ysabetwordsmith | Only in Local-America

From:

technoshaman

Sadly, that's not the only hospital I know with The Scottish Restaurant in-house. :(

From:

ysabetwordsmith

I bet they'd quit if all their patients verbally boycotted every word of advice they gave on weight or food. "I'm sorry, the McDonald's in your building invalidates everything you say about my size and diet. I only accept advice from people who practice what they preach."

From:

technoshaman

I'll take that action, because "healthcare" in America is controlled by money, and patients have none, and MacAbuseTheirEmployees has a lot.

What we have to do here is wag the dog, and force the Arches to treat both employees and customers right.

That and take the huge profit motive out of healthcare. But that requires the dreaded 's' word...

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> I'll take that action, because "healthcare" in America is controlled by money, and patients have none, and MacAbuseTheirEmployees has a lot. <<

Painfully true. Honestly, it's gotten to where I bounce most advice for corruption, and people become verbally violent when I refuse. But I'd rather go without health care than LET them abuse me.

>> What we have to do here is wag the dog, and force the Arches to treat both employees and customers right. <<

If only.

>> That and take the huge profit motive out of healthcare. But that requires the dreaded 's' word... <<

Binary thought error. Revert to base premise.

People need health care, and health care needs resources. But there are many ways to organize that. Various people have tried for-profit, government, and non-profit modes; paid for by individuals, businesses, insurance, the government, fundraising, and sundry other methods. For-profit does the best at controlling prices if that's their goal, but they do it by shortchanging customers: an inherent conflict of interest. Government has the best scope and influence, but easily strays into violation of human rights. Non-profit offers the best care and personal choice, but struggles to meet the demand levels. And every time you introduce any third party -- employer, insurance, government -- then it directly and indirectly undermines the quality of care and people's willingness to admit they need help at all.

The biggest problems with socialized medicine are that it merges government and health care such that people who distrust either one now avoid their union, and it tends to create a monopoly or near-monopoly such that providers and clients who find it doesn't meet their needs are usually screwed for lack of alternatives. What I'd really like to see is non-profit health care boosted to a larger scale and supported well enough that people could access it reliably. There are a few of these, and they often work great, but there just aren't enough.

From:

technoshaman

Okay. I hear what you're saying, but I'm gonna disagree partially, and I think (ironically?) our Constitution's preamble has the key: "provide for the common Defence, and promote the general Welfare." *Promote*, not *provide*.

It is totally part of the social contract of any functioning community that one takes care of one's own. HOWEVER. When you get something with freakin' 300 MILLION people in it, you know as well as I do that you can't do one size fits all.

So.

We say, "Okay, medicine must be non-profit. We will accredit non-profit orgs to do medicine, and we will accredit schools to teach medicine, and we will encourage people to become doctors and nurses and techs and such like, but there will always be multiples of each, and people can choose who they go to.... but we're not doing medicine *directly*."

Because some things - fire departments, roads, schools, *medicine*... simply *won't get done* if you leave it to volunteers. But you're right, a lot of people don't trust the gooberment, and for good reason.

.... which is why we need to re-make the whole damn thing in the first place, but that's kinda outta scope here...

To go all the way back to the original culprit, Mickey Da'esh? I think that's gonna solve itself. The whole $15 minimum wage thing has been in place for a while, and it's actually *doing some good*, measurably, right here in Puget City... that's gonna take off. And when people can actually afford to pay for stuff, and they're not turning over jobs like hotcakes, then they'll have room left in their profit structure to actually serve decent food. (They've actually been starting to do it here in Salishia! they're having to compete on *quality*, because folks can afford to go elsewhere...)

It's a long damn road. But Confucius say longest journey start with single step... and we're already a couple hundred yards in.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> "provide for the common Defence, and promote the general Welfare." *Promote*, not *provide*.

It is totally part of the social contract of any functioning community that one takes care of one's own. <<

Ideally, opportunities will allow people to provide for themselves. But if that doesn't happen, it is society's responsibility to provide at least survival needs. Reason being, a society which does not somehow meet the needs of it is citizens will cease to exist.

>> HOWEVER. When you get something with freakin' 300 MILLION people in it, you know as well as I do that you can't do one size fits all. <<

Agreed.

>> We say, "Okay, medicine must be non-profit. We will accredit non-profit orgs to do medicine, and we will accredit schools to teach medicine, and we will encourage people to become doctors and nurses and techs and such like, but there will always be multiples of each, and people can choose who they go to.... but we're not doing medicine *directly*." <<

Crucial point: nonprofit =/= volunteer. It does include volunteer systems, but also paid ones. You can get fair wages. It just means outsiders can't take money out and pocket it for their own self-aggrandizement. If a nonprofit turns a profit (yes, this happens) they have to either reinvest it in the organization, disperse it to members, or some combination.

>> .... which is why we need to re-make the whole damn thing in the first place, but that's kinda outta scope here... <<

If only. Ideally, I'd recommend studying the many examples of health care systems to see who does what best, then combine the best solutions into a fresh model. Because duh. But nobody wants to do that because *fairysparklewoo* AMERICA IS #1*** and therefore better.

>>then they'll have room left in their profit structure to actually serve decent food. <<

I'm actually a big fan of their 24-hour breakfast because their breakfast sandwiches are now (usually) edible. Didn't use to be.

From:

kengr

Some day I'm going to unearth my high school yearbook and scan some of the pics of me in my wrestling uniform. I'm obviously skinny as heck.

And at the time I was the same height I am now, and weighed 180-190.

Why is that important? Because I've had doctors tell my my "ideal weight" is 170!

I really *am* "heavy boned". My wrists are over 8" around. I used to have trouble finding watchbands that fit.

Now, mind you, I *am* way overweight. But that's due to one of those same doctors ignoring my sleep apnea symptoms for over a year.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Good idea.

It bothers me that doctors have such a bottleneck on health care, because if they're being stupid, it leaves people with no recourse and untreated problems. Plus abuse. Plus extra abuse if they try to solve their own problems. >_

From:

ikneko

That's really unfortunate for the Hospital and all its patients. It's like no one really planned that one out.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

I feel sorry for the people stuck there. It's hard to think of a more blatant way of saying "We care more about money than whether you live or die." O_O

From:

ikneko

Seems like a corporate america thing to do. ¬_¬

I would like to think that somewhere along the lines someone proposed McDonald's because it's affordable. Also, I don't really think it's for the patients but for their guests. I Could be wrong though. :P

From:

ysabetwordsmith

While not impossible, I suspect that the motive is profit, because adjunct restaurants routinely jack up their prices to take advantage of a captive audience. I'd compare prices at that location with other McDonald's in the same town.

I actually like McDonald's better now than I used to, on account of their improved quality in breakfast sandwiches and 24-hour breakfast service. It's made them a go-to brunch stop when traveling. But it's not a good idea to put junk-food-style fast food in a hospital. Even the visitors tend to be strung out and in need of decent fuel.

Ironically, a T-American hospital's vending village has better food than McDonald's, without even going down to the the epic cafe.

From:

mashfanficchick

The good thing is that my local hospital system (Northwell Health, formerly known as Long Island Jewish / North Shore Hospital) has better sense than that overall; they partner with Au Bon Pan, and also stock their "candy" machines with healthy options like tuna kits and protein packs.

(The bad thing is that they occasionally take it too far, by dint of not realizing how individuals' needs might not be what's expected. Case in point: they only have diet soda on campus, for sale or otherwise. So if you're in the ER with a loved one, and can't have diet soda or coffee--as is the case with MANY people I know--you're screwed if you rely on caffeine to stay awake.)

From:

technoshaman

*nods* I don't know who runs the bistro at the local cancer centre, but it's *good*... healthy, but with some comfort-food choices when you Just Gotta, a good selection of soda mit and mitout, juices, milk, plain and fizzy water... and it's *inexpensive*!

The medical centre that houses my soon-to-be-ex-PCP (moved out of her area, *and* they got bought by .... not getting into THAT can of worms...) has Specialty's Bakery for an anchor tenant... sandwiches, soup, good selection of drinkables spanning the whole range, and the best gorram COOKIES EVAR...

A balance is definitely necessary. Moderation in ALL things! (Including moderation! ;)

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> *nods* I don't know who runs the bistro at the local cancer centre, but it's *good*... healthy, but with some comfort-food choices when you Just Gotta, a good selection of soda mit and mitout, juices, milk, plain and fizzy water... and it's *inexpensive*! <<

Awesome! Behold the clue, and the having of it.

I've seen some brilliant stuff in T-America. The Freeman Family Hospital in T-Omaha has a cafe that's so good, people stop there just to eat -- which makes it a perfect teaching opportunity. They serve a rotating menu. There are always two items marked Healthy Choice (low-calorie, high nutrition) and Food for Life (different nutrition program that isn't as low-calorie). Usually there's a mix of vegetarian and carnivore cuisine, and things like tacos or stir-fry are often tagged Vegetarian Option Available. Diverse cultures are represented; Indian lentil dishes are especially popular because they are cheap, tasty, and with a side of rice they make a complete protein. They also serve some comfort foods, again from mixed cultures. The main menu is augmented by the bar which can serve salads, tacos, desserts, etc. Plus you can see hospital staff eating in there routinely.

One of the poems I want to write involves Dr. Bloch encouraging Shiv to touch base with someone at Freeman, so he'll have local backup in case of an emergency. Turns out the hospital hands out vouchers for free cafe meals at appointments where they're trying to entice people to come in. *chuckle* Feed a cat, gain a cat.

>> The medical centre that houses my soon-to-be-ex-PCP (moved out of her area, *and* they got bought by .... not getting into THAT can of worms...) has Specialty's Bakery for an anchor tenant... sandwiches, soup, good selection of drinkables spanning the whole range, and the best gorram COOKIES EVAR... <<

That is awesome. :D

>> A balance is definitely necessary. Moderation in ALL things! (Including moderation! ;) <<

Agreed. People need freedom to make their own choices based on needs of the moment. Comfort food sticks to your ribs, a good choice if you're stuck somewhere for hours. But you also need light, easy-to-digest things for people who are anxious and need to eat anyhow. I feel that restaurants at health facilities should be obligated to serve ALL dietary needs, because people often lack the ability to go elsewhere.

From:

technoshaman

I feel that restaurants at health facilities should be obligated to serve ALL dietary needs, because people often lack the ability to go elsewhere.

Yes please.

It occurs to me that a diet consisting only of foods native to Northwest Europe is really rather boring... no nightshades, no rice, no tropical fruit, no maize, no pasta, not much in the way of spice... *laughter* get this: Fish'n'chips, the quintessential British dish? Was invented by a *Jewish* guy ... and of course includes potatoes, which were unknown in the Old World before the early 1600s. It dates to 1860, which means in British terms, it's but a stripling!

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> It occurs to me that a diet consisting only of foods native to Northwest Europe is really rather boring... no nightshades, no rice, no tropical fruit, no maize, no pasta, not much in the way of spice... <<

LOL yes.

"Food's better ... we used to boil everything."

>> *laughter* get this: Fish'n'chips, the quintessential British dish? Was invented by a *Jewish* guy ... and of course includes potatoes, which were unknown in the Old World before the early 1600s. It dates to 1860, which means in British terms, it's but a stripling! <<

And at that, most people eat only a few varieties out of the several hundred edible or semi-edible potato types. I'm happy that fingerlings are becoming more popular, and the more colorful potatoes too. <3 blues.

From:

technoshaman

I like the purple ones myself. They have an... *interesting*.... flavour.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Yeah, it has dark, musky, or earthy notes that connect well with robust meats and strong spices. Purple or chocolate tomatoes + juniper berries and black peppercorns + elk, venison, or bison = YUM.

From:

technoshaman

Mmmmm, dang, I'm glad dinner's already in the oven, you've got me needing a napkin... ;)

From:

ysabetwordsmith

One of my recipes for such is posted here:
http://greenhaventradition.weebly.com/samhain-recipes.html

From:

mashfanficchick

I feel that restaurants at health facilities should be obligated to serve ALL dietary needs, because people often lack the ability to go elsewhere.

THIS! I have both celiac and an undiagnosed sugar-digestion disorder (basically, too much sugar without enough other stuff to round it out will end with me unable to digest ANY sugar, in any form, for several days). Literally the ONLY thing I can eat at McDonalds is a plain hamburger patty (with cheese, if I wanted it), and a plain garden salad (maybe). Whereas at Au Bon Pan, there are multiple prepackaged salads with gluten-free labels, plenty of single-serve items like hard-boiled eggs and veggies & hummus, AND (because I know where my limits lie) made-to-order sandwiches on gluten-free bread. They also have zillions of vegetarian options, plenty of low-fat ones (including filling soups and sandwiches), many baked goods specifying different dietary needs (GF/low-fat/sugar-free/etc.), and a never-ending supply of all different drinks (including, if the hospital gets its head out of its tuchus, sugar-sweetened ones). Now THAT's a good place to keep ope 24/7!

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> THIS! I have both celiac and an undiagnosed sugar-digestion disorder (basically, too much sugar without enough other stuff to round it out will end with me unable to digest ANY sugar, in any form, for several days). <<

That sucks. My body has lockout reactions to some things too, although thank gods not a common food part like sugar.

Okay, weird random thought here: if you ever see L-sugar (also sometimes called mirror sugar) then you might consider trying it. Earth tends to produce R-sugar. They taste the same, but humans generally can't metabolize it. If you're getting an obscure metabolic failure with R-sugar, that makes me wonder if your digestion may have simply quirked to handle something this planet doesn't normally produce. Because eating things from the wrong planet can be a disaster.

>> Literally the ONLY thing I can eat at McDonalds is a plain hamburger patty (with cheese, if I wanted it), and a plain garden salad (maybe). <<

O_O Blargh.

>> Whereas at Au Bon Pan, there are multiple prepackaged salads with gluten-free labels, plenty of single-serve items like hard-boiled eggs and veggies & hummus, AND (because I know where my limits lie) made-to-order sandwiches on gluten-free bread.<<

That is so awesome. \o/

I had a good laugh over a scene with Stalwart Stan raiding the vending village at Freeman Family Hospital. Hummus. Fresh fruit. Jumble Munch. Snack packs of avocado deviled eggs with ham.

>> They also have zillions of vegetarian options, plenty of low-fat ones (including filling soups and sandwiches), many baked goods specifying different dietary needs (GF/low-fat/sugar-free/etc.), and a never-ending supply of all different drinks (including, if the hospital gets its head out of its tuchus, sugar-sweetened ones). Now THAT's a good place to keep ope 24/7! <<

Agreed. I hope they do well.

Sugar and caffeine are essential ingredients for some people. Me, I can't handle artificial sweeteners, they're unbearably bitter. I'd be stuck with water, which is fine for most purposes, but not always. And caffeine is addictive -- anyone used to it runs into miserable headaches if they can't get any. So not helping!

From:

kengr

*sigh*

I know that back in the 60s a big thing was made of how the hospital nutritionists who were sick of complaints about the various special diets started serving them to the doctors.

"What is this crap?!"

"Oh that's the diet you've prescribed to [list of patients]..."

But this *is* a sort of different problem.

I bet the McDonalds got in because they were willing to pay the most for the privilege.

From:

johnpalmer

That was especially bad with the "bland diet" which a lot of doctors just prescribed because, hey, it can't hurt. One hospital had a rule that a doctor with patients on a bland diet could get nothing else at the cafeteria and it was amazing how fast it was decided that "you know what? It *could* hurt! People don't like that crap!"

From:

kengr

When I was a kid and had braces (mom was friends with a dentist so we got reduced rates) mom tried to keep me on a low sugar diet.

After all these years I still remember how *awful* the "boysenberry" syrup for diabetics that she bought tasted. Yuck.

Thankfully tastes have improved a lot since the mid 60s.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Competence matters. Bland food is easy to wreck, but it doesn't have to be bad.

I used to describe my issues as "allergic to flavor." Some of that is better now, but there are still times my body won't tolerate most foods and rebels at flavor or scent. I've learned to work with it -- frex, plain applesauce is too acidic and upsets my stomach, it needs sugar, and cinnamon is better. Bananas are usually safe too. Used to be rice, but I can't digest that anymore. Chicken is another reliable item. If I just need to be a little careful, then most digestive spices (ginger, sage, etc.) are helpful. I have no trouble cooking relatively bland, easy-to-digest things if someone else needs it too. But I know what I'm doing.

A huge problem in health care is that most doctors know fuckall about food. They aren't trained to use it as a tool, so consequently they give lousy advice, sometimes downright destructive advice. (Recent example: advising someone to reduce fat, sugar, and carbohydrates.) When they can control your access to food, that can be very harmful. You want to know how food works for your body, beyond what you can figure out on your own? Ask a nutritionist or a dietician. They have that training, such as it is, subject to fashion. At least they can usually give you fresh ideas.

I love the idea of making doctors eat what they prescribe, though. That ought to be illuminating.

From:

ng_moonmoth

>> Hospital food is almost universally slop of exactly the kind they tell people not to eat <<

Amen! I was laid up for a week earlier this year, and it took me a couple of days to work through the menu to find the few items that didn't range from unappetizing to disgusting. And while I'm a foodie, and can appreciate the good stuff, I'm certainly no finicky gourmet.

Cooked vegetables were nearly a uniform disaster area -- barely beyond raw, and cold when brought to my room! "Beef" was pink slime, "chicken" mainly white slime. Hamburgers and grilled chicken breasts were apparently beyond their capability to desecrate; the sandwich meat and raw fruits and vegetables were good enough to sustain me. And the fish congee that was on the menu to appeal to their east Asian patients was rather good.

And this is what passes for food for patients at one of the better hospitals in my area. I shudder to think about what the hospitals serving less affluent areas might be reduced to.

I wonder if anyone has suggested that feeding their patients properly would be more likely to get them to recover enough to leave the hospital sooner? Or are they of the opinion that the food quality might prompt a faster exit? :/

From:

alatefeline

*headdesk*

From:

rhodielady-47.livejournal.com

I'd be willing to bet you a chocolate-covered doughnut that the McDonald's owner offered the owners of the hospital building a tidy sum for the privilege of moving in and doing business there.
Too many doctors still smoke/drink excessively, don't exercise, and don't know much if anything at all about proper diet.
:^{

From:

ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com

"Follow the money" is usually a good way to find out why horseshit like this is happening.

From:

rafaela.livejournal.com

Was about to say, hospitals are all about the bottom line.

From:

ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com

Certainly the for-profit ones are. The government ones are all about not spending money on people, and veterans can tell you how much that sucks. Some non-profit hospitals are much more focused on client care. Trouble is, they're uncommon, and never enough to meet demand.

From:

rhodielady-47.livejournal.com

""Follow the money" is usually a good way to find out why horseshit like this is happening."
This is something ALL teens need to be taught as soon as they begin to understand adult type social interactions.
:^}

From:

ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com

Agreed. Who benefits? Who gets screwed? Things that seem crazy can make a lot more sense when you ferret out the motives, even if they're still stupid things to do.

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