ysabetwordsmith | Green Comet

From:

siliconshaman

Your guess is accurate, copper.

Lets hope it's not an omen or something... and that 2023 is the combo breaker for the current run of years.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

A number of things can burn green, but copper is common and seemed a logical extrapolation for this case. It's widely used in fireworks for green to blue colors. I couldn't pin down an article though.

>>Lets hope it's not an omen or something... and that 2023 is the combo breaker for the current run of years.<<

At least it's not red.

But the timing snags my attention. I've been trying to remember if I've seen the thing before, but can't quite put my finger on it. Long about 50,000 years ago, Denisovans were using sewing needles and modern humans were colonizing Australia.

From:

siliconshaman

Ruh-Roh Shaggy... isn't that right about the time all the other hominid species went extinct?

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Closest were Neanderthals, who died out (or were absorbed) around 40,000 years ago; Homo erectus (30,000 years ago); and Denisovans (maybe 14,500 years ago) whose descendants live on in Tibetans and a few other groups.

Climate change may have been a major factor in several extinctions. Homo sapiens was another.

Edited Date: 2023-01-07 09:37 am (UTC)

From:

see_also_friend

>>...and Denisovans (maybe 14,500 years ago) whose descendants live on in Tibetans and a few other groups.<<

I'd suggest looking at indigenous peoples who live in the Andes mountains. I read something once that suggested childbirth at high altitudes was easier for them than most of the rest of us. But I don't recalla scientific study attached to the source...

...anyway, I don't think it is too much of a stretch that some of the folks crossing the Beiring Strait from Asia might have shared Denisovan DNA.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Oh now that's brilliant. Easy childbirth at altitude is a hallmark of the upland Tibetans, who likely got it from the Denisovans. I think that's a credible argument that they are an identifiable subspecies of Homo sapiens (that is, with distinctive morphological and habitat differences, but capable of fertile crossbreeding).

So any other group with the same trait is worth checking to see if it has the same source. Little research is done in the global south, so people may not have explored that yet.

From:

see_also_friend

>>Oh now that's brilliant.<<

Thanks!

>>...easy childbirth at altitude is a hallmark of the upland Tibetans, who likely got it from the Denisovans. <<

Denisovans were (and Tibetans are) from the eastern-ish part of Asia, and the ancestors of the people who first came to the Americas would have been from that sort of area.

>>So any other group with the same trait is worth checking to see if it has the same source.<<

Check for peoples who were traditionally living in mountains. The fact that it would be involving both indigenous folks and women would make finding data difficult...maybe look for midwifery research or papers? Something like Doctors Without Borders might have records listing common childbirth complications. Come to think of it, sorting by country would allow for analysis by population, altitude, per capita wealth...

From:

ysabetwordsmith

The markers actually pop right out of standard perinatal records if you know what to look for.

Altitude-adapted humans (including Denisovan-descendants):
* average rate of conception
* average rate of miscarriage and stillbirth
* low rate of maternal difficulties with blood flow or breathing
* slightly lower birthweight babies that are quite healthy

Lowland humans:
* lower rate of conception at altitude
* higher rate of miscarriage and stillbirth at altitude
* high rate of maternal difficulties with blood flow or breathing
* notably lower birthweight babies often with other problems

Everybody keeping records tracks birthweight and most track health issues present at birth. Many places publish their birth rate as part of population statistics. Finding miscarriage rates requires digging a bit deeper.

From:

see_also_friend

That is convenient. I would still suggest cross-referencing with altitude (of dwelling and delivery, if possible) and economic resources.

Maybe also check records of altitude sickness. ...hmm, is there a sort of reverse altitude sickness if someone with Denisovan genetics is at sea level?

I know that athletes can use varying-altitude training to affect performance, but to my knowledge most of them are lowland humans to begin with...

If doing an in-depth study of a particular group, ask the local midwives or healers for their experiences, too.

I'm guessing the differences have something to do with how the body processes neccesary resources (in this case oxygen). A secondary guess would be pressure, though I am unsure if atmospheric pressure changes significantly enough to cause even a mild sort of decompression effect.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

I know one feature is that the Denisovan variant has less hemoglobin, so it doesn't start clogging at altitude.

From:

see_also_friend

A quick internet search suggests low hemoglobin correlates with kidney and liver disease, as well as anemia. It might be possible to search for clusters of those issues, or if doing a survey, to include them as a question about family health history.

I suspect the anemia, at least, would require a slightly different diet, too - meat or leafy greens. Fish maybe? Not sure bout the organ issues, but I am sure there are dietary gimmicks that would help with them as well.

Hmmm, if low clogging at altitude is a feature, might something like hemophilia occur at lower altitude?

From:

see_also_friend

I don't know about extinctions, but that was long enough ago that a lot of calamities wouldn't have survived in the records. For example, if there were civilizations that were destroyed, or a plague, or whatever.

What might have survived:

- I think there are a handful of oral traditions that go back that far (like some of the Aboriginal Australian groups)

- Sometimes historical events get remembered as mythology - the Bering Strait crossing remembered as crossing through a cave from another world, King Aurthur either as a record of a volcanic eruption or the fall of Rome, Noah's flood/the Garden of Eden as records of a Mesoamerican natural disaster or climate crisis.

Big things get recorded in geology - the iridium layer that killed the dinosaurs, the lake Toba eruption that almost killed us, etc.

$mdlbear: blue fractal bear with text "since 2002" (Default)$

From:

mdlbear

This article on space.com says that the color is probably due to Diatomic carbon -- two carbon atoms bonded together.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Fascinating. I couldn't find a reference about cause of color when I looked.

I wish we could get a sample of that thing. We need to have a warehouse of comet-chaser rockets that we can send up when needed.