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[livejournal.com profile] caveman_joe explains in gloriously organized detail why ebooks suck, why they should not suck, some things that could be done to make ebooks stop sucking so much, and some features that would be attractive in an online fiction magazine.  If you write cyberfunded material, or would like to; or have anything to do with electronic writing, reading, or publishing; this post is well worth reading.

Not everyone thinks that ebooks suck, which is okay.  I don't think they suck 100% and I don't agree with every single point on this list, but I do agree with most of the points, which is why I almost never read ebooks.  I am, however, really pleased by this list because it will be useful to me if I decide to release some ebooks (which I am considering) and for my ongoing work in promoting cyberfunded creativity (which will hopefully evolve into a website). 

Learning new technology is always a bumpy ride.  This is a rubbing of the bumps on the way to enjoying electronic literature.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-15 10:41 pm (UTC)
fannyfae: (businesswoman)
From: [personal profile] fannyfae
Thank you for posting that. I could not agree more! What I resent is having to buy another device, potentially. At least, that was the case until Kindle for PC came along. However, one of the books I was interested in getting an electronic version of was Robert Greene's "48 Laws of Power". I had Amazon send me a sample chapter to sort of determine whether it was worth paying for yet another version of the book (I have a soft cover and I have it also on tape). The Kindle version was absolutely HORRIBLE! Part of the reason why that book is one my favourites is the way that the pages are formatted. It's filled with quotes and vignettes in the galleys and with different typeface colours, italics, fonts, etc. and it's just one of the coolest ways I have seen someone format a book. This that wonderful formatting did not carry over to the e-version. I was really disappointed. Needless to say I did not buy the Kindle version

There is nothing like a good old fashioned book to curl up with and there is no more cozy room in the house than one that is lined with floor to ceiling bookshelves. You can't do that with eBooks either.

Thoughts

Date: 2009-12-15 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>>What I resent is having to buy another device, potentially. At least, that was the case until Kindle for PC came along. <<

Yes. I'm not keen on shelling out hundreds of dollars for another gadget. I'm not fond of gadgets, though I know some folks are. But eventually that price will lower; you can get calculators for free now.

>>This that wonderful formatting did not carry over to the e-version.<<

Yeesh. I can see how that would be very off-putting. At least you got to sample it first, though. That's a handy feature.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-15 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
I loved the presentation of that--very effective.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-15 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] worthyadvisor.livejournal.com
There are a number of ways I think ebooks can be done better, but I don't think that his stance on ebook readers is a bit harsh. I really like the fact that the e-ink isn't backlit, since the backlighting really bothers my eyes, where the e-ink doesn't. (I've actually asked [livejournal.com profile] mcahogarth to release pdfs, and they read fine on my reader (although, Cory Doctorow released a pdf that had columns, and the reader didn't like it).

Anywho, yeah, you're right. It's going to be awhile before people get into the ebook thing. (And, honestly, I don't mind paying more for an ebook than a song, since, well, it's a book...*shrug*

Thoughts

Date: 2009-12-15 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>> I really like the fact that the e-ink isn't backlit, since the backlighting really bothers my eyes, where the e-ink doesn't.<<

This seems to vary from person to person. I try to minimize reading books on the computer, because I'm on the computer all day working; after enough hours, yes, it's hard on my eyes. But e-ink has such low contrast and lighting, it's hard on my eyes immediately. I could never read anything like that.

Re: Thoughts

Date: 2009-12-16 03:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] worthyadvisor.livejournal.com
To me, it reads like newsprint, or your average trade paperback. I have a little booklight thingy for it, but for me it seems to be fine in regular light, and, more importantly, sunlight (and that's the huge advantage to me for e-ink).

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-16 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haikujaguar.livejournal.com
I'm with you about finding e-ink far more readable than LCDs.

I appreciate that e-books at this point aren't for everyone and we're still looking for solutions for people who want to read them but find it difficult or counter-intuitive, but I find it tiresome to see the same kind of arguments reiterated long after they've been proven wrong or changed.

Also, at this point 40% of my Shell sales have been e-books...! So there is a market there that is content with how things are shaping up.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-16 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laturner.livejournal.com
I've just made the step from ignoring eBooks to reading them on my iPhone. The first one I bought was Worth of a Shell. I found that it's fairly easy to read, in fact I zone out just as easily as when reading a paperback. I do a lot of reading on computer screens each day, and maybe I'm just used to it. They really do need to provide a good format and a way to pay authors directly.

What about the paperback books I currently own? I shouldn't have to pay full price for an electronic version, but I would pay another dollar or so, especially if it went directly to the author.

Thoughts

Date: 2009-12-17 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>>They really do need to provide a good format and a way to pay authors directly. <<

Well, cyberfunded creativity is great for the latter. I hope it grows.

>>What about the paperback books I currently own? I shouldn't have to pay full price for an electronic version, but I would pay another dollar or so, especially if it went directly to the author.<<

One interesting thing about publishing is that, when books go out of print, the rights often revert to the author. So there are thousands of books out there now that have done this. The authors could have those books turned into ebooks and sell them for a dollar or two -- after all, they've been paid for that material already when it came out in hardcopy.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-16 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cissa.livejournal.com
Right now my average cost-per-book is someplace between about $8 (the cost of a new paperback) and $2.50 (the effective cost of a new-to-me book from a swap site, since that's about what it costs me to send a book).

However, this cost tends to the $2.50 end since I can then trade a new book for a series of others until I find one I want to keep.

Since I can't do that with ebooks, and they cost more than $2.50, they are not good choices for me. I will not be interested in ebooks for purchase until they lose the DRM crap AND cost less than $2.50 each.

Yes...

Date: 2009-12-16 10:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
I buy used books when I can't afford to buy new ones and haven't gotten a review copy of something crucial.

I would be interested in ebooks in the under $5 range. However, there's something interesting here: when I go to the blog-skills sites, I constantly see people recommending that bloggers put out a FREE ebook as a marketing tool. Sure enough, plenty of people have done that, and it seems to work if the book's content is any good. (It doesn't magically make you able to write.) So I'm seriously thinking about putting out an ebook of some kind as a free sample. There was also that article I linked not too long ago, about the guy who found his self-published $2 ebooks outselling his expensive publisher-made ebooks by thousands of copies. So I think that free or cheap ebooks have a lot of potential.

*ponder* One possibility would be for writers to put out the first book of a fictional series free or cheap, as a way to create an audience for later books.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-12-23 01:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmegaera.livejournal.com
Hi, I'm new here, but as a former librarian and used book store aficionado, my problems are not just with the physical format. They're with the following.

1) The high (anything above $100, IMHO) upfront cost of the (empty!)
reader, and the assumption that if you don't want to buy a dedicated reader
you can just use your iPhone/PDA/laptop/other portable electronic device,
when I do not possess/have any use for any of those (also high-priced)
gadgets, either (well, I'd like a laptop someday, but that's another
argument).
2) DRM and incompatible formats and their associated hassle. Proprietary
readers, like the Kindle.
3) The often decades-long gap between out-of-print and out-of-copyright,
where the content would be in limbo and unavailable for purchase if you
can't buy used books, which is related to
4) The whole used bookstore and resale issue, which must be preserved
somehow, and to the
5) There's always plenty of free stuff at Project Gutenberg gambit. I am
grateful for Project Gutenberg, don't get me wrong, but the point is, it's
beside the point from my point of view.

Unless ebooks become a true equivalent of their print cousins, they're never going to be an adequate substitute.

I could just ignore their existence except that there are more and more books out there available only in e-format, some of which I want to read (not to the extent of sitting in front of my desktop computer for several hours, mind you) that I have no access to.

Anyway, thanks for listening to a complete stranger.

Welcome!

Date: 2009-12-23 05:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>>Hi, I'm new here, but as a former librarian and used book store aficionado, my problems are not just with the physical format.<<

It's good to make new friends. Pull up a cushion and chat for a bit.

>>1) The high (anything above $100, IMHO) upfront cost of the (empty!)
reader,<<

I agree. You buy a book and you can just read it, right off the shelf. I like that about books. And all the pages are right there, ready to be turned as fast as I read; and there are no batteries to go dead. Because when I read, I can do it for hours. The tech is a long way from keeping up with me, and anything less is so maddening I probably couldn't use it.

>>2) DRM and incompatible formats and their associated hassle. Proprietary
readers, like the Kindle.<<

This drives me nuts too. When I buy something, I want it to be mine, and I'm reluctant to shell out money for anything less. As a writer ... well, if I didn't want to share my work, I'd leave it in a drawer. Putting up barriers to people enjoying my work seems rather counterproductive.

>>3) The often decades-long gap between out-of-print and out-of-copyright,
where the content would be in limbo and unavailable for purchase if you
can't buy used books,<<

Yes, this drives me crazy, especially since publishers are now trying to jigger contracts so nothing ever goes out of print but is still not readily available. I want material to be easily obtainable and I want authors to make a decent living from writing -- and I don't think those are unreasonable goals to want.

>>4) The whole used bookstore and resale issue, which must be preserved
somehow, <<

Hmm ... I love used bookstores. They let me trade books I don't want for books I do, and make it possible for me to get old books, and buy books when I'm too broke for new ones. But I'm not sure how to make such a thing interact with ebooks.

>>Unless ebooks become a true equivalent of their print cousins, they're never going to be an adequate substitute.<<

I'm not sure about this. I think part of the problem is that a lot of people are trying to make ebooks be exactly like print books ... and they aren't. They shouldn't be. They're something different, with its own strengths and weaknesses. People are already starting to use them in different ways. I think we should have both. The problem is, I suspect that market forces may continue to whittle away at the availability of hardcopy books. That's bad because ebooks aren't really a replacement for paper books. If they're all that survives, some people will be shut out of the reading experience.

>>I could just ignore their existence except that there are more and more books out there available only in e-format, some of which I want to read (not to the extent of sitting in front of my desktop computer for several hours, mind you) that I have no access to. <<

*nod* I find this frustrating too. I think it's better than those books not existing at all, but that's no help to folks who can't or won't use ebooks. I'm already on the computer so much that I really cannot afford to make it my book-reading medium. I only read ebooks on my computer, and I only do it when there's no other way to get something I can't do without.

>>Anyway, thanks for listening to a complete stranger.<<

*grin* If you hang out in my blog, you won't be a stranger for long.

Re: Welcome!

Date: 2009-12-23 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmegaera.livejournal.com
I think we should have both. The problem is, I suspect that market forces may continue to whittle away at the availability of hardcopy books. That's bad because ebooks aren't really a replacement for paper books. If they're all that survives, some people will be shut out of the reading experience.

I think eventually paper books will go the way of vinyl records, unfortunately, novelty items only a few will collect. So it is to everyone's best interests that the industry be sure to include all the important aspects of print books into ebooks. The problem, of course, being that the industry does not agree with the rest of us about what's important. At fifty, I'm beginning to realize that I personally may not have to deal with this, and am gradually switching from "wow, exciting new world" mode to "wait a minute, let's think about this." So I may just be an old curmudgeon, but it doesn't make me feel any less sorry for those who come after me.

E-anything is so bloody ephemeral, too. In my career I've worked with physical paper card catalogs, microfilm catalogs, and at least a dozen electronic catalog systems, each supposedly an improvement on the last. As a librarian friend of mine said, it's disgusting to have to explain to one's patrons/taxpayers why the latest and greatest system that cost them so much money is down yet again, so no, that information is out of reach until we get it fixed. Or isn't available in that format at all, but in the one we chose not to buy or no longer have access to (cassette tapes, anyone?). I don't mind the constant trading up (or wherever) when it comes to other content like music, but books are too valuable to trust to such systems for the long term until the technology matures to the point where books in a format from forty years ago will still be readable in a modern machine. Which is not likely to happen for decades, if at all.

There's so much wrong with the whole concept, yet no one is addressing these very important problems (not even the American Library Association, so far as I can tell).

*grin* If you hang out in my blog, you won't be a stranger for long.

Thank you kindly [g].

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