is it within a range you are comfortable with?
- What problems are likely to arise, and how should they be handled? (Remember the story of the protest, where they wanted to plan for a possible medical emergency?)
- Also, if you need /different/ skills, is there a way to train them? (Especially important as a lot of the stuff we get involved in involve less popularized skills such as nonviolence or are very long term issues like trying to eliminate slavery.)
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-25 02:34 am (UTC)That fits.
>> Phili for the White Feather Friends, and London for the stock market-investments, perhaps... For what it is worth, I do know a Quaker tax accountant in RL. <<
Logical.
>> If trying to do that in this setting, I will suggest writing some culture class and working through it poems. That will gave a chance to examine the differences, both positive and negative, of all the cultures in play. <<
That could be hilarious, especially if paired -- a Quaker class for pirates and a piracy class for Quakers.
>> So something like gay marriage or anti-slavery might start with one or a few people, than the Meeting decides to ban/allow [respectively], then the Monthly Meeting (which means all the Meetings in that group will ban/allow), etc. <<
That's fairly similar to how freedom spread in the Caribbean. Europeans invaded and killed or enslaved the locals, then imported Africans because they were too lazy to work their own farms. But as the rebellions started happening, one island after another became a free pirate port. Because of all the ships, those islands soon connected with each other, which enabled the developing culture to spread.
>> I've also heard of Meetings setting standards for stuff like 'acceptable' Plain Dress for their members, <<
That seems likely. Each locale might differ in terms of what was affordable or fancy, and what was practical. One thing that's common in rural areas is women wearing some sort of pants under a skirt or dress.
>> though I haven't heard of anyone fussing about that specific issue in modern times.<<
I'm fairly sure there are modes of dress that are not exactly appropriate for Meeting, or Quaker life in general. I remember a few times in college where someone quietly pointed out that certain types of date clothes weren't best suited to Meeting. So in the context of this series, I'd expect that conversation to happen between Quaker women and prostitutes or pirate women. The men at least mostly tend to cover their bodies.
>> Being in too much of a hurry means important stuff gets forgotten, whether that is a divine revelation or "take your keys out of the car before you lock the door." <<
Also true.
>> - Is this something you can do without taking damage? If you expect to take damage, is it within a range you are comfortable with? <<
Vital point.
>> - What problems are likely to arise, and how should they be handled? (Remember the story of the protest, where they wanted to plan for a possible medical emergency?) <<
I think that skill will spread across the Caribbean.
>> - Also, if you need /different/ skills, is there a way to train them? (Especially important as a lot of the stuff we get involved in involve less popularized skills such as nonviolence or are very long term issues like trying to eliminate slavery.) <<
Come to think of it, they'd likely wind up with something like a hiring hall. Pirates need to form crews. Quakers need to network for different skills like spinning, weaving, or double-booking. It just makes sense to have a place where people can go to find work or workers, and from there, it's a short step to using the same place as a networking hub for students and teachers, if you don't have a school. They'll have schools eventually but probably later.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-28 05:29 am (UTC)>>That's fairly similar to how freedom spread in the Caribbean.<<
Cell theory. The pattern is already extant in both donor/parent cultures.
>>…then imported Africans because they were too lazy to work their own farms.<<
Germ immunity may have had some factors there as well (though laziness is not an inaccurate assessment). That said, I do think that a) generally leaders should be willing to do what they ask their people to do, and b) forced work / enslavement is morally wrong.
But as the rebellions started happening, one island after another became a free pirate port. Because of all the ships, those islands soon connected with each other, which enabled the developing culture to spread.
>> One thing that's common in rural areas is women wearing some sort of pants under a skirt or dress.<<
I have a few ideas for that when we get to the clothing and fashion worldbuilding.
>>I'm fairly sure there are modes of dress that are not exactly appropriate for Meeting,…<<
Yes…
>>…or Quaker life in general.<<
…and yes.
>>I remember a few times in college where someone quietly pointed out that certain types of date clothes weren't best suited to Meeting.<<
That could happen, and yeah, revealing sparkly date clothes aren’t a great idea.
I was more referring to the idea that people won’t get kicked out of Meeting for dressing in the same manner as non-Quakers, which /did/ happen a lot especially during out more secluded periods..
[Today], generally clothes are worn in a way that covers more skin then is the average for a Americans. In terms of formality, you might see stuff that would be suitable in an office ranging to something that might be used to clean out the gutters. You might see nice boho style or occasional genderflexy stuff (incliding bright colors, makeup, jewelry) but it’s done as a form of self-expression, not flaunting your wealth or sex appeal.
Also, clothes should be clean and in reasonably good repair. So, you might see someone who is dressed to clean gutters/muck stalls/whatever, but heir clothes will be clean and genrally won’t have akward holes.
That said, P-Earth fusion society will need a balance. I can’t see them demanding guests to dress completely Quaker style, but preferring people to wear shirts and not be armed to the teeth might come up in discussion.
>>So in the context of this series, I'd expect that conversation to happen between Quaker women and prostitutes or pirate women.<<
Perhaps, though I would hope that the pirate women have less-revealing clothing for when they are at work, because sunburn. And I suspect whether or not women can wear pants will be a big Thing…on the one hand, practicality &gender equality, on the other at that time it was basically an advertisement for sex work.
I suspect that unless someone is totally indifferent to social norms (or deliberately flouting them, like Kate Danger) they would be familiar with the idea of ‘church clothes’ in the mainstream sense, which could translate to ‘dress according to local custom.’ What that custom /is/ would involve some discussion.
>>The men at least mostly tend to cover their bodies.<<
National Geographic Nudity may also be a problem (for both genders).
Male dress :
Some of the male laborers may wear less clothing, either for practicality or from poverty. Or a desire for random teenage chaos…
Accessorizing with swords might be discussed as being ‘overdressed,’ so to speak.
>>I think that skill will spread across the Caribbean.<<
Believe me, that will be /very/ important to anyone who manages to accidentally snap their buddy’s ethics and then having to deal with all the resulting emotional fallout…for weeks, until they get into port.
No-one involved is going to be pleased with that!
>> - Also, if you need /different/ skills, is there a way to train them?<<
>>Come to think of it, they'd likely wind up with something like a hiring hall.<<
Probably eventually, though I was thinking more along the line of skills training.
>>… from there, it's a short step to using the same place as a networking hub for students and teachers, if you don't have a school. They'll have schools eventually but probably later.<<<
Well, they have schools fairly early, though probably not everywhere.
The Motherhouses would probably have some sort of skills training. People need something to do while unable to do heavy work, it’s a good chance to diversify skills or spread useful skills, and if you already have the common space you might as well use it.
I can also see people using Meetinghouses for skills trainings – many Meetinghouses will be used or rented by various groups when not in use as a worship space.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-03-31 07:47 am (UTC)Admittedly that was true of Florida and some other places.
>> That said, I do think that a) generally leaders should be willing to do what they ask their people to do, and b) forced work / enslavement is morally wrong.<<
Agreed.
>>I have a few ideas for that when we get to the clothing and fashion worldbuilding.<<
That will be fun.
>> I was more referring to the idea that people won’t get kicked out of Meeting for dressing in the same manner as non-Quakers, which /did/ happen a lot especially during out more secluded periods..<<
That's where it matters that each Meeting stands on its own. Town Quakers would be a lot dressier than rural ones. Caribbean Quakers are likely much more tolerant of diverse clothing.
>> [Today], generally clothes are worn in a way that covers more skin then is the average for a Americans. In terms of formality, you might see stuff that would be suitable in an office ranging to something that might be used to clean out the gutters. You might see nice boho style or occasional genderflexy stuff (incliding bright colors, makeup, jewelry) but it’s done as a form of self-expression, not flaunting your wealth or sex appeal.<<
It's not that far from the Caribbean style then. You'd have people in very practical work clothes, and someone who frugally bought a secondhand pirate shirt with ruffles rather than an expensive plain shirt.
>> Also, clothes should be clean and in reasonably good repair. So, you might see someone who is dressed to clean gutters/muck stalls/whatever, but heir clothes will be clean and genrally won’t have akward holes.<<
*ponder* I could see a Meeting with a rule that if someone doesn't have suitable clothes for services (e.g. lots of holes) then a proper outfit will be provided. Which could lead to street children or other needy people attending the Meeting regularly so as to get clothes. I don't think it would bother the Quakers.
>> That said, P-Earth fusion society will need a balance. I can’t see them demanding guests to dress completely Quaker style, but preferring people to wear shirts and not be armed to the teeth might come up in discussion.<<
The simplest solution would be to throw a coat or shawl over someone's less-apt outfit. That will serve especially well for the working girls.
>> Perhaps, though I would hope that the pirate women have less-revealing clothing for when they are at work, because sunburn.<<
Well, there are advantages to wearing clothes that protect from sun, wind, splinters, etc. But there are also advantages to wearing clothes that make your opponents stupid and easier to defeat.
>> And I suspect whether or not women can wear pants will be a big Thing…on the one hand, practicality &gender equality, on the other at that time it was basically an advertisement for sex work.<<
I think that some, though not necessarily all, pirate women would favor pants. And you don't want to mistake one for a whore, because she will definitely stab or shoot you.
>> I suspect that unless someone is totally indifferent to social norms (or deliberately flouting them, like Kate Danger) they would be familiar with the idea of ‘church clothes’ in the mainstream sense, which could translate to ‘dress according to local custom.’ What that custom /is/ would involve some discussion. <<
For pirates who grew up in conventional society, they would probably know that. But plenty of them were slaves, or second-generation pirates, with no contact in conventional life.
>>Male dress :
Some of the male laborers may wear less clothing, either for practicality or from poverty. Or a desire for random teenage chaos…<<
In hot climates, both sexes often wore a minimum. There's a South American tribe where a man's outfit consists of a leaf tied tightly around his penis to prevent inappropriate erections. The documentary noted "without it, he would feel very naked."
>> Accessorizing with swords might be discussed as being ‘overdressed,’ so to speak.<<
Point.
>> Well, they have schools fairly early, though probably not everywhere.<<
Remember that school used to be for the rich; everyone else relied on child labor for survival. Note that the pirates have cabinboys who are likely tween or early teen age. Ashore, tweens and teens would be beachcombing, working odd jobs, or if lucky finding an apprenticeship.
The Quakers would want to add schools, but for that, you need a building, money, a teacher, books and other time, enough surplus you can afford to have people not laboring for survival, and sufficient students to fill it. That takes time to set up, and is most feasible in the bigger port cities.
>> The Motherhouses would probably have some sort of skills training. People need something to do while unable to do heavy work, it’s a good chance to diversify skills or spread useful skills, and if you already have the common space you might as well use it.<<
Agreed.
>> I can also see people using Meetinghouses for skills trainings – many Meetinghouses will be used or rented by various groups when not in use as a worship space.<<
It's a lot easier to teach with lessons, workshops, lectures, etc. on an ad hoc basis than to set up a full-time school. Likely they'd start with lessons in a Meetinghouse and then look at separating a school when needed.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-05 04:55 am (UTC)>>That will be fun.<<
Yup. ^.^
>>That's where it matters that each Meeting stands on its own.<<
People will probably talk about it a lot.
>>You'd have people in very practical work clothes,…<<
Yes. See the end of page 5 here :
https://leonardkenworthy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1985-george-fox-and-the-early-quakers.pdf
>>…frugally bought a secondhand pirate shirt with ruffles…<<
I suspect that Friend would remove the ruffles – the modern equivalent would be removing or sewing over a designer logo.
>>I don't think it would bother the Quakers.<<
You’re half right. Providing clothes /is/ a good solution…but without checks and balances, you get a Tragedy of the Commons situation, followed by the Meeting becoming upset and doing the ‘withdraw’ pattern.
You will have better luck loaning less expensive goods [shawls over full outfits] or limiting giveaways to people with a connection to the community, by which I mean they don’t want to gain a reputation as a mooch.
Also, there is a risk of patronizing behavior developing. People aren’t perfect , after all.
>>…coat or shawl…<<
Most historic Plain Dress for women does seem to involve a shawl. In research, I have heard of modern Plain Dress using aprons, waistcoats, and bonnets to cover certain features of attire. It should work equally well for hiding ‘Fancy’ as for hiding wrinkled clothes.
I also glanced at some of the west African garments on Wikipedia – some of them look like loose shirts, tunics or jackets, and would be easy to shrug on in a hurry.
Alternately, people may just get used to differing standards of nudity. If you grow up in a setting with enough variety, that will eventually seem normal…
…and here goes the ‘long discussion’ part of the process! (Quaker thing).
Also, a community laundry would be a good project.
>>But there are also advantages to wearing clothes…<<
Have a hat and unbuttoned coat you can toss off before battle, then you get sun protection /and/ the Stripperific combat ability. Add rocks in the coat pockets and you have a flail!
>>I think that some, though not necessarily all, pirate women would favor pants.<<
…and another long discussion. I think the pirates are going to see Quaker debates as the local version of a lava lamp or fishtank (calming/entertaining)?
>>And you don't want to mistake one for a whore…<<
Oh, that’s a lost cause. Probably since the distinction was invented.
I observe the /initial/ symbiosis-nexus was an alliance of women in pursuit of a common goal. How might /that/ have changed women’s roles/lived experience in the culture, especially by the 2nd or 3rd generation?
>>…with no contact in conventional life.<<
Point. However…subcultures do need to know about majority cultures, and travelers need to know about /local/ cultures. Plus we have two distinct subcultures, and even if they mix in the middle, people will need to be somewhat familiar with the idea that different people do things differently.
>>In hot climates, both sexes often wore a minimum.<<
Here I suspect clothedness may correlate highly with poverty, susceptibility to sunburn, or culture.
>>There's a South American tribe…<<
Seems like someone could find a market for such a gizmo in this culture.
>>The documentary noted "without it, he would feel very naked."<<
Messing around [analytically, not literally] with different cultural constructs of nudity (or more broadly, privacy) can be rather interesting.
>>Point.<<
Again, long circular discussion. Modern version therof : https://www.friendsjournal.org/who-gets-to-be-safe/
>>Remember that school used to be for the rich; everyone else relied on child labor for survival.<<
Point.
Though the schools did exist, even with limitations. Remember, Quaker children are being educated and if there are extra ‘spots,’ it’s reasonable that other students would be added.
>>…tween or early teen age. Ashore, tweens and teens…<<
Not chasing down folks happy with their arrangements, but if someone /is/ interested, they’ll probably be invited to learn something. Like how the Finn family teaches Shiv stuff to include him.
>>…for that, you need…<<
Formal schools and teachers will be more likely in cities, but if there’s a surplus, its reasonable to share. A lot of skills/knowledge can get spread around by knowledgeable people sharing what they can.
Also, different learning styles. While Quaker schoolhouses will start as, well, /school/, once the cultural fusion gets going there will probably be as many teaching styles as the Lacuna is using : art, stories, ballads, dance, learning-by-mimicking etc.
>>Likely they'd start with lessons in a Meetinghouse and then look at separating a school when needed.<<
Makes sense. A timeshare between school/church makes sense, since they’d be using the building at separate times. Liability issues probably wouldn’t be an issue until at least the 1800s!
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-07 06:04 pm (UTC)Logically, yes. Since they're frugal, that could lead to a business of downshifting or upshifting used clothes. After all, unless the whole garment is ostentatious (e.g. a brocade coat) it's often a matter of details like buttons (pearl vs. wood) or embellishments (ruffles sewn on) that make the difference. Thus, strip off the salvageable embellishments and sell them to someone else who wants them. That's a useful sit-down job in a high-risk, high-injury society.
>> You will have better luck loaning less expensive goods [shawls over full outfits] or limiting giveaways to people with a connection to the community, by which I mean they don’t want to gain a reputation as a mooch. <<
I was expecting the gift option to be based on a continuing relationship. Loaning a throw-over cover would work for occasional drop-ins.
>> Most historic Plain Dress for women does seem to involve a shawl. In research, I have heard of modern Plain Dress using aprons, waistcoats, and bonnets to cover certain features of attire. It should work equally well for hiding ‘Fancy’ as for hiding wrinkled clothes.<<
Layering is effective for many purposes, and thus popular across times and cultures even if the details differ.
>> I also glanced at some of the west African garments on Wikipedia – some of them look like loose shirts, tunics or jackets, and would be easy to shrug on in a hurry.<<
Sure, strip down to a loincloth for dirty work, rinse off with a bucket, and throw on your over layer.
>> Alternately, people may just get used to differing standards of nudity. If you grow up in a setting with enough variety, that will eventually seem normal…
…and here goes the ‘long discussion’ part of the process! (Quaker thing). <<
LOL yes. However, Caribbean standard will have to evolve toward less clothes than a colder climate, or people will overheat and die. The combination of heat and humidity is brutal.
>> Also, a community laundry would be a good project.<<
Agreed, and I suspect that's something the port women will be familiar with. Combine several people and you can offer a mix of vigorous and sit-down positions.
>> I observe the /initial/ symbiosis-nexus was an alliance of women in pursuit of a common goal. How might /that/ have changed women’s roles/lived experience in the culture, especially by the 2nd or 3rd generation? <<
Well, when you have a lot of them, it quickly tends to form a community. There are female pirates and male whores, but not many of each, so pirate/whore often develops into a gendered division of labor -- where "whore" spans not just sex but a whole range of other comfort services.
In other words, they managed to monetize what most women barter for shelter in a permanent relationship.
>> Point. However…subcultures do need to know about majority cultures, and travelers need to know about /local/ cultures. Plus we have two distinct subcultures, and even if they mix in the middle, people will need to be somewhat familiar with the idea that different people do things differently.<<
True, so teaching cultural diversity will benefit everyone.
>> Here I suspect clothedness may correlate highly with poverty, susceptibility to sunburn, or culture.<<
Likely so. While many pirates were European or derived from same, like the Quakers, a lot of Carribean folks were indigenous, African, Mediterranean, or diaspora. You'd have the whole range from redhead-pale to coffee-black.
>>Though the schools did exist, even with limitations. Remember, Quaker children are being educated and if there are extra ‘spots,’ it’s reasonable that other students would be added.<<
Once you have enough people, sure. Remember this is a civilization-building stage so it takes time to create the ports, and then enough of a stable population to support a school. The Quakers will be keenly interested, but they're unlikely to move in large groups. They'll settle a few at a time and reproduce.
>>Not chasing down folks happy with their arrangements, but if someone /is/ interested, they’ll probably be invited to learn something. Like how the Finn family teaches Shiv stuff to include him.<<
Exactly.
>> Also, different learning styles. While Quaker schoolhouses will start as, well, /school/, once the cultural fusion gets going there will probably be as many teaching styles as the Lacuna is using : art, stories, ballads, dance, learning-by-mimicking etc.<<
That's what the pirates contribute: alternative teaching styles. They need it, because they're a society of outcasts who routinely don't fit into standard options. This is valuable to Quakers because they too will have some kids who just don't learn well in a standard environment.
>> Makes sense. A timeshare between school/church makes sense, since they’d be using the building at separate times. Liability issues probably wouldn’t be an issue until at least the 1800s! <<
Frugality wins out. Many structures used to be multipurpose for efficiency.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-11 02:21 am (UTC)Makes sense. It’s one manifestation of modern simple dress*.
*I think of Plain Dress as the obviously religious styles
>>…brocade coat…<<
Yeah, that’s going to be way too ornate.
>>… buttons (pearl vs. wood)…<<
Buttons have been forbidden in some times and places : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_dress#cite_note-Hamm2006-24
>>…embellishments…<<
At some point, we’ll need to figure out more of the range of fashions. I imagine there will be people who stick with traditional Plain Dress, and people who prefer fancy-fashion stuff, but there will probably be a lot of interesting variations in between the two extremes – especially in the liminal areas where the two cultures merge.
>>…gift option to be based on a continuing relationship. Loaning a throw-over cover would work for occasional drop-ins.<<
We are in agreement then.
>>Layering is effective for many purposes, and thus popular across times and cultures even if the details differ.<<
Point.
>>Sure, strip down to a loincloth for dirty work, rinse off with a bucket, and throw on your over layer.<<
Sensible.
>> Alternately, people may just get used to differing standards of nudity.<<
>>LOL yes. However, Caribbean standard will have to evolve toward less…<<
Women would need more modest options if traveling elsewhere, and fair-skinned folks would need some sort of sun cover if outside. Layering with loose, fine-woven fabric might be an alternative option…
You also might be able to arrainge landscaping/architecture to have lots of shade.
>>…community laundry would be a good project.<<
>>Agreed,…<<
I think community laundries* weren’t invented until at least the mid-1800s in out world, but we did have an idea for P-Earth shipboard people-washing facilities in the 1600s-1700s, and the laundromat could be an extension of that.
By which I mean something like a laundromat. Communal washing has probably been around since forever. Hiring people to do your washing /for/ you would be authentic to the time period though…
I could imagine that a land-based bathhouse would work well as a paired business or resource with a laundromat. Less hassle if you can share the facilities for heating water, disposing of runoff, etc.
>>Well, when you have a lot of them, it quickly tends to form a community.<<
Yeah, but if that community has enough clout in the wider community /and/ continues on for multiple generations, that will likely have some impact on the wider culture, even if only by way of spreading out from kinship networks and dispersal of the kids raised there.
>>There are female pirates and male whores, but not many of each, so pirate/whore often develops into a gendered division of labor -- where "whore" spans not just sex but a whole range of other comfort services.<<
I’ve been watching a bunch of eastern media lately and it’s interesting how the depictions include people who are sex workers but sell entertainment that isn’t sex (or even sexual, by some western standards), sometimes as their main ‘service.’
I guess the range here spans sexual services, but also emotional labor services? Possibly also self-care type stuff, like hairdressing and whatnot…?
>>True, so teaching cultural diversity will benefit everyone.<<
True, though I think my original point was that the baseline level for symbiosis culture would be higher than for mainstream folks.
>> You'd have the whole range from redhead-pale to coffee-black.<<
They’ll probably be better at dealing with skincare and haircare for a wider range of diversity than most folks in L-Earth are.
>>Once you have enough people, sure. Remember this is a civilization-building stage so it takes time to create the ports, and then enough of a stable population to support a school.<<
You can have /learning/ before you have school, though.
>>The Quakers will be keenly interested, but they're unlikely to move in large groups. They'll settle a few at a time and reproduce.
Probably. You might get a larger settlement after a founding core settles in and other people immigrate (or hang around) if conditions are favorable.
However, even with a single family, if they are giving their kids lessons, they might offer lessons to the hired help’s kids, neighbor kids, etc, if there’s enough space and interest.
>>That's what the pirates contribute: alternative teaching styles. They need it, because they're a society of outcasts who routinely don't fit into standard options. This is valuable to Quakers because they too will have some kids who just don't learn well in a standard environment.<<
I’ll suggest looking at the Quakers who routinely work with pirates, or even the ones who spend time in pirate-dominant areas to find people who will acquire those skills. At least at first – eventually the ideas will blend together with the kids who are raised bicultural.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-14 08:30 pm (UTC)*I think of Plain Dress as the obviously religious styles <<
Fair enough, although I suspect it's a spectrum -- Plain Dress started out as the period clothing minus most of the frills, but as outside fashions evolved, it became more and more distinctive.
Simple / practical / modest spans a range of clothes for people of various traditions who think fashion is a waste of resources and attention.
>> Buttons have been forbidden in some times and places : <<
Fascinating! I suspect Caribbean Quakers would go for boring buttons, because they really are quite practical. Not even just for clothes, but a button with string makes a good fastener for a document folder. And buttons are cheaper than buckles.
>> At some point, we’ll need to figure out more of the range of fashions. I imagine there will be people who stick with traditional Plain Dress, and people who prefer fancy-fashion stuff, but there will probably be a lot of interesting variations in between the two extremes – especially in the liminal areas where the two cultures merge.<<
I see the relevant spectra as:
Quaker ----- Pirate
Rural Quaker ----- City Quaker
Poor ----- Wealthy
>> Women would need more modest options if traveling elsewhere, and fair-skinned folks would need some sort of sun cover if outside. Layering with loose, fine-woven fabric might be an alternative option… <<
Agreed. It's one reason parasols were practical, not just fashion frills. I would expect a large, undyed piece of linen or silk (it's lightweight, sturdy, keeps the sun off) to be popular.
>> You also might be able to arrainge landscaping/architecture to have lots of shade.<<
Hot countries do this routinely with different methods. In the Caribbean and Spanish Main, it's often bougainvillea running up walls and over pergolas. Cue the argument over whether to plant plain vines, something practical that will fruit, or the frankly whorish extravaganza that is bougainvillea in bloom. Especially since the whorehouses are probably draping themselves with it for that exact reason.
>>I think community laundries* weren’t invented until at least the mid-1800s in out world, but we did have an idea for P-Earth shipboard people-washing facilities in the 1600s-1700s, and the laundromat could be an extension of that.<<
Just because it's not recorded doesn't mean it wasn't there. I estimate the paid laundry to have emerged about the same time that humans began making fabric and living in villages. Men don't want to do it, but it's work that can be done by a pregnant or nursing woman or anyone else whose efforts are somehow limited. It was routinely a task done by prostitutes when they couldn't do their usual work. I'd look at the back of a whorehouse and expect to find a laundry drop-off. It'd be perfect for pirates. The Quakers would just by prying off the back of its original location to create a more genteel version.
>> I could imagine that a land-based bathhouse would work well as a paired business or resource with a laundromat. Less hassle if you can share the facilities for heating water, disposing of runoff, etc. <<
That's also a great idea.
>>Yeah, but if that community has enough clout in the wider community /and/ continues on for multiple generations, that will likely have some impact on the wider culture, even if only by way of spreading out from kinship networks and dispersal of the kids raised there.<<
True.
>> I’ve been watching a bunch of eastern media lately and it’s interesting how the depictions include people who are sex workers but sell entertainment that isn’t sex (or even sexual, by some western standards), sometimes as their main ‘service.’ <<
That was common in several cultures, from the geishas out east to the hetaeras in Greece.
>> I guess the range here spans sexual services, but also emotional labor services? Possibly also self-care type stuff, like hairdressing and whatnot…? <<
Exactly.
>> True, though I think my original point was that the baseline level for symbiosis culture would be higher than for mainstream folks.<<
Agreed.
>> They’ll probably be better at dealing with skincare and haircare for a wider range of diversity than most folks in L-Earth are.<<
They have to be, yes, and that's pretty common in local-Caribbean too.
>> You can have /learning/ before you have school, though.<<
Learning, sure -- trial and error, older relatives, a mentor, apprenticeship, etc. But a school requires a commitment of space, children's time, and an adult teacher on a regular basis. That usually requires a higher level of civilization and numbers to support. The only time you see it in a new settlement is when that is an offshoot of a higher-level society that expects those amenities everywhere it goes.
>> Probably. You might get a larger settlement after a founding core settles in and other people immigrate (or hang around) if conditions are favorable. <<
That's how most settlements develop, yes.
>> However, even with a single family, if they are giving their kids lessons, they might offer lessons to the hired help’s kids, neighbor kids, etc, if there’s enough space and interest.<<
True, and it's a common way for schools to develop.
>> I’ll suggest looking at the Quakers who routinely work with pirates, or even the ones who spend time in pirate-dominant areas to find people who will acquire those skills. At least at first – eventually the ideas will blend together with the kids who are raised bicultural.<<
That's what I would expect, yes.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-18 10:09 pm (UTC)Modern Quaker outfits can trend this way too, though to be fair /everyone/ is more plain than the 1600s.
Alternately, someone might focus on a different axis, like being handmade-not-corporate, or expressing one's identity.
>>Simple / practical / modest spans a range of clothes for people of various traditions who think fashion is a waste of resources and attention.<<
Yup. There are also other aspects, like it being a 'uniform' of sorts, which helps with a cohesive group identity - including confusing outsiders.
>>Fascinating!<<
Ask your Amish neighbors; I think some Amish folks still practice that style.
Also, I figured someone would kick up a fuss about the adinkra buttons we'd mentioned previously being too fancy.
>>I suspect Caribbean Quakers would go for boring buttons, because they really are quite practical.<<
I suspect they'll be closer to the mainstream then on L-Earth, since the symbiosis will by definition involve cultural exchange - including ideas and fashion.
>>...a button with string makes a good fastener for a document folder. And buttons are cheaper than buckles.<<
Also thrift & poorskills.
>>I see the relevant spectra as:<<
I'll suggest two additions :
1) There is a clear split between gendered styles this early in the time period/with conservative Plain Dress.
2) Some people may adopt a cultural fusion style outfit - i.e. a simplified version of local attire
>>...a large, undyed piece of linen or silk (it's lightweight, sturdy, keeps the sun off) to be popular.<<
Parasols might work. Hats/bonnets were common, from what I understand, though since headgear was worn indoors, there's a limit on size.
>> You also might be able to arrange landscaping/architecture to have lots of shade.<<
>>Cue the argument...<<
Probably would happen most often in mixed spaces, like the motherhouses. Or places being funded by one group and built for the other.
>>...plant plain vines, something practical that will fruit, or the frankly whorish extravaganza that is bougainvillea in bloom.<<
Meetings will probably go for boring or practical.
>>Especially since the whorehouses are probably draping themselves with it for that exact reason.<<
So that might become a signifier for a brothel. Alternately, I could see bougainvillea and similar used to mark fancy hawk houses.
>>Just because it's not recorded doesn't mean it wasn't there.<<
Point.
>>I estimate the paid laundry to have emerged about the same time that...<<
Doing laundry as a cottage-industry, yes.
Setting up a specialized building that takes in money was probably fairly late, and that’s more what I’m thinking of here. (Could have been lost with the fall of Rome, I guess.)
>>I'd look at the back of a whorehouse and expect to find a laundry drop-off.
Makes sense. They'd probably want food laundry facilities for the building, and it doesn't hurt to take in extra laundry for pay if you can spare the effort.
Laundry and mending would also be good jobs for anyone who doesn't want to or can't work in regards to selling sex.
>> The Quakers would just by prying off the back of its original location to create a more genteel version.<<
They might just add the idea to the motherhouses. Though I suppose that in some areas the brothels and motherhouses will kind of... blur together, in some ways.
>>That's also a great idea.<<
Probably they could test the bathing facilities at a motherhouse before introducing it to a ship, and we definitely planned to have some sort of ship bathing facility invented.
>>That was common in several cultures, from the geishas out east to the hetaeras in Greece.<<
Yeah, but it's different enough from our modern attitudes that I notice it.
Also, I'd say that modern geisha are hostesses/entertainers, /not/ sex workers. Originally, yes, they did spin off of entertainer-sex workers, and at points in history have sold sex, but /as the term is used today/ I consider them to be different.
>>Exactly.<<
It would be interesting to see someone who wants to do... nonsexual sex work (?), in that culture.
>>Learning, sure -- trial and error, older relatives, a mentor, apprenticeship, etc. <<
I'm looking at learning as a spectrum, from toddlers copying their favorite adults through university lectures. Schools are far towards one end...but education can be shared along the whole spectrum.
>>That's how most settlements develop, yes.<<
A lot of media doesn't have the underpinning. Thers a town/trading post/cabin because the hero needs one, not because it makes any sense.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-21 07:56 pm (UTC)I suspect they'll favor handmade, or collective-made.
>>Also, I figured someone would kick up a fuss about the adinkra buttons we'd mentioned previously being too fancy.<<
Agreed.
>>1) There is a clear split between gendered styles this early in the time period/with conservative Plain Dress.<<
True. That's part of why some pirate women dress as men.
>>2) Some people may adopt a cultural fusion style outfit - i.e. a simplified version of local attire <<
Likely.
>>Parasols might work. Hats/bonnets were common, from what I understand, though since headgear was worn indoors, there's a limit on size.<<
True. Pirates often enjoy flamboyant hats, but not everyone does. A bonnet or scarf is more practical.
>>Meetings will probably go for boring or practical.<<
Agreed.
>>So that might become a signifier for a brothel. Alternately, I could see bougainvillea and similar used to mark fancy hawk houses.<<
I'm loving this idea. :D
>>Doing laundry as a cottage-industry, yes.
Setting up a specialized building that takes in money was probably fairly late, and that’s more what I’m thinking of here. (Could have been lost with the fall of Rome, I guess.) <<
I don't think they'd set up a laundry building. I think they'd take over a building that started as something else, and just drag in whatever washtubs they could get. Customized buildings are a much more modern thing. Start as a cottage industry, out the back door of wherever made sense; and if it gets big enough, look for a place to set up more workspace.
>>They might just add the idea to the motherhouses. Though I suppose that in some areas the brothels and motherhouses will kind of... blur together, in some ways.<<
Also true.
>>Probably they could test the bathing facilities at a motherhouse before introducing it to a ship, and we definitely planned to have some sort of ship bathing facility invented.<<
Yep. The easiest is a sea-shower, but you have to rinse off with plain water afterwards, or the salt will damage skin.
>>It would be interesting to see someone who wants to do... nonsexual sex work (?), in that culture.<<
We can certainly explore that.
>>A lot of media doesn't have the underpinning. Thers a town/trading post/cabin because the hero needs one, not because it makes any sense.<<
Yeah well, most people write from the surface in. I write from the core out.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2025-04-21 09:44 pm (UTC)In modern times, handmade artsy stuff is an option, and that applies to fabrics and jewelry. I know a Quaker who made some rings for a wedding recently.
If working with specific restrictions, it is often easiest to stick with a manufacturer familiar with those issues. (Doesn't always have to be /your/ group, could be a group with the same rule or a trusted ally.)
>>Also, I figured someone would kick up a fuss about the adinkra buttons we'd mentioned previously being too fancy.<<
>>Agreed.<<
In defense of the idea 1) it is a social bonding thing, and 2) it is a clear message to other people that ‘this person is safe & under protection of a good leader.’ But yeah, fussbudgets gonna fuss.
Speaking of, did you have a chance to ask the your neighbors about buttons (if it seemed to be a appropriate/polite topic of conversation? I know my tolerance for /polite/ religious discussion is occasionally/situationally higher than average…)
>>True. That's part of why some pirate women dress as men.<<
Men’s clothes are a lot more practical sometimes. I do have a few ideas for introducing some clothes that are both practical and coded as feminine, though.
>>True. Pirates often enjoy flamboyant hats, but not everyone does.
A bonnet or scarf is more practical.<<
…for women. A disadvantage to bonnets or scarves is that they are enclosed, but a scarf is fairly uncomplicated. I think Quaker men stuck with hats, though at some point they shifted from Oatmeal Guy style to something more like what the Amish would wear.
I’ll also suggest that eventually someone will adopt various sorts of tied-kerchief or tied-scarf fabric that goes around the hair, but doesn’t necessarily cover the whole head. Maybe toss a loose(r) scarf over top… probably adopted from African diaspora cultural soup. /That/ would have the advantage of needing less sewing or preparation than a bonnet or hat…but if working in the sun all day, you would want a hat with a brim.
Well, we can play around with fashion later.
>>So that might become a signifier for a brothel. Alternately, I could see bougainvillea and similar used to mark fancy hawk houses.<<
>>I'm loving this idea. :D<<
Which half? ;)
(Also if it is ‘both’…eventually someone will mistake the local fancy house for a ‘Fancy House.’)
>>I don't think they'd set up a laundry building. I think they'd take over a building that started as something else, and just drag in whatever washtubs they could get.<<
Point, at least at first.
I would expect some customized laundries by the late 1700’s early 1800’s – the age of Quaker capitalists (i.e. Cadbury) was in the 1800s.
>>Customized buildings are a much more modern thing. Start as a cottage industry, out the back door of wherever made sense; and if it gets big enough, look for a place to set up more workspace.<<
You’d need it at least customized enough to not have standing water, or grow mold. (Anything outside in Florida/the Carribean that stands still long enough will grow mold...)
An open-air tent might work (/if/ the water could drain somewhere), though if attached to a brothel you’d want some assurance that drunk troublemakers won’t show up and cause trouble, so set up in a locked courtyard or with some of the people there able to rout drunken nuisances.
It is also worth considering if the wastewater would contaminate anything downstream. If that was a known issue, Quakers would probably try to avoid it…eventually.
And depending on the contemporary ideas of hygiene, medical laundries might be fussier. Or they might not. (“Germs? Whazzat? Can you eat ‘em?”)
>>Probably they could test the bathing facilities at a motherhouse before introducing it to a ship, and we definitely planned to have some sort of ship bathing facility invented.<<
>>Motherhouses will probably have dedicated laundries once they start being built-for-purpose. (Check out Shaker laundries, if you can.)
Diapers would /definitely/ motivate advancements in washing…
>>Yep. The easiest is a sea-shower, but you have to rinse off with plain water afterwards, or the salt will damage skin.<<
The challenge would be /getting/ the plain water…easiest way would be solar distillation, though if they have a fire going they could probably boil seawater, too. Somewhere there’s a Moana fanfic where they all took to the sea and had to invent, essentially, water-distilling teapots.
>>It would be interesting to see someone who wants to do... nonsexual sex work (?), in that culture.<<
>>We can certainly explore that.<<
…and there has got to be a less awkward/wordy way of phrasing that.
In-universe there’s probably some slang term…probably originally a rude one from the pirate side.
>>Yeah well, most people write from the surface in. I write from the core out.<<
Yup, and it is very nice. I just get a little thrown sometimes when I am more used to regular media.
And while talking about irregular media, I am eager to hear what you think of the xenoanthropology story link I sent you – the xenopsychology was fascinating, and the relationship dynamics felt very realistic to me.