Poem: "A Living Element"
May. 22nd, 2020 02:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis poem came out of the May 5, 2020 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired and sponsored by Shirley Barrette. It also fills the "Eldership" square in my 5-1-20 card for the Sumerian Me Bingo fest. This poem belongs to the Shiv thread of the Polychrome Heroics series. It is the fourth in the set, after "The Truest Writers," "Those Who See Language," and "A Linguistic Process," and before "Based on the Mistake" and "The Professor's Keychain."
"A Living Element"
[Friday, July 26, 2013]
"Congratulate me," said Professor Burr.
"I just talked the University of Nebraska
and the Nebraska Community Colleges into
allowing inmates to complete online degrees
using courses offered by their systems,
prison courses, or a combination of those."
"Wow, that's impressive," said Everett.
"They were really dragging their feet.
What did they want in return for it?"
Professor Burr gave an utterly smug look.
"They demanded the right for their students
to take our online classes," he announced.
"They want to fob off the remedial students
on us," Everett guessed, then laughed.
"Little do they know how hard we work
to find anyone from outside willing
to interact with the inmates here."
"We'll need to draft a release for
the outside students to sign, but we
can base that on the volunteer forms
we already have," said Professor Burr.
"Honestly, the lowest-performing students
from the colleges will probably come from
similar backgrounds as our students,"
Everett said. "They should get along."
"That's my hope," said Professor Burr.
"I'd like to introduce some new classes
and at least one extracurricular."
"Oh, I know just the thing!" said Everett.
"Let me introduce a literary analysis of
The Blue Collar Boys. Everyone loves
watching television in class, and they'll
have no trouble relating to that one.
Besides, it's a terrific history show."
"Sold," said Professor Burr.
"Who do you think we should
approach about extracurriculars?"
"I thought you expected me
to do that," said Everett.
"You've got your hands full
with all those Book Clubs, and
I heard the Creative Writing Club
wants to split into separate groups,"
Professor Burr pointed out.
"Nah, I can hand off all of
the Book Clubs to the inmates,"
said Everett. "Every group includes
two or three diehards, a handful of
regular attendees, and one to three
dozen guys who show up when
they like that week's selection."
"How many of those clubs do you
have now?" asked Professor Burr.
"Black Lit, Latino Lit, College Classics,
Phantasmagoria, Hearts and Flowers,
Poets' Garret, and Beach Books,"
Everett counted on his fingers.
"One for each day of the week,
weekend sessions online only."
Professor Burr chuckled. "I
still can't believe you got them
to read romance," he said.
"It wasn't even my idea, I just
agreed to supervise it," Everett said.
"Wade pitched a proposal to study
famous romances for inspiration on
how to treat a real-life love interest. I
can tap him to manage the clubs."
"Okay, let's say that you hand off
the Book Clubs. What kind of
extracurricular would you add?"
Professor Burr asked him.
"Storytelling," said Everett.
"So far, I've led all kinds of
reading and writing activities,
but I want to try performance.
There's more to the Liberal Arts
than just literature and rhetoric."
"You think you can get the guys into
telling stories?" said Professor Burr.
"Storytelling is a living element,"
said Everett. "You can record it,
but those stories aren't alive
anymore, they're just fossils.
In order for a story to live,
you have to perform it."
"True, but will they see
that?" said Professor Burr.
"I think so," said Everett.
"Oral tradition is a huge part
of African-American culture, and
no small part of Hispanic culture.
Storytelling is a mark of eldership
across both of those societies."
"Good point," said Professor Burr.
"Come to think of it, this might also
appeal to the less-literate inmates."
"I can advertise that," Everett said.
"I'll make sure everyone knows that
they can learn stories from audio,
video, or other storytellers and not
just by reading the text out of books."
"All right, this club has potential,"
said Professor Burr. "Recidivism is
down by a third; let's aim for half."
"Besides, like writing, storytelling
can lead to gainful employment,"
said Everett. "That's always a draw,
and it keeps people out of trouble."
"Agreed," said Professor Burr.
"Let's see what you can do
with the living element."
So Everett went off to find
some stories to tell.
* * *
Notes:
[Character by Dialecticdreamer]
Wade Clarent -- He has tinted skin, brown eyes, and nappy black hair worn in zig-zag cornrows.
(First appearance in “A Smooth Discussion” part one and part two.)
Appearance: only noted that he's several inches taller than Doctor G, which puts him roughly 6'1” tall. Other details could be anything.
Background: Wade is twenty-six, but has rapidly become a 'steady' in the prison where he was sent four years ago for grand theft auto. He was tossed out of his home in the Chicago area when he was fifteen, caught
messing around with another teen...boy. His run of couch-surfing put him, almost accidentally, in a position to help his hosting family evade an eviction notice, and commit his first felony.
A year later, he had found a gang that did not discriminate based on his orientation (pansexual, but his
current romantic partner is male, making him appear homosexual), and began adding other skills to his repertoire. Busted a few weeks after his twenty-first birthday, the legal process took over a year to get from
arraignment to sentencing, which led to accusations that the court was trying to prolong the pre-trial process to guarantee that the trial would be highly public during the local elections. In actual fact, his pre-existing and rather long history of kleptomania was causing a great deal of concern among the prosecutors on the case, and led to a plea deal.
Qualities:
Good (+2) Impersonator (approaches the level of Vocal Mimic, not quite at superpower level). This quality will be Expert (+4) by the time he's thirty. Good (+2) Bookworm, Good (+2) Easygoing Good, (+2) Pansexual, Good (+2) Sleight of Hand, Good (+2) Soap Carving
Poor (-2) Mild Kleptomania
Wade was under treatment for kleptomania in prison, but with Warden Daley in charge, visits were too widely spaced and too constrained by inane restrictions to be fully effective. Guard Lincoln, among others, took action early on, and worked out a compromise with Sanquez and Kincaid that allowed Wade's soap carvings to be used as reparations for his “un-resisted urges to acquire items,” which did tend to limit Wade to no more than he could carve in a period of two weeks, since Daley limited the prisoners' access to the commissary to once every two weeks. (Hula girls and sports cars were popular from whole bars of soap, and Wade carefully saved the scraps to craft soap roses, petal by petal.)
Wade's boyfriend Miquon is a frequent visitor, and started ordering gifts through Wade's commissary account -- mostly foods that Wade had wondered about, but not tried, but Daley's idiotic restrictions made that less popular than ordering graphic novels through a bookstore with a shipping service. Wade has kept all but two of
those, carefully mailing them back to Miquon when he finished reading them.
* * *
Online degrees in Nebraska include offerings from Central Community College, Northeast Community College, Southeast Community College, and the University of Nebraska. Some colleges make their online classes available to everyone, while others restrict enrollment as closely as for campus classes, so it varies whether inmates have access to such opportunities.
The Blue Collar Boys is a 1950s soap opera about working-class men and their families during the industrial revolution. Set in Chicago, it captures the tensions that erupt when some households catch the rising tide of prosperity while others get left behind.
Storytelling is a performing art of narrative with many benefits. Here is a learning library. There are lesson plans and storytelling resources for teachers and other storytellers. Consider the importance of black storytellers and Hispanic storytellers. You can take free online lessons in storytelling. Learn how to become a storyteller and read an assessment of performance criteria.
Oral tradition is a vital part of African-American culture and Hispanic culture.
In local-America, illiteracy makes it difficult if not impossible to get a job, even though some jobs require little or no reading. Much the same is true for people with learning disabilities, a population that largely overlaps the illiterate. Terramagne-America makes an effort to match jobs to everyone who is willing and able to work, so it's a little better there, but the situation is still limiting. It becomes much easier if people compensate for each other's strengths and weaknesses, such as a slender construction worker doing the paperwork while brawnier ones do the heavy lifting. Consider careers for low writing/reading levels and high-paying jobs with little or no education. Work-at-home jobs often involve working by hand, such as crafts. Jobs for blind people necessarily require no reading or writing of flat text. Jobs for immigrant workers may require minimal language skills of any kind.
"A Living Element"
[Friday, July 26, 2013]
"Congratulate me," said Professor Burr.
"I just talked the University of Nebraska
and the Nebraska Community Colleges into
allowing inmates to complete online degrees
using courses offered by their systems,
prison courses, or a combination of those."
"Wow, that's impressive," said Everett.
"They were really dragging their feet.
What did they want in return for it?"
Professor Burr gave an utterly smug look.
"They demanded the right for their students
to take our online classes," he announced.
"They want to fob off the remedial students
on us," Everett guessed, then laughed.
"Little do they know how hard we work
to find anyone from outside willing
to interact with the inmates here."
"We'll need to draft a release for
the outside students to sign, but we
can base that on the volunteer forms
we already have," said Professor Burr.
"Honestly, the lowest-performing students
from the colleges will probably come from
similar backgrounds as our students,"
Everett said. "They should get along."
"That's my hope," said Professor Burr.
"I'd like to introduce some new classes
and at least one extracurricular."
"Oh, I know just the thing!" said Everett.
"Let me introduce a literary analysis of
The Blue Collar Boys. Everyone loves
watching television in class, and they'll
have no trouble relating to that one.
Besides, it's a terrific history show."
"Sold," said Professor Burr.
"Who do you think we should
approach about extracurriculars?"
"I thought you expected me
to do that," said Everett.
"You've got your hands full
with all those Book Clubs, and
I heard the Creative Writing Club
wants to split into separate groups,"
Professor Burr pointed out.
"Nah, I can hand off all of
the Book Clubs to the inmates,"
said Everett. "Every group includes
two or three diehards, a handful of
regular attendees, and one to three
dozen guys who show up when
they like that week's selection."
"How many of those clubs do you
have now?" asked Professor Burr.
"Black Lit, Latino Lit, College Classics,
Phantasmagoria, Hearts and Flowers,
Poets' Garret, and Beach Books,"
Everett counted on his fingers.
"One for each day of the week,
weekend sessions online only."
Professor Burr chuckled. "I
still can't believe you got them
to read romance," he said.
"It wasn't even my idea, I just
agreed to supervise it," Everett said.
"Wade pitched a proposal to study
famous romances for inspiration on
how to treat a real-life love interest. I
can tap him to manage the clubs."
"Okay, let's say that you hand off
the Book Clubs. What kind of
extracurricular would you add?"
Professor Burr asked him.
"Storytelling," said Everett.
"So far, I've led all kinds of
reading and writing activities,
but I want to try performance.
There's more to the Liberal Arts
than just literature and rhetoric."
"You think you can get the guys into
telling stories?" said Professor Burr.
"Storytelling is a living element,"
said Everett. "You can record it,
but those stories aren't alive
anymore, they're just fossils.
In order for a story to live,
you have to perform it."
"True, but will they see
that?" said Professor Burr.
"I think so," said Everett.
"Oral tradition is a huge part
of African-American culture, and
no small part of Hispanic culture.
Storytelling is a mark of eldership
across both of those societies."
"Good point," said Professor Burr.
"Come to think of it, this might also
appeal to the less-literate inmates."
"I can advertise that," Everett said.
"I'll make sure everyone knows that
they can learn stories from audio,
video, or other storytellers and not
just by reading the text out of books."
"All right, this club has potential,"
said Professor Burr. "Recidivism is
down by a third; let's aim for half."
"Besides, like writing, storytelling
can lead to gainful employment,"
said Everett. "That's always a draw,
and it keeps people out of trouble."
"Agreed," said Professor Burr.
"Let's see what you can do
with the living element."
So Everett went off to find
some stories to tell.
* * *
Notes:
[Character by Dialecticdreamer]
Wade Clarent -- He has tinted skin, brown eyes, and nappy black hair worn in zig-zag cornrows.
(First appearance in “A Smooth Discussion” part one and part two.)
Appearance: only noted that he's several inches taller than Doctor G, which puts him roughly 6'1” tall. Other details could be anything.
Background: Wade is twenty-six, but has rapidly become a 'steady' in the prison where he was sent four years ago for grand theft auto. He was tossed out of his home in the Chicago area when he was fifteen, caught
messing around with another teen...boy. His run of couch-surfing put him, almost accidentally, in a position to help his hosting family evade an eviction notice, and commit his first felony.
A year later, he had found a gang that did not discriminate based on his orientation (pansexual, but his
current romantic partner is male, making him appear homosexual), and began adding other skills to his repertoire. Busted a few weeks after his twenty-first birthday, the legal process took over a year to get from
arraignment to sentencing, which led to accusations that the court was trying to prolong the pre-trial process to guarantee that the trial would be highly public during the local elections. In actual fact, his pre-existing and rather long history of kleptomania was causing a great deal of concern among the prosecutors on the case, and led to a plea deal.
Qualities:
Good (+2) Impersonator (approaches the level of Vocal Mimic, not quite at superpower level). This quality will be Expert (+4) by the time he's thirty. Good (+2) Bookworm, Good (+2) Easygoing Good, (+2) Pansexual, Good (+2) Sleight of Hand, Good (+2) Soap Carving
Poor (-2) Mild Kleptomania
Wade was under treatment for kleptomania in prison, but with Warden Daley in charge, visits were too widely spaced and too constrained by inane restrictions to be fully effective. Guard Lincoln, among others, took action early on, and worked out a compromise with Sanquez and Kincaid that allowed Wade's soap carvings to be used as reparations for his “un-resisted urges to acquire items,” which did tend to limit Wade to no more than he could carve in a period of two weeks, since Daley limited the prisoners' access to the commissary to once every two weeks. (Hula girls and sports cars were popular from whole bars of soap, and Wade carefully saved the scraps to craft soap roses, petal by petal.)
Wade's boyfriend Miquon is a frequent visitor, and started ordering gifts through Wade's commissary account -- mostly foods that Wade had wondered about, but not tried, but Daley's idiotic restrictions made that less popular than ordering graphic novels through a bookstore with a shipping service. Wade has kept all but two of
those, carefully mailing them back to Miquon when he finished reading them.
* * *
Online degrees in Nebraska include offerings from Central Community College, Northeast Community College, Southeast Community College, and the University of Nebraska. Some colleges make their online classes available to everyone, while others restrict enrollment as closely as for campus classes, so it varies whether inmates have access to such opportunities.
The Blue Collar Boys is a 1950s soap opera about working-class men and their families during the industrial revolution. Set in Chicago, it captures the tensions that erupt when some households catch the rising tide of prosperity while others get left behind.
Storytelling is a performing art of narrative with many benefits. Here is a learning library. There are lesson plans and storytelling resources for teachers and other storytellers. Consider the importance of black storytellers and Hispanic storytellers. You can take free online lessons in storytelling. Learn how to become a storyteller and read an assessment of performance criteria.
Oral tradition is a vital part of African-American culture and Hispanic culture.
In local-America, illiteracy makes it difficult if not impossible to get a job, even though some jobs require little or no reading. Much the same is true for people with learning disabilities, a population that largely overlaps the illiterate. Terramagne-America makes an effort to match jobs to everyone who is willing and able to work, so it's a little better there, but the situation is still limiting. It becomes much easier if people compensate for each other's strengths and weaknesses, such as a slender construction worker doing the paperwork while brawnier ones do the heavy lifting. Consider careers for low writing/reading levels and high-paying jobs with little or no education. Work-at-home jobs often involve working by hand, such as crafts. Jobs for blind people necessarily require no reading or writing of flat text. Jobs for immigrant workers may require minimal language skills of any kind.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-05-22 10:05 pm (UTC)Thank you!
Date: 2020-05-22 11:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-05-23 12:35 am (UTC)Jobs for immigrant workers:
- Unskilled: driver (rideshares are common), hotel cleaner, line cook, janitor, stocker at a store, construction, (maybe) babysitting, (maybe) language tutor
- Skilled: tailor/seamstress, carpenter, mechanic
Teaching or medical assistants require language skills and some certification, but aren't as difficult to qualify for as higher-status positions, like professor or doctor/nurse. Working in a store interacting with customers requires excellent language skills; mostly it is the teenagers who picked up a proficiency in school.
Most of these are easy to get around if there is a Translator Buddy (not neccesarily the boss) at the workplace, so it also comes down to how common the language is. (Spanish = easy, Farsi, fugheddaboutit). This would be more common in T-America.
Specialized vocab or jargon (auto repair terms, carpenter's plane, stimming, 'Bobby puked in the sink') or not-in-polite-company terms may be more complicated to pick up.
Context:
-Auto repair/carpentry, if you have a professional craftsperson look for labeled diagrams and learn from those, if a specialist in the target language is not avalible (you may be able to sub in a non-specialist with a word list or the diagrams for how to pronnounce things correctly)
-Stimming I know from volunteering and passed on to my ESL student with a special needs kid
-'Bobby puked' comes up with people who are working with or around kids (ditto for kid-specifics like potty or (a) grownup)
Another problem is applying for the job: You need to write the resume, be reasonably impressive in the interview and not accidentally offend anyone (i.e. by standing at a friendly 6 inches or being prepeared for the possiblity of shaking hands with a differently gendered interviewer).
You also need to be culturally-savvy enough to not get in fights with coworkers, interact appropriatly with everyone (i.e. your coworker changing the subject when you bring up religion means she doesn't want to talk about it), and pick up the workplace-specific culture (i.e. do I need to say when I'm going to the bathroom and if so how should I phrase it?)
It's also worth moting that compensating for each other's skills will often happen in a sufficiently functional group:
1) I was one of the go-to people for Spanish at my last job. It was a craft store and ee'd also trade off on specialties, so for example CosplayBob (not real name) got all the questions on how to dye fabric / make shped plastic etc, because he did it for his costumes.
2) I once needed to talk to someone on a work crew about a timeline for some repairs on the condo I was living in and got passed from the Polish(?) speaker to the Spanish speaker to the English-speaking boss who answered my question.
3) The people at the place I like to volunteer will quite commonly trade off on translating for each other, or sharing phones for Internet/Google Translate. It can be useful for translating uncommon stuff too, like the time I needed to know the word for cider in Burmese (making potluck labels)...
(no subject)
Date: 2020-05-23 12:55 am (UTC)I could technically read aloud (and horribly mispronounce) more distantly related languages (Romanian/Welsh), or even look up unfamilloar words (i.e. what does 'zwazo' mean?)
I can't even begin to read aloud any non-Latin scripts. (I at one point had to ask someone is this the Arabic, Farsi, or Urdu version?), and looking up words is nearly impossible if you can't recognize the letters.
Point is, it'll be easier to learn a new language if they have the same alphabet as one of your current languages.
And pay attention to handwriting and scripts. _Slightly_ messy printed handwriting may be incomprehensible to an ESL speaker, especially since handwriting is less common in the Computer Age.
Fancy or different script can be problematic too - compare standard Arabic writing to writing in the Koran.
Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-23 08:43 am (UTC)You are so awesome.
>> Jobs for immigrant workers:
- Unskilled: driver (rideshares are common), <<
You have to be able to understand road signs, at least rote memorization.
>> hotel cleaner, <<
In fact, one of the first jobs scored by a Syrian in the Rutledge thread comes when the hotel owner spots one of the women cleaning things in the common room, because there are cleaning supplies and making things shiny makes her feel better. People who actually like cleaning are rare, and precious because they tend to do a better job. I haven't written this scene yet, but I want to.
>> line cook, janitor, stocker at a store, construction, (maybe) babysitting, (maybe) language tutor <<
The last two are things that members of an immigrant group can do for each other. There are usually kids who need watching, and there's usually someone who speaks the local vernacular. T-America makes a point of encouraging immigrants to work as soon as they feel up to it, and especially, to help each other. That way they feel like they're contributing instead of taking charity.
>> - Skilled: tailor/seamstress, carpenter, mechanic <<
The first two of those are easy to learn, and the third only somewhat harder, even without books if you have someone to show you. If you're good enough with your hands, you might even learn the basics just by fooling around, but that's more challenging. It's also a lot more possible in T-America than here, where there are more workshops and other makerspaces for people to use.
>> Teaching or medical assistants require language skills and some certification, but aren't as difficult to qualify for as higher-status positions, like professor or doctor/nurse. <<
True, unlike here, T-America has very good scoop programs to identify skilled professionals and support them in updating their skills for local certifications. They don't need to relearn everything, just what's different in their new country/state.
>>Working in a store interacting with customers requires excellent language skills; mostly it is the teenagers who picked up a proficiency in school.<<
True, but back of the store work as a stocker or whatever requires much less. In fact if the town has a shipping hub, they always need drovers whose job basically consists of "take things off trucks" and "put things on trucks" and if they can pass an operator test maybe "drive this forklift to move things." In fact there are still a fair number of jobs in other places that consist of "move the things."
>> Most of these are easy to get around if there is a Translator Buddy (not neccesarily the boss) at the workplace, so it also comes down to how common the language is. (Spanish = easy, Farsi, fugheddaboutit). This would be more common in T-America.<<
Largely true. It's easier in T-America simply because most folks have functional knowledge of a second language due to starting in preschool or kindergarten. But it's a wild mishmash of Spanish (by far the most popular), French, other world languages, and heritage languages. There probably are a good handful of people in Rutledge county who speak Arabic or Farsi, but there are a lot more who speak French so the Francophone Syrians are much better set.
However, one huge advantage of settling refugees in large groups of 100+ is so they can help each other. In a group that big, usually there's a wider spread of languages, just because being educated correlates both with that and having the resources to escape. So in the Rutledge thread, a fair number of refugees know 2+ languages and came from a major city where they were at least middle class. T-America provides a handful of support personnel including translators for the first year, but they also try to identify refugees who can do translation and locals who have a language in common with the refugees. In fact one reason the Rutledge citizens got interested in the Syrians was to nab a bunch more Francophones, since French is the second-spoken foreign language after English in Syria.
>>Specialized vocab or jargon (auto repair terms, carpenter's plane, stimming, 'Bobby puked in the sink') or not-in-polite-company terms may be more complicated to pick up.<<
True, but those are among the most valuable. I encourage foreign language learners to use thematic vocabulary lists as soon as they've got the basics down. Learn 20 art words, go to a museum, and use them. Learn 20 food words and shop at a farmer's market. Learn 20 craft words, hit a craft store for supplies, and sit around talking while you make things. You won't find "Please pass me the glue" in most language textbooks, but you are more likely to need it in everyday life and it is not hard to learn. The textbook is a good place to start, but unless what you have is a travel guide like Lonely Planet, it'll have more academic than practical information. People need to learn what they'll use, even if it's the parts of a muffler instead of 20 adverbs.
>> Context:
-Auto repair/carpentry, if you have a professional craftsperson look for labeled diagrams and learn from those, if a specialist in the target language is not avalible (you may be able to sub in a non-specialist with a word list or the diagrams for how to pronnounce things correctly) <<
All very good.
>> -Stimming I know from volunteering and passed on to my ESL student with a special needs kid
-'Bobby puked' comes up with people who are working with or around kids (ditto for kid-specifics like potty or (a) grownup) <<
In fact, registers are important in general. Standard school words are fine to start, but someone who works with kids needs a very different set of words than someone who works in a professional office. The only instances of this I ever encountered in language classes consisted of a few brief tidbits about Russian dialects, and a Japanese culture professor who struggled to teach us some of the more important cultural concepts (like wabi-sabi) while the TA told us that most Japanese people didn't even know that stuff. *headdesk* But I was interested in the differences between noble, peasant, and Muscovite accents or why wabi and sabi are actually two separate but related concepts.
>>Another problem is applying for the job: You need to write the resume, be reasonably impressive in the interview and not accidentally offend anyone (i.e. by standing at a friendly 6 inches or being prepeared for the possiblity of shaking hands with a differently gendered interviewer).<<
This is made much easier if the boss wants to hire immigrants, difficult or impossible if he does not. In T-America, people generally want to splice immigrants into the economy as fast as feasible, so they don't just soak up resources and also because idleness is bad for people unless they're actually not ready to work. So the friendlier parts of Rutledge are trying to figure out what jobs the Syrians could do and how to connect them.
>> You also need to be culturally-savvy enough to not get in fights with coworkers, interact appropriatly with everyone (i.e. your coworker changing the subject when you bring up religion means she doesn't want to talk about it), and pick up the workplace-specific culture (i.e. do I need to say when I'm going to the bathroom and if so how should I phrase it?) <<
Yeah, the zillion little cultural differences make it hard just to get through the day. It gets easier over time, but slowly. That first year is like trying to run through peanut butter. :/ Again, intentional neighboring makes all the difference. You need people around who will explain that "douche" does NOT mean "shower" in English, instead of getting offended. And conversely, someone needs to explain to the Americans that touching a stranger of opposite sex is deeply rude in Muslim cultures, etc.
>> It's also worth moting that compensating for each other's skills will often happen in a sufficiently functional group: <<
Absolutely. Knowing how to navigate a mixed-culture group is a skillset.
>> 1) I was one of the go-to people for Spanish at my last job. It was a craft store and ee'd also trade off on specialties, so for example CosplayBob (not real name) got all the questions on how to dye fabric / make shped plastic etc, because he did it for his costumes.<<
Hee!
>> 2) I once needed to talk to someone on a work crew about a timeline for some repairs on the condo I was living in and got passed from the Polish(?) speaker to the Spanish speaker to the English-speaking boss who answered my question.<<
Fascinating.
>> 3) The people at the place I like to volunteer will quite commonly trade off on translating for each other, or sharing phones for Internet/Google Translate. It can be useful for translating uncommon stuff too, like the time I needed to know the word for cider in Burmese (making potluck labels)...<<
You have such an exciting life!
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-23 05:43 pm (UTC)I think a lot of people use GoogleMaps, too. But you don't have to to talk to the boss, or be really chatty with customers, you can set your own hours (useful if working another job) and if you've got a car eating up your income,you might as well .ax out possible income on it. (Also, many road signs are pictograms.)
>>People who actually like cleaning are rare, and precious because they tend to do a better job. I haven't written this scene yet, but I want to.<<
I used to get the fold/sort/detangle jobs at work...because I kept doin gthem during slow times. Eventually the bosses just factored that into work requests.
>>...and there's usually someone who speaks the local vernacular.<<
Even if you don't speak the local language, you could proofread homework written in your language or get someone started on learning your language (and being a native speaker s an aszet here). I've picked up most of my Arabic from people pointing at stuff / miming while we are trying to communicate. ("Englizi book. Aravi?" "Kiitab.") This is also why about 1/3 of my vocab is food, and most of the rest is social stuff...
>>The first two of those are easy to learn, and the third only somewhat harder, even without books if you have someone to show you. <<
The people I know are already experts, but speak less-common languages (Arabic, Urdu, Russian, Haitian Creole) and need to be able to communicate, including profession-specific jargon. ("Well, it sounds like we should look at the brake pads and check the fluid levels."/"I need my suit taken in and the pants hemmed 2 inches.") Auto repair also requires passing an exam (I think some writing, but I'm not sure how much). Fortunately with some jobs good references and a portfolio can take you a long way, if your work is that good.
>>True, but back of the store work as a stocker or whatever...<<
Yeah, I actually consider them different types of jobs for this purpose. A stocker can easily hand off the occasional customer, a cashier cannot. It also depends if there is a Translator Buddy, how much reading is needed to set product and how big the store is (smaller ones need jack-of-all-trades workers, and usually cannot have a stocking-only person, unless maybe you get down to the level of a specialized two or three person operation hiring someone to help out).
>>It's easier in T-America...<
I think a lot of people use GoogleMaps, too. But you don't have to to talk to the boss, or be really chatty with customers, you can set your own hours (useful if working another job) and if you've got a car eating up your income,you might as well .ax out possible income on it. (Also, many road signs are pictograms.)
>>People who actually like cleaning are rare, and precious because they tend to do a better job. I haven't written this scene yet, but I want to.<<
I used to get the fold/sort/detangle jobs at work...because I kept doin gthem during slow times. Eventually the bosses just factored that into work requests.
>>...and there's usually someone who speaks the local vernacular.<<
Even if you don't speak the local language, you could proofread homework written in your language or get someone started on learning your language (and being a native speaker s an aszet here). I've picked up most of my Arabic from people pointing at stuff / miming while we are trying to communicate. ("Englizi book. Aravi?" "Kiitab.") This is also why about 1/3 of my vocab is food, and most of the rest is social stuff...
>>The first two of those are easy to learn, and the third only somewhat harder, even without books if you have someone to show you. <<
The people I know are already experts, but speak less-common languages (Arabic, Urdu, Russian, Haitian Creole) and need to be able to communicate, including profession-specific jargon. ("Well, it sounds like we should look at the brake pads and check the fluid levels."/"I need my suit taken in and the pants hemmed 2 inches.") Auto repair also requires passing an exam (I think some writing, but I'm not sure how much). Fortunately with some jobs good references and a portfolio can take you a long way, if your work is that good.
>>True, but back of the store work as a stocker or whatever...<<
Yeah, I actually consider them different types of jobs for this purpose. A stocker can easily hand off the occasional customer, a cashier cannot. It also depends if there is a Translator Buddy, how much reading is needed to set product and how big the store is (smaller ones need jack-of-all-trades workers, and usually cannot have a stocking-only person, unless maybe you get down to the level of a specialized two or three person operation hiring someone to help out).
>>It's easier in T-America...<<I suspect they're more chill about haveing phones on the workfloor to translate or keeping a set of phrasebooks and picture dictionaries at customer service. (Maybe the Rutlidge supermarket could have a French and Arabic billingual dictionary - I suggest DK brand they've got the same pictures in all their books so it's easier to know where everything is, even if you are working in 5+ languages.)
>>In fact, registers are important in general.<<
People usually want to learn pleasantries (how to address people) and practicalities (how to buy stuff or call the doctor), but once you hit a certain level you want the specialized stuff. A lot of my working woth intermediate students is going over specialized stuff specific to jobs or medical conditions etc. (I also try to get emergency and medical stuff in early - how do you call for help, what do you tell them, and anything specific to your household, like Grandpa having a bad heart).
Also considerr the difference between "I want.../I would like..." or that it often sounds bossy and presumtuous when someone makes a request and ends with Thank you. You expect language glitches like that from small children, but they can be offputting from an adult.
>>Yeah, the zillion little cultural differences make it hard just to get through the day.<<
Even for locals! I once had a conversation with 2 other Americans and an immigrant about if you needed to call your bathroom breaks at work and how it should be phrased, and we all had different answers because we'd worked in and been exposed to different industries. (Teaching wait for a replacement, at the register wait until a non-busy time and tell someone where you've gone, office go whenever but be sure to excuse yourself if talking to a client, working independantly on a task, go whenever).
>>You need people around who will explain that "douche" does NOT mean "shower" in English, instead of getting offended. And conversely, someone needs to explain to the Americans that touching a stranger of opposite sex is deeply rude in Muslim cultures, etc.<<
Pronunciation shenanigans can make innocuos things sound bizarre/innapropriate (stripe>strip, bit>bitch, bathroom>bedroom) to say nothing of picking up bad words. (I knew a guy in college who picked up a really bad word somewhere and used it, so some other guy at the bar tried to choke him...I found out about this the next day when he was asking me for medical advice, while I was late to work. I also found out he didn't have insurance. Ah, America.) It is better to make thise mistakes with friendly people (Don't call a woman dear unless your married to her / that term is out-of-date and rude, now we say x / okay you meant a, but you actually told me to c).
Also that it is normal in the Middle East for same-gender friends or siblings (including guys) to cuddle in public... I kept doing double-takes at that until my "oh, right, Middle Eastern..." reaction finished uploading.
And the differences in hospitality...Americans find agressive hospitality offputting, Middle Easterners feel like turning down food is kicking a puppy.
And the personal space.
>>Knowing how to navigate a mixed-culture group is a skillset.<<
Or even if you've just got different skills or specialties. Most of my coworkers were demographically similar, but we'd have different info about cooking vs sewing vs fixing clocks.
>>You have such an exciting life!<<
I'm glad you think so. I tend to think its boring, mostly because I'm not sure what on earth I'm doing with my life, and the fact I've been mostly an unemployed shut-in for two months doesn't seem to help.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-24 02:09 am (UTC)Map programs and visual navigation programs can be very useful for finding places. They don't usually tell you the rules of the road on the way there.
>> But you don't have to to talk to the boss, or be really chatty with customers, you can set your own hours (useful if working another job) and if you've got a car eating up your income,you might as well .ax out possible income on it.<<
Very true.
>> (Also, many road signs are pictograms.)<<
A red octagon always means stop. There are lots of things that can simply be memorized. But you have to be able to read numerals -- which are different in English than in Arabic -- to tell what a speed limit says. A town name can be memorized, but street signs are so numerous you have to be able to read them if you're using those. Construction signs are always orange, but can have different instructions on them.
On the bright side, the amount of literacy required to read street signs is much lower than that required to fill out forms or read a newspaper -- it's a limited set with a lot of repeats. Hence why lots of people who read at a 3-4 grade level can get by.
This is really useful with former inmates and immigrants, because you can identify areas where a modest amount of knowledge will gain them a very large increase in functionality. Learn to read the road signs and what the common rules are, learn to read the dashboard of a car, and you're mobile. It might be a lot of work for a new or poor reader, but it's a huge payoff.
>>I used to get the fold/sort/detangle jobs at work...because I kept doin gthem during slow times. Eventually the bosses just factored that into work requests.<<
*laugh* That's how I wound up doing all the illustrated books after the library fires. Someone noticed I could usually tease them apart without losing all the ink, and nobody else could.
>> Even if you don't speak the local language, you could proofread homework written in your language or get someone started on learning your language (and being a native speaker s an aszet here). <<
Yeah, two things highly active in Rutledge will be Syrians babysitting or tutoring each other's kids, and teaching the locals another language.
>> I've picked up most of my Arabic from people pointing at stuff / miming while we are trying to communicate. ("Englizi book. Aravi?" "Kiitab.") This is also why about 1/3 of my vocab is food, and most of the rest is social stuff.. <<
:D Awesome.
Just listening to that video of the 99 Names of Allah, I realized that I've picked up a bunch of them from my characters. And Haboob's minions were called the Kitaab.
>> The people I know are already experts, but speak less-common languages (Arabic, Urdu, Russian, Haitian Creole) and need to be able to communicate, including profession-specific jargon. ("Well, it sounds like we should look at the brake pads and check the fluid levels."/"I need my suit taken in and the pants hemmed 2 inches.") <<
Yeah, that's challenging.
>> Auto repair also requires passing an exam (I think some writing, but I'm not sure how much). <<
Well, getting official recognition of it does. No exam is required for helping out a neighbor or keeping your own car running, both extremely useful when you don't have a regular job.
>> Fortunately with some jobs good references and a portfolio can take you a long way, if your work is that good.<<
That's true, and indeed, much more true in T-America than here.
One good thing Rutledge has done is mobilize everyone willing to help with "What can your job, hobby, or organization do to give the refugees a hand up?" So instead of trying to fix everything at once, everyone is taking a different little piece. If the refugees include a mechanic, it will therefore be natural to connect that person with the local mechanic to learn specialized vocabulary and what's needed to reskill for any required certifications.
>> Yeah, I actually consider them different types of jobs for this purpose. <<
They can be separate or together, depending on the size of the store.
>>A stocker can easily hand off the occasional customer, a cashier cannot. It also depends if there is a Translator Buddy, how much reading is needed to set product and how big the store is (smaller ones need jack-of-all-trades workers, and usually cannot have a stocking-only person, unless maybe you get down to the level of a specialized two or three person operation hiring someone to help out).<<
Unless it's a one-man-shop so small that you can see all of it at once, you can't leave the register untended, which means you need at least one cashier and one person stocking and whatever else. But if that second person doesn't speak much English, they can simply point people toward the cashier. If the store is small enough for two people to cover it, the cashier probably also knows where everything is so they can explain. There are ways to make it work, if people want to.
>> I suspect they're more chill about haveing phones on the workfloor <<
That depends on the store. Blues Moon generally bans staff phones on the floor because it's too much of a distraction -- but their staff is mostly young people. A store with older employees, less tech-savvy ones, or simply the owner's business they don't want to waste time in, might not have that issue.
>> to translate or keeping a set of phrasebooks and picture dictionaries at customer service. (Maybe the Rutlidge supermarket could have a French and Arabic billingual dictionary <<
Many places probably have English-French dictionaries already, because there's enough of a Francophone population to attract Canadian tourists. The Syrians will bump it up enough to make that an even bigger draw, which supports the town's previous goals. Getting more French supplies will be a lot easier than getting Arabic ones.
>> I suggest DK brand they've got the same pictures in all their books so it's easier to know where everything is, even if you are working in 5+ languages.) <<
Fascinating, I didn't know that. I like Lonely Planet because the vocabulary, grammar, and cultural information is so damn good. I use them for spec fic references.
>> People usually want to learn pleasantries (how to address people) and practicalities (how to buy stuff or call the doctor), but once you hit a certain level you want the specialized stuff.<<
That makes sense.
>> A lot of my working woth intermediate students is going over specialized stuff specific to jobs or medical conditions etc. (I also try to get emergency and medical stuff in early - how do you call for help, what do you tell them, and anything specific to your household, like Grandpa having a bad heart).<<
Good idea.
>> Also considerr the difference between "I want.../I would like..." or that it often sounds bossy and presumtuous when someone makes a request and ends with Thank you. You expect language glitches like that from small children, but they can be offputting from an adult.<<
"Thank you for ..." (i.e. "thank you for listening") often works better. Some languages have whole grammatical structures that only certain people are allowed to use, or can only be used in specific situations, and nothing in the language tells you that -- it's a social thing you just have to memorize. Almost the entirety of Japanese is divided into batches of things, and not even the same things. There are words that only men or women use, and it's not rude to cross over, but it sounds very wrong; and most things have 3-5 variations across the levels of politeness/formality where varying more than about one level is not only wrong but rude in either direction. 0_o
And then you have to consider why manners even exist. The theoretical reason is to make interactions go smoother, but the actual reason is more often to hurt or exclude people who don't know the secret code. That is sometimes a very serious problem.
So with leeway, think about why it exists -- we make allowances for people who either haven't had a chance to learn yet or are unable for some reason. Some people will give the same leeway to foreigners and people with learning disabilities and senescent seniors. Others won't. It makes the assholes pop right out.
>> (Teaching wait for a replacement, at the register wait until a non-busy time and tell someone where you've gone, office go whenever but be sure to excuse yourself if talking to a client, working independantly on a task, go whenever). <<
Logical breakdown.
For Muslims, of course, they have to account for prayer times. A Muslim business will simply close for 10 minutes while everyone prays together -- and T-Maldives is building an auxiliary custom base for non-Muslims to use a Friendship Room alongside a Prayer Room and pray in their own faith or meditate or whatever. But in a non-Muslim country, that doesn't happen and few people are accommodating. Of course, if you have multicultural awareness, you know that it's useful to have different faiths because then people usually don't fight over wanting the same days off.
>> Pronunciation shenanigans can make innocuos things sound bizarre/innapropriate (stripe>strip, bit>bitch, bathroom>bedroom) to say nothing of picking up bad words. (I knew a guy in college who picked up a really bad word somewhere and used it, so some other guy at the bar tried to choke him...I found out about this the next day when he was asking me for medical advice, while I was late to work. I also found out he didn't have insurance. Ah, America.) <<
Yikes. At least T-America has fewer people who think hitting is an okay way to express displeasure.
>> It is better to make thise mistakes with friendly people (Don't call a woman dear unless your married to her / that term is out-of-date and rude, now we say x / okay you meant a, but you actually told me to c).<<
That one is geographic as well as chronological, though. If a Southern woman doesn't call you dear, honey, cutie, etc. it means she doesn't like you. A lot of clashes come from people moving to a different place with different culture and not adapting fast enough.
>> Also that it is normal in the Middle East for same-gender friends or siblings (including guys) to cuddle in public... I kept doing double-takes at that until my "oh, right, Middle Eastern..." reaction finished uploading.<<
Yeah.
>> And the differences in hospitality...Americans find agressive hospitality offputting, Middle Easterners feel like turning down food is kicking a puppy.
And the personal space.<<
Polish and Italian have the same "feed people" drive, and it's nearly as strong down South. That can make for some very interesting matches as well as mismatches.
>>Or even if you've just got different skills or specialties. Most of my coworkers were demographically similar, but we'd have different info about cooking vs sewing vs fixing clocks.<<
That's useful.
>> I'm glad you think so. I tend to think its boring, mostly because I'm not sure what on earth I'm doing with my life,<<
Just from what you've mentioned in passing, and what I know about immigration and survival, you are at minimum making people's lives a lot better by making a terrifying move into something that seems survivable -- and since you're working with immigrants regularly, I would bet that you have saved lives. Like most everyday heroics, you usually won't know how or when. Once in a while, though, someone may come back to you after the fact and tell you what it was. If you're doing the kind of work that gets mentioned that way, therefore, you can extrapolate that it's probably happening sometimes. Have you ever read accounts written by people who had to flee their homeland? Most of them mention helpers who made it possible for them to escape or to survive in their new country. And you're doing the things in that latter category. Just that one guy who got choked -- what if he hadn't had someone to tell, to explain the problem so it didn't happen again, to work through medical options? He could've died. But you were there.
What you're doing, it's a lot like driving a tow truck. People think that heroism looks like pulling someone out of a burning building, and sure, that is heroic. But that guy who shows up at 2 AM to pull your car out of a snowbank? He's a hero too, and he does it all the time. Most folks don't even think of it as an important job, but when you are stuck in a ditch on a freezing night, there is nothing like the feeling of relief when you see those blinking yellow lights in the distance.
For someone who barely speaks English, having a translator or tutor to help them is precious beyond price. It makes a huge difference in their chances of survival and success compared to someone who doesn't have that resource. When they're stuck on something they don't understand, you're the tow truck.
>> and the fact I've been mostly an unemployed shut-in for two months doesn't seem to help. <<
Yeah, that sucks.
However, you've got adaptable skills. Any English speaker has something useful, but you also have experience working with English language learners. There are lots of online places for that. Some are free/volunteer, some are paid, and some simply connect people who then make their own pay/barter/whatever arrangements. You could explore that. Now's obviously a good time because so many folks are looking for things to do, so it's perfect for boosting language/culture skills.
If you're not sure what you're doing with your life, there are also tons of resources for that.
https://markmanson.net/life-purpose
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_to_find_your_purpose_in_life
https://www.verywellmind.com/tips-for-finding-your-purpose-in-life-4164689
Another thing to consider is life balance. Among the common causes of feeling aimless or unfulfilled is a big gap in one or more areas of life. That can make you feel bad even if other things are going great. Fill in a chart and it tends to leap right out at you. So then you can work on that.
https://scottjeffrey.com/wheel-of-life/
https://www.fulhamconsulting.com.au/life-balance-1
https://medium.com/@erictaussig/balancing-the-wheel-of-life-as-a-working-parent-d4b0c261b084
Life planning can also replace aimlessness with clear goals.
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Life-Plan
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/83/f0/bf/83f0bf6ffd73e20cb75e5668c2c05256.jpg
https://fireuptoday.com/10-year-goals/
Based on what you've said, though, I suspect you're very close to your purpose already -- you've found things that help people and that you're good at. If you'd found exactly what it is, you wouldn't feel like you don't know what you're doing with your life. So I suggest checking things that are adjacent to your current work and interests.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-24 07:04 am (UTC)Fires, plural?
>>Yeah, two things highly active in Rutledge will be Syrians babysitting or tutoring each other's kids, and teaching the locals another language.<<
If billingual combine the two and be a babysitter who teaches a second language.
>>And Haboob's minions were called the Kitaab.<<
There are Christiansbwho call themeslves Peoplebof the Book (I think...) Doesntmean theyre nice people.
>>No exam is required for helping out a neighbor or keeping your own car running, both extremely useful when you don't have a regular job.<<
If you fix other people's stuff without a certification you may be loable for damages - one retired mechanic I know won't fix non-household vehicles for that reason.
>>"What can your job, hobby, or organization do to give the refugees a hand up?"<<
Teach jargon, for almost anything. Drive people to appointments and the store. Make appointmants. Include the kids in activities. Explain cultural differences, listen to their problems.
Incidentally, get the volunteers some training for trauma/working with survivors. I looked up, years ago, what to do if a friend tells you she has been raped (just in case) and had to generalize that to 'what to do when someone tells you they were abducted and tortured.'
>>Getting more French supplies will be a lot easier than getting Arabic ones.<<
Order online, or in bulk from a bookstore. Online will likely be cheaper, if more work, unless you need access codes or something.
>>Fascinating, I didn't know that. I like Lonely Planet because the vocabulary, grammar, and cultural information is so damn good. I use them for spec fic references.<<
I prefer a DK picture dictionary paired with with a Lonely Planet phrasebook if possible. The phrasebook is good for phrases, wordlists and the dictionary, while the pocture dictionary is good for going over different types of food/animals/healthcare nouns at a glance.
Onlone is likely cheaper, but I think you have to buy new to get the new app theyre offering.
>>"Thank you for ..." (i.e. "thank you for listening") often works better. <<
It was someting like "you can do x and thank you" wich is a bit...abrupt.
>>And then you have to consider why manners even exist. The theoreticalreason is to make interactions go smoother, but the actual reason is more often to hurt or exclude people who don't know the secret code. That is sometimes a very serious problem.<<
Manners help you determine ingroup/outgroup and social status, which can be good...or not.
Discussed in this fanfic, which I thought was kind of funny (though you could skip to the last chapter) https://archiveofourown.org/works/8777860/chapters/20121460
>>So with leeway, think about why it exists -- we make allowances for people who either haven't had a chance to learn yet or are unable for some reason. Some people will give the same leeway to foreigners and people with learning disabilities and senescent seniors. Others won't. It makes the assholes pop right out.<<
Sometimes complicated by emotional stuff (like something that is often used as harassment) or it not being obvious the person will be having linguistic difficulty. Exactly /once/ someone said something that made me not want to deal with the person again - it was intended as a joke, and may have gotten mistranslated, but I am not dealing with that.
>>That one is geographic as well as chronological, though. If a Southern woman doesn't call you dear, honey, cutie, etc. it means she doesn't like you. A lot of clashes come from people moving to a different place with different culture and not adapting fast enough.<<
And genderbased - I (female) was talking to two guys about a generation older than me. One of the women officeworkers came in and heard "Can I call you dear?" and hung around in case I needed backup. (For context, they were asking me how to adress people - sir, ma'am, miss, etc...)
>>Polish and Italian have the same "feed people" drive, and it's nearly as strong down South. That can make for some very interesting matches as well as mismatches.<<
Yeah, saying yes all the time makes me miserable, saying no gets sad puppy eyes and frantic appeasement. Ironically I have Italian ancestry, but my ancestor (1900s) assimilated.
>>Just that one guy who got choked -- what if he hadn't had someone to tell, to explain the problem so it didn't happen again, to work through medical options?<<
He was a foriegn student at a private religious college - I'm sure there was someone else he could have talked to.
>>However, you've got adaptable skills.<<
I've thought of tutoring or something, but I'm a bit of a Luddite, and right now it would have to be online.
Thanks for the links - I'll have to check them out when it's not so late that its early.
For whatvits worth, People keepbsuggesting ESL teacher, social worker, and Speech Pathologist as careers for me.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-24 09:56 am (UTC)One in high school, not in the library itself but much of the school got soaked.
One in college, part of the library and the rest got soaked.
In both cases, they called for volunteers to tease the books open and pack them with paper towels in hopes of salvaging some. It's usually doable with non-glossy paper; a normal person with a delicate touch and patience can manage. But glossy paper sticks to itself when wet, the pictures especially transfer ink to each other. I used unlocking magic to get them apart. Didn't always work, but my success rate was so much higher than anyone else's that it got noticed.
>>If billingual combine the two and be a babysitter who teaches a second language.<<
Ideally bilingual to communicate with parents, but a second-language babysitter is fine for toddlers or younger. Older kids will bitch unless they're junior linguists -- once they've learned about three languages it stops bothering them.
>>There are Christiansbwho call themeslves Peoplebof the Book (I think...) Doesntmean theyre nice people.<<
Good point.
>>If you fix other people's stuff without a certification you may be loable for damages - one retired mechanic I know won't fix non-household vehicles for that reason.<<
Local-America has done a damn fine job of making it harder and harder for people to work. Most of it is means-tested now: you have to pay a ton of money to be permitted to apply for jobs.
Fortunately, T-America is saner. They have an astounding array of certifications, but almost all of them are voluntary. It's up to people what education they want -- and what they want to require of people they hire. And the overall level of skill is much higher, because there are learning opportunities everywhere. When lots of people can do basic work on their own cars, it doesn't seem like "magic."
>>Teach jargon, for almost anything. Drive people to appointments and the store. Make appointmants. Include the kids in activities. Explain cultural differences, listen to their problems.<<
Good general concepts. In Rutledge it's also things like the storekeepers checking to see who stocks or can get halal food, the French immersion school figuring out what they'd need to add more students, the hotel and bed-and-breakfasts talking over where to house people until they're ready for a house or apartment, etc.
>> Incidentally, get the volunteers some training for trauma/working with survivors. <<
Always a good idea. I think Rutledge has some of that planned.
>> I looked up, years ago, what to do if a friend tells you she has been raped (just in case) and had to generalize that to 'what to do when someone tells you they were abducted and tortured.' <<
Most refugees have been traumatized, many in multiple ways. Often they won't say anything about it, for many reasons. So just look at the stuff that's going on wherever they came from or through -- anyone who went through Libya went through a meat grinder -- and figure it applies to people whether they mention it or not.
Care of torture survivors is somewhat more involved than for someone who got raped once. It's closer related to extensive child abuse. I've looked up resources for Turq's thread, Rutledge, and Love Is For Children.
Some references:
Torture is the deliberate infliction of suffering, whether for information or just gratification. There are ways to resist it. This can have a variety of lasting health effects. Torture survivors often have difficulty recovering, even with help. Rehabilitation offers challenges for clinicians. Sometimes energy work helps, such as qigong or t'ai chi. Caregivers can help survivors of torture, and there are self-care steps for survivors too.
Traumatic stress can lead to conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder or prolonged duress stress disorder. There are ways to cope with traumatic stress or live with someone who has it.
>>I prefer a DK picture dictionary paired with with a Lonely Planet phrasebook if possible. The phrasebook is good for phrases, wordlists and the dictionary, while the pocture dictionary is good for going over different types of food/animals/healthcare nouns at a glance.<<
That's a good idea.
>>Manners help you determine ingroup/outgroup and social status, which can be good...or not.<<
True.
>>Discussed in this fanfic, which I thought was kind of funny (though you could skip to the last chapter) https://archiveofourown.org/works/8777860/chapters/20121460<<
ROTFLMAO!!! That is insane. I love it. The sheer specificity of details is mind-blowing. :D Thanks everso for sharing.
>> Sometimes complicated by emotional stuff (like something that is often used as harassment) or it not being obvious the person will be having linguistic difficulty. <<
Yeah.
>>Exactly /once/ someone said something that made me not want to deal with the person again - it was intended as a joke, and may have gotten mistranslated, but I am not dealing with that.<<
Fair enough.
>>And genderbased - I (female) was talking to two guys about a generation older than me. One of the women officeworkers came in and heard "Can I call you dear?" and hung around in case I needed backup. (For context, they were asking me how to adress people - sir, ma'am, miss, etc...)<<
Yeah, there are a lot of variations. And most people don't know what they are. They think their version is it.
>>Yeah, saying yes all the time makes me miserable, saying no gets sad puppy eyes and frantic appeasement. Ironically I have Italian ancestry, but my ancestor (1900s) assimilated.<<
Most languages usually have a polite way to decline, minimize, or defer to later -- but they're often in code. 0_o Not really helpful.
>>He was a foriegn student at a private religious college - I'm sure there was someone else he could have talked to.<<
Ideally, yes. In practice? Often not, even for natives. I have repeatedly been the only person someone felt they could ask for help, in a vast range of things most of which are not even my specialty. I have, in fact, repeatedly been described as more helpful than someone's (fill in a professional). This and other observations lead me to conclude that social connections often not very connected nowadays. It's not one person, or a handful, it's a LOT of people.
>>I've thought of tutoring or something, but I'm a bit of a Luddite, and right now it would have to be online.<<
I can sympathize with Luddite tendencies.
>>Thanks for the links - I'll have to check them out when it's not so late that its early.<<
Yay!
>>For whatvits worth, People keepbsuggesting ESL teacher, social worker, and Speech Pathologist as careers for me.<<
Those all have potential. ESL is probably the simplest credentials to acquire, and fits with what you've been doing. Social worker puts people in some very compromising positions, but some folks manage to do a lot of good there. Speech Pathologist is complicated to learn, but can make major improvements in people's lives.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-24 03:30 pm (UTC)I'd make an educated guess that some of the folks have been raped too, but no-ones outright told me. (To be fair, low odds in America balance out to 1/5 or 1/6 odds for my gender, so its a safe assumption nearly everywhere.) Someone brought it up once as an example of 'things going wrong in my country and the refugee camps.'
You'll also get explanations of snipers, bombs, looting, cultural differences, and how your neighbors tent burned down in the refugee camp.
More humorously, explaining you don't have neccesary paperwork because of a bombing comfuses the **** out of the person you are talking to.
>>Older kids will bitch unless they're junior linguists -- once they've learned about three languages it stops bothering them.<<
I wonder how that breaks down by culture - rich folks pay a lot to learn a new language but poor folks are looked down upon for having more than one, and most middle-classers are only proficient in one. I kept getting wierd looks from coworkers for being Spanish-conversant. With refugee kids specifically - I know at least one case where the stress of immersion-schooling and being unable to talk to friends realy got to someone, and a few other people who were chill in talking in a second language (one of whom was fime watching interesting media in a third yet-unlearned language).
>>Yeah, there are a lot of variations. And most people don't know what they are. They think their version is it.<<
Here it was learning a foreign culture and language - and given the topic it was better to ask in a controlled environment!
At one point two of us younger volunteers had to 'update' a term that is rude to our generation, but was normal about fortyish years ago. Our stydent had picked it up from one of the older volunteers. This did involve discussing that language changes over time.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-25 08:36 am (UTC)That makes sense.
>> (To be fair, low odds in America balance out to 1/5 or 1/6 odds for my gender, so its a safe assumption nearly everywhere.) <<
It used to be 1/4 for women, 1/3 for native or military women; 1/9 for men; now I'm seeing references to 1/3 for women in general and 1/6 for men.
>> Someone brought it up once as an example of 'things going wrong in my country and the refugee camps.' <<
That probably means things that happened to them, to their family, or that they witnessed. And just seeing horrible things can cause traumatic stress. :/ Also survivor guilt.
>> You'll also get explanations of snipers, bombs, looting, cultural differences, and how your neighbors tent burned down in the refugee camp.<<
Yeah, that's not good.
>> More humorously, explaining you don't have neccesary paperwork because of a bombing comfuses the **** out of the person you are talking to.<<
I imagine so. A growing problem is that humans increasingly behave like robots, refusing to solve problems that are perfectly solvable because it's not in their script. If someone "important" hasn't thought to include and option for "papers unavailable" then you're often just shit out of luck. It also doesn't matter what the law says unless you can afford to sue them.
>> I wonder how that breaks down by culture - rich folks pay a lot to learn a new language but poor folks are looked down upon for having more than one, and most middle-classers are only proficient in one. <<
That is an interesting observation. *ponder* I would bet at least part of it depends on which languages you know. Rich people typically learn respected ones, whether historic (Latin) or business (Japanese). Poor people learn languages to survive, which means usually a disrespected heritage language and whatever the local vernacular is. People associate Spanish not with Spain but with Mexico and Cuba. 0_o
>>I kept getting wierd looks from coworkers for being Spanish-conversant. With refugee kids specifically - I know at least one case where the stress of immersion-schooling and being unable to talk to friends realy got to someone, <<
Immersion schooling is a great way to learn a language, or if someone is already bilingual, to practice it while learning other topics. But a language learner cannot simultaneously learn both a new language and new subject material. The attempt is crippling -- many don't learn the language well because they aren't taught it, and most get so far behind in subject material that they can never catch up. Not to mention the brutal damage of ripping away a child's native language by force. The younger they are, the more easily they learn a new language, but the less likely they are to retain the original one.
>>and a few other people who were chill in talking in a second language (one of whom was fime watching interesting media in a third yet-unlearned language).<<
Well, there's always going to be some folks with high linguistic intelligence. I watched anime before any of it was translated into English.
>>Here it was learning a foreign culture and language - and given the topic it was better to ask in a controlled environment!<<
Agreed.
>>At one point two of us younger volunteers had to 'update' a term that is rude to our generation, but was normal about fortyish years ago. Our stydent had picked it up from one of the older volunteers. This did involve discussing that language changes over time.<<
Yeah, that can be sticky.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-24 03:43 pm (UTC)Try total cultural confusion and inability to speak each others' languages. I did eventually research when I kept running into the same problem, but cultural breifings were not included in training. (We didnt really have training.) "I have to feed the cats" makes a good excuse to decline an invitation, and people will calm down once youve interacted enough for them to distinguish "she's being American today" from "she hates me!"
>>This and other observations lead me to conclude that social connections often not very connected nowadays. It's not one person, or a handful, it's a LOT of people.<<
I often don't want to bother people or know how to initiate stuff. (Shy introvert.) It doesn't help when people say "Go socialize!" when I'm having difficulty with how to do it in general and with them specifically. :/
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2020-05-25 09:41 am (UTC)Ouch.
>> I did eventually research when I kept running into the same problem, but cultural breifings were not included in training. (We didnt really have training.)<<
Well that was horrible. O_O
>> "I have to feed the cats" makes a good excuse to decline an invitation, and people will calm down once youve interacted enough for them to distinguish "she's being American today" from "she hates me!" <<
Well reasoned.
>> I often don't want to bother people <<
That's hard to fix.
>> or know how to initiate stuff.<<
That's easily fixed by memorizing the stuff -- which does not make it easy to perform, but at least it's known.
https://www.happierhuman.com/meet-new-people/
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Friends
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Small-Talk
https://www.wikihow.com/Start-a-Good-Conversation
https://liveboldandbloom.com/02/self-improvement/small-talk-topics
https://conversationstartersworld.com/250-conversation-starters/
Of course, for me it's more that 1) I hate small talk, and 2) the chance of finding anyone on my level is vanishingly small to begin with. I can make friends, and have occasionally dropped into conversations with random strangers. One time a homeless woman complimented my socks and we talked about tie-dye and where to find some. It just doesn't happen often because I'm so far afield from most other people. They enjoy small talk. I'd rather weed my garden than do it, and it puts me in a hostile mood that is the opposite of helpful for making connections. Meanwhile, I'm into quantum mechanics and xenolinguistics and stuff most people never even heard of. So it's a game of Find the Others. 0_o
>> (Shy introvert.) It doesn't help when people say "Go socialize!" when I'm having difficulty with how to do it in general and with them specifically. :/ <<
Yeah, that sucks. >_< There are instructions for socializing, but extroverts don't realize that it is work and ... well, they aren't always worth that much effort.
There's a world of difference between people who wish to socialize but struggle to achieve it, people who don't get much out of it, and people who just can't be arsed to do it.
In case you want ideas:
https://socialpronow.com/blog/socialize-with-strangers/
Some of this might be useful to your immigrants as they work to build a local network.