The Wordsmith&#39;s Forge

You have now!

I'm glad you like this poem. Sometimes, the lines just need to be redrawn. I've done a lot of study and exploration into gendered magic and sexuality. It's all fine.

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Kinda ouchy, since it reminds me of the kerfluffle I was tangently involved in this last PantheaCon. Your poem, there, is a very cleaned up and hopeful version, but admittedly, cleaned up and hopeful is a good thing.

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I've heard a variety of stories about different examples of gender conflicts in Pagan events. Some end well, others badly. What I've described here may give people one idea for handling conflicts created by sometimes-useful-but-always-arbitrary categories. Other possibilities exist. Just, y'know, think before you accidentally bounce someone's identity or spirituality off a wall.

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For people who claim to be breaking with patriarchy, pagans can get so totally hung up on gender roles and assuming gender = sexuality. I'm very biased here - since I'm that rooted in wanting to see people as people, I think I miss where having male/female roles might actually be a good thing.

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>>For people who claim to be breaking with patriarchy, pagans can get so totally hung up on gender roles and assuming gender = sexuality.<<

Sometimes. Of course, if you have a big enough, diverse enough group then you can get an amazing web going by connecting all different versions of sex, sexual orientation, gender, etc. Kind of like a real pantheon. Somewhere I've got a book with a whole wedding scripted out that way, for genderqueer participants. It's awesome.

>>I'm very biased here - since I'm that rooted in wanting to see people as people, I think I miss where having male/female roles might actually be a good thing.<<

In ritual, that's one way to create polarity, balance, or dynamic interaction. Fire and water make steam power. It's a bit easier to connect with deity if the caller has more in common, rather than less. Some people relate better to a particular role -- or want to, but were dragged away from it in some other religion. As long as you think about what you're doing and its results, useful things can be accomplished. If you just do stuff because "that's the way it's done" then the results are much less effective. Much the same applies to social roles as well. It's a waste of a good mechanic to put a woman washing dishes just because she's a woman, if she's better at car maintenance.

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So basically - hey, think about why you need gender roles in your ritual. I can buy into that. During the aforementioned big kerfluffle, there was a lot of argument that a working uterus and ovaries were the vital rationale for women-only events; but I looked at that and thought, is that really so important unless you're doing something like, I dunno, a first menses or some sort of post-partum ritual?

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>>So basically - hey, think about why you need gender roles in your ritual.<<

For best results, every aspect of your ritual should be planned so that all the pieces fit together neatly and support each other in terms of energy flow, symbolism, etc. Sometimes gender roles are essential, other times they just get in the way.

>>During the aforementioned big kerfluffle, there was a lot of argument that a working uterus and ovaries were the vital rationale for women-only events<<

0_o Well that's rather rudely dismissive of maidens, crones, and women whose bits were removed for medical reasons. You'd think they would at least accept a pair of X chromosomes.

Another reason for being careful with gender dynamics in ritual is that, if you break someone's favorite devotee, sometimes the Divine Ones get annoyed and decide to beat you with a clue-by-four.

>> is that really so important unless you're doing something like, I dunno, a first menses or some sort of post-partum ritual? <<

Those are good examples of rituals with a close connection, although it's possible to be more expansive even there if one wishes. I generally design rituals to work for all the people who are expected to be there. So if I wanted to do a gendered ritual and I knew that I had transwomen in the audience, I'd build on aspects of the feminine not dependent on an actual uterus, etc.

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Well that's rather rudely dismissive of maidens, crones, and women whose bits were removed for medical reasons. You'd think they would at least accept a pair of X chromosomes.

That's what I thought, too. The Dianics sort of argued it as being about some sort of inherent womanhood, when frankly I felt they were arguing femaleness as defined on a genetic basis. To be fair, that argument may not have been thought through very completely since everyone involved no matter what side was emotional and cranky.

Another reason for being careful with gender dynamics in ritual is that, if you break someone's favorite devotee, sometimes the Divine Ones get annoyed and decide to beat you with a clue-by-four.

The big reason I was involved in the kerfluffle was that the aftereffects of arbitrary bigotry spilled into my duty station, which was the con's Hospitality Suite. Excited discussion of rituals is what we want going on in Hospitality, sobbing, painfully upset folks who got turned back at the door aren't. The people running the ritual may not have pissed off a god, but it sure hit other places in the community, which I wanted to bring up. That was back in February and I'm still very sore about that.

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>>The Dianics sort of argued it as being about some sort of inherent womanhood, when frankly I felt they were arguing femaleness as defined on a genetic basis.<<

Dianics, well, there's your problem! That tradition can be very helpful for women who have been damaged by men and/or patriarchal religions -- but it does not work and play well with others. It's best kept on a private, invitation-only basis, because in public the result is almost always exactly what you saw: discrimination causing great upset.

>>Excited discussion of rituals is what we want going on in Hospitality, sobbing, painfully upset folks who got turned back at the door aren't. <<

Yeah, that really sucks. At a public event, it's absolutely crucial to arrange programming for maximum reach. Otherwise people tend to get upset, which can sour the event and not necessarily just for them. There are events I pretty much won't go back to because multiple counts of oppression do not make for a fun trip.

>>The people running the ritual may not have pissed off a god, but it sure hit other places in the community, which I wanted to bring up. That was back in February and I'm still very sore about that.<<

Good for you. This stuff deserves discussion.

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eseme

I am a fan of one big circle, myself!

I like this, and I hope everyone joined the dance to the drumming.

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I read this and my mind drifts off to descriptions of the shamans of the Siberian Inuit, from whence we got the term 'shaman' to begin with. Many of these wore copper plates depicting both male and female sexual attributes, showing that they were neither sex and both. This gender fluidity is apparent in many shamanistic traditions around the globe. This poem fits well. :)

And what an awesome depiction of Trickster, BTW! :D

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>>This gender fluidity is apparent in many shamanistic traditions around the globe. <<

I've seen that, yes, and it's quite useful.

>>And what an awesome depiction of Trickster, BTW! :D <<

Yay! I like Trickster, in various forms.

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'Course, now I'm thinking Anansi, and then Bugs Bunny (ya know, as Brer Rabbit is related to both in different ways), and Bugs, well, he does an awful lot of cross dressing, doesn't he? XD

Edited Date: 2011-06-10 04:31 am (UTC)

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>>'Course, now I'm thinking Anansi, and then Bugs Bunny (ya know, as Brer Rabbit is related to both in different ways),<<

Sooth, and very few people know that.

>> and Bugs, well, he does an awful lot of cross dressing, doesn't he? XD <<

Oh yes. It's one of the cooler aspects of his Trickster personality. We've actually invoked Looney Tunes characters in ritual before.

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"We've actually invoked Looney Tunes characters in ritual before."

Do you any concept of how much, right now, I want to be involved in a ritual you host? :D

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*hugs* Yeah, it's coming through loud and clear.

We had a good group at that time. Over the years we've put on some really memorable events. Not much in the last year, as we're shorthanded currently, but it may pick up again someday. I like exploring different traditions, and I delve into the theory underneath, so it's not hard to design a ritual based on any other coherent set of symbols. We've done literary rituals too.

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One of my favourites was a Beltane ceremony were the Priestess and Priest re-enacted the marriage of Robin Hood and Lady Marion. THAT was a fun (especially the pyrotechnics)! I got to call the West Quarter as Friar Tuck. Hee!

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Wow. I'll have to keep that in mind for possible future reference. Yes, we've used pyrotechnics in ritual too. It's too bad that you and I live so far apart.

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One of these days, once I've finally gotten around to getting a car and have a few weeks off, I want to go on one massive road trip to visit all my web friends in North America. THAT would be awesome! :)

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That would be awesome.

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And how did I miss an opportunity to reciprocate with...

*hugs!*

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Oh, and, yeah, I'm no Joseph Campbell, but I know a tidbit or two about folklore. :)

Edited Date: 2011-06-10 06:21 am (UTC)

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Lots of people know somewhat about folklore, but not many find and remember the more obscure connections.

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Granted. I have a few university level anthro and cultural study courses under my belt. :)

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