Ukraine Resistance
May. 4th, 2025 02:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithPeace in exchange for land? For many Ukrainians, it's too painful to contemplate
KYIV, May 2 (Reuters) - Vitali Klitschko, the former heavyweight boxer who is now mayor of Kyiv, ventured last month into hazardous political territory: he delicately suggested in an interview that Ukraine might need to cede land to end its battle against Russia.
After a flood of angry online comments, he walked back his comments, saying on Facebook that "territorial concessions contradict our national interests and we must fight against their implementation until the last".
I'll just be blunt here.
* Putin doesn't keep his promises. There is no point giving him anything, ever, in hopes of getting something from him. He will just take whatever he wants.
* Other countries don't keep their promises either, like say, when they all -- including Russia -- promised to protect Ukraine if it gave up its nuclear weapons. So there's not much hope there either. Gee thanks, assholes, you made it irresponsible to urge any other countries to give up their nuclear weapons.
* If Putin keeps one inch of Ukrainian land, he wins. Remember that it is currently illegal under international law for one country to steal another's land.
* If Putin merely evades punishment and restitution for invading Ukraine, destroying their property, and murdering their citizens, he wins. All of those things are also currently illegal under international law.
* If Putin (or anyone else) gets to dictate what Ukraine can and cannot do, then it is no longer a sovereign nation but some sort of occupied or vassal state. Nobody wants to exist in that condition because vassal states are routinely abused.
* And if he gets even a little of what he wants, he will do it again. He will do it to Ukraine, he will do it to other countries, and he will keep doing it because for an addict there is no "enough" there is only MORE. For this reason, Ukraine's problems are everyone's problems.
* So there's no incentive for Ukraine to be a good victim. If they're going to die, they might as well die fighting and take more of the other bastards with them. And if that happens, other European nations will then have a stronger Russia on their doorstep and nobody caring if they get overrun.
What we really need is for other countries to unite against the Russian invasion, take back the occupied portion of Ukraine, penalize Russia, and invite Ukraine to join whichever international organizations it wants to join. Giving a bully what he wants just encourages him to do more of it. Russia is big. But it's not bigger than everyone else. That's how you defeat a bully. People aren't choosing to do that, which is also going to be everyone's problem.
KYIV, May 2 (Reuters) - Vitali Klitschko, the former heavyweight boxer who is now mayor of Kyiv, ventured last month into hazardous political territory: he delicately suggested in an interview that Ukraine might need to cede land to end its battle against Russia.
After a flood of angry online comments, he walked back his comments, saying on Facebook that "territorial concessions contradict our national interests and we must fight against their implementation until the last".
I'll just be blunt here.
* Putin doesn't keep his promises. There is no point giving him anything, ever, in hopes of getting something from him. He will just take whatever he wants.
* Other countries don't keep their promises either, like say, when they all -- including Russia -- promised to protect Ukraine if it gave up its nuclear weapons. So there's not much hope there either. Gee thanks, assholes, you made it irresponsible to urge any other countries to give up their nuclear weapons.
* If Putin keeps one inch of Ukrainian land, he wins. Remember that it is currently illegal under international law for one country to steal another's land.
* If Putin merely evades punishment and restitution for invading Ukraine, destroying their property, and murdering their citizens, he wins. All of those things are also currently illegal under international law.
* If Putin (or anyone else) gets to dictate what Ukraine can and cannot do, then it is no longer a sovereign nation but some sort of occupied or vassal state. Nobody wants to exist in that condition because vassal states are routinely abused.
* And if he gets even a little of what he wants, he will do it again. He will do it to Ukraine, he will do it to other countries, and he will keep doing it because for an addict there is no "enough" there is only MORE. For this reason, Ukraine's problems are everyone's problems.
* So there's no incentive for Ukraine to be a good victim. If they're going to die, they might as well die fighting and take more of the other bastards with them. And if that happens, other European nations will then have a stronger Russia on their doorstep and nobody caring if they get overrun.
What we really need is for other countries to unite against the Russian invasion, take back the occupied portion of Ukraine, penalize Russia, and invite Ukraine to join whichever international organizations it wants to join. Giving a bully what he wants just encourages him to do more of it. Russia is big. But it's not bigger than everyone else. That's how you defeat a bully. People aren't choosing to do that, which is also going to be everyone's problem.
(no subject)
Date: 2025-05-05 01:20 am (UTC)Australia has given Ukraine access our world leading mobile battlefield factory tech, thant can make tank and artillery parts from a few metres behind the front, our "cardboard drones" that can be used for tasks like advanced reconnisance or be simply flown down the air intake of a Russian jet at takeoff, because the base price is less than US$2000.
Northern Europe has been providing some mighty artillery systems, as have the French and Germans. Sweden, especially, for a neutral country has thrown high tech aramaments hand-over-fist at the conflict.
Of course, Russia's big advantage is a historical willingness to kill all of their youth they can conscript, sort of like a zombie army. Then replace the youth, when they run out, with early middleaged and foreign mercs, and so on.
It's dire, I fear for Ukraine, as much as anybody, but they are bringing the fight and many nations are giving them the tools bring that fight, using brains against brute force.
Russia once invaded Finland in the 19th century, using much of the sheer weight of conscript numbers they're using today. Finland beat them off because the Fins were volunteers, the Russians were conscripts from junior officers, captains and lieutenants down. It was a hard fight, but the Fins are very proud of that.
My eldest is a political scientist, living and working in Finland. Based on her observations, I'm inclined to think Putin needed to have won this war by now and that's why Trump is so keen to push the giving up land idea. Nato's European menbers will consider it, but I doubt they'll back it in the end. Putin's got his gun off to prove a point about "historical territory" too many times. Capitulating in Ukraine would leade to a domino of territorial incursions by Russia.
Thoughts
Date: 2025-05-05 05:37 pm (UTC)Oh, people have sent supplies, and that hes helped avoid the instant takeover that Putin would have liked. But it's not enough to win the war. They need to put enough boots on the ground to drive out the Russian army, and nobody is willing to do that. Now they're getting tired of spending money to support Ukraine.
>>Of course, Russia's big advantage is a historical willingness to kill all of their youth they can conscript, sort of like a zombie army. <<
Russia has always had more bodies to throw into the meat grinder, and a complete willingness to do so. Without other countries sending soldiers, Ukraine simply doesn't have enough people to beat Russia. All they can do is lose slower.
>>Capitulating in Ukraine would leade to a domino of territorial incursions by Russia.<<
No shit. If he keeps any land, then he wins and he'll keep doing it. The problem is that other countries simply aren't willing to do what it takes to push him out. He can beat them by sheer exhaustion. They can't keep supporting a foreign war forever, it's unpopular, and too many people don't recognize this situation for the very serious global threat that it is.
(no subject)
Date: 2025-05-05 03:29 am (UTC)Yes ...
Date: 2025-05-05 03:36 am (UTC)Of course, Ukraine doesn't want to do any of this. The problem is other people trying to pin them down so Russia can fuck them over.