Self-Awareness Question: Moving

[ysabetwordsmith]

Folks have mentioned an interest in questions and conversations that make them think. So I've decided to offer more of those. This is the current list on self-awareness.

13. Would you move to another country?

In theory, yes; in practice, no.  I have nothing against it in principle, but international moves are fubar now and other places sensibly do not want Americans unless they come with maximum-value credentials.  Also I'm firmly attached to my home and other people here.

Comments

[heron61]

My partners and I have talked vaguely about moving to Canada if the US got too bad ever since Shrub was re-elected. However, plans got a whole lot more serious after the 2016 election. We would have definitely left if Republicans still controlled the House and we're talking about moving if 45 wins in November. It helps that one of my partners has the sort of job that's in demand (accountant), and the other's father was born in Canada, giving them automatic dual citizenship whenever they want to apply for it. I've got neither advantage, which means I'll need to legally marry one or the other if we need to move, an idea I deeply object to (until polyamorous marriages are legally recognized, I'm not getting legally married if I can avoid it), but I like the idea of living in a fascist state notably less, and that's what 45 getting re-elected means.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>However, plans got a whole lot more serious after the 2016 election.<<

I don't blame you. Also Canada is much better positioned for global warming.

>> It helps that one of my partners has the sort of job that's in demand (accountant), and the other's father was born in Canada, giving them automatic dual citizenship whenever they want to apply for it. <<

That's good.

>> I've got neither advantage, which means I'll need to legally marry one or the other if we need to move, an idea I deeply object to (until polyamorous marriages are legally recognized, I'm not getting legally married if I can avoid it), but I like the idea of living in a fascist state notably less, and that's what 45 getting re-elected means.<<

That's an ugly ethical choice. :( I hope it doesn't come to that. The Orange Garbage Fire has lost some support, but its avid fans are all the more mobilized. It seems that many people just don't see that kind of behavior as wrong. They figure he's doing what they hired him for. >_

[siliconshaman]

I've been considering it since the 80's... first it was the possibility of nuclear war [there is no-where in Britain that would be safe] and now it's Climate change and the increasingly authoritarian response to the social disruption it's causing.

You don't need to be a seer to see where we are heading, and I want no part of it. The three options are accept it, fight it, or leave. I can't countenance tacitly supporting a authoritarian fascist regime [however terribly British it might be.] by staying silent, I don't fancy my chances if it came to a fight, and I would if there was no other option... so that means leaving while it's possible.

Except currently, while it's technically possible, it's not feasible personally. So, I'm working towards it. Gotta put those bottom rungs in place first.

Of course, the most vexing question is.. where?
The short list is New Zealand, Canada and Iceland.. in that order.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I wish you luck escaping.

New Zealand is poorly equipped to survive climate change, as are all the small-island nations. They have a ruinous housing shortage too. :/

Canada is the best placed to survive climate change. Size is an advantage.

However, Iceland is also promising in that regard and has been largely overlooked. Everyone will eventually figure out that Canada is desirable and may try to overrun it. Iceland, probably not.

Re: Well ...

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't Iceland have a problem with genetic diversity at the moment? An immigration-friendly program could be useful...

And I suspect there are people in many parts of the world that would cheerfuly move to a friendly Iceland over staying where they are.

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

There are millions of people who would move to a friendly anywhere over whatever shithole they're currently in.

The problem is that most of the decent places to live do not want refugees, especially refugees very different from the natives. This is a severe problem given the massive number of refugees -- which is about to get a great deal larger as climate change forecloses more and more territory.

How much of Australia has to burn, how often, before it becomes effectively uninhabitable? How often do coastal cities have to flood before living in them becomes untenable? We are about to find out.

Re: Well ...

[technoshaman]

I hope, if Oathbreaker somehow appoints himself Chancellor, that I'll be getting out... or probably in any event in five years or so. The hell that was the end of last year's silver lining is that that's now possible in very real terms. It may well be life-altering in terms of what I end up doing with myself once I get there... but I'm more or less okay with that.

And "there" is TBD and I'm not putting the list up on anything public...

[siberian_skys]

I've thought about it, but I don't have the means nor would my Mother ever leave. I can't even get her to move states. Canada remains a fantasy.

[arlie]

I did, but in what most posters here would consider the wrong direction. I came to the US for economic opportunity.

Would I go back to Canada? Well, I consider it every time the US government notably worsens. But Canada has been going down the same path; it's merely behind the US by a decade or two. And I'm nearing retirement age. So I'll probably stay in the US, in my paid off house, unless being in the US becomes significantly more dangerous for people like me.

[redsixwing]

Well, I actually tried after 2016, and it was... rather disastrous. (I'm right where I started and every time I think I've picked up all the pieces, stray ones spork me in the heart.)

Which is to say: it's so, so not feasible. But yeah, I would.

In theory, yes.

[curiosity]

.... if I won the lottery. Otherwise I've got to grow where I'm planted.

[fuzzyred]

I've never really thought about moving countries, though I definitely would like to travel. I think I might also like somewhere a little more secluded and also mountainous, but my current country has places like that. I think I'm too attached to my family to really consider moving anywhere though.

And I would be delighted to have all of you in Canada with me, though I'm not certain our politicians are any better. I don't like our federal government and my provincial one sounds far to close to the Brit's torries for comfort, so I guess I better get on making sure we don't ruin our country with bad political choices. I like my country, I'd like it to not devolve into a miserable place to live.

Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Working to make your country a better place is a worthy goal.

[pronker]

I've considered it - Panama? What sounds especially wild is moving to a cruise ship if Spouse dies before I do, and seeing the world. I've love to drive the boat for a while, even if only ten minutes. A downside is that I get carsick easily so dealing with that is more feasible than getting seasick. :0 ~~~~ (equals puke)

[krait]

If money were no object, i.e. I could keep my current house and pay someone to live in it with my cats? (Or if my cats were no longer an issue, and I could mothball the house?) Yes, I'd move abroad. Actually, I'd probably buy several houses and divide up my time among them, though on a several-years basis rather than every-few-months snowbirding. Two years here, then two years in Germany, then two years in...

[mama_kestrel]

I would. I have the means to. If Velveeta Voldemort wins another term I and my family may have to, because it will not be safe to be well educated, to be upper middle class, to be Jewish. But I don't want it to come to that. Uprooting my mom would, I suspect, shake what mental stability she has left. I like my house, and neighbors, and neighborhood.

If we do go? First choice is Canada. Not sure what an American lawyer can do in Canada, but if push comes to shove I can always open a bakery. (Yes, I'm good enough for that.)

I thought about Israel - I have rights under the Law of the Return - but the way things in that part of the world are going that sounds like a frying pan to fire type option.

Iceland is a possibility. So is Ireland. Wherever we choose, I'm taking the whole family. Nobody's getting left behind.

[technoshaman]

If you go someplace with good social medicine, you should be able to get help with Mom... I know someone who used to work in that very profession. They would go in, help you do the hard parts, and somewhere between two and six hours later get to go _home_... which saved both your sanity and theirs. (Come to think of it, I know someone who does that here, now, in the States... but _that_ don't come cheap. In Britain it used to be free from NHS. G-ds only know what Jeremy Hunt has done to it now...)