>> As I said in my prompt, the particular "rationale" offered by Narcissa is potentially lethal and makes my blood boil. <<
Yes, it's a problem. Narcissa is one of those people who is so self-centered that she just doesn't respond to other people's needs very well. They would be better off without her, but Lily isn't ready to abandon her whole family, so Coby grits his teeth and does what damage control he can.
>> Someone who pulled that trick in my presence would never be welcome in my home or any other space over which I had any say, and furthermore I would make sure everyone else in our social circle knew that this person was willing to kill someone with a food allergy because THEY didn't believe in such a thing. <<
Sensible if you have people in your circle with serious medical needs. For a case of personal distaste like Lily's, it is merely very rude. One problem persistently mentioned in allergy awareness is a failure to distinguish between types of response (i.e. allergy, digestive intolerance, medical diet, religious obligation, pregnancy, drug interaction, personal aversion) and level of severity (philosophical objection, discomfort, ambulance required). People whose only exposure is to folks with nonmedical issues or mild allergies usually don't know that food problems can disable someone for days, put them in the hospital, or kill them. That doesn't make it okay, but does explain the prevalence.
>> There have been a couple of documented instances of restaurant chefs pulling that stunt in the kitchens*, which is even worse. <<
America's food supply is simply unreliable. So many products and restaurants have "may contain" labels that it becomes impossible in practice to obtain a healthy diet which is guaranteed safe from contaminants. A prevailing problem is that foods are processed all in the same plant, instead of separately. Another is that food service personnel often aren't educated about the types of dietary needs and how to accommodate them safely. Hell, I've had it go the other way; our favorite ethnic food store is run by Muslims and thus doesn't stock pork products. This came up in a conversation about sausage -- they'll stock lamb chorizo but not pork -- and he was surprised that our response was "Oh right, no pork" instead of complaints.
One challenge for restaurants is that by definition they have to serve a lot of people, and the range of dietary needs is very broad. If you cut out everything that may be restricted, there's almost nothing left. It's not too difficult to accommodate one special diet (there are vegetarian restaurants, for instance, and some Jewish-run delis keep kosher) or an occasional customer. But the number of people with dietary needs has skyrocketed, which makes it much harder -- and more expensive -- for restaurants to keep up. Some do better than others, and I'm keeping an eye out for techniques that work.
T-America is moving toward processing allergens in separate facilities. They have at least a couple of restaurant chains that either do not serve the leading allergens (the ones that have to be listed on labels) or prepare those in a separate kitchen. Donnie's Diner makes a point of hiring some employees with nutritionist or dietician credentials to handle customers with special needs. It's a little more expensive but a lot safer.
>> * One involved a chef who would deliberately lie to customers about having gluten-free pasta and serve them regular pasta instead. I believe the other one was about serving food made with chicken broth and labeling it "vegetarian". That one... I used to know someone who was lethally allergic to any kind of poultry, as in "Epi-pen and hospital NOW". I'm just glad neither of those idiots actually killed anyone. But they could have. <<
One could certainly sue them for fraud, and depending on local laws, possibly also assault. One way to deal with this in practice is to inform the restaurant up front what your needs are and your level of risk, and explicitly ask if they're willing to assume responsibility -- with liability for contamination -- for your food safety. Many will outright refuse to serve you if it requires being held accountable, but then you can check ADA parameters to see who is or isn't obligated to feed everyone safely. This level of fussiness is best reserved for serious cases.
I just basically won't go back to a place that hassles anyone about food, or eat with people who aren't reasonably reliable and careful. I always pack munchies when traveling, just in case. It's hard enough trying to accommodate everyone's needs without the staff making it harder. Tracking ingredients is really difficult even when folks are trying, though. Some things I can accommodate, others not so much. But at least I'm honest about my skill level and I encourage people to double-check everything.
Anyhow, if you want to prompt for more of this stuff, I have other characters with allergies or other special needs in dietary areas. Nathaniel has sensory-processing disorder and allergies; Damask's housemate Josephine is vegetarian. I've also got some Muslims and Jews.
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dancing_serpent
Thoughts
Date: 2016-09-11 11:30 pm (UTC)Yes, it's a problem. Narcissa is one of those people who is so self-centered that she just doesn't respond to other people's needs very well. They would be better off without her, but Lily isn't ready to abandon her whole family, so Coby grits his teeth and does what damage control he can.
>> Someone who pulled that trick in my presence would never be welcome in my home or any other space over which I had any say, and furthermore I would make sure everyone else in our social circle knew that this person was willing to kill someone with a food allergy because THEY didn't believe in such a thing. <<
Sensible if you have people in your circle with serious medical needs. For a case of personal distaste like Lily's, it is merely very rude. One problem persistently mentioned in allergy awareness is a failure to distinguish between types of response (i.e. allergy, digestive intolerance, medical diet, religious obligation, pregnancy, drug interaction, personal aversion) and level of severity (philosophical objection, discomfort, ambulance required). People whose only exposure is to folks with nonmedical issues or mild allergies usually don't know that food problems can disable someone for days, put them in the hospital, or kill them. That doesn't make it okay, but does explain the prevalence.
>> There have been a couple of documented instances of restaurant chefs pulling that stunt in the kitchens*, which is even worse. <<
America's food supply is simply unreliable. So many products and restaurants have "may contain" labels that it becomes impossible in practice to obtain a healthy diet which is guaranteed safe from contaminants. A prevailing problem is that foods are processed all in the same plant, instead of separately. Another is that food service personnel often aren't educated about the types of dietary needs and how to accommodate them safely. Hell, I've had it go the other way; our favorite ethnic food store is run by Muslims and thus doesn't stock pork products. This came up in a conversation about sausage -- they'll stock lamb chorizo but not pork -- and he was surprised that our response was "Oh right, no pork" instead of complaints.
One challenge for restaurants is that by definition they have to serve a lot of people, and the range of dietary needs is very broad. If you cut out everything that may be restricted, there's almost nothing left. It's not too difficult to accommodate one special diet (there are vegetarian restaurants, for instance, and some Jewish-run delis keep kosher) or an occasional customer. But the number of people with dietary needs has skyrocketed, which makes it much harder -- and more expensive -- for restaurants to keep up. Some do better than others, and I'm keeping an eye out for techniques that work.
T-America is moving toward processing allergens in separate facilities. They have at least a couple of restaurant chains that either do not serve the leading allergens (the ones that have to be listed on labels) or prepare those in a separate kitchen. Donnie's Diner makes a point of hiring some employees with nutritionist or dietician credentials to handle customers with special needs. It's a little more expensive but a lot safer.
>> * One involved a chef who would deliberately lie to customers about having gluten-free pasta and serve them regular pasta instead. I believe the other one was about serving food made with chicken broth and labeling it "vegetarian". That one... I used to know someone who was lethally allergic to any kind of poultry, as in "Epi-pen and hospital NOW". I'm just glad neither of those idiots actually killed anyone. But they could have. <<
One could certainly sue them for fraud, and depending on local laws, possibly also assault. One way to deal with this in practice is to inform the restaurant up front what your needs are and your level of risk, and explicitly ask if they're willing to assume responsibility -- with liability for contamination -- for your food safety. Many will outright refuse to serve you if it requires being held accountable, but then you can check ADA parameters to see who is or isn't obligated to feed everyone safely. This level of fussiness is best reserved for serious cases.
I just basically won't go back to a place that hassles anyone about food, or eat with people who aren't reasonably reliable and careful. I always pack munchies when traveling, just in case. It's hard enough trying to accommodate everyone's needs without the staff making it harder. Tracking ingredients is really difficult even when folks are trying, though. Some things I can accommodate, others not so much. But at least I'm honest about my skill level and I encourage people to double-check everything.
Anyhow, if you want to prompt for more of this stuff, I have other characters with allergies or other special needs in dietary areas. Nathaniel has sensory-processing disorder and allergies; Damask's housemate Josephine is vegetarian. I've also got some Muslims and Jews.