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ysabetwordsmith[EDIT 8/7/11: If 25 people vote in the poll about the fishbowl, I'll post "An Arm and a Leg" for free, the next Clockwork War poem. Your feedback is valuable. Thanks to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
my_partner_doug for suggesting a perk for poll votes.]
[EDIT 8/9/11: The poll is at 24 votes, just 1 more needed to earn the perk.] MET!
The August 2, 2011 Poetry Fishbowl was wildly successful. I'm trying to think about why that happened, and how I can keep the "successful" part while channeling the "wild" into something easier to manage. Audience input is encouraged.
New Things
These are the new things I did this month. I believe they contributed to the exceptional level of activity. Also possibly relevant is that we recently came off the LJ Spotlight in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
crowdfunding.
* A progress meter so people could see how much had be raised in donations, and thus, how far it was to the various goals.
* New perk: an extra series fishbowl if donations reach $200.
* New perk: an epic poem to be revealed one verse at a time in exchange for linkbacks.
* Impromptu perk: a free epic poem if donations reach $300.
Factors in Fishbowl Performance
These are some things I have identified, previously or recently, that affect the workflow of a fishbowl.
* The more people comment and talk, the more messages there will be that seem to need a prompt reply. This is a basic factor in fishbowls. Higher participation is a good thing. I just have to keep an eye on the level and type of my interaction during the fishbowl.
* The more people buy during the fishbowl, the more time it takes me to upload poems. I do not like making people wait, plus posting poems does encourage other people to donate and gives bystanders something to enjoy. This is not something I can delegate and not something I want to discourage.
* Adding the ticker took a little extra time. Feedback suggests that people really like the ticker, and that it contributed to the spectacular income, so I'd prefer to keep it. I may delegate updating it.
* Adding the linkback-perk-poem took up a substantial amount of extra time. People liked that too; I got about three or four times as many linkbacks as usual. I will probably do it again, though maybe not every month. I may delegate it; I've had an offer for this. We don't know yet whether this really drives traffic to my blog. Previous input suggests that people often sample the fishbowl for the first time ... after having seen references to it several times.
Specifically, the ticker and the linkback accounted for the slow start early in the fishbowl. I had a trickle of prompts early, then a firehose that continued for most of the day and I never did catch up.
* Epics pwn me, sometimes for hours of time. Seriously, I worked on "Stained" off and on for a substantial chunk of the afternoon. Something similar happens with poems that require background research to set up the writing. So too, plot nugget prompts that give me a whole storyline are easy to follow but usually hit long or epic size, which takes time. Series poems, among my most popular offerings, frequently fall into one or more of these categories. There is little to be done about this, as I have only manual steering on my muse and the results are usually excellent poems that sell.
Possible Changes
These are things that might help with time management during future fishbowls, so that I could spend more time writing and/or have less of an overload.
* Delegate the ticker management to someone else. Also possible would be dropping the ticker if it's not as popular as it seems.
* Delegate the posting of verses in the linkback-perk-poem to someone else. (I've had one volunteer already, and had actually thought about this earlier.) This is another one that could be dropped if it doesn't produce results that justify its time expenditure.
* Close the fishbowl to further prompts if I have enough to fill the rest of the day. I thought about doing this during the fishbowl, and decided not to, because it seemed like cheating to me. I thought I could catch up; I always have before. But there is, somewhere, a finite limit to what I can accomplish in a day and this time we crossed it. This one is all on me; I need to learn more about workflow handling, and that includes cutting off the prompts if necessary. If I'd done this when I thought of it, I would've been in a lot better shape because it would've prevented the last handful that really pushed things over the edge. Live and learn.
* Ask people to read prompts before posting. This one is dicey. You'll notice that some of the things which eat time are types of prompts that lead to high-quality, high-popularity poems. I'm reluctant to mess with that because I don't want to lose those entirely. But having them not stack really high would be helpful. So, if you're willing and able to skim the other prompts before posting your own, this is a way you can help. Is the fishbowl slow, with little or nothing in the way of series requests, historicals, plot nuggets, etc.? Full steam ahead. But if you can already see several of those, then lighter prompts might be more helpful. Another thing you can check is my activity level. Have I already written something for all or most of the prompters? Full steam ahead. Are there several or more people I haven't covered yet? Throttle back slightly. If you're not sure ... leave me the prompts you're thinking of. I don't want to undercut my audience input because some fishbowls go really slow, which is not something to aim for.
*jenny_evergreen suggested moving the series poems to the extra fishbowl. my_partner_doug pointed out that this would probably increase the tendency for prompts to turn into series poems during the main fishbowl, as people (including me) try not to think of a purple rhinoceros. However, I kind of like the idea of bundling the series poems together in a fishbowl (which could carry over the same theme) because it would give more leeway than working with a single fishbowl. This point is listed here for discussion purposes.
Feedback Requested
I'm trying to distinguish which things are easier to change and which are harder, and which things are having a strong positive impact that justifies their continuation. This is where you, the audience, get to tell me how important things are to you and what you think is working. Answering the poll and providing other input will be very helpful to me.
Poem lengths: Short = 0-10 lines, Medium-short = 11-25 lines, Medium-long = 26-40 lines, Long = 41-60 lines, Epic = 61+ lines.
[Poll #1767604]
If you have other feedback on what you like or don't like about the Poetry Fishbowl project, or ideas for improving it, please let me know. Thank you all for your input.
my_partner_doug for suggesting a perk for poll votes.][
The August 2, 2011 Poetry Fishbowl was wildly successful. I'm trying to think about why that happened, and how I can keep the "successful" part while channeling the "wild" into something easier to manage. Audience input is encouraged.
New Things
These are the new things I did this month. I believe they contributed to the exceptional level of activity. Also possibly relevant is that we recently came off the LJ Spotlight in
crowdfunding.* A progress meter so people could see how much had be raised in donations, and thus, how far it was to the various goals.
* New perk: an extra series fishbowl if donations reach $200.
* New perk: an epic poem to be revealed one verse at a time in exchange for linkbacks.
* Impromptu perk: a free epic poem if donations reach $300.
Factors in Fishbowl Performance
These are some things I have identified, previously or recently, that affect the workflow of a fishbowl.
* The more people comment and talk, the more messages there will be that seem to need a prompt reply. This is a basic factor in fishbowls. Higher participation is a good thing. I just have to keep an eye on the level and type of my interaction during the fishbowl.
* The more people buy during the fishbowl, the more time it takes me to upload poems. I do not like making people wait, plus posting poems does encourage other people to donate and gives bystanders something to enjoy. This is not something I can delegate and not something I want to discourage.
* Adding the ticker took a little extra time. Feedback suggests that people really like the ticker, and that it contributed to the spectacular income, so I'd prefer to keep it. I may delegate updating it.
* Adding the linkback-perk-poem took up a substantial amount of extra time. People liked that too; I got about three or four times as many linkbacks as usual. I will probably do it again, though maybe not every month. I may delegate it; I've had an offer for this. We don't know yet whether this really drives traffic to my blog. Previous input suggests that people often sample the fishbowl for the first time ... after having seen references to it several times.
Specifically, the ticker and the linkback accounted for the slow start early in the fishbowl. I had a trickle of prompts early, then a firehose that continued for most of the day and I never did catch up.
* Epics pwn me, sometimes for hours of time. Seriously, I worked on "Stained" off and on for a substantial chunk of the afternoon. Something similar happens with poems that require background research to set up the writing. So too, plot nugget prompts that give me a whole storyline are easy to follow but usually hit long or epic size, which takes time. Series poems, among my most popular offerings, frequently fall into one or more of these categories. There is little to be done about this, as I have only manual steering on my muse and the results are usually excellent poems that sell.
Possible Changes
These are things that might help with time management during future fishbowls, so that I could spend more time writing and/or have less of an overload.
* Delegate the ticker management to someone else. Also possible would be dropping the ticker if it's not as popular as it seems.
* Delegate the posting of verses in the linkback-perk-poem to someone else. (I've had one volunteer already, and had actually thought about this earlier.) This is another one that could be dropped if it doesn't produce results that justify its time expenditure.
* Close the fishbowl to further prompts if I have enough to fill the rest of the day. I thought about doing this during the fishbowl, and decided not to, because it seemed like cheating to me. I thought I could catch up; I always have before. But there is, somewhere, a finite limit to what I can accomplish in a day and this time we crossed it. This one is all on me; I need to learn more about workflow handling, and that includes cutting off the prompts if necessary. If I'd done this when I thought of it, I would've been in a lot better shape because it would've prevented the last handful that really pushed things over the edge. Live and learn.
* Ask people to read prompts before posting. This one is dicey. You'll notice that some of the things which eat time are types of prompts that lead to high-quality, high-popularity poems. I'm reluctant to mess with that because I don't want to lose those entirely. But having them not stack really high would be helpful. So, if you're willing and able to skim the other prompts before posting your own, this is a way you can help. Is the fishbowl slow, with little or nothing in the way of series requests, historicals, plot nuggets, etc.? Full steam ahead. But if you can already see several of those, then lighter prompts might be more helpful. Another thing you can check is my activity level. Have I already written something for all or most of the prompters? Full steam ahead. Are there several or more people I haven't covered yet? Throttle back slightly. If you're not sure ... leave me the prompts you're thinking of. I don't want to undercut my audience input because some fishbowls go really slow, which is not something to aim for.
*
jenny_evergreen suggested moving the series poems to the extra fishbowl. my_partner_doug pointed out that this would probably increase the tendency for prompts to turn into series poems during the main fishbowl, as people (including me) try not to think of a purple rhinoceros. However, I kind of like the idea of bundling the series poems together in a fishbowl (which could carry over the same theme) because it would give more leeway than working with a single fishbowl. This point is listed here for discussion purposes.Feedback Requested
I'm trying to distinguish which things are easier to change and which are harder, and which things are having a strong positive impact that justifies their continuation. This is where you, the audience, get to tell me how important things are to you and what you think is working. Answering the poll and providing other input will be very helpful to me.
Poem lengths: Short = 0-10 lines, Medium-short = 11-25 lines, Medium-long = 26-40 lines, Long = 41-60 lines, Epic = 61+ lines.
[Poll #1767604]
If you have other feedback on what you like or don't like about the Poetry Fishbowl project, or ideas for improving it, please let me know. Thank you all for your input.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-06 07:14 pm (UTC)As far as the purple rhinoceros problem...there's nothing stopping you from doing the serial poetry fishbowl first, then doing a general one on the same theme.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-07 04:30 am (UTC)That's okay.
>>I do particularly like the serials, because it's almost a crossover between prose and poetry and I like the complex stories that can be told that way.<<
*nod* That's a key part of their appeal for me too.
>>As far as the purple rhinoceros problem...there's nothing stopping you from doing the serial poetry fishbowl first, then doing a general one on the same theme.<<
Ah, that's a possibility too. I will keep this in mind.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-07 12:23 am (UTC)/volunteers to do the ticker/
The only time I could not do this is when the 1st Tuesday falls on the 1st and, even then, you wake up and get going so late in my day (coastal difference) it would probably work.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-07 09:26 pm (UTC)Re: Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-07 09:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-07 01:08 am (UTC)Yes...
Date: 2011-08-07 04:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-07 06:59 pm (UTC)* No preference on length, because different subjects require different treatment.
* On the other hand, it's kind of fun to sponsor more shorter poems, so I'm probably lying when I say I don't have a preference.
* The ticker was kind of fun, but not at the expense of your frustration to get it to work.
* The extra perks are nice, but I feel guilty about contributing just to get perks (I do NOT impute less than pure motives to anyone else who contributes; I just know that I'm not a very nice person and am mostly selfish).
* Especially the slow reveal of the poem for link backs. It was fun, but I feel guilty about the time it took away from your writing.
Right now, I'm wanting to read short, light, comic things, rather than serious things. In and of itself, this is okay, except that it was exceedingly unfair of me to try to impose it on you. I'm very sorry that what I said made you think I was disappointed in "Redemption".
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-07 07:37 pm (UTC)I've noticed that, when a poll offers options for different combinations of poems, people usually settle on the option that offers more poems rather than longer ones.
>>* The ticker was kind of fun, but not at the expense of your frustration to get it to work.<<
>>* The extra perks are nice, but I feel guilty about contributing just to get perks (I do NOT impute less than pure motives to anyone else who contributes; I just know that I'm not a very nice person and am mostly selfish).<<
Crowdfunding is a symbiotic business model. I don't offer things that I can't really spare; and indeed, crowdfunding is far more productive than conventional publishing for me. If contributing gets you things you want, and gets me things I want, then we both win. This is true for the cash-based goals and for the non-cash ones alike. (Also, I disagree with your self-assessment.)
>>* Especially the slow reveal of the poem for link backs. It was fun, but I feel guilty about the time it took away from your writing.<<
Happily this is also something that can be delegated, and I've got a volunteer. I did enjoy this perk, though -- for some reason, revealing verses is exciting to me. I don't know exactly why, but it is. I get a similar buzz from posting new verses in the microfunded epics.
I'm leaning toward delegating this to someone else, and there are a couple different ways that could be made to work. Doing so would free up that bit of time.
>>Right now, I'm wanting to read short, light, comic things, rather than serious things.<<
Noted and logged. This kind of information is useful. It may not always work out, because my muse steering is variable; but it gives me something to aim for and definitely boosts your chances of getting that sort of thing.
I don't know if you'll still be in the same mood then, but "humor & whimsy" is the November theme.
>> In and of itself, this is okay, except that it was exceedingly unfair of me to try to impose it on you. <<
If someone were really pushy, I could see that as unfair; but making requests for what one would like to see is a core part of the fishbowl. Mood/tone requests are perfectly valid.
>>I'm very sorry that what I said made you think I was disappointed in "Redemption".<<
Your comment was clear that while the poem didn't go in quite the direction you expected, you did enjoy it. Sometimes I produce things that are very tightly matched to an initial prompt; other times they veer off elsewhere. If you're wondering why I didn't reply to your comment when I usually do, it's because I was utterly swamped by posts relating to this fishbowl; the comments on the Fishbowl Open post alone went well over a hundred.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-07 07:22 pm (UTC)Serial -- again, it depends on my interest level in the subject at hand as well as the presentation.
I like the bar-toward-the-goal, but if that takes too much time from the main point of the fishbowl, then is it worth it? And my opinion on that is pretty well irrelevant as I've not been able to participate one way or another for some time.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-07 08:05 pm (UTC)That's actually the thing I'm looking to determine, by comparing people's response to the amount of work required for the ticker and the linkbacks. And it seems to pan out okay -- people respond to these things. I was suprised to find that the linkbacks already accounted for 6 people worth of traffic.
>>And my opinion on that is pretty well irrelevant as I've not been able to participate one way or another for some time.<<
You've donated before, and just did so again this month. That counts. Your opinion is useful even if your activity is determined solely by what's going on at your end of the world; but if it's influenced by things I'm doing or could be doing, that's even more relevant.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-08 01:32 am (UTC)I really like series poetry. There are some series I like better than others, but I really enjoy the linked poems.
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-08 02:23 am (UTC)That's okay.
>>I really like series poetry. There are some series I like better than others, but I really enjoy the linked poems.<<
Yeah, most people seem to have a favorite series or few. If you look on the series poetry page, you can see how some of the series have a pretty different array of prompters and donors, although there is also some overlap.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-08 02:56 am (UTC)Yes...
Date: 2011-08-08 03:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-08 02:58 am (UTC)I am also pretty much an LJ-idiot. I joined to read my friends' personal blogs and hopefully stimulate my own creativity. I don't *do* a lot on it and don't know a lot of the tricks and links and stuffs that can be done. So, again, I'm not very helpful in that arena either.
That being said, I think that you are talented and obviously this is your niche. I'm not sure how much financial gain you can actually produce out of it, and I have no clue as to why this month would be more successful (with back-to-school, I wouldn't have figured a huge financial boon). I hope it's not a fluke.
Good luck to you and happy writing.
Jake
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-08 03:36 am (UTC)Fair enough. It's okay for people to enjoy the project by reading, rather than prompting or donating as long as some of that gets done by somebodies.
>> However, poetry has never been my thing. I do know enough to know that you are good... I would just rather read a regular story than poetry.<<
That's fine. I do have a Torn World story that I plan to serialize presently.
>> I'm not sure how much financial gain you can actually produce out of it, and I have no clue as to why this month would be more successful (with back-to-school, I wouldn't have figured a huge financial boon). I hope it's not a fluke. <<
If the proceeds were used for pocket money and rolling back into the business, this would be a spectacular success. As the main cash coming into the household, it's not nearly enough to live on -- but it does pay some bills. The amount tends to vary from one month to another, but has steadily increased over the years as more people get involved and developments make the project niftier. I've had two excellent months in a row. I don't expect the next to match this one ... but then, I never expected this one to beat the record-breaking July either. So I don't really know where it'll go.
*smile* Where the wind takes us, maybe.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-08 05:47 am (UTC)1. First few questions, I only ever link to poems of yours I really like, not to the fishbowl itself. I have no idea if anyone has ever read your poems because I linked to them; nobody has said if they did or not.
2. Question 4, I would vote ten on.
3. To be honest, I don't read everything you write. I have always had difficulty reading other people's poetry. The Monster House series is the only series I consistently read. Other poems, whether I read them or not depends on my mood and various whims. I get notifications every time you post. Some poems I toss the notification away rather quickly, and later find the poem again in my friendslist and read it. Usually, if I read it I comment on it. I may have missed out on poems I would love because of the moderately random way I approach poetry.
So things like length, not really a determining factor. Sure, long poems take more effort to read (part of my mind keeps wanting to pull away no matter how good it is), but length isn't really a factor. I'm not sure what's a factor, really. Except that the Monster House series makes me laugh.
4. How much do you like historical or topical poetry that may require background research? And the question after that: I'm not even sure what you mean, so I can't answer.
One last note: I had a time in my life when I did a lot of free verse, but I gave up on it because it wasn't at all challenging to me. Obviously I do read some free verse, because I think that's all you ever write.
I think my brain is wired strangely. There's something about reading other peoples' poetry that's like playing minesweeper. Some poems will be just fine. Others will hit me with strange feelings I call "feedback," that's hard to explain. It's like pain, but doesn't actually hurt (usually). The feedback thing happens even reading things by great poets. It happens less frequently with them than with crappy wanna-be poets, but it still happens. I don't know what the criteria are for it. I just know that when I'm already feeling crappy, I tend to ignore most poems because I don't want to risk stepping on a proverbial mine. That feedback may not normally hurt, but it can make a crappy feeling worse.
Write more Monster House poems. Those I can read even when I'm in pain. :-)
Oh, also... I may be missing some obvious explanations and answers for this poll; something about its layout triggered the part of my brain that curls screaming into the fetal position at the sight of government forms, job applications, and overly-long online quizes.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-08 09:54 pm (UTC)Very few poems grab me *as poems* (though it does happen on occasion, I think most often with pieces that are elegant and structured, or have high emotional content, or abstract imagery). Generally, I like stories. Some stories take very few words to tell, and some of them want a great many. For me, short stories can sometimes benefit from poetic forms, but your longer poems, while they are often interesting stories, are not pieces where being poetry is a feature for me, and I might well prefer the same story told in prose. (I might have a different opinion on that if I were hearing them rather than reading them.)
... sadly, I think I must file this under "not helpful".
Thoughts
Date: 2011-08-08 10:13 pm (UTC)Sorry, that's the way the scale comes from the LJ poll code.
>> Also, you did not actually indicate which end of the scale was "like more" or "like less" -- I assumed ten meant more.<<
I think 10 is supposed to mean more. I'll try to remember specifying this in the future.
>>For me, short stories can sometimes benefit from poetic forms, but your longer poems, while they are often interesting stories, are not pieces where being poetry is a feature for me, and I might well prefer the same story told in prose.<<
That's okay.
>> (I might have a different opinion on that if I were hearing them rather than reading them.)<<
This is quite possible. With free verse, the poetic aspects I use are mostly alliteration and assonance, along with line breaks to indicate pauses or tension; and those pop out more in audio than visual mode.