Marine Mammals and Pesticides

[ysabetwordsmith]

 Marine mammals lack a protein that protects terrestrial mammals from organophosphate pesticides.  (They may or may not have a different type of protection.)  I immediately wonder if this has anything to do with problems such as beaching and skin deformities.  Reports from previous studies point to a need to study how marine mammals respond during spikes of organophosphate runoff.

Comments

[cmcmck]

And talking of weedkillers, I follow the Monsanto case with deep interest.

We've said for years in Europe that these guys are lying scum and here's the proof!

Farmers here have an anti Monsanto organisation in place and have had for years.

[neotoma]

What's interesting to me is that it's all marine mammals, that are from separate evolutionary lines.

Something about being a marine mammal is selecting for the loss of this protein. Because whales (closely related to ruminants), manatees (related to elephants), and seals (related to wolves, bears, and cats) all lost it, and that's too weird not to bear further investigation.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

The alternative is that something is insisting that land mammals keep the protein. Clearly something is Very Different between land living and marine living. This has use in speculative fiction.

[neotoma]

Well, yes, there's some pressure selecting for the protein in land mammals.

But there's some pressure selecting against the protein in marine mammals -- if there wasn't selection pressure either way, you'd expect the protein to be lost randomly in the different clades of marine mammals, because random genetic drift is what happens when a gene isn't acted on by selection.

That the gene for the protein is missing for all marine mammals suggests that it was in some way detrimental enough to marine mammal reproduction that it was sifted out of the gene pool; the fact that it is missing across groups that didn't evolve from the same land mammals is really interesting.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

It'll be interesting to see what they tease out. Thanks, btw for improving my science knowledge; I run mostly on high school biology and bachelor anthropology.

I think this points out that wetlands are not optional. Considering that humans are rather on a bender with chemicals livers need to be frequent and sturdy. (The cattail equivalent to Tony Stark's...)

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Thanks, btw for improving my science knowledge; I run mostly on high school biology and bachelor anthropology. <<

You're welcome!

I took science classes into college, of which the most new material came from the meteorology class taught by a real live weatherman. Since then, I've continued exploring. I don't need the math to see how quantum physics connects with magic and spirituality, I just need verbal descriptions. And as much as the world has gone downhill in many ways, actually finding exoplanets is an awesome modern thing.

>> I think this points out that wetlands are not optional. Considering that humans are rather on a bender with chemicals livers need to be frequent and sturdy. (The cattail equivalent to Tony Stark's...) <<

Exactly. Louisiana obliterated as much of its wetlands as it could and is now washing away into the ocean. Florida did and is now slowly subsiding into saltwater. Those are extreme examples, but you get the idea.

If you want to get fancy with filtration, water gardeners and permaculturists have been making swamp filters for many years. The idea is to create a zigzag so the water flows through a lot of substrate and plant roots. In other words, it should look like the kind of meandering river that flows through a wild wetland.

Re: Thoughts

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I've got some other sorts of science, like geology.

But as I say about concentrated feed operations, "Shit isn't supposed to be the problem, it's supposed to be the (composted) solution." to soil fertility. It however shouldn't be in solution in the aquifer. That's the problem. In the wells, in the lakes, on the beaches...

People don't like complicated. Complicated is the only way this all holds together.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

Shit also shouldn't be left in large open-air lagoons pullulating with vermin.

Honestly, if you wanted to create a pandemic, it would be hard to devise a better way than factory farms.

Re: Thoughts

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Battlefield. But as far as short-sighted economical, yeah, it's very good at pandemic.

I'm not sure what the idea manure pile size is, but it's capable of drying down.

And, that's herbivore, swine ordure is not the same thing. That's nightsoil of another gut.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Battlefield. But as far as short-sighted economical, yeah, it's very good at pandemic. <<

Battlefields are good at spreading current germs. So are slums. But to make and spread new ones, you need large amounts of animals crammed together, interacting with humans somehow.

I'm sure future humans, if there are any, will look back on this with the same reaction we have to killing cats during the Black Plague: "What the fuck were you thinking?!"

>> I'm not sure what the idea manure pile size is, but it's capable of drying down.<<

A few cubic yards.

It's a lot easier to process solid waste if you separate it from liquid waste. Both are quite valuable. People just can't be bothered to do it.

Also ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Oh, shit. Did anyone think to check freshwater aquatic mammals? If it's a diving thing, they're probably not affected because they don't go as deep; if it's a salt thing, they're almost certainly safe. But it could be something else, and should be checked.

Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

It gets better: the more evolved sea animals (like whales) lost it longer ago than the less evolved ones (like seals). That supports the hypothesis that losing it constitutes an adaptation. The article suggested it might have something to do with diving.

Re: Yes ...

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Is it dealing with the bends? I don't know how long seals can hold a breath, or for that matter how long whales can.

Are manatees brackish water?

Re: Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Is it dealing with the bends? <<

That was suggested.

>> I don't know how long seals can hold a breath, or for that matter how long whales can.<<

If I remember right, the maximum is around 90 minutes for a sperm whale.

>> Are manatees brackish water? <<

Brackish and shallow come to that, so it probably isn't diving after all. Might be something to do with salt metabolism. Then again, it could be something needed to keep the skin intact under water most or all the time.

Hmm, I wonder if anyone has checked platypuses.

Re: Yes ...

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

If platypuses don't have it, and it can be proven that they had had it, that would be rather significant.

That's well over on the chart.

Has anyone thought to check on the freshwater dolphins?

Re: Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I haven't seen a reference to freshwater dolphins. Good idea!