>>The moment that hit me hardest? Was when he was talking to Natasha in the hut, and said something to the effect of 'we don't always get what we want' and then *rocked the cradle*.<<
That's one of mine too. Another is how he responded when Natasha pulled a gun on him. He was so clearly terrified of her, even though she's half his size and shooting him wouldn't have done any bit of good at all. He gives in so easily when threatened, if it's about someone making him do something he doesn't want to do rather than menacing a third party.
Why yes, let's set up two abuse survivors to go push all the triggers for each other. Because nothing could possibly go wrong with that.
>>Now, sure, you could take his words as 'yeah, I really don't want to go with you', and it's not even *wrong*, but that cradle move adds about ten more possible layers of subtext without Ruffalo having said a *thing*. <<
Sooth. And the way he kept moving his hands into mudras and almost-mudras, that was highly evocative too. I'm particularly impressed with the way he used the finger-steepling gesture, which is used to focus thought and is often performed by authority figures at chest height ... and dropped it down closer to belt level, a more submissive version. It's a nonverbal equivalent to how women in positions of rank often undermine themselves by saying, "Well, I could be wrong, but ..."
>>Goddamned genius, right there. And from everything I've heard since the movie came out, that moment was NOT scripted. Ruffalo just took advantage of a prop present.<<
I really have to wonder if he tuned into the characters themselves. Some actors do. Anyone playing The Joker gets warned by the guys who have played him before, because he's such an earwig that he's dangerous. I look at this portrayal of Bruce-and-Hulk, and it's so different than previous ones, so subtle and powerful ... yeah, it makes me wonder. Thoughtforms are potent things, and people have been pouring power into superheroes for decades.
>> That said, I suspect Tony's poorskillz as you call it came about *despite* Howard. Or TO spite him. <<
Ah, okay. I can see that. It's not where I went with this interpretation of Tony, but it fits.
>> I can see Howard being all 'you're a Stark, Starks don't get their hands dirty' <<
Fair enough.
>> (The closest we see Howard to that is with the Tesseract fragment. Now he *might* have done his own work, especially during the War, but by the time Tony came around ... I'm thinking not so much) <<
Howard also made the Captain America shield, though, a whole batch of different models. So I have a quietly conflicting garage/mechanic thing going for Howard and Tony.
>> and Tony going 'I am going to get as dirty as humanly possible. Nyah!' <<
*laugh* So very Tony. I may play with that some other time, if it ever comes up.
>>I just realized as I was typing that Tony is a troll.<<
Yeah, that's a problem. He has a downright sadistic streak. Jolting Bruce with a tiny cattle prod was all kinds of not okay. I've largely ignored that for this series, because the sadistic streak doesn't really fit with Tony as I'm writing him here; but it's there in canon.
>> He deliberately antagonizes god and everyone, sometimes playfully, sometimes not. Thing is, to be a successful troll, you have to be able to read people like *whoah*, which means knowing body language. <<
So do abuse survivors, as a defense mechanism. That's a big part of why Tony, Bruce, and Clint all tend to test people in different ways -- to see how they'll snap, so as to know when and how to avoid the strike.
>>And Tony is a spectacularly successful troll, both in instigating responses from people and in NOT having those responses be 'punch Tony in the face' unless he *wants* that to be the reaction, like he did with Loki.<<
Yeah.
I think it's interesting that Steve, Tony, and Hulk all gave Loki chances to stand down from the fight at different points in time. And of the three, Tony was the one to offer hospitality and I suspect it may have been deliberate. There probably isn't much Tony Stark doesn't know about the history of alcohol, including its occasional peacemaking applications.
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dancing_serpent
Re: Thank you!
Date: 2013-04-28 08:23 am (UTC)That's okay, I still knew it was you.
>>The moment that hit me hardest? Was when he was talking to Natasha in the hut, and said something to the effect of 'we don't always get what we want' and then *rocked the cradle*.<<
That's one of mine too. Another is how he responded when Natasha pulled a gun on him. He was so clearly terrified of her, even though she's half his size and shooting him wouldn't have done any bit of good at all. He gives in so easily when threatened, if it's about someone making him do something he doesn't want to do rather than menacing a third party.
Why yes, let's set up two abuse survivors to go push all the triggers for each other. Because nothing could possibly go wrong with that.
>>Now, sure, you could take his words as 'yeah, I really don't want to go with you', and it's not even *wrong*, but that cradle move adds about ten more possible layers of subtext without Ruffalo having said a *thing*. <<
Sooth. And the way he kept moving his hands into mudras and almost-mudras, that was highly evocative too. I'm particularly impressed with the way he used the finger-steepling gesture, which is used to focus thought and is often performed by authority figures at chest height ... and dropped it down closer to belt level, a more submissive version. It's a nonverbal equivalent to how women in positions of rank often undermine themselves by saying, "Well, I could be wrong, but ..."
>>Goddamned genius, right there. And from everything I've heard since the movie came out, that moment was NOT scripted. Ruffalo just took advantage of a prop present.<<
I really have to wonder if he tuned into the characters themselves. Some actors do. Anyone playing The Joker gets warned by the guys who have played him before, because he's such an earwig that he's dangerous. I look at this portrayal of Bruce-and-Hulk, and it's so different than previous ones, so subtle and powerful ... yeah, it makes me wonder. Thoughtforms are potent things, and people have been pouring power into superheroes for decades.
>> That said, I suspect Tony's poorskillz as you call it came about *despite* Howard. Or TO spite him. <<
Ah, okay. I can see that. It's not where I went with this interpretation of Tony, but it fits.
>> I can see Howard being all 'you're a Stark, Starks don't get their hands dirty' <<
Fair enough.
>> (The closest we see Howard to that is with the Tesseract fragment. Now he *might* have done his own work, especially during the War, but by the time Tony came around ... I'm thinking not so much) <<
Howard also made the Captain America shield, though, a whole batch of different models. So I have a quietly conflicting garage/mechanic thing going for Howard and Tony.
>> and Tony going 'I am going to get as dirty as humanly possible. Nyah!' <<
*laugh* So very Tony. I may play with that some other time, if it ever comes up.
>>I just realized as I was typing that Tony is a troll.<<
Yeah, that's a problem. He has a downright sadistic streak. Jolting Bruce with a tiny cattle prod was all kinds of not okay. I've largely ignored that for this series, because the sadistic streak doesn't really fit with Tony as I'm writing him here; but it's there in canon.
>> He deliberately antagonizes god and everyone, sometimes playfully, sometimes not. Thing is, to be a successful troll, you have to be able to read people like *whoah*, which means knowing body language. <<
So do abuse survivors, as a defense mechanism. That's a big part of why Tony, Bruce, and Clint all tend to test people in different ways -- to see how they'll snap, so as to know when and how to avoid the strike.
>>And Tony is a spectacularly successful troll, both in instigating responses from people and in NOT having those responses be 'punch Tony in the face' unless he *wants* that to be the reaction, like he did with Loki.<<
Yeah.
I think it's interesting that Steve, Tony, and Hulk all gave Loki chances to stand down from the fight at different points in time. And of the three, Tony was the one to offer hospitality and I suspect it may have been deliberate. There probably isn't much Tony Stark doesn't know about the history of alcohol, including its occasional peacemaking applications.