Poem: "Rather Delicate Creatures"

[ysabetwordsmith]

This poem is spillover from the September 6, 2016 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from stardreamer and chanter_greenie. It also fills the "weakness" square in my 8-1-16 card for the Survival Bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by janetmiles. It belongs to the series Polychrome Heroics.

Warning: This poem contains some touchy topics. Highlight to read the warnings, some of which are spoilers. Napoleon is trying to mindroll people again, ineffectively. He is allergic to soy and whining about food he can't have. Lily's mother Narcissa is a cunt, who does not respect people's dietary parameters or other boundaries of personal integrity. But it's still a pretty cute poem. If these are sensitive issues for you, please consider your tastes and headspace before reading onward.


"Rather Delicate Creatures"


I met up with Lily at
the Honey Bistro Park
after taking Napoleon
to the veterinarian.

"So what's the verdict?"
she asked, looking down at
the gangly brown tabby sulking
at the end of his leash.

"We're halfway through
the elimination diet, and
the scratching has faded, so
we are pretty sure that he is
allergic to soy or something else
in his favorite food," I explained.

I want the fish, Napoleon whined.
GIVE ME THE FISH!

"The fish-flavored cat food
probably makes you itch,"
I tell him for the zillionth time.
"After we finish the food trial,
we can test with pure fish.
Do you want to start with
the salmon or the tuna?"

I want Kitty Wish!
Napoleon said, and
sharpened his claws
on my blue jeans.

When I declined to respond
and instead went back
to drinking my coffee,
he turned his attention
on Lily instead.

Lily put her cocoa on
her knee and said, "If you
touch my nylons, I will soak you."

Napoleon flattened his ears
and growled at her.

"Five point five," she said blandly.
"Your intimidation skills need work."

Napoleon swished his tail and
slunk toward the next table,
intent on the children with
their basket of fish sticks.

"Don't even try it," I told him,
then added for the parents' benefit,
"He's on a special diet, no treats."

Napoleon wailed his protests
at the top of his lungs.

"Cool," said the little boy.
"It's like he understands you."

If only they knew.

"He understands that he's not
getting any fish," I said.

Finally Napoleon flopped down
in a sunbeam and fell asleep.

"Well, at least he doesn't have
trouble sleeping," Lily said.

"Cats are rather delicate creatures,
but I've never known one to suffer
from insomnia," I said with a laugh.

Lily's mother Narcissa dropped by
with several cups of ice cream --
baklava for herself, chocolate for Lily,
and even French vanilla for me.

She was trying to make nice,
now that it was clear I'm not
going away, even though
she wasn't very good at it.

"Thank you," I said, and
dug into mine. It was good.

Lily took one bite of hers
and spit it out. "This is coffee,"
she sputtered. "You know
how much I hate coffee!"

"It's mocha," Narcissa said.

"Which is chocolate with
coffee in it," Lily gritted.

"Oh, don't be silly," Narcissa said.
"I thought if I didn't tell you what
was in it, you wouldn't know you
weren't supposed to like it."

Lily grabbed handful of napkins
and tried to wipe off her tongue.

"Here, trade me," I suggested,
offering her my French vanilla.

"You don't even like chocolate,"
she said, glaring at me.

"It's okay," I said with a shrug.
"I don't like wasting food."

I'll eat it, Napoleon said eagerly.
I like ice cream. GIVE ME
THE ICE CREAM NOW.

"No, it would spoil your food trial
and we'd have to start over,"
I said, moving it out of reach.
"Everyone would hate that."

Napoleon's mental screech
made people wince throughout
the patio dotted with tables.

Narcissa pinned him to the pavement
with one high-heeled shoe and said,
"Go back to sleep." The kitten went limp.

Blessed, blessed silence.

I knew that I should probably
scold Narcissa for excessive force,
but the snoring kitten was such
an improvement over days of
constant caterwauling that I
didn't have the heart for it.

Narcissa raised an eyebrow.
"Usually this is where you
start yelling at me," she said.

"Compromise can be
a beautiful thing," I said.

Lily watched her mother
walk away, and then said,
"You know that she's going
to walk all over you after this."

I shrugged. "She can try."

Lily licked a dollop of French vanilla
from the spoon with her tongue, then
grimaced. Coffee flavor always
took a while to fade for her.

Supervillains, too, could be
rather delicate creatures and
fragile in some surprising ways.

Lily wasn't really a supervillain,
even though her mother wanted
her to be one, but she came from
the same background and thus
shared a lot of the same traits.

I got up and bought a packet
of spiced mixed nuts from
Horace's Health Nuts.

"Here," I said. "These should
cut the taste of the coffee, and
they go well with French vanilla."

Lily gave me a shy smile
through the dark curtains
of her hair. "Thanks."

Delicate, fragile, and
frequently infuriating --
but some of them were
worth pursuing anyhow.

* * *

Notes:

Napoleon -- He is a male kitten with brown classic tabby fur and hazel eyes. He is the son of Macavity, younger brother of Cayenne and older brother of Mrrhow the Mercurial. Currently they live with Riposte.
Origin: He was born with his superpowers.
Uniform: None. He goes nude.
Qualities: Good (+2) Kitten, Good (+2) Persuasive
Poor (-2) Holds Grudges
Powers: Average (0) Telempathy
Weakness: Allergy to soy.
Motivation: To manipulate people.

Riposte (Jacob "Coby" Wade) -- Coby has fair skin, light brown hair, and blue eyes. He is average height with considerable muscle. He grew up in a family of superheroes but never developed powers himself. His grandmother Snapdragon used to be a supervillain, until she fell in love with a hero and quit the supervillain life. His mother is a strongwoman and his father is a telepath; his oldest brother has super-strength, middle brother has super-speed, and his older sister has telepathy. Coby's fashion sense is such that he can put together the wildest outfit and still look good in it instead of ridiculous. He wore a glass-green smoking jacket to his senior prom and had girls hanging all over him. His specialty is fighting supervillains with telepathic, empathic, or other abilities that allow them to manipulate people. He is still touchy about lacking real powers, though.
Origin: Coby is the youngest of four children in a super family, and the only one without powers. So he pushed his ordinary abilities until he could compete on a super scale, finding ways to accomplish the same things.
Uniform: Colorful and expressive, the details change but the flair remains similar. Riposte likes poet shirts, fancy coats, and hats. The most common color is yellow-green contrasted with blue-violet and red-violet. He wears a tricolor half-mask.
Qualities: Master (+6) Armor of Iron Will, Expert (+4) More Than One Way to Skin a Cat, Expert (+4) Soup Culture, Expert (+4) Family Connections, Expert (+4) Strong, Expert (+4) Tough, Good (+2) College Student, Good (+2) Deduction, Good (+2) Speed-reading, Good (+2) Unusual Fashion Sense, Good (+2) Wrestler
Poor (-2) I Can TOO Keep Up With You!
Powers: None.
Motivation: To be effective as a supernary hero.

Ligeia (Lily Acquarone) -- Lily has long straight black hair, black eyes, and olive skin. She lives across the alley from Riposte (Jacob "Coby" Wade). Her mother Narcissa used to work for Coby's grandmother Snapdragon as a kid sidekick, until said grandmother fell in love with a hero and quit the supervillain life. Narcissa wants Lily to be a supervillain. Lily wants to be a singer or an actress in musicals. The family has a lot of emotional violence. In swim class, Lily once lost control of her powers and drowned Coby by accident, but he doesn't blame her. She hates coffee, or anything coffee-flavored.
Origin: Her powers grew in during puberty.
Uniform: Fashionable women's clothes.
Qualities: Good (+2) Beautiful, Good (+2) Independent, Good (+2) Musical Intelligence, Good (+2) Performer
Poor (-2) Dysfunctional Family Dynamics
Powers: Expert (+4) Siren Song (Signature Stunts: Break Glass, Truth Serum), Average (0) Flight, Average (0) Water Powers
Motivation: To discover her true self.

Narcissa (Nata Acquarone) -- She has olive skin, dark brown eyes, and straight brunette hair cut to jaw level. She used to work for Coby's grandmother Snapdragon as a kid sidekick, until said grandmother fell in love with a hero and quit the supervillain life. Narcissa has a daughter, Lily, and wants Lily to be a supervillain. They live across the alley from Riposte (Jacob "Coby" Wade).
Origin: She got caught in the crossfire during a cape fight and developed superpowers.
Uniform: Sparkly yellow dexflan bodysuit with bell sleeves and a neck ruffle, matching domino mask and sandals of yellow krevel.
Qualities: Expert (+4) Jewelry Appraiser, Good (+2) Loyal, Good (+2) Swimmer, Good (+2) Thief
Poor (-2) Dysfunctional Family Dynamics
Powers: Average (0) Sleep Induction
Motivation: To help her family get ahead, whatever it takes.

* * *

"Cats are rather delicate creatures and they are subject to a good many ailments, but I never heard of one who suffered from insomnia."
-- Joseph Wood Krutch

See Honey Bistro Park with tables and chairs.

Cats can have allergies or intolerances to food; itching is the lead symptom of allergies. By far the most common are plant additives in cat food that they wouldn't eat in the wild, such as soy.

Dysfunctional families fail to perform the practical purposes that loving households serve. They maintain this pattern persistently, often led by a dysfunctional adult such as a narcissist, which leaves an imprint on adult children. There are ways to deal with dysfunctional relatives and break away from toxic patterns.

There are many diets people may follow out of necessity or preference. One reason behind preferences is that some people are supertasters, which has a genetic basis. Bitter foods such as coffee are among the most frequently rejected; to some folks, the bitterness overwhelms anything it might be mixed with, even very sweet things such as ice cream. Feeding people something you know they can't or won't eat is supervillain-caliber chicanery. Nice people have manners.

Enjoy a recipe for Baklava Ice Cream.

Horace's Health Nuts is a snack stand that sells paper cones of nuts which may be plain, salted, candied, or spiced. They're famous for having a great selection: peanuts, almonds, walnuts, cashews, brazil nuts, chestnuts, and sunflower seeds are usually available along with mixed nuts and granola bars. They most often set up at parks, zoos, fairs, or other outdoor locations but they have a few mall stands too. Here is a recipe for Spiced Mixed Nuts.

Comments

[sweet_sparrow]

<3

Thank you!

[ysabetwordsmith]

I'm glad you enjoyed this.

[stardreamer]

As I said in my prompt, the particular "rationale" offered by Narcissa is potentially lethal and makes my blood boil. Someone who pulled that trick in my presence would never be welcome in my home or any other space over which I had any say, and furthermore I would make sure everyone else in our social circle knew that this person was willing to kill someone with a food allergy because THEY didn't believe in such a thing. There have been a couple of documented instances of restaurant chefs pulling that stunt in the kitchens*, which is even worse.

* One involved a chef who would deliberately lie to customers about having gluten-free pasta and serve them regular pasta instead. I believe the other one was about serving food made with chicken broth and labeling it "vegetarian". That one... I used to know someone who was lethally allergic to any kind of poultry, as in "Epi-pen and hospital NOW". I'm just glad neither of those idiots actually killed anyone. But they could have.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> As I said in my prompt, the particular "rationale" offered by Narcissa is potentially lethal and makes my blood boil. <<

Yes, it's a problem. Narcissa is one of those people who is so self-centered that she just doesn't respond to other people's needs very well. They would be better off without her, but Lily isn't ready to abandon her whole family, so Coby grits his teeth and does what damage control he can.

>> Someone who pulled that trick in my presence would never be welcome in my home or any other space over which I had any say, and furthermore I would make sure everyone else in our social circle knew that this person was willing to kill someone with a food allergy because THEY didn't believe in such a thing. <<

Sensible if you have people in your circle with serious medical needs. For a case of personal distaste like Lily's, it is merely very rude. One problem persistently mentioned in allergy awareness is a failure to distinguish between types of response (i.e. allergy, digestive intolerance, medical diet, religious obligation, pregnancy, drug interaction, personal aversion) and level of severity (philosophical objection, discomfort, ambulance required). People whose only exposure is to folks with nonmedical issues or mild allergies usually don't know that food problems can disable someone for days, put them in the hospital, or kill them. That doesn't make it okay, but does explain the prevalence.

>> There have been a couple of documented instances of restaurant chefs pulling that stunt in the kitchens*, which is even worse. <<

America's food supply is simply unreliable. So many products and restaurants have "may contain" labels that it becomes impossible in practice to obtain a healthy diet which is guaranteed safe from contaminants. A prevailing problem is that foods are processed all in the same plant, instead of separately. Another is that food service personnel often aren't educated about the types of dietary needs and how to accommodate them safely. Hell, I've had it go the other way; our favorite ethnic food store is run by Muslims and thus doesn't stock pork products. This came up in a conversation about sausage -- they'll stock lamb chorizo but not pork -- and he was surprised that our response was "Oh right, no pork" instead of complaints.

One challenge for restaurants is that by definition they have to serve a lot of people, and the range of dietary needs is very broad. If you cut out everything that may be restricted, there's almost nothing left. It's not too difficult to accommodate one special diet (there are vegetarian restaurants, for instance, and some Jewish-run delis keep kosher) or an occasional customer. But the number of people with dietary needs has skyrocketed, which makes it much harder -- and more expensive -- for restaurants to keep up. Some do better than others, and I'm keeping an eye out for techniques that work.

T-America is moving toward processing allergens in separate facilities. They have at least a couple of restaurant chains that either do not serve the leading allergens (the ones that have to be listed on labels) or prepare those in a separate kitchen. Donnie's Diner makes a point of hiring some employees with nutritionist or dietician credentials to handle customers with special needs. It's a little more expensive but a lot safer.

>> * One involved a chef who would deliberately lie to customers about having gluten-free pasta and serve them regular pasta instead. I believe the other one was about serving food made with chicken broth and labeling it "vegetarian". That one... I used to know someone who was lethally allergic to any kind of poultry, as in "Epi-pen and hospital NOW". I'm just glad neither of those idiots actually killed anyone. But they could have. <<

One could certainly sue them for fraud, and depending on local laws, possibly also assault. One way to deal with this in practice is to inform the restaurant up front what your needs are and your level of risk, and explicitly ask if they're willing to assume responsibility -- with liability for contamination -- for your food safety. Many will outright refuse to serve you if it requires being held accountable, but then you can check ADA parameters to see who is or isn't obligated to feed everyone safely. This level of fussiness is best reserved for serious cases.

I just basically won't go back to a place that hassles anyone about food, or eat with people who aren't reasonably reliable and careful. I always pack munchies when traveling, just in case. It's hard enough trying to accommodate everyone's needs without the staff making it harder. Tracking ingredients is really difficult even when folks are trying, though. Some things I can accommodate, others not so much. But at least I'm honest about my skill level and I encourage people to double-check everything.

Anyhow, if you want to prompt for more of this stuff, I have other characters with allergies or other special needs in dietary areas. Nathaniel has sensory-processing disorder and allergies; Damask's housemate Josephine is vegetarian. I've also got some Muslims and Jews.

Re: Thoughts

[shadowdreamer]

I'm late to the party as usual- very late- but wouldn't it be simpler to have an allergen free room, a smaller sub-kitchen for making foods for folk with sensitivities? Easier to clean down one room between uses to avoid cross contamination, rather than making the Safe plates on the line with everything else- particularly for the folk with multiple or rare allergies, because with some- or anyone with MCAS- even being prepped in the same room as an allergen can lead to an epi-pen being needed.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> wouldn't it be simpler to have an allergen free room, a smaller sub-kitchen for making foods for folk with sensitivities? Easier to clean down one room between uses to avoid cross contamination, <<

A large enough restaurant can afford to do that. In a small one, there isn't room.

You can't have a room or even a workstation for every allergen, because there are too many. You also don't have time to clean the room, or even completely clean a workstation, after every prep.

In T-America, some restaurants have a prep room that is free of the 8 most common severe allergens. That means you can get something without your allergen(s) -- but you can't have any of the other major allergens even if they are safe for you.

Another approach is to stock sealed packets of food that are certified allergen-free for various things (e.g. egg-free, nut-free) but may have other allergens. This is a good way to offer a wider selection of sides and desserts. You can also mix-and-match, for instance, premade salad bowls with no allergens, which you can then top with nuts or cheese or whatever.

If they can't prep it themselves, T-American restaurants often stock whole meals for the most popular special diet or two in their area, so people will at least have something to eat if they come in with friends. Blues Moon does that with halal plates.

>> rather than making the Safe plates on the line with everything else- particularly for the folk with multiple or rare allergies, because with some- or anyone with MCAS- even being prepped in the same room as an allergen can lead to an epi-pen being needed.<<

Bluntly put, people who are that sensitive shouldn't eat in restaurants. L-America just isn't careful enough. T-America is much more careful, but even there, if you're that sensitive there's the fumes from other people's food, the server may have gotten some on them, a kid could throw a peanut when you're not looking, etc. Unless of course someone values socializing over survival, which is their choice. I value freedom over survival, after all.

[alatefeline]

I greatly enjoyed the poem. And as per usual, I found that many of the links were informative and useful, although some of them made for tough reading.

Below I discuss one at length.

The article on dinner party manners is written from a perspective I almost WISH I found incomprehensible, though. No criticism of you intended - I know you try to pick the best of a very mixed bag in terms of links. The article is ... ableist, but in a way that is trying to be helpful so hard it's extra-toxic, because it's still centered in the perception that there is a mainstream that is "just normal" and everything else can be measured in terms of how far it departs from that. But actually food and its preparation and consumption is one of the most intensely culturally, environmentally, and individually inflected activities humans have. The author feels sorry for vegetarians given brussels sprouts cooked with bacon, but she doesn't even mention *religious* requirements for food preparation, food vessels, etc.

Honestly? It may seem weird, but I would rather talk to my guests-to-be at length and serve *specific requests* than expect someone to choke down something they hate for the sake of being polite. In fact if I erred, I would rather my guests told me they hate it, because then I can find them something they consider edible and we can all actually enjoy eating together!

The advice that someone who rejects several common bland foods is being rude makes my blood boil, as someone with autism and sensory issues. There *are* whole categories of things that cannot be comfortably eaten by some people, and it's not that they are being rude. It's that certain *textures* or flavor profiles, for them, are the equivalent of being asked to down a bottle of Tabasco sauce or chew on a ball of rubber bands.

The failure to consider that there are mental/emotional intolerances that MATTER and physical intolerances that are something other than allergies is very problematic. The *only* thing that can be said for such an attitude is that this type of omission is less likely to be FATAL than ignoring the reality of life-threatening allergic reactions.

I guess what it comes down to is that I'd rather start from the bottom up and plan a shared experience that will be good by asking fairly open-ended questions, than begin from the top down with an idea of how things are supposed to work and have to clear away endless debris from hammering down inapplicable mainstream assumptions. One ends up doing some of both, of course, but I much prefer the former.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I greatly enjoyed the poem. <<

Yay!

>> And as per usual, I found that many of the links were informative and useful, although some of them made for tough reading.

Below I discuss one at length.<<

*sigh* Yeah.

>>The article on dinner party manners is written from a perspective I almost WISH I found incomprehensible, though. No criticism of you intended - I know you try to pick the best of a very mixed bag in terms of links.<<

This was the only one I could find that mentioned responsibilities on both sides. Everything else was basically a one-sided rant about how awful the other people are. 0_o Finding usable content about food is extremely difficult.

>>The article is ... ableist, but in a way that is trying to be helpful so hard it's extra-toxic, because it's still centered in the perception that there is a mainstream that is "just normal" and everything else can be measured in terms of how far it departs from that.<<

Well, there is a trend of what's the most common. But part of the problem in food dynamics today is how rapidly and far that is changing. Several decades ago, I was the only person in our monkeysphere with food problems, excepting old people whose bodies were falling apart and that was really a different thing. The amount of awareness was basically zero and the tolerance rarely higher. Now, almost everyone has dietary issues and it's not rare for some of those to be pretty serious. At least with mine, it only means being sick for a few hours if I eat the wrong thing. There's more accommodation in some ways, but at the same time, the enormous diversity of requirements means that people often feel overwhelmed and just give up. It's hard to cope with a disability when you have it and can learn how to handle it. When you've got a whole bunch of other people all asking you for mutually exclusive things, trying to memorize the different requirements is difficult or impossible. And that's if they know the exact parameters and those are required to be labled. For obscure allergies, often you're just fucked. Society isn't doing a good job of keeping up with this, either in official ways (like mandating that the most common allergens be processed separately) or plain etiquette.

>> But actually food and its preparation and consumption is one of the most intensely culturally, environmentally, and individually inflected activities humans have. The author feels sorry for vegetarians given brussels sprouts cooked with bacon, but she doesn't even mention *religious* requirements for food preparation, food vessels, etc.<<

People can't account for things they haven't encountered or otherwise had a chance to learn about. One reason we need a melting pot is that breadth of experience. If you've learned how to accommodate one type of dietary need, that forms a basis for handling others caused by different reasons. But if you don't have an example, you have to start from scratch.

>>Honestly? It may seem weird, but I would rather talk to my guests-to-be at length and serve *specific requests* than expect someone to choke down something they hate for the sake of being polite.<<

I do that too. If it's someone close to me, I'll make the extra effort. When people make requests, it's easier to accommodate; I can cook most stuff. When I'm trying to guess around unfamiliar parameters, it's a lot harder.

>> In fact if I erred, I would rather my guests told me they hate it, because then I can find them something they consider edible and we can all actually enjoy eating together!<<

Yeah, I'm weird about that too. I'd rather get accurate feedback on what people like. I refuse to take responsibility for knowing things I haven't been told.

>>The advice that someone who rejects several common bland foods is being rude makes my blood boil, as someone with autism and sensory issues. There *are* whole categories of things that cannot be comfortably eaten by some people, and it's not that they are being rude. It's that certain *textures* or flavor profiles, for them, are the equivalent of being asked to down a bottle of Tabasco sauce or chew on a ball of rubber bands. <<

That's one I've run into a lot. The etiquette point is based in certain subcultures, including Southern, which are very people-pleasing. I mean really, how polite is it to eat something that's going to make you sick? Because vomiting at the table kills everyone else's appetite too. 0_o

On the other hoof, the practical problems are very real. Cooking around dietary restrictions is a learned skill; not everyone can do it; and almost nobody can acquire it fast. So people come up with shortcuts that usually work, and one of those is offering foods which are minimally offensive. People with dietary issues also rely on this method; there are certain things I always look for on a menu because they're usually safe for me.

The most common failure is plain old respect. It's okay for bodies to be different. Everyone needs food they can eat. Most people like to hang out while eating. When you try to juggle different needs at the same table, though, it gets complicated fast. So people need to understand how to navigate that. A further challenge is when the amount of effort required to eat socially exceeds the benefit of doing so. The more complicated your requirements -- or the more serious the health impact if it goes wrong -- the less often you'll succeed and the higher the payoff has to be to justify the work and the risk. I know of people who won't eat at restaurants because it's too dangerous, or won't eat with other people because it's too fractious. I can't blame them. But there have been times when the combination of needs has left us with a restaurant nobody was enthused about, just to have a place everyone could find something vaguely edible. Navigating the limitations sucks.

>>The failure to consider that there are mental/emotional intolerances that MATTER and physical intolerances that are something other than allergies is very problematic. The *only* thing that can be said for such an attitude is that this type of omission is less likely to be FATAL than ignoring the reality of life-threatening allergic reactions.<<

It's often a lack of exposure. They think that someone else's serious aversion is the same scope as their own mild distaste. That problem can be fixed with education. The one that can't is lack of respect. Some people simply don't care if you are unhappy and thing something is wrong with you for not liking what other people like. I have found no way to fix this. You either lie and sneak food around them, or you avoid them.

>>I guess what it comes down to is that I'd rather start from the bottom up and plan a shared experience that will be good by asking fairly open-ended questions, than begin from the top down with an idea of how things are supposed to work and have to clear away endless debris from hammering down inapplicable mainstream assumptions. One ends up doing some of both, of course, but I much prefer the former.<<

I prefer open discussions too, or barring that, a buffet restaurant where everyone can get what they want. However, I am not human, and have found my preferences tend to be in the minority. This is why the people I interact with are limited. I generally prefer to go without company than put up with people who are more bother than they're worth. It's disappointing, but it's less frustrating and dangerous than trying to get things out of people they just don't want to give.

I am concerned that we're running out of ground on the topic of social eating. This worries me because food-sharing is an important bonding technique. There's a limit to which people can reasonably expect others to accommodate their needs, but if little or no accommodation is available, then people stop eating together. And when you've got a society with skyrocketing food allergies, suddenly that becomes everyone's problem. It can be very difficult and expensive for restaurants to cater to many different needs, but if they don't meet customer needs, they'll go out of business. Scylla and Charybdis.

I've looked and looked for good resources on this topic, but they're very scarce. Forget finding anything balanced that tries to find ways of negotiating needs in a group.

Re: Thoughts

[alatefeline]

It is a challenging topic, for sure.

One good idea I've seen happen is recurring twoweekly pot lucks and porch jams with a host family who provided some good basic vegetarian items, knew their guests well, and helped wrangle everyone posting a full ingredients list on their dish. Specialized application, obviously, for a tightly knit and well-clued social group, but people with thirty years of setting up multiple band practices had that level of skill at herding assorted humanoids and handling felinish hissyfits. It means that the lowest commmon denominator in terms of accuracy of labeling has to be taken as the standard, so folks who had very particular needs mostly ate stuff they brought themselves ... but the overall atmosphere was very convivial and the many folks in the medium range of necessarily or optionally picky had lots of choices.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> It is a challenging topic, for sure. <<

Yeah, because if you botch in either direction, there's no common ground and things don't happen. If people with special needs demand more than other folks are willing or able to accommodate, they don't get invited or people just quit bringing stuff. And then you've taken the problem of one person not being able to participate in food-sharing and multiplied it by 20 because now nobody's doing it. Conversely, if people refuse to accommodate dietary needs, folks with special needs get sick and/or upset, and they quit going to restaurants or dining out with friends. Both of these failure modes are very bad.

So I look for ways people can find middle ground. Having some things that are minimally objectionable is a great start. Communication and respect are essential because without those, there is zero chance of success even if the skills are available. But the way food is prepared and sold in America makes it difficult or impossible to accommodate even if you want to. That's frustrating and dangerous.

>>One good idea I've seen happen is recurring twoweekly pot lucks and porch jams with a host family who provided some good basic vegetarian items, knew their guests well, and helped wrangle everyone posting a full ingredients list on their dish.<<

Yay! I've done that for potlucks sometimes, when I could get people to go along. But hell, people usually drop me like a hot rock the moment I ask them to do anything. It's no use knowing how to do something if you can't get other people to follow along. Or even show up. *headdesk*

>> but people with thirty years of setting up multiple band practices had that level of skill at herding assorted humanoids and handling felinish hissyfits. <<

Yeah, I've been cooking for potlucks for years. *wist* Last one I attended was for Grand Prairie Friends and it was mind-blowing. One dude brought sourdough bread made with, variously, wild-caught yeast and cultured grape skins. The inside was chewy, the crust was like crunchy boot leather, but the flavor was just ... complex to the point of symphonic. I took peanut-butter cookies, which were moderately popular. Having seen people swarm the wilder offerings, this year I may try to do something with mulberries.

>>It means that the lowest commmon denominator in terms of accuracy of labeling has to be taken as the standard, so folks who had very particular needs mostly ate stuff they brought themselves <<

If you're eating with the same group of people, though, you can also learn who's reliable and who isn't. I've got a friend on a low-carb diet for medical reasons. So when we're together, it's a combination of: eat out at the barbecue place that makes naked meat, stock up on items known to be of mutual delight, and they bring some of their own food just like I do when I travel. It works out, even though I can't remember all of the details of a diet that isn't mine.

Re: Thoughts

[thnidu]

• And when you've got a society with skyrocketing food allergies
> This is alarming! Reasons, anyone? I can guess a bunch, but guessing isn't science.

• However,
  [1] I am not human, and
  [2] have found my preferences tend to be in the minority.
• [3] One of the things that marks me as not-human is that, like many predators, I find cute fuzzy animals appetizing.
> Hmm. I've met a wide enough range of my fellow humans, with a huge range of forms of #2, to doubt that #2 implies #1. And that range is wide enough to include #3. We here in America (and I'm sure this "we" is a proper subset of all Americans) have a cultural association of small and fuzzy with cute and therefore not to be harmed, including by killing and eating them; but I seriously doubt that this association of characteristics is universal across Homo sap. cultures, let alone individuals. However, you presumably have further reason to say #1.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> • And when you've got a society with skyrocketing food allergies
> This is alarming! Reasons, anyone? I can guess a bunch, but guessing isn't science. <<

My hypotheses include:

* Studies indicate that exposure to dirt, dander, germs -- in other words, nature -- lowers the risk of both allergies and asthma. That means the modern lifestyle, which is increasingly urban and germphobic, is inclined to raise the prevalence of allergies and asthma. Observations in field conditions correspond to lab findings.

* High probability that alterations to the food supply (GMO cultivars, hybridization which changes things like how much gluten is in wheat, pesticide residues, etc.) have made products less digestible and more likely to trigger an allergic response or other adverse reaction.

* Multiple sources have suggested that vaccines may cause allergies and autoimmune disorders. I am ambivalent on this topic due to the fact that every study about vaccines seems to be run by people who already have a stance, which makes them untrustworthy; one needs outside objective researches and there aren't any for this topic. So it is possibly happening, but impossible to prove or disprove with any certainty at this time.

* General toxic soup of chemicals throughout the entire biosphere are making people less healthy as a whole.

* Less obviously, we've been saving as many people as possible who are not as healthy and would probably have died a century or so ago. Some of these people then breed, often passing along their genetic flaws. Their offspring may be less robust as a result. If you spend a few generations saving people with severe allergies, then over time this may raise the percentage in the population. However, I do not think this effect alone explains the very sharp spike.

>> • However,
[1] I am not human, and
[2] have found my preferences tend to be in the minority.
• [3] One of the things that marks me as not-human is that, like many predators, I find cute fuzzy animals appetizing.
> Hmm. I've met a wide enough range of my fellow humans, with a huge range of forms of #2, to doubt that #2 implies #1. And that range is wide enough to include #3.<<

One or a few variances, sure. But when you're off almost every chart? That's probably something else.

>> We here in America (and I'm sure this "we" is a proper subset of all Americans) have a cultural association of small and fuzzy with cute and therefore not to be harmed, including by killing and eating them; but I seriously doubt that this association of characteristics is universal across Homo sap. cultures, let alone individuals. <<

Let's say it seems to be a minority opinion among cultures. Plenty will eat cows, some won't. Very few will eat dogs. Most humans find cooked meat appetizing, but rarely raw, and almost never a butchered carcass or live animal. These tastes are far more common among predatory otherkin.

>> However, you presumably have further reason to say #1. <<

Reasons include personal memory, affinity, being otherkin, and having hordes and hordes of people tell me that I'm not human. I can pass, more or less, for short periods. People see what they expect most of the time, and I'm human-shaped if you don't look too closely. But on close examination, aberrations appear on the physical as well as social level. I prefer not to let people look that closely. I get enough hassle at arm's reach.

[alatefeline]

Also...KITTY!


>> Do you want to start with
the salmon or the tuna?"

I want Kitty Wish!
Napoleon said, and
sharpened his claws
on my blue jeans. <<

LOL.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Napoleon is adorable and opinionated. Also short-sighted due to being very young. He's thinking about taste, not health.

Re: Yes...

[alatefeline]

Yes.

I should never ever EVER be trusted with a kitten on a diet. I'd say my willpower would crumble, except there wouldn't be enough of it standing to start with to begin crumbling. Trusted to play with a kitten while someone ELSE enforces reasonable meals, sure. Oddly, this weakness is species-specific - I am moved by pathetic, cute, hungry canines, humans, and other mammals, but not bowled over.

Bet once he gets a taste of good-quality real fish he'll change his tune - taste and health together, at least from any decent T-American supplier (only some of the very high end items and scattered exceptions here, alas). ANOTHER FISH. FISH NOW. FIIIISH. Heheheh.

Re: Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Oddly, this weakness is species-specific - I am moved by pathetic, cute, hungry canines, humans, and other mammals, but not bowled over. <<

I'm not surprised.

One of the things that marks me as not-human is that, like many predators, I find cute fuzzy animals appetizing. It is strongest with species I like to eat, such as rabbits or deer, but if I'm hungry then other things such as hamsters start to look tasty. Same with raw meat, I have to remind myself that it's not edible yet. It is certainly appetizing. I and some friends once had to hack up a whole lamb carcass after the spit-roast failed to materialize as intended. We had a great time. We also scared everyone else out of the house. Species-related quirks can be odd.

>> Bet once he gets a taste of good-quality real fish he'll change his tune - taste and health together, at least from any decent T-American supplier (only some of the very high end items and scattered exceptions here, alas). ANOTHER FISH. FISH NOW. FIIIISH. Heheheh. <<

LOL yes, that is entirely possible. And you're right about T-America having much higher food standards. If it says salmon, then it's salmon.

Re: Yes...

[alatefeline]

On the topic of appetizing cute animals ... someone's chickens had gotten out of their yard today and I almost hit one who was nonchalantly crossing the road. (To get to the other side, presumably). When I braked my I swear my first thought was: "Buddy, you can't become roadkill because I WANT TO EAT YOU." This is in an suburban neighborhood surrounded by miles of suburban, industrial, and urban areas, mind you. I parked and got out and knocked on the door of the house with a coop in the yard and the nice lady came and retrieved her fowl-weather friends. But dammit, they'd have looked good fried.

I swear I'm a vegetarian. I'm just HUNGRY.

[book-worm5.livejournal.com]

Hee. Napoleon is a handful, but Coby seems to be doing well - and Narcissa might actually be a help if they can come to a useful detente.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>>Hee. Napoleon is a handful, but Coby seems to be doing well<<

Very true.

>> and Narcissa might actually be a help if they can come to a useful detente.<<

Maybe, but she's a real pain in the ass. She doesn't want to let go of the supervillain thing, even though Lily isn't interested.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure which is the greater hassle, but Coby seems to be managing both remarkably well.

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

It depends on the context, I think. Napoleon is a very junior supervillain indeed, but underfoot all the time. Narcissa has plenty of experience, less contact, and a connection to Lily. So they're aggravating in different ways. I think poor Coby is doing about as well as anyone could.

Grrr!

[kengr]

>>Lily took one bite of hers
and spit it out. "This is coffee,"
she sputtered. "You know
how much I hate coffee!"

"It's mocha," Narcissa said.

"Which is chocolate with
coffee in it," Lily gritted.

"Oh, don't be silly," Narcissa said.
"I thought if I didn't tell you what
was in it, you wouldn't know you
weren't supposed to like it."<<

People have *died* from this sort of attitude.

Yeah, I've been tempted a time or two with folks, but the most I'll do is suggest they try a tiny bit of something that might taste different.

The real danger is that since so many people misuse "I'm allergic" to make folks stop doing this to them, folks start treating allergies as just a code for "dislike".

A late friend had an allergy to *lettuce*. One time at a restaurant he ordered some sort of hot sandwich and was very specific about "no lettuce".

It came with lettuce. He carefully explained that because of his allergy they'd have to remake it from scratch (especially since the heat would have driven the lettuce "stuff" into both the bread and the meat (chicken patty?)).

They said they'd do it. Took it back to the kitchen and after a few minutes brought him a "new" sandwich. After eating about half of it he started having a *major* allergy event. Wound up in the hospital.

Turned out they'd just taken the lettuce out of the original sandwich reheated the chicken, and brought it back.

He sued. They lost.

Fortunately, enough places have been sued over the years that very few places will ignore "I'm allergic" instructions, even if they roll their eyes when somebody is obvious not actually allergic (say someone asking for no salad because they are allergic to lettuce and then going "no that's fine" when the server offers to take the lettuce of their entree)

But there are still employees who have to get read the riot act (or fired) by their bosses when they start arguing with the customer (or ignoring the requests)

Don't try "blind testing" people about their food likes/dislikes much less their allergies. It can go *way* wrong.

It's also a violation of their agency.

Re: Grrr!

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>People have *died* from this sort of attitude.<<

Sadly so.

In this case, it's not an allergy, just a strong dislike. But ignoring it is still rude and troublesome.

>>The real danger is that since so many people misuse "I'm allergic" to make folks stop doing this to them, folks start treating allergies as just a code for "dislike".<<

I'm not sure it's that many more people than those who don't believe allergies in the first place. Most folks I know with dietary issues have at least one relative who doesn't believe them, even after witnessing the results.

>>It came with lettuce. He carefully explained that because of his allergy they'd have to remake it from scratch (especially since the heat would have driven the lettuce "stuff" into both the bread and the meat (chicken patty?)). <<

That's why it's unwise to give a restaurant a second chance on allergy issues. They don't get it, and that can hurt people.

It's also why many of my friends with serious allergies simply don't eat in restaurants. The social experience isn't worth risking their health. My dietary issues aren't that bad, but I still won't go back to a restaurant that is unaccommodating -- even if it's just me overhearing them refusing to help strangers at another table.

Meanwhile, I've been to places that just bend over backwards to help. One place the special came with an alcoholic sauce that someone couldn't eat. The waitress overheard us bemoaning this fact and said, "What else do you like? I'm sure the cook could make it a different way." It was just a matter of picking some other flavoring. \o/ Yes, we left a bigger tip.

>>He sued. They lost.<<

Well, good.

>>Fortunately, enough places have been sued over the years that very few places will ignore "I'm allergic" instructions, even if they roll their eyes when somebody is obvious not actually allergic <<

I've seen this as a prevalent problem. Another problem is "may contain" labels. By the time you've labeled everything that's gone through the same facility as allergens, that wipes out most of the food supply and whole restaurants. A lot of places just put a sign that says "Everything in our establishment may contain ..." which amounts to "No allergic people allowed in here." >_<

>> (say someone asking for no salad because they are allergic to lettuce and then going "no that's fine" when the server offers to take the lettuce of their entree) <<

It depends on the severity of the allergy, or the type of adverse reaction if something other than an allergy. I can't digest rice, but I can scrape it off something else. I can eat a couple bites of rice before it causes problems -- one piece of sushi, which I love.

It's a bad idea to argue with other people's food limitations. You almost never know what's really going on with their body, and it's rarely your business anyway. I only ask when I'm cooking for people.

>>It's also a violation of their agency.<<

Almost nobody understands that. I think it's because American society pays so little attention to agency. It's all about money and power. People can't learn what they haven't seen. Mostly what they've seen with food is chicanery like you described above, or some version of "Shut up and eat it." 0_o

Narcissa is the type of person

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't want to be friends with given her lack of care for people's dietary dislikes. I don't even think she'd care if Lily's dislike was actually an allergy.

Unless Lily would have had a major allergy attack.

Poor Riposte. I bet he feels like the black sheep of the family with no powers of his own. Especially if he's a carrier of superpowers and his kids - if/when he has them - end up with powers.

Aww, poor Napoleon. He has no idea that Jacob is withholding the Kitty Wish for his benefit. Especially given that it looks like he's the only one of the litter with a soy allergy. So he's watching his siblings eat Kitty Wish and all he cares about is that he isn't getting any.

Hopefully he isn't allergic to full fish and gets to enjoy fish.

Continuing onto the next poem :)

~Angel

Re: Narcissa is the type of person

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>Narcissa is the type of person

I wouldn't want to be friends with given her lack of care for people's dietary dislikes.<<

Yep.

>> I don't even think she'd care if Lily's dislike was actually an allergy.

Unless Lily would have had a major allergy attack.<<

You are probably right.

>>Poor Riposte. I bet he feels like the black sheep of the family with no powers of his own.<<

He actually gets along fine with his birth family, aside from the usual sibling tussles -- that's how he became a supernary.

>> Especially if he's a carrier of superpowers and his kids - if/when he has them - end up with powers.<<

If he has kids with Lily, it's likely.

>> Aww, poor Napoleon. He has no idea that Jacob is withholding the Kitty Wish for his benefit.<<

He's been told. He just doesn't care.

>> Especially given that it looks like he's the only one of the litter with a soy allergy. So he's watching his siblings eat Kitty Wish and all he cares about is that he isn't getting any.

Hopefully he isn't allergic to full fish and gets to enjoy fish.<<

Yeah, that sucks.