Politics and Violence in America
Jul. 27th, 2022 02:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithUnlike the researchers, I am not particularly surprised by these results. Disgusted, yes; surprised, no.
Slightly more than two-thirds of more than 8,600 survey respondents perceive “a serious threat to our democracy,”
Well, no. That's because America ISN'T a democracy. It is either a plutocracy or an oligarchy, depending whether you care more that the people ruling it are all rich or very few. This is statistically proven fact.
and 51.1% believe that “in the next several years, there will be a civil war in the United States.”
It wouldn't surprise me. I don't think it's guaranteed. One reason is because I'm not sure the country really has enough resources for it, especially in light of climate disasters. Another is the critical shortage of competence. Could they throw a lot of exciting riots and trash the place? Sure. Organize the outrage into a genuine war with specific sides and cohesive opposed agendas? I doubt it. Wars are a lot of work. You need truly huge numbers of people who feel like they have nothing to lose in order to get a grassroots war.
42.4% said having a “strong leader” is more important than “having a democracy.”
That's probably because America hasn't had a democracy in a while. Also, following someone you like is generally easier than thinking for yourself. A lot of people are just fucking tired.
41.2% said they believe “native-born white people are being replaced by immigrants.”
Cry me a river, bitches. Native people were replaced BY white people, mostly through genocide. But I would bet the current shift is more undocumented refugees than the trickle of legal immigrants. It doesn't help that a wrecked economy makes it unfeasible for many people to have children. Do I care about the racial balance of America? Not really, no. White people fucked it up. I'm not sad if they are a shrinking majority.
18.7% said they agree strongly or very strongly with the idea that violence or force are needed to protect democracy “when elected leaders will not.”
"If you want something done right, do it yourself" is pretty standard human thought. The problem is when people don't agree on what should be done, and get into fights over that.
Just under 43% of survey respondents agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly with this statement: “Our American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”
The America that I found tolerable is long gone. I do not imagine that violence would get it back. I'm also just not terribly exercised about human brawling. Their repeated failure at civilization is not news.
Nearly 25% agreed that use of force is sometimes, usually or always justified “to stop an election from being stolen.”
Frankly if an election is not reliable, force won't help. What you need is outside supervision by a more civilized nation to ensure that it is reliable. I haven't seen anyone suggest this -- despite the fact that America used to do it for other nations struggling to establish or maintain democracy. Not like it's easy, sometimes help is a good thing.
And just over 25% agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly that “true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country.”
That might work if the problem was coming from outside. Coming from inside, all it'll do is tear the country apart. *shrug* But people can do that if they choose to. It's a common expression of political disagreement. Stupid, but common.
Almost 23% agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly with this statement: “The government, media and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.”
No, it's run by ... hmm ... a bunch of rich psychos who probably don't worship Satan but behave in ways that Biblical Satan would probably love and actual Satanists find appalling, and who probably do contain some but not all child abusers and human traffickers, and certainly contain those who think that owning and mistreating other human beings is perfectly fine. A difference only in the details, really. I agree that assholes are in charge.
“The Far Right has been seeding the soil to take and keep political power through ‘justified’ violence — claims of stolen elections, pedophilia, promoting militias and folks arming themselves to the teeth and then telling them that their enemies are coming to try to disarm them from their ‘God-given rights.’
Do you really want these nutjobs to be the only ones with guns? Aside from the police and military, who are also increasingly nutjobs happy to murder American citizens? I'm not keen on that. And do you imagine there's any feasible way to get the guns away from these people? That doesn't seem likely. Of course it's possible they would all peacefully obey a new gun control law ordering them to turn in all their weapons. It just seems like a long shot.
making the argument that men with guns make the rules.
Well yes, that is true. Or whatever other power. Ask Ukraine how they feel about giving up nuclear weapons since other nations -- including Russia -- promised to respect and protect their country if they gave those up. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be overrun now if they had nukes. Pecker would've picked a softer target.
“Just remember that one AR-15 held back 400 police officers in Uvalde,” Horwitz said of the recent Texas school massacre, warning that 10 people working together with such firepower could wreak devastation we haven’t yet imagined.
There's nothing unimaginable about it. You count the number of bullets and the number of potential targets. If the bullets match or exceed the targets, then the shooter(s) has a reasonable chance of eliminating all targets. Calculating how many people could be killed by ramming a crowd with a car is a lot more complicated. Or poisoning the water supply ... oh wait, that'd be redundant.
Remember, nutjobs don't stop being nutjobs just because you've made one tool harder to get. They will figure out some other way to cause trouble. Some of the available ways are worse than guns. Perhaps the nutjobs will not think of these; after all, most of them are stupid and lazy. But there are a lot of them. Someone is likely to find the worse ideas. And don't forget 3D printed guns, although honestly, idiots are welcome to blow their hands off if that's their choice.
we should recognize that some who feel alienated have legitimate grievances about government failures and address them.
Like say, all the members of all the disadvantaged groups, of which women alone are 51% of the population. Good luck getting the rich white men to budge on that. They're digging that hole deeper like there's oil down there.
We need a better mental health care system.
Sure. We could start with emotional first aid training for anyone who wants it, which costs little or nothing. We could make mental care free and readily available. We could ban all the ways that people take advantage of anyone who gets therapy for anything. We could reorganize how mental issues are approached, rather than letting drug companies define "mental illnesses" that can't be backed by empirical testing. I don't think any of that is very likely, because America hates people with mental issues and thinks they deserve to suffer. But I will keep teaching people about EFA. Listening to a freaking-out person is more likely to solve problems than beating them, chaining them, jailing them, or shooting at them.
So, America is a garbage fire. It's not new, it's not news. Having some specific numbers is useful to know. I'm not sure it'll lead to a solution, but then it's hard to find a solution if you don't know what is actually on fire. Maybe somebody will think of something. Have fun convincing anyone to go along with a solution though. People seem real attached to choosing mayhem.
Slightly more than two-thirds of more than 8,600 survey respondents perceive “a serious threat to our democracy,”
Well, no. That's because America ISN'T a democracy. It is either a plutocracy or an oligarchy, depending whether you care more that the people ruling it are all rich or very few. This is statistically proven fact.
and 51.1% believe that “in the next several years, there will be a civil war in the United States.”
It wouldn't surprise me. I don't think it's guaranteed. One reason is because I'm not sure the country really has enough resources for it, especially in light of climate disasters. Another is the critical shortage of competence. Could they throw a lot of exciting riots and trash the place? Sure. Organize the outrage into a genuine war with specific sides and cohesive opposed agendas? I doubt it. Wars are a lot of work. You need truly huge numbers of people who feel like they have nothing to lose in order to get a grassroots war.
42.4% said having a “strong leader” is more important than “having a democracy.”
That's probably because America hasn't had a democracy in a while. Also, following someone you like is generally easier than thinking for yourself. A lot of people are just fucking tired.
41.2% said they believe “native-born white people are being replaced by immigrants.”
Cry me a river, bitches. Native people were replaced BY white people, mostly through genocide. But I would bet the current shift is more undocumented refugees than the trickle of legal immigrants. It doesn't help that a wrecked economy makes it unfeasible for many people to have children. Do I care about the racial balance of America? Not really, no. White people fucked it up. I'm not sad if they are a shrinking majority.
18.7% said they agree strongly or very strongly with the idea that violence or force are needed to protect democracy “when elected leaders will not.”
"If you want something done right, do it yourself" is pretty standard human thought. The problem is when people don't agree on what should be done, and get into fights over that.
Just under 43% of survey respondents agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly with this statement: “Our American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”
The America that I found tolerable is long gone. I do not imagine that violence would get it back. I'm also just not terribly exercised about human brawling. Their repeated failure at civilization is not news.
Nearly 25% agreed that use of force is sometimes, usually or always justified “to stop an election from being stolen.”
Frankly if an election is not reliable, force won't help. What you need is outside supervision by a more civilized nation to ensure that it is reliable. I haven't seen anyone suggest this -- despite the fact that America used to do it for other nations struggling to establish or maintain democracy. Not like it's easy, sometimes help is a good thing.
And just over 25% agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly that “true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country.”
That might work if the problem was coming from outside. Coming from inside, all it'll do is tear the country apart. *shrug* But people can do that if they choose to. It's a common expression of political disagreement. Stupid, but common.
Almost 23% agreed somewhat, strongly or very strongly with this statement: “The government, media and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.”
No, it's run by ... hmm ... a bunch of rich psychos who probably don't worship Satan but behave in ways that Biblical Satan would probably love and actual Satanists find appalling, and who probably do contain some but not all child abusers and human traffickers, and certainly contain those who think that owning and mistreating other human beings is perfectly fine. A difference only in the details, really. I agree that assholes are in charge.
“The Far Right has been seeding the soil to take and keep political power through ‘justified’ violence — claims of stolen elections, pedophilia, promoting militias and folks arming themselves to the teeth and then telling them that their enemies are coming to try to disarm them from their ‘God-given rights.’
Do you really want these nutjobs to be the only ones with guns? Aside from the police and military, who are also increasingly nutjobs happy to murder American citizens? I'm not keen on that. And do you imagine there's any feasible way to get the guns away from these people? That doesn't seem likely. Of course it's possible they would all peacefully obey a new gun control law ordering them to turn in all their weapons. It just seems like a long shot.
making the argument that men with guns make the rules.
Well yes, that is true. Or whatever other power. Ask Ukraine how they feel about giving up nuclear weapons since other nations -- including Russia -- promised to respect and protect their country if they gave those up. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be overrun now if they had nukes. Pecker would've picked a softer target.
“Just remember that one AR-15 held back 400 police officers in Uvalde,” Horwitz said of the recent Texas school massacre, warning that 10 people working together with such firepower could wreak devastation we haven’t yet imagined.
There's nothing unimaginable about it. You count the number of bullets and the number of potential targets. If the bullets match or exceed the targets, then the shooter(s) has a reasonable chance of eliminating all targets. Calculating how many people could be killed by ramming a crowd with a car is a lot more complicated. Or poisoning the water supply ... oh wait, that'd be redundant.
Remember, nutjobs don't stop being nutjobs just because you've made one tool harder to get. They will figure out some other way to cause trouble. Some of the available ways are worse than guns. Perhaps the nutjobs will not think of these; after all, most of them are stupid and lazy. But there are a lot of them. Someone is likely to find the worse ideas. And don't forget 3D printed guns, although honestly, idiots are welcome to blow their hands off if that's their choice.
we should recognize that some who feel alienated have legitimate grievances about government failures and address them.
Like say, all the members of all the disadvantaged groups, of which women alone are 51% of the population. Good luck getting the rich white men to budge on that. They're digging that hole deeper like there's oil down there.
We need a better mental health care system.
Sure. We could start with emotional first aid training for anyone who wants it, which costs little or nothing. We could make mental care free and readily available. We could ban all the ways that people take advantage of anyone who gets therapy for anything. We could reorganize how mental issues are approached, rather than letting drug companies define "mental illnesses" that can't be backed by empirical testing. I don't think any of that is very likely, because America hates people with mental issues and thinks they deserve to suffer. But I will keep teaching people about EFA. Listening to a freaking-out person is more likely to solve problems than beating them, chaining them, jailing them, or shooting at them.
So, America is a garbage fire. It's not new, it's not news. Having some specific numbers is useful to know. I'm not sure it'll lead to a solution, but then it's hard to find a solution if you don't know what is actually on fire. Maybe somebody will think of something. Have fun convincing anyone to go along with a solution though. People seem real attached to choosing mayhem.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 11:49 am (UTC)I hate the fact that I'm warring with my human-inbred 'self' on this, because the more my nonhuman shit comes through the more jaded I seem to be, and I hate being jaded. I feel like it makes me less compassionate, and I *really* don't wanna be that person, y'know?
But having found out about the Doctrine of Dicovery (Look it up: warning, it may well piss you right the fuck off) I'm not surprised about a lot of the 'take by violence' things.
It makes me sad, though. Isuppose this is what happens when the watchers, so to speak, don't have anything/one to watch *them*.
-T~
(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 02:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 07:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 07:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 11:10 pm (UTC)Thoughts
Date: 2022-07-27 07:58 pm (UTC)Some people feel that way, though -- once they have murdered the original owners and taken the territory, it should be theirs forever, and nobody else has the right to take it from them. But that isn't how the world works.
The end does not justify the means; the means determine the end. A land taken by violence will always be wracked by violence as people try to wrest pieces of it from each other. The only way to stop that is for people to choose a different path.
America suffers from racism because it was made out of racism. That's never going away until people decide that race isn't important anymore.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-27 07:52 pm (UTC)And as for this?
What you need is outside supervision by a more civilized nation to ensure that it is reliable. I haven't seen anyone suggest this -- despite the fact that America used to do it for other nations struggling to establish or maintain democracy. Not like it's easy, sometimes help is a good thing.
Canada is being targeted for similar "takeover" in part to prevent us from becoming the "responsible adults" who might be put in charge of providing that help, I suspect.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-07-28 12:16 am (UTC)No, it's run by ... hmm ... a bunch of rich psychos who probably don't worship Satan but behave in ways that Biblical Satan would probably love and actual Satanists find appalling, and who probably do contain some but not all child abusers and human traffickers, and certainly contain those who think that owning and mistreating other human beings is perfectly fine. A difference only in the details, really. I agree that assholes are in charge.
This particular trope is code for "Jews." Who have for a long time been scapegoated for the crimes of the actual ruling class.
Hmm ...
Date: 2022-07-28 12:42 am (UTC)Re: Hmm ...
Date: 2022-07-28 01:30 am (UTC)Besides, the Jews are off creating their own mayhem in Israel.
... What?
Re: Hmm ...
Date: 2022-07-28 06:29 pm (UTC)I know with Christianity [which I'm more familiar with, because standing in it], not too many folks tend to use their religion as an explanation for liberal politics. "My faith says you can't teach that in school," yeah. "My faith says you have to respect everyone's pronouns," not one I've heard so far - but I wonder how they'd react, bwahahaha!
Also, just because Israel is being [waves hands around] doesn't make all Jews, everywhere responsible for it. No more than all Americans, everywhere are responsible for whatever obnoxious thing America is doing this week.
Although I will believe that someone would use different wording to.../disapprove/ of liberals vs non-Christian religions (of all sorts).