(no subject)

Date: 2016-08-12 11:17 pm (UTC)
ext_74: Baron Samadai in cat form (Default)
From: [identity profile] siliconshaman.livejournal.com
Good luck with that, rebuilding ecosystems is an exacting task, especially with a delicate one like that and one that has been wiped out for quite some time. Heck, I doubt even soil structure is the same as it used to be, not after all that's been done to it. I think they're going to find it an uphill struggle...a nd one that may well even fail even that sometimes you just can't go back. [English moorlands used to be forested... until we introduced grazing animals and charcoal burning. Yet, even where those ceased hundreds of years ago, the forests aren't coming back.]

Well...

Date: 2016-08-12 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
This is partly true. The soil is less than half as deep as it used to be. Getting the exact balance of plants back would be difficult, and considering that the animals are gone, more likely impossible.

But getting something that functions as prairie is a lot easier. You just need some grass and flowers that grow tall and you don't mow them. Mainly what you are looking for is stuff that has a prodigious root system. Most prairie plants have very deep roots, 3-6 feet, and some go down as far as 12. But others have a wide fibrous type instead. Doesn't matter so much what the tops are, it's the root function function that produces the water system effects. That you can put back in order, although you'll need to support them a bit if you want it restored quickly.

Re: Well...

Date: 2016-08-12 11:36 pm (UTC)
ext_74: Baron Samadai in cat form (Default)
From: [identity profile] siliconshaman.livejournal.com
True enough, but what you have then is not the same. It's a new type of ecosystem, similar, but different. It's not going to behave quite the same either, and who knows how it would evolve over time.

Humans don't have a very good track record when it comes to fiddling with complex ecosystems. Even when our intentions are benign. Personally, I think they might be better off removing our impact as much as possible, and encourage nature to do her thing without micro-managing it all.

Re: Well...

Date: 2016-08-12 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>>True enough, but what you have then is not the same. It's a new type of ecosystem, similar, but different. It's not going to behave quite the same either, and who knows how it would evolve over time. <<

We can't put it all back, because people lost some of the pieces and will refuse to return others. I do think we can make improvements, because I've seen it done, and indeed have done it myself.

>> Humans don't have a very good track record when it comes to fiddling with complex ecosystems. Even when our intentions are benign. <<

Agreed.

>> Personally, I think they might be better off removing our impact as much as possible, and encourage nature to do her thing without micro-managing it all.<<

That method does work.

Closely related, the Bradley method relies on pulling out anything that isn't native.

Re: Well...

Date: 2016-08-13 12:04 am (UTC)
ext_74: Baron Samadai in cat form (Default)
From: [identity profile] siliconshaman.livejournal.com
The Bradly method has it's merits, but as you said, we don't have all the pieces left. However, convergent evolution means there's species that can fill the hole, just not necessarily native ones. Granted, that can go badly wrong if your not careful, and I'd advocate it used minimally.. but given that what your building isn't going to be historically the same anyway, might as well use what we do have. Besides, in some places how do you even decide what's native or not.. rabbits aren;t native to Britain for example, but they've been here since Roman times. There are 'native' grass species that came over with the original settlers in America, and I do not mean the Pilgrims!

Heck, prairie grassland isn't natural. It's a post apocalyptic scene, the result of Native American farm lands being left to go feral in the wake of the pandemic that Cortez unleashed. Or if you go further back, the scrubland that resulted from the collapse of the mega-fauna population at the end of the ice-age... partly as the result of humans hunting species to the brink.

Re: Well...

Date: 2016-08-23 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnpalmer.livejournal.com
This strikes me as having a better shot than most such attempts. Often, when something like eco-restoration is attempted, it's as a sop, or as a way of accomplishing something else that's desired, presented as ecologically beneficial. In this case, it seems founded in actual rational thought. That doesn't mean it'll work - but it's better than "let's dump loads of tires in the ocean to make an artificial reef! (because we want to get rid of the tires ANYWAY and this will shut the tree-huggers up)"

(no subject)

Date: 2016-08-14 09:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fayanora.livejournal.com
Which is slightly odd to me, as prairie is what grew in after the natives deforested the region. Humans wipe out one ecosystem, then another group of humans wiped out what replaced that one. Not saying they shouldn't do it, just... it's odd to me.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-08-16 03:13 pm (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
These folks need to read author Elizabeth Moon's blog about how she's restoring 80 acres of native Texas prairie: http://www.80acresonline.org/

Yes...

Date: 2016-08-16 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
I had heard of that. 80 acres is a lovely size for restoration. Mine is much more modest, just a fraction of an acre, but still bigger than what most people have around here.

(Obligatory "everything is bigger in Texas" joke.)

Re: Yes...

Date: 2016-08-17 02:29 am (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
Small can make a big difference, too. I was watching a show about finding alternative bee species for our pollination needs. This bee dude said he had identified over 147 different species of bees, just in one square mile.

Re: Yes...

Date: 2016-08-17 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>> Small can make a big difference, too. <<

This is true.

>> I was watching a show about finding alternative bee species for our pollination needs. This bee dude said he had identified over 147 different species of bees, just in one square mile. <<

Wow! That's amazing.

One thing I do know is that our yard has many-many species of grass and sedges, both inside and outside the prairie garden. Most are not native but that's okay. They get most of the job done. I have been planting native grasses for years and it is fun to see them flourish. My favorites include big bluestem, little bluestem, and northern sea oats.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-08-16 03:14 pm (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
P. S. While I was looking up the link to her blog, I wound up ordering one of her books online, & it's all *your* fault!

:)

Well...

Date: 2016-08-17 04:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
I'm always happy to direct a friend to a good writer.

Re: Well...

Date: 2016-08-17 12:13 pm (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
I knew her rather well before--she hangs out with filkers, after all--but didn't know the print edition of that book was available.

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