Wednesday TV Series (The Addams Family) Interesting Aspects

[ysabetwordsmith]

As part of the March Meta Matters challenge over on marchmetamatterschallenge, I've written about the recent series Wednesday. All links have been archived with the Wayback Machine and/or Archive.fo. Below I discuss some interesting aspects of the show.

* Overview
* Interesting Aspects
* Episodes
* Promising Crossovers
* Relevant Dreamwidth Communities
* Memorable Fanworks


Interesting Aspects

Wednesday offers many interesting aspects to inspire fanworks. If you make art, crafts, vanvids, or other visual materials then you will probably appreciate the detailed sets and costumes along with the graphic special effects. If you make fanfic or other written materials, then you will likely love the complex and dynamic characters moving through a mysterious plot. The series provides a mix of common motifs along with much rarer ones. Below I have touched on some of the features I find intrigueing and provided some resources about them.

The Addams family is very mixed. Gomez is clearly Latino, so Wednesday and Pugsley are too. Uncle Fester is typically presented as Gomez' older brother, hence Latino. Morticia's ethnicity is unspecified, but usually white. Other characters like Lurch generally have unspecified ethnicity too, leaning white. Thing is a whole different type of being, although past canon indicates there are other Hands as well. Given the scarcity of Latin heritage in entertainment, it's nice to have a mixed family with occasional onscreen references to their culture. In this regard, Wednesday offers a great opportunity for fans who want to fill that gap. You have multiple canon characters to explore and can easily bring in others. Consider Gothic concepts of race and interracial marriage.

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The Do’s and Dont’s of writing a biracial/multiracial character

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How to Write Latino Characters Without Offending Latino Readers

How to write a Latinx character and other questions


During a tour of the Nevermore Academy campus, Enid Sinclair explains to Wednesday that there are four main groups of students: Fangs (vampires), Furs (werewolves), Stoners (gorgons), and Scales (sirens). These are the character types numerous enough to form groups within the student body and to appear in clusters with others of their kind. However, the series so far has not done much with the rivalries or alliances among those groups. For fans of "high school" fanworks, this offers great potential for further development, as you can fill in the teen politics however you like. Of the four types, two are widespread in fiction (werewolves and vampires), one is less common (sirens or merfolk), and one is downright rare outside of mythology (gorgons). Vampires especially starred in Gothic fiction. So you have a range of common tropes to explore, as well as areas with a lot of leeway to make up your own cultures and customs for the less-famous groups.

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Who Were the Gorgons in Ancient Greek Mythology?

Writing About: Vampires

Writing From an Authentic Teen Viewpoint

Writing Prompts about Vampires -- All Write Alright


In addition to the four main groups at Nevermore Academy, this series and the larger canon include a wide range of other character types and talents. So far Wednesday has featured Wednesday Addams and Morticia Addams (who have psychic visions), Uncle Fester (with electrokinesis), Thing (a magically animated hand), Principal Weems (shapeshifter), Xavier Thorpe, (who can make his art come to life), Eugene Ottinger (who controls bees), Rowan Laslow (with telekinesis), Tyler Galpin, Francoise Galpin, and Olga Malacova (Hydes). Gothic entertainment is rife with magic and the occult, the uncanny and supernatural, doubling, dopplegangers, monstrosities, madness, and visions. This show uses classic, freestyle magic that can do just about anything as seen with Thing who exists as a severed hand. This diversity means you can throw in pretty much any kind of mystical creature, character type, or event that you want without worrying too much about clashing with canon or logic or whatever. Go nuts, have fun. This series just begs to have giant, carnivorous rabbits. Release the plotbunnies!

Hard Magic System vs Soft Magic System

List of legendary creatures by type -- Wikipedia

List of Monsters -- WikiLists Fandom

Magic Fantasy Writing Demystified: The Secrets of Magic System Writing

Making Soft Magic Systems Work

Story Ideas Part II: Life on Earth

Story Ideas Part III: Biology

Story Ideas Part IV: Monsters

Story Ideas Part V: Superhuman Abilities

Story Ideas Part VI: Psychic Abilities

Story Ideas Part VII: The Mind

Story Ideas Part VIII: Travel

Story Ideas Part X: Fantasy

Supernatural and Madness in Victorian Gothic Literature

Superpower Wiki

Tips On How to Write a Shape-Shifting Character (For both fanfic writers and original content writers)

Ultimate List of Psychic Abilities & Types of Psychic Powers

Wednesday: Every Addams Family Member's Powers Explained

Who (and What) Is the Hyde in Netflix's 'Wednesday'?

Writing Characters with Dissociative Identity Disorder

Writing Multiplicity


Wednesday presents an extensive supply of strong, interesting, female characters. Most of the time, women and female characters are underrepresented in the media and entertainment. That makes it hard to create more balanced fanworks without adding original female characters, which some readers dislike. Wikipedia lists 12 main characters of whom 7 are female: Wednesday Addams, Principal Weems, Dr. Valerie Kinbott, Enid Sinclair, Bianca Barclay, Yoko Tanaka, and Marilyn Thornhill (born Laurel Gates). Of the 4 recurring characters, 1 is female: Ritchie Santiago. Of the 9 guest stars listed, 1 is female: Morticia Addams. Goody Addams is not listed. Regrettably two of the adult women -- Dr. Valerie Kinbott and Principal Weems -- died during Season 1. The fate of Marilyn Thornhill is more ambiguous. (No body = not dead.) But fanfic routinely ignores inconvenient deaths or disappearances, so that's no problem. Enid most readily pairs with Wednesday, and Principal Weems with Dr. Valerie Kinbott or Marilyn Thornhill, but many possibilities are available.

This show makes a flying pass of the Bechdel test as multiple female characters frequently talk to each other about their friendship or rivalry, or about monsters. There are just so many possibilities, both in the canonical examples and fannish alternatives. Gothic fiction makes much of female sexuality, love, and motherhood. It has always included a queer branch, too. Bring on the femslash!

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How to Write an Asexual Character

How to Write Lesbian Erotica: 10 Steps (with Pictures) -- wikiHow

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'Wednesday' Cast and Character Guide: Who’s Who in the 'Addams Family' Netflix Series

'Wednesday' Season 2 Fan Theories: Clues, Hints, Spoilers

Who Is Goody Addams? 'Wednesday's Witchy Ancestor Explained


The show also provides a variety of characters with disabilities, in an industry with little representation of disability, let alone anything well done. Wednesday has seizure-like visions that are unpleasant at best, and dangerous at worst if she falls badly. She also shows blunted or flat affect, which rarely appears alone but usually comes along with some other mental issue. She may also show incongruent affect, feeling or expressing emotions that clash with the context or social expectations. Thing is a Hand, which creates a variety of challenges due to tiny size and limited or at least different mobility. He is also nonspeaking and communicates through signs, gestures, and perhaps some empathic enhancement. Another far-out example is the Faceless, who have no facial features such as eyes or mouths. They seem to function fine (navigating, eating, etc.) but will experience discrimination over their appearance, as do people who lost their facial wholeness to illness or injury. As canon hasn't done much with them yet, fanwriters have flexibility in whether to write this as a facial difference or a facial disability. Lurch sometimes speaks, sometimes doesn't. This may be a mindful choice of a laconic personality, or it could be an intermittent disability. Enid Sinclair, a werewolf, starts out unable to "wolf out" and upset about that, with a lot of family tension about it. This is a type of fictional disability. However, toward the end of the series she does manage to shift, so that disability only applies in earlier episodes. Hydes (Tyler Galpin, Francoise Galpin, and Olga Malacova) manifest as monstrosities due to extreme mental trauma, and also seem nonspeaking while in Hyde form (although they can speak in human form). That's not a very sensitive portrayal in the show, but they do make formidable antagonists. Various other mental issues can be hypothesized due to traumatic events or sociodynamics, and conveniently there is a therapist (Dr. Valerie Kinbott) for anyone wanting to write about therapy.

Wednesday probably passes the Fries test for portrayal of disabled characters, but it depends how you count. Multiple disabled characters talk to each other, mostly about plot points other than disabilities. Enid eventually overcomes her disability by learning to shapeshift, but the others don't shed theirs. There are still multiple characters with disabilities at the end of the season. So it's really a great demonstration of how having lots of disabled characters allows you to do more things without losing your only bit of representation.

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Discussion: Fictional Disabilities

Ending the taboo of soldiers with 'broken faces'

Gestures And Sign Languages

Going Nonverbal

A Hidden Community: The Movement for Face Equality

Home Sign

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WHAT IS FLATTENING OF AFFECT IN FILM? (In the Entertainment industry.)

Why do I go nonverbal?


A leading source of conflict pits town against school, normies against outcasts -- basically two different aspects of the same dispute. They claim to stand apart, but really they're so enmeshed that it smacks a lot of dysfunctional family dynamics. In fact, some relatonships cross those lines in the series, as with Francoise Galpin (Hyde) and Donovan Galpin (normie). However, outcasts rarely call themselves outcasts; they usually have a different name such as "special" or "gifted." So fanwriters are free to come up with their own alternative. Gothic fiction deals a lot with colonialism, otherness, othering, and xenophobia so you have a rich tradition to draw on when exploring this conflict. Also, fictional outcasts (e.g. werewolves, vampires) often stand in for other types of outcasts (e.g. queerfolk, foreigners) and this is a big part of Gothic entertainment too. It gives you great opportunity for intersectionality.

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A key villain of Season 1 is Joseph Crackstone, a Pilgrim from the 1600s who played a major role in settling the land where Jericho and Nevermore Academy now stand. He was a genocidal maniac, shown murdering dozens of people in canon and described as trying to wipe out all Outcasts. Originally, he was opposed by Goody Addams, a witch and ancestress of Wednesday Addams. (Note that "Goody" isn't a first name. It's a title, approximately equivalent to Mrs. and short for "Goodwife.") Goody killed him and locked him in a cursed coffin, but eventually Marilyn Thornhill (born Laurel Gates) released him as a zombie. I'm delighted to see a Pilgrim portrayed, openly and explicitly, as an evil person and later a monster obssessed with wiping out those different from himself. There is also a brief but promising reference to the Outcasts living in peace with local tribes in the past, which the Pilgrims then disrupted. This offers interesting potential for alternate universe storylines.

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Comments

[greghousesgf]

Thank you for pointing out Goody isn't a first name, however, for some reason the show uses it as if it were.
How do the people with no faces breathe?

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>Thank you for pointing out Goody isn't a first name, however, for some reason the show uses it as if it were.<<

Common mistake. An unfamiliar title is often mistaken for a first name.

>> How do the people with no faces breathe? <<

Canon says very little about the Faceless. They are among the most mystical characters because, like Thing, they don't have a logical basis for existing in that form. However, we can infer some things from how they behave. It seems like they can see and hear somehow, or else they have alternate senses that serve the same general purpose. One appears holding a plate of food, so either they can eat or they pretend that they can for social reasons. There are two basic options:

1) They ingest food in some unusual manner. They might absorb it through their skin, or evert a digestive organ, or even have something like a mouth elsewhere on their bodies.

2) They don't actually eat regular food, but rather obtain energy in some other fashion, most likely magic.

Since canon has shown almost nothing beyond their existence thus far, fans are free to make up any limitations or abilities they wish. That can make for awesome fanfic.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

Well, if uncertain, reciting a full name-and-title as best as you can is better than trying to disassemble it into meaningful chunks. (remember Avatar, where Jake got introduced as Jakesully of the Jarhead Clan).

Though a really long name might get shortened to the first few syllables.

Also, messing with acceptable titles can be very tricky, as choosing the wrong one can be very offensive, or even start a fight. There's some Harry Potter fanfics where purebloods are offended at mastery-less Muggleborns wanting to be called Mr. and Miss. In Real Life, leaving off the Dr. title for female physicians often leads to people assuming the woman is a nurse, not a doctor.

And I have at least one funny story where someone thought I might be in danger...based on an out-of-context snippet of a conversation where someone was asking me about what title/form of address was polite for them to use when talking to me.

There's a reason why I like to go over foreign language titles and polite forms of adress in early lessons, along with yes / no / please / thank you and emergency stuff.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>Well, if uncertain, reciting a full name-and-title as best as you can is better than trying to disassemble it into meaningful chunks. <<

True, and that probably is how it got started in this case.

>> (remember Avatar, where Jake got introduced as Jakesully of the Jarhead Clan).<<

LOL yes.

>> Though a really long name might get shortened to the first few syllables.<<

Common with "monster" style names that are difficult or impossible for humans to pronounce, too.


>> Also, messing with acceptable titles can be very tricky, as choosing the wrong one can be very offensive, or even start a fight. <<

True.

>>There's some Harry Potter fanfics where purebloods are offended at mastery-less Muggleborns wanting to be called Mr. and Miss.<<

It fits.

>> In Real Life, leaving off the Dr. title for female physicians often leads to people assuming the woman is a nurse, not a doctor.<<

Suzette Haden Elgin used to tell a story about that, where a male doctor said he called his male colleagues by their first names so why couldn't he do that with his female colleagues. Suzette explained, "Because then the patients think they are nurses." Thing is, nobody else had noticed that before. It took a linguist to point it out.


>>There's a reason why I like to go over foreign language titles and polite forms of adress in early lessons, along with yes / no / please / thank you and emergency stuff.<<

This setting offers so many opportunities for cross-cultural storylines. I'd love to see any of the student groups explaining to someone, "My people do X because Y." They did touch on food allergies with vampires allergic to garlic.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

>>It fits.<<

Actually, I'd think that in that setting, /wand-users/ would get called Master/Mistress or one of the variations. Squibs and people forbidden from carrying would be stuck with another title which would both be othering and cause cultural confusion between traditionalist old families and Muggleborns.

Hmm, now that I think of it - Hagrid and Firenze were both 'Professor,' but socially a don't seem to use honorifics. I don't remember if Argus Filch ever got called 'Mr' or anything else. Goblins, house-elves, and centaurs (except Firenze) are never addressed with honorifics.

Professor Flitwick has a wand and is a teacher, despite goblin heritage. Fleur is 'Miss,' and also has wand rights, but I don't think we hear about her mother or grandmother (and France may have different laws). Mrs. Figg is a squib, but she lives among Muggles and presumably uses Muggle rules.

Fenrir Greyback doesn't seem to use a title or have a wand, but half-blood wand-carrying Lupin uses 'Mr.' socially and 'Professor' when teaching.

Madam may indicate a special status, everyone in canon using that title seems to be very repected and have wand-rights (Madam Malkin, Madam Marchbanks, and Madam Longbottom).

The students seem to drop the use of honorifics amongst themselves, but I think that is how modern British works in that context (not completely sure as I am not British).

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of sumptuary law too, where only qualified wand-carriers get to use certain materials or wear certain styles of clothing.

>>Suzette Haden Elgin used to tell a story about that, where a male doctor said he called his male colleagues by their first names so why couldn't he do that with his female colleagues. Suzette explained, "Because then the patients think they are nurses." Thing is, nobody else had noticed that before. It took a linguist to point it out.<<

I think that's where I read it.

Also, it isn't that no one noticed the problem. The doctrixes had noticed enough that they could pinpoint (by feeling uncomfortable) that there was a problem /and/ what they needed their coworkers to do in order to fix it.

They only needed a linguist to articulate it in a way that the other people could understand, because the other people didn't consider "this bothers me" to be a 'good enough' reason.

>>This setting offers so many opportunities for cross-cultural storylines. I'd love to see any of the student groups explaining to someone, "My people do X because Y." They did touch on food allergies with vampires allergic to garlic.<<

Scary Godmother did that...along with a very dramatic reaction and someone with a cooler head defusing it. Oh, and the vampire patriarch complaining about his wife's outfit because 'you can practically see her ankles!' to which at least three other characters point out that their ankles are clearly visible too!

There was the plotline of 'asking your ex-girlfriend to hypnotize you out of romantic feelings for someone else after you broke up with her for maybe messing with your feelings with her powers' comes to mind, but that seems to be more teenage stupidity than a cultural difference.

Enid and Ajax may provide some examples too. He seemed to be embarrassed about accidentally petrifying himself; and he also seemed helpfully clueless about her Power Incontinence when she started shapeshifting. Meanwhile, she didn't seem to want to get into discussing her shapeshifting issues with her new boyfriend. (To be fair, this is likely a mix of cultural differences, teenage hormones, and new-relationship akwardness.)

[see_also_friend]

>>How do the people with no faces breathe?<<

Frogs and bugs can breathe through their skin, if I remember correctly.

Sector General has an alien species that eats through their skin - they spray each other with food-paint in order to eat.

It is also possible they do have some sort of sensory/breathing/eating organs on their face but it is disguised for some reason (think like a magical burka / veil.) Possible reasons for a disguise could be cultural, or it could be that whatever features they have are distracting or dangerous to others.

[greghousesgf]

I looked this up and some species of salamander also breathe through their skin, and can breathe underwater.

Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Most amphibians breathe both through their lungs and through their skin. However, the skin has to stay wet in order for that to work. The Faceless seem to have dry skin typical of mammals, which makes me suspect a mystical solution.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Frogs and bugs can breathe through their skin, if I remember correctly.<<

Amphibians require moist skin to breath that way, and the Faceless seem dry, although we haven't gotten a close look at them.

However, insects breaths through tiny inconspicuous spicules. That's a very good hypothesis for a physical breathing apparatus for the Faceless. They might simply be covered with breathing pores.

>> Sector General has an alien species that eats through their skin - they spray each other with food-paint in order to eat.<<

Yeah, I thought about something like that. Absorption is a logical possibility.

>> It is also possible they do have some sort of sensory/breathing/eating organs on their face but it is disguised for some reason (think like a magical burka / veil.) Possible reasons for a disguise could be cultural, or it could be that whatever features they have are distracting or dangerous to others.<<

That could be.

My other main idea for eating is that they might evert a digestive organ over the food, as some animals do. In its resting position it simply looks like they have no mouth.

[see_also_friend]

>>Wednesday presents an extensive supply of strong, interesting, female characters. Most of the time, women and female characters are underrepresented in the media and entertainment. <<

You'd think this would shift as we get more women authors, though I suspect that social convention would lag behind simple demographics.

>>Wednesday has seizure-like visions that are unpleasant at best, and dangerous at worst if she falls badly. <<

'Falling sickness' has long been thought to connect to mystical or religious experiences.

>>As canon hasn't done much with them yet, fanwriters have flexibility in whether to write this as a facial difference or a facial disability.<<

Generally, the difference seems to be cultural. While a disability is a lack of a culturally-expected ability which makes life difficult, a varience either

a) exists on a cultiurally-acceptable range ass with extroversion-to-introversion, or

b) establishes it's own subculture, as with Deaf, autistic and DeafBlind communities. These new communities will have their own standard of normal/acceptable ability ranges which will often be different; disallowing certain mainstream behavior while allowing some unacceptable-in-mainstream behavior. (I.e. DeafBlind culture requires physical contact to indicate communication which is iffy to most mainstream folks, and it is not unheard of for some events to forbid verbal speech which is ubiquitous at most mainstream-culture events.)

>>That's not a very sensitive portrayal in the show, but they do make formidable antagonists.<<

It seems to me to be a magical condition that is a sort of a fantasy dissociative disorder with a tendency to make Stockholm-syndrome like imprints on the individual who triggers it.

Since 1) Stockholm Syndrome tends to be a placating defense in cases of extreme stress, usually social, 2) finding and attaching to a safe person is a good tactic when unable to function by oneself, and 3) many people with disassociation / dementia / extreme emotional upset are perfectly capable of interacting with a compassionate bystander or trusted loved one in a calm manner, I'd think that a triggered Hyde who managed to imprint on a safe/trusted person wouldn't be a threat at all, barring a direct attack from some idiot bystander.

>>...and conveniently there is a therapist (Dr. Valerie Kinbott) for anyone wanting to write about therapy.<<

Given the difficulties of cross-cultural therapy (and occasionally, cross-gender or cross-racial therapy) what extra training has Dr. Valarie taken to be qualified to work with Outcasts? Or is this a case of having a therapist who looks good on paper, but is actually missing useful skills to work with their clients?

>>A leading source of conflict pits town against school, normies against outcasts -- basically two different aspects of the same dispute. They claim to stand apart, but really they're so enmeshed that it smacks a lot of dysfunctional family dynamics.<<

It is common in more rural college towns for the college to be the main employer and for students to be a big part of the customer base; and the students need the town to be able to buy groceries, etc. So the enmeshment is not unrealistic.

I went to a fairly rural college that did a lot of community volunteering; we had a once-a-year event like Outreach day, but there were also a bunch of programs and events that people could do. The community seemed to like us okay.

>>In fact, some relatonships cross those lines in the series, as with Francoise Galpin (Hyde) and Donovan Galpin (normie). However, outcasts rarely call themselves outcasts; they usually have a different name such as "special" or "gifted." <<

The exception would be if they take the othering-name as a badge of honor; for real-life examples see Quaker and queer, which are now mostly descriptives. Also, see most words with n-word privileges; while they may still be offensive or threatening coming from outsiders, they are a form of solidarity and social bonding among the group.

Also, terminology can help identify allies. If an outsider knows preferred ingroup terminology or etiquette, that can indicate that they are friendly or potentially trustworthy.

>>I'm delighted to see a Pilgrim portrayed, openly and explicitly, as an evil person and later a monster obsessed with wiping out those different from himself.<<

It's also interesting that the villainess is immediately put down and insulted...because /of course/ the Pilgrim patriarch from the 1600s is misogynistic.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> You'd think this would shift as we get more women authors, though I suspect that social convention would lag behind simple demographics. <<

Well, first there is the challenge of getting women authors -- and script writers, and so on -- into positions where they can produce materials rather than change diapers or flip burgers. Then they have to get their material past the gatekeepers, in order to make mainstream media. Those gatekeepers are mostly straight white men. So we also need women in all those positions: acquiring editors, showrunners, producers, directors, etc. Plus the pipeline leaks from beginning to end, which means many women leave professions because they get tired of being mistreated by men. So its hard to get women in and hard to keep them there. That all contributes to low representation.

An exception is where they say, "Fuck that noise," and set up entirely on their own. We have women's presses to thank for the trove of women's literature. That's harder to do in film, which is more expensive than printing books, but some indie folks have done it. More would be better.

>>'Falling sickness' has long been thought to connect to mystical or religious experiences.<<

That's because it does. Any time you mess with the brain, there's a chance of opening up things like creativity, enlightenment, and magic. It's a complex set of electromagnetic and neurochemical processes. Most of the time it functions in a pretty standard way and you get predictable results. But change any part to a nonstandard version, and you get not only the primary alteration but also a higher likelihood of others. It's like trying to pull one feather out of a pillow. Creativity, various flavors of mental illness or injury, migraines, neural conditions like seizure disorders or phantom limb syndrome, spiritual experiences, reality alteration -- they're all part of the same Venn diagram. This aggravates modern people who prefer a medical model of mental illness and resent the connections between madness and art or the "magical cripple" trope. But that doesn't make it any less true. It's not always true, and that's where the stories can cause misconceptions. Denying all of it doesn't make matters any better.


>> Generally, the difference seems to be cultural. While a disability is a lack of a culturally-expected ability which makes life difficult, <<

Or difference that incites assholes to be abusive, creating problems where they didn't previously exist. This is what I suspect happens with the Faceless: they can do many if not all the same things as faced people, but the way they look makes normies uncomfortable and therefore hostile. The same happens to humans with disfiguring injuries or conditions, even if that doesn't produce biological problems. A social disability, it's called.

>> a varience either

a) exists on a cultiurally-acceptable range ass with extroversion-to-introversion, or <<

Possible within the Outcasts.

>> b) establishes it's own subculture, as with Deaf, autistic and DeafBlind communities. These new communities will have their own standard of normal/acceptable ability ranges which will often be different; disallowing certain mainstream behavior while allowing some unacceptable-in-mainstream behavior. (I.e. DeafBlind culture requires physical contact to indicate communication which is iffy to most mainstream folks, and it is not unheard of for some events to forbid verbal speech which is ubiquitous at most mainstream-culture events.) <<

True, and that's likely happening with the Faceless. Probably the other groups of Outcasts have their own subcultures too.


>> It seems to me to be a magical condition that is a sort of a fantasy dissociative disorder with a tendency to make Stockholm-syndrome like imprints on the individual who triggers it.<<

That sounds about right. Aside from the physical transformation, it's not actually far from examples in this world.
* Dissociative disorders commonly come from trauma (although there are healthy multiples who do not).
* Toxic bonds happen when the human bonding mechanism goes awry or is manipulated by dishonest people.
* And lots of mentally ill or injured people are abused by their therapists or others purporting to "help" them.

>> Since 1) Stockholm Syndrome tends to be a placating defense in cases of extreme stress, usually social, 2) finding and attaching to a safe person is a good tactic when unable to function by oneself, and 3) many people with disassociation / dementia / extreme emotional upset are perfectly capable of interacting with a compassionate bystander or trusted loved one in a calm manner, I'd think that a triggered Hyde who managed to imprint on a safe/trusted person wouldn't be a threat at all, barring a direct attack from some idiot bystander.<<

Now there's a story that needs to be written. I think you nailed it -- the Hydes are seen as monsters because the ones with a master who takes advantage of them are both violent and conspicuous. Probably no one would notice a Hyde who manifested with a safe protector. Conversely, those pairs would have every reason to conceal their nature and relationship from a hostile Outcast community. >_<

>> Given the difficulties of cross-cultural therapy (and occasionally, cross-gender or cross-racial therapy) what extra training has Dr. Valarie taken to be qualified to work with Outcasts? Or is this a case of having a therapist who looks good on paper, but is actually missing useful skills to work with their clients? <<

I suspect the latter -- she doesn't have the training or skills to do a good job, but is used anyway because she's available. However, fanwriters could make up all kinds of interesting educational or personal background to make her a better fit if that's what they want.


>>It is common in more rural college towns for the college to be the main employer and for students to be a big part of the customer base; and the students need the town to be able to buy groceries, etc. So the enmeshment is not unrealistic.<<

Yeah, it's common here too.

>>I went to a fairly rural college that did a lot of community volunteering; we had a once-a-year event like Outreach day, but there were also a bunch of programs and events that people could do. The community seemed to like us okay.<<

It's easier when the college and the community are fairly close in culture and appearance. When there's a big gap, though, it can get nasty and that does happen here too.


>> The exception would be if they take the othering-name as a badge of honor; for real-life examples see Quaker and queer, which are now mostly descriptives. Also, see most words with n-word privileges; while they may still be offensive or threatening coming from outsiders, they are a form of solidarity and social bonding among the group.<<

Possible.

>> Also, terminology can help identify allies. If an outsider knows preferred ingroup terminology or etiquette, that can indicate that they are friendly or potentially trustworthy.<<

This is true.


>>It's also interesting that the villainess is immediately put down and insulted...because /of course/ the Pilgrim patriarch from the 1600s is misogynistic.<<

I loved the hell out of that. Never expect gratitude from a villain. Many of them are prejudiced assholes.

I found one example of absolutely awful pranking over in Terramagne. The Taliban bought zetetic street drugs in hopes of souping up some of their child soldiers. But because they are the Taliban, only other nutjobs would deal with them. And those nutjobs thought it was funny to sell them drugs made from pigs instead of the cow version that the Taliban ordered. Because that's what nutjobs are like.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

>>Those gatekeepers are mostly straight white men. <<

Well, the director for Mad Max Fury Road did a fairly good job, and there's a couple of other guys I have known in RL who do a good job of understanding. But yeah, it is still uncommon.

>>An exception is where they say, "Fuck that noise," and set up entirely on their own. We have women's presses to thank for the trove of women's literature.<<

Or self-publishing, and internet stuff like you do.

>>That's harder to do in film, which is more expensive than printing books, but some indie folks have done it. More would be better.<<

There are two solutions I can think of for this:

a) Make films in old-fashioned styles, with the old-fashioned special effects, but more modern plot ideas. So, a 1940's thriller where giant spiders attack (with the obviously-fake miniature town being invaded by tarantulas) and when the military can't get rid of them, the military wives figure it out.

b) Do slice-of-life or mocumentary style films. You'd likely have access to most of the props and if you choose your setting carefully, you might not need to travel much - or at all. But you could do something like a Modern-Family confession-cam highlighting the wage gap, sexual harassment, etc.

Either method, you maximize available resources, and minimize the disadvantages.

>>That's because it does. Any time you mess with the brain, there's a chance of opening up things like creativity, enlightenment, and magic.<<

I know that neurovariances and mental variances tend to cluster.

>>This aggravates modern people who prefer a medical model of mental illness and resent the connections between madness and art or the "magical cripple" trope. <<

If you use a machine-model for medicine the more...impressionistic? Creative? reality would be maddening.
As for the whole Magical Disabled Person thing, it can be done well if the person is a well-rounded character (not a caricature) /and/ they have a realistic blend of advantages and disadvantages based on their condition. Toph (from ATLA) and Branch (from the Trolls movies) are good examples.

>>Or difference that incites assholes to be abusive, creating problems where they didn't previously exist.<<

Well, yes and no. Complicated of course by the fact that disabilities are contextual by situation and culture. Personally, I think that 'disability' carries the implication of an limitation, not just a difference that people will be mean about.

For example, being female is not a disability*, synesthesia may be a disability depending on how it manifests and complete blindness is always a disability (unless living in a society completely designed for nonvisual people.)
*Ancient Greek gender nonsense nonwithstanding.

>>True, and that's likely happening with the Faceless. Probably the other groups of Outcasts have their own subcultures too.<<

Enid's family seems to hint at a werewolf subculture; it seems unlikely for them to have 'therapeutic camps' without some sort of cohesion.

I am unsure if Morticia, Wednesday, and Goody Addams' seer abilities are part of a wider subculture. The lack of available information would argue no, but it is possible they are incredibly secretive or function as a master-apprentice chain.

I did not see any signs of siren or vampire subculture, though they would seem likely. Also, if the wider franchise is canon, there is an overall 'outcast subculture' that the Addams family belongs to, which extends beyond Nevermore and the Addams house.

>>I suspect the latter -- she doesn't have the training or skills to do a good job, but is used anyway because she's available.<<

She doesn't seem to be very comfortable with Wednesday and the rest of the family, and the whole Tyler situation ended very badly. Also, wouldn't a sudden change in behavior raise some flags (assuming Hyde transformations have similar symptoms to other sudden 'snapping' forms of mental illness)?

>>It's easier when the college and the community are fairly close in culture and appearance. When there's a big gap, though, it can get nasty and that does happen here too.<<

The college was more liberal and international than the surrounding area, but I never heard of any serious student-townie problems...wait, there was one, a cultural/linguistic misunderstanding with an international student. And someone mentioned getting odd looks when out with her boyfriend (interracial couple in Appalachia.)

I did hear of more and worse student-student problems.

>>I found one example of absolutely awful pranking over in Terramagne. The Taliban bought zetetic street drugs in hopes of souping up some of their child soldiers. But because they are the Taliban, only other nutjobs would deal with them. And those nutjobs thought it was funny to sell them drugs made from pigs instead of the cow version that the Taliban ordered. Because that's what nutjobs are like.<<

...I'd feel sorry for the kids. That's, what, a triple-whammy of religious abuse? :/

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>Well, the director for Mad Max Fury Road did a fairly good job, and there's a couple of other guys I have known in RL who do a good job of understanding. But yeah, it is still uncommon.<<

True.

>>Or self-publishing, and internet stuff like you do.<<

That's a key reason why I do it. The kind of stories I want to write, and my readers want to buy, are mostly not the kind that mainstream publishers want to put out. *shrug* Fine, I'll do it myself.

>>a) Make films in old-fashioned styles, with the old-fashioned special effects, but more modern plot ideas. So, a 1940's thriller where giant spiders attack (with the obviously-fake miniature town being invaded by tarantulas) and when the military can't get rid of them, the military wives figure it out.<<

LOL yes.

>> b) Do slice-of-life or mocumentary style films. You'd likely have access to most of the props and if you choose your setting carefully, you might not need to travel much - or at all. But you could do something like a Modern-Family confession-cam highlighting the wage gap, sexual harassment, etc.<<

Possible.

I think computer-generated options are rapidly becoming more likely too. Get together enough geek girls and you could make a film that way.


>>If you use a machine-model for medicine the more...impressionistic? Creative? reality would be maddening.<<

Yyyyeah.

>>As for the whole Magical Disabled Person thing, it can be done well if the person is a well-rounded character (not a caricature) /and/ they have a realistic blend of advantages and disadvantages based on their condition. Toph (from ATLA) and Branch (from the Trolls movies) are good examples.<<

I like it when it's done well, and Toph is a favorite. That's exactly what happens when a person short of one sense has an alternative sense: they use it to compensate, because the brain is plastic that way and having a disability teaches you problem-solving skills.


>>Well, yes and no. Complicated of course by the fact that disabilities are contextual by situation and culture. Personally, I think that 'disability' carries the implication of an limitation, not just a difference that people will be mean about.<<

That's why I like the term "social disability." If you can't get into a school because a wheelchair won't go up the steps, or because people won't let you in because of your appearance, then result is the same not getting into the school.

>> For example, being female is not a disability*, synesthesia may be a disability depending on how it manifests and complete blindness is always a disability (unless living in a society completely designed for nonvisual people.) <<

True.

>>Enid's family seems to hint at a werewolf subculture; it seems unlikely for them to have 'therapeutic camps' without some sort of cohesion.<<

Agreed. That suggests a very large number of werewolves, enough for them to have a bunch who can't shift easily and thus others want to send them to camps.

>> I am unsure if Morticia, Wednesday, and Goody Addams' seer abilities are part of a wider subculture. The lack of available information would argue no, but it is possible they are incredibly secretive or function as a master-apprentice chain.<<

The psychics don't seem as cohesive as some other groups, probably because of the wider range of gifts.

>>I did not see any signs of siren or vampire subculture, though they would seem likely. <<

The show didn't present much detail on any of the groups, really.

>>Also, if the wider franchise is canon, there is an overall 'outcast subculture' that the Addams family belongs to, which extends beyond Nevermore and the Addams house.<<

They seem to be cherry-picking whatever they want from it.


>>She doesn't seem to be very comfortable with Wednesday and the rest of the family, and the whole Tyler situation ended very badly. <<

Those were among my reasons too.

>> Also, wouldn't a sudden change in behavior raise some flags (assuming Hyde transformations have similar symptoms to other sudden 'snapping' forms of mental illness)? <<

It should.


>> ...I'd feel sorry for the kids. That's, what, a triple-whammy of religious abuse? :/ <<

Whoops, I forgot to send you a copy. That's from your prompt about war crimes. You should have it now.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

>>I think computer-generated options are rapidly becoming more likely too. Get together enough geek girls and you could make a film that way.<<

Maybe - limited by my biases here. I could figure out the documentary thing, if I had someone to edit the footage, but computer animation is way outside my skillset.

Although... it would be fairly easy to do 'trapped in VR' style stories that way, and the animation style would be advantageous for that.

>>Agreed. That suggests a very large number of werewolves, enough for them to have a bunch who can't shift easily and thus others want to send them to camps.<<

Also, keep in mind that some families won't send their kids away to a special camp for whatever reason, so the population would have to be bigger than "late bloomers times ten" or whatever.

>>The psychics don't seem as cohesive as some other groups, probably because of the wider range of gifts.<<

They might also be more secretive, under the same logic as sorceresses in The Enchanted Forest Chronicles. Namely, who want random people badgering you to fix everything with magic all the time?

Being a seer would likely be the same, and since the visions seem to be random rather than controlled that would seem to be worse.

I actually have a vague story idea for someone with seer powers...and they are about as useful as a medical condition like PTSD or anxiety. Or being a genius. Sure, you occasionally get a benefit, but overall it usually just makes life kinda difficult, and not everyone understands that (or behaves in a civilized manner in relation to it).

>>Those were among my reasons too.<<

She seems very young. Maybe either she has more idealism than skill. Or the posting in Jericho is undesirable, and all the good therapists got the better jobs, leaving this one for a half-baked rookie.

>>Whoops, I forgot to send you a copy. That's from your prompt about war crimes. You should have it now.<<

An outside-Fishbowl story? I think from that conversation about war crime atonement?

Thanks. (I actually didn't realize you'd written anything on that yet.)

I have interesting thoughts on it, but maybe should save them for the comments-discussion after the poem is posted for everyone.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

>>That sounds about right. Aside from the physical transformation, it's not actually far from examples in this world.
* Dissociative disorders commonly come from trauma (although there are healthy multiples who do not).
* Toxic bonds happen when the human bonding mechanism goes awry or is manipulated by dishonest people.<<

Thanks. I was researching disassociation-as-a-trauma-response for a story idea, so it was fresh in my mind. And latching onto someone who feels safe, (or at least seems to know what they are doing) is a very common stress/trauma response.

>>* And lots of mentally ill or injured people are abused by their therapists or others purporting to "help" them.<<

Well, the abusive cases tend to be memorable and stand out, but there are other options. I've had (multiple!) people who by their behavior indicate they trust me a lot*, despite what I can guess are very traumatic backgrounds. And when that happens, I try to do what is best for them, which can include:
- referring them to an expert,
- calm listening,
- helping to organize resources,
- finding or making new resources / solutions
- a nudge in the right direction and reassurance/encouragement,
- thinking aloud through a solution while checking in to be sure the person is okay with my conclusions,
- taking over and giving orders in a crisis because people are out of spoons.

*...I guess a good test for that sort of trust is "Do you feel better/safer being with this person, even if there is no practical way they can help you?"

>>Now there's a story that needs to be written. I think you nailed it -- the Hydes are seen as monsters because the ones with a master who takes advantage of them are both violent and conspicuous. Probably no one would notice a Hyde who manifested with a safe protector.<<

Plotbunnies:

- Sheriff Galpin married a Hyde, and her condition was triggered as a result of postpartum depression. It is implied that she was institutionalized, and the narrative never states who (if anyone) she imprinted on. What if she imprinted on her husband? A likely divergence here is if he had more help with the whole job/new baby/ill spouse trifecta - maybe a friend or relative of Francoise steps up and tries to help the poor overwhelmed normie get his feet back under him.

- Similarly, what if Tyler imprinted on his dad, instead of a crazy neo-nazi? They'd still argue and have their problems, but it seems pretty clear that for all his emotional ineptness, Sherriff Galpin is willing to do almost anything (at a sub-lethal threshold) to protect his son.

- Or Tyler imprinting on Wednesday? She would find it very annoying (as she doesn't want to be a feminine Caretaker) and her screwy-by-mainstream ethics might be a problem. Then again, she does have fairly strong ethics, and is very protective of anyone she thinks of as hers. Plus Sherriff Galping would probably be better able to, hmm cope with the supernatural if he has the Addams clan serving as a friendly extended family.

- Uncle Fester knew a Hyde too, but I suspect if she'd imprinted on him their story would end up being more of a Bonnie-and-Clyde setup.

- What happens when a Hyde's imprinted person dies? Can the bond be transferred? Can there be more than one bond at once (probably the best option if possible)?

- Also, where did Hydes come from? They aren't classic mythological or magical stock characters like most of the others shown, and if they are based off the Jackyl-and-Hyde tale, they may have only existed for a couple hundred years. Combined with the fact that a naturally-occurring phenotype is usually more stable*... might Hydes be an example of a Gone Horribly Right attempt to make a supersoldier / bound servant with 1800's Mad Science, that somehow became either inheritable or contagious?
*While all of the other characters in-universe may have occasional Power Incontinence, their powers do not use them or change them on a fundamental level.

>>Conversely, those pairs would have every reason to conceal their nature and relationship from a hostile Outcast community. >_< <<

Hydes could go to Nevermore when the Addams parents were there (though the one we see never told anyone she was a Hyde); so I don't think the prejudice has been consistent - but it probably has existed for at least several decades. And nested prejudices do exist in some minority communities.

More plotbunies:

- What is the Hyde community like? There must be one, even if only as a slightly-expanded master-apprentice chain, otherwise how would Hyde children know to hide their status, or for that matter anything else about being a Hyde? Do they have any sort of resources devoted to minimizing the chance of a manifestation, or the damage a possible manifestation might cause (therapy clinics or private islands perhaps)?

- What does the Hyde community think of the whole Tyler-Nevermore situation? Do they consider his normie father neglectful or inattentive? Do they consider a child being triggered and manipulated by a normie adult to be a form of abuse (yes, yes it is).

- Why didn't the Galpin's have anyone to go to for help, especially since the whole situation (normie father, absent mother, stressed teenager) was potentially volatile?

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I've had (multiple!) people who by their behavior indicate they trust me a lot*, despite what I can guess are very traumatic backgrounds. <<

Yeah, I've had that too.

>>*...I guess a good test for that sort of trust is "Do you feel better/safer being with this person, even if there is no practical way they can help you?"<<

Nailed it.

Mostly for me it's that I'm a good problem-solver. I am much less good at the just-listening side of support; it's not my natural mode.

>>Hydes could go to Nevermore when the Addams parents were there (though the one we see never told anyone she was a Hyde); so I don't think the prejudice has been consistent - but it probably has existed for at least several decades. And nested prejudices do exist in some minority communities.<<

I got the impression that it's been around for a while.

I've linked to your plotbunnies from the Episodes post.

Re: Thoughts

[see_also_friend]

>>Mostly for me it's that I'm a good problem-solver. I am much less good at the just-listening side of support; it's not my natural mode.<<

Varied toolkits.

>>I got the impression that it's been around for a while.<<

Prejudice existing doesn't mean it is consistent. Like, sexism is different form when I was a child, which is different from when my parents were young adults, different again from my grandparent's time, and definitely different from ancestors further back. So over time these are all examples of sexism:
- different school dress codes for boys and girls
- assuming that girls are either tomboys or girly-girls
- being called "Dear" and "Hon" at work
- being sexually assaulted at work...and then fired for fighting back
- a man not letting his wife work
- a woman's property belongs to her husband after marriage, and it is debated if this includes dresses/jewelry

[anxious_songbird]

Wednesday (TV) sounds really intressting! It'd be something I'd check out if I was any good with gore.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

Yeah, it's probably too messy for your tastes.