Gender-Neutral: Ur Doin It Rong
Dec. 7th, 2024 07:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithAB-1084: Gender Neutral Retail in California
Beginning January 1, 2024, large department stores in California must maintain gender neutral displays of toys and other items for children.
'Full Stasi': Consumers told to snitch on stores that don't have enough 'gender-neutral' toys
"If you do not see an adequate gender-neutral product section in a large retail department store in California that you believe is covered by this law, you may take pictures, document, and file a complaint with our office."
A link is provided to report offenders.
The fine for a first-time violation is $250, which goes to $500 for a second offense.
This is the kind of nonsense that makes people think laws are stupid, and hate feminists or gender-diverse people. Because the law is stupid, abusive, and ruinous to a functional society.
Having gender-neutral toys and materials is great. Many traditional toys (e.g. blocks, marbles, Legos, board games) are gender-neutral unless someone goes out of their way to gender-code them (which many companies do). Things like clothes and plates should be available in neutral colors, solid or with simple patterns (e.g. stripes, dots), as well as gender-coded things that are pink/blue with gender-stereotypical designs on them. Choice is good.
Forcing your choices on other people is not good. It's especially harsh on retailers in a massively sexist society where many companies cender-code everything, and things genuinely designed as gender-neutral are harder to find and often more expensive. Even for adults it's not particularly easy. T-shirts used to be all unisex but modern ones are often gendered -- and in fact, so badly that feminine versions only tend to fit teens. There's rarely enough room in a women's T-shirt for adult boobs. :/
Plus of course, adding a gender-neutral category strongly reinforces the idea that the gendered aisles contain things ONLY for boys or for girls. Children can already get really rigid about that, and this will make it worse.
Another serious problem is the law doesn't define "enough." It doesn't say "at least one storage unit (e.g. a shelf or a bin)," or "at least 10% of the gendered supply." It's deliberately vague, which means anyone can complain that any amount is "not enough."
The most effective way to avoid getting fined, therefore, is to quit selling children's things altogether. Note that the law requires a separate section for gender-neutral meaning you can't just say "all toys are for anyone who wants them." Besides, parents and kids both hate that; it's been tried and the only consumers who like it are the ones who are trying to de-gender everything, which is better served by a specialty store since it's a very minority taste in this culture. Plus it's more work and more expense, precisely because it's unpopular. Manufacturers overgender stuff because people buy it.
You want gender-neutral stuff? That's great. Shop accordingly. But don't use it to bully other people. And maybe don't shop from California.
34 Gender Neutral Kids Clothing Brands
Best Gender-Neutral Toys for Kids in 2024: Play Without Limits
Waldorf toys are generally made for all children, and sorted by age or category (e.g. blocks, stuffed animals) rather than gender. Same with Montessori toys.
Beginning January 1, 2024, large department stores in California must maintain gender neutral displays of toys and other items for children.
'Full Stasi': Consumers told to snitch on stores that don't have enough 'gender-neutral' toys
"If you do not see an adequate gender-neutral product section in a large retail department store in California that you believe is covered by this law, you may take pictures, document, and file a complaint with our office."
A link is provided to report offenders.
The fine for a first-time violation is $250, which goes to $500 for a second offense.
This is the kind of nonsense that makes people think laws are stupid, and hate feminists or gender-diverse people. Because the law is stupid, abusive, and ruinous to a functional society.
Having gender-neutral toys and materials is great. Many traditional toys (e.g. blocks, marbles, Legos, board games) are gender-neutral unless someone goes out of their way to gender-code them (which many companies do). Things like clothes and plates should be available in neutral colors, solid or with simple patterns (e.g. stripes, dots), as well as gender-coded things that are pink/blue with gender-stereotypical designs on them. Choice is good.
Forcing your choices on other people is not good. It's especially harsh on retailers in a massively sexist society where many companies cender-code everything, and things genuinely designed as gender-neutral are harder to find and often more expensive. Even for adults it's not particularly easy. T-shirts used to be all unisex but modern ones are often gendered -- and in fact, so badly that feminine versions only tend to fit teens. There's rarely enough room in a women's T-shirt for adult boobs. :/
Plus of course, adding a gender-neutral category strongly reinforces the idea that the gendered aisles contain things ONLY for boys or for girls. Children can already get really rigid about that, and this will make it worse.
Another serious problem is the law doesn't define "enough." It doesn't say "at least one storage unit (e.g. a shelf or a bin)," or "at least 10% of the gendered supply." It's deliberately vague, which means anyone can complain that any amount is "not enough."
The most effective way to avoid getting fined, therefore, is to quit selling children's things altogether. Note that the law requires a separate section for gender-neutral meaning you can't just say "all toys are for anyone who wants them." Besides, parents and kids both hate that; it's been tried and the only consumers who like it are the ones who are trying to de-gender everything, which is better served by a specialty store since it's a very minority taste in this culture. Plus it's more work and more expense, precisely because it's unpopular. Manufacturers overgender stuff because people buy it.
You want gender-neutral stuff? That's great. Shop accordingly. But don't use it to bully other people. And maybe don't shop from California.
34 Gender Neutral Kids Clothing Brands
Best Gender-Neutral Toys for Kids in 2024: Play Without Limits
Waldorf toys are generally made for all children, and sorted by age or category (e.g. blocks, stuffed animals) rather than gender. Same with Montessori toys.
California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-08 05:05 am (UTC)First off, this looks like a law that will disproportionately affect the poor.
The places that split harshest into BOY toys and GIRL toys are Target and CVS, not boutiques.
The toy stores that are somewhat, or even largely gender-neutral are far more expensive (likely assuming that the people buying are rich enough to consider gender-neutrality a selling point).
Alternately, you can buy gender-neutral toys via an educational toy voucher -- which you would likely only get if you have the time, energy, space, etc. to commit to homeschooling.
Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-08 05:33 am (UTC)Yeah, me too. Legos, Lincoln Logs, various blocks, and plastic farm animals were my favorites. I had a few dolls, a fair bit of science toys, some stuffed animals, and a ton of books.
>> so I was lucky enough to not have to deal with gendered toys,<<
It wasn't luck. My hippie parents ransacked every museum, zoo, and other cultural exhibit across several states to find culturally diverse, science and nature oriented, nongendered toys and books for me. At the time it was hard to find the cultural mix, but at least it was before the worst of the gendercoding.
>> but this is ridiculous.<<
Yeah. This shit makes matters worse.
>>First off, this looks like a law that will disproportionately affect the poor.
The places that split harshest into BOY toys and GIRL toys are Target and CVS, not boutiques.<<
Exactly.
>> The toy stores that are somewhat, or even largely gender-neutral are far more expensive (likely assuming that the people buying are rich enough to consider gender-neutrality a selling point).<<
You can pretty much add at least one zero.
>>Alternately, you can buy gender-neutral toys via an educational toy voucher -- which you would likely only get if you have the time, energy, space, etc. to commit to homeschooling.<<
I agree that educational toys are often the best, hence linking Waldorf and Montessori ones.
On the other hoof, poor kids have a different advantage, which is learning to make their own toys and games. I played with sticks and rocks a lot. So as an adult, I know how to go find a stick that will make good craft materials; one of my window dangles uses a great piece of what's basically terrestrial driftwood. :D
There used to be this massive toy store in St. Louis called Children's Palace. There were a few aisles for toys that were designed for girls or boys. But there were also other categories -- sections for stuffed animals, science toys, furniture like playhouses, construction toys, all the dressup stuff was together, so was all the under-3 baby stuff, and so on. Even combined, the gender aisles weren't all that much, maybe a quarter of the store at most.
Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-08 05:41 am (UTC)That is something I was accustomed to, although as a homeschooled lower-middle-class child, rather than a poor one. The more tech slides into the sea, the more grateful I am that I had that opportunity to learn during my formative years.
Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-08 05:56 am (UTC)Oh yeah. I've always had a love of historic tools and techniques. I rely on them more and more as technology moves out of what I can use comfortably.
If I wanted to encourage genderfree products? I'd use a carrot, not a stick.
* Establish grants for startup businesses that plan to make genderfree products. Ideally, provide mentors and networking too.
* For department stores choosing to set a gender-neutral section, offer a subsidy to reduce the cost of expensive educational toys that are not gendered. And hey, connect the new businesses with the dapartment stores!
* When allocating spaces (e.g. in a flea market or street fair) give priority locations to booths selling genderfree products, and relegate the gendered stuff to less-prime territory. It's still there if you really want it. Just like you should put the booths selling fruit smoothies, shakeups, walking salads, and barbecue at the center cross but the sodas and funnel cakes in lower-traffic areas.
It's the kind of thing Terramagne-America would do, because they're more gender-inclusive than here, and also smarter. Feel free to prompt for it if you wish. Though I have to admit, my favorite brand is probably Tomboy Sawyer, which is a company that makes sturdy play clothes for tomboys (or boys, or other genders, but the tomboys are the target market).
Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-11 08:07 pm (UTC)Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-11 10:16 pm (UTC)Hand-me-downs are more influenced by children and adults. In fact, families that rely heavily on them tend to prefer buying clothes that with little or no distinction, so they'll buy neutral or nongendered colors and avoid splashy decorations that another child might reject. This makes a good environment for nicer clothes as gifts, when a child can pick out something special like a colorful sweater or character T-shirt.
Re: California (Knows How to Party)
Date: 2024-12-12 01:04 am (UTC)I /have/ seen a gender-segregated clothing giveaway charity (toys were mixed together.) For what it's worth, that was in a liberal area in a conservative state. The clothes were also sorted by size (and overall their system was very well organized.)
>>Hand-me-downs are more influenced by children and adults. In fact, families that rely heavily on them tend to prefer buying clothes that with little or no distinction, so they'll buy neutral or nongendered colors and avoid splashy decorations that another child might reject. <<
Well, also keep in mind areas where families will donate or otherwise pass along kid stuff outside of the family. That might have less strict limits on gender, decor, etc, because there will be a wider pool of possible recipients.
I've occasionally been a sort of 'broker' [though unpaid] where someone is tossing/donating something (kid things or otherwise) and I will ask for it to pass along to someone else who might like it. If you know families with kids who move in different social environments, it can be fairly easy to do with kid stuff.
(no subject)
Date: 2024-12-09 03:26 am (UTC)Over and over again it's "right problem, wrong solution".
>> Another serious problem is the law doesn't define "enough."
AUUUUUGH!
Vaguely defined "I know it when I see it" laws are THE WORST for actual enforcement.
Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 03:42 am (UTC)Re: Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 03:58 am (UTC)Re: Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 04:30 am (UTC)Re: Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 04:36 am (UTC)But there's no reason bad actors couldn't take advantage of someone else with good intentions executed poorly. They love doing that.
Re: Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 05:32 am (UTC)Which of course, applies to the gender-neutral toy sections too.
Re: Well ...
Date: 2024-12-09 05:41 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2024-12-11 08:05 pm (UTC)When stocking a kidspace (which I've done) I try for mostly gender-neutral stuff, but will add in stuff that is useful for learning. Even if some of the things (like toy plates, toy cats, or a building kit) might have gendered connotations, I figure having a balance of those sorts of toys and not policing who uses them is the best option. (I do avoid buying obviously pink-and-blue-coded stuff).
>>Note that the law requires a separate section for gender-neutral meaning you can't just say "all toys are for anyone who wants them."<<
Honestly, I'd think removing the pink/blue packaging, adding more gender diverse pictures on the packaging, and sorting toys by category would be sufficient to desegregate the toy section. Though to be fair, I haven't been to an official toy store in ages.
Yes ...
Date: 2024-12-11 10:26 pm (UTC)Me too. I strongly favor classics because they can be used in so many different ways -- blocks, Legos, stuffed animals, etc. plus books of course. I admit to a fondness for the Waldorf and Montessori educational toys/tools and may buy them if I can find and afford them.
I still find it weird to see tree blocks / slices in stores at exorbitant prices. When I was little, that was something people made in the garage after a big brush-clearing or a tree fell down, and then would distribute to all the kids in their social circle. Hence why I wrote that in at Boss Blaster's pocket parks with someone just depositing batches of them, and it didn't matter if they "walked away" because there's always more raw material around.
>> When stocking a kidspace (which I've done) I try for mostly gender-neutral stuff, but will add in stuff that is useful for learning. Even if some of the things (like toy plates, toy cats, or a building kit) might have gendered connotations, I figure having a balance of those sorts of toys and not policing who uses them is the best option. (I do avoid buying obviously pink-and-blue-coded stuff).<<
That's logical. Kids need choices. I heartily approve of the new genderflexy dolls that can be coded either way. Waldorf dolls are like that, if you feel that anyone can have long or short hair. The clothes and other accessories tend to fit all the dolls so you can mix and match. The minimalist features are meant to encourage imagination.
>>Honestly, I'd think removing the pink/blue packaging, adding more gender diverse pictures on the packaging, and sorting toys by category would be sufficient to desegregate the toy section. Though to be fair, I haven't been to an official toy store in ages.<<
I agree that removing pink/blue packaging is a good idea for toys that are nongendered like blocks or Legos. Some things really are marketed for one or the other, like makeup blending kits; I don't consider it fair to ban those. More gender diverse pictures would be good in general. I have, indeed, seen toy stores that sorted most or all things by category and I have found that more useful. Our last regular toy store had only topical categories -- building toys, science toys, puzzles, board games, etc. That was (don't laugh) Dr. G's Brain Store. I think there were a few gender-coded items scattered around but most of the stock was genderfree. That was an all-ages store though, and heavily targeting nerds who tend not to crotchify everything like most people do.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2024-12-12 01:29 am (UTC)Most people don't have shop skills anymore. (Or a workshop.) Cutting wood is something I am not terribly comfortable with, and currently have to outsource (due to a lack of tools/workspace.)
>>That's logical. Kids need choices. <<
I figure having a kitchen set and a toolset (without pink-and-blue-code) covers useful life skills without pushing anyone towards being a housewife or handyman.
>>Some things really are marketed for one or the other, like makeup blending kits; I don't consider it fair to ban those.<<
It did sound like they were talking about overall toys in the store, not "each individual category /must/ have [sufficient]% of genderfree stuff."
Still, they don't have to be just pink, or just marketed towards girls. I wasn't usually fond of Girly-Girl Pink for parts of my childhood/teenagerhood. And I'm sure there are genderqueer kids who would like a less-gendered version...not to mention the cisgender boys who use makeup to socialize with female friends or relatives.
Heck, one could do a genderfree one by :
1) using a more gender-neutral design and color for the case (includes having mixed-gender groups on packaging)
2) filling it with some traditional skintone stuff, some traditional flashy/girly stuff (glitters, pinks, bright colors), and some stuff aking to theater makeup.
3) Add a how-to booklet (or these days a YouTube link) that explains basics of application skills and a few basic designs. the designs should include stuff that is feminine (gold glitter eyelids), neutral (how to touch up your face) and a few fun things that are...less traditional (like rock band makeup).
>>I think there were a few gender-coded items scattered around but most of the stock was genderfree. That was an all-ages store though, and heavily targeting nerds who tend not to crotchify everything like most people do.<<
I could see buying lab gear clothing that is fitted for a female body. Or heck, some tools could be better designed. But yeah, mostly a microscope will work regardless of the gender of the user, and it's better to get a good telescope than a pink (or blue) one. (Ans anyway, at kid's level science, you can always slap some princess or dinosaur stickers on stuff if you /really/ want to.)
And the kidspace stuff I put together tends to be for varying ages too (though the groups are small enough it isn't uncommon to have clusters for age or gender).