>> It took forever for me to learn to hula hoop. Or skip. Or jump rope even marginally. <<
I never did the hang of hula hooping. Skipping, no problem, and I'm adequate at jumping rope.
>> The frustration, I can understand well. One of the problems I see for Natka is that, while her body behaves BRILLIANTLY well at physical things... she has been encouraged to simply NOT THINK about it. Either do, or do not, there is no try. <<
Yes, exactly. She doesn't know how to play or explore with her body. Teaching was a matter of demonstrating a precise move and then abusing the kids until the survivors got it right.
>> And that means that she hasn't learned the trick which allowed me to /finally/ jump rope, or knit, or any of a dozen other physical skills. <<
Sadly so.
>> I unpack it down to /one/ foundational motion and spend weeks if it takes that long, just learning it. But to unpack it requires more than just observation, or explanation; I have to understand how /I/ move. How /my/ body takes up space and the quirks that make /this/ move possible now, but /that/ one needs to wait for another support skill first. <<
It's about experimentation, really -- knowing how to learn. If you don't know how to make mistakes, you can't learn very well, because your progress is more random. You're not able to distinguish between what works and what doesn't and see why. You just flounder.
>> Frex, belly dance. Friends suggested a /marvelous/ instructor, invited me along. I warned him that I was likely to be the worst belly dancer he'd ever met... and then I had to ask him to break down the hand motion called 'floriel' into the slowest repetition he could. I picked the starting point, copied it, and checked a couple of times, then tried to get the /one/ next motion. <<
Do what works for you. I'm good at bellydancing because I don't have to think about it; the music does the work for me. With something I have to remember, like swing or Irish, I'm much less adept and have a very hard time learning anything. I can maybe get one new step out of a lesson. I have a hard time convincing people that if I try to learn more, I won't retain any of it. Frustrating.
>> (Hand motions work with one of my strengths, are small enough to do anywhere without being odd, and are very distinctive, even within the different styles of belly dance; I didn't just say 'oo, I like that!) <<
It's a good idea to do the research, yes.
>> Sure, I tried to do everything the class suggested, but the one motion I was trying to get right /every time/ was that starting hand position, plus one step. Then, just... next things. Add the next. <<
Sooth. Novice bellydancers can do one thing at a time. Intermediates can do two or three. Advanced dancers can do it all at once.
>> One of the things both Betty and Phil are modeling is the /unpacking/ part of learning; they analyse what isn't working for /them/ and take steps to correct it in ways she can /see/ are different than just "try again"-- <<
I hadn't really thought about that, but yes, they are. It's important to analyze what you're doing and try to think what to change. So that's new and it helps.
>> Gah, I wanted to scream when that was the ONLY advice people would give me! <<
It took me a long time to realize that most people simply don't understand what they're doing well enough to explain it, not even most experts. A majority of instructions suck. It was bemusing to realize that my ability to analyze anything and break it down not just into steps but clearly worded actions that people can actually follow is rare enough to amount to a superpower. Seriously, I've had writing teachers tell me they're filching things out of my "how to write spells & rituals" book because it's the best instruction for writing that they've found. Well, yeah, I've read the ones that suck, I could do better so I did.
They don't mean to give useless advice. They just don't know what they're really doing, or how to describe it, or both. I've only ever found a few teachers who could really break things down in detail.
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dancing_serpent
Re: can't wait!
Date: 2014-09-13 07:55 am (UTC)I never did the hang of hula hooping. Skipping, no problem, and I'm adequate at jumping rope.
>> The frustration, I can understand well. One of the problems I see for Natka is that, while her body behaves BRILLIANTLY well at physical things... she has been encouraged to simply NOT THINK about it. Either do, or do not, there is no try. <<
Yes, exactly. She doesn't know how to play or explore with her body. Teaching was a matter of demonstrating a precise move and then abusing the kids until the survivors got it right.
>> And that means that she hasn't learned the trick which allowed me to /finally/ jump rope, or knit, or any of a dozen other physical skills. <<
Sadly so.
>> I unpack it down to /one/ foundational motion and spend weeks if it takes that long, just learning it. But to unpack it requires more than just observation, or explanation; I have to understand how /I/ move. How /my/ body takes up space and the quirks that make /this/ move possible now, but /that/ one needs to wait for another support skill first. <<
It's about experimentation, really -- knowing how to learn. If you don't know how to make mistakes, you can't learn very well, because your progress is more random. You're not able to distinguish between what works and what doesn't and see why. You just flounder.
>> Frex, belly dance. Friends suggested a /marvelous/ instructor, invited me along. I warned him that I was likely to be the worst belly dancer he'd ever met... and then I had to ask him to break down the hand motion called 'floriel' into the slowest repetition he could. I picked the starting point, copied it, and checked a couple of times, then tried to get the /one/ next motion. <<
Do what works for you. I'm good at bellydancing because I don't have to think about it; the music does the work for me. With something I have to remember, like swing or Irish, I'm much less adept and have a very hard time learning anything. I can maybe get one new step out of a lesson. I have a hard time convincing people that if I try to learn more, I won't retain any of it. Frustrating.
>> (Hand motions work with one of my strengths, are small enough to do anywhere without being odd, and are very distinctive, even within the different styles of belly dance; I didn't just say 'oo, I like that!) <<
It's a good idea to do the research, yes.
>> Sure, I tried to do everything the class suggested, but the one motion I was trying to get right /every time/ was that starting hand position, plus one step. Then, just... next things. Add the next. <<
Sooth. Novice bellydancers can do one thing at a time. Intermediates can do two or three. Advanced dancers can do it all at once.
>> One of the things both Betty and Phil are modeling is the /unpacking/ part of learning; they analyse what isn't working for /them/ and take steps to correct it in ways she can /see/ are different than just "try again"-- <<
I hadn't really thought about that, but yes, they are. It's important to analyze what you're doing and try to think what to change. So that's new and it helps.
>> Gah, I wanted to scream when that was the ONLY advice people would give me! <<
It took me a long time to realize that most people simply don't understand what they're doing well enough to explain it, not even most experts. A majority of instructions suck. It was bemusing to realize that my ability to analyze anything and break it down not just into steps but clearly worded actions that people can actually follow is rare enough to amount to a superpower. Seriously, I've had writing teachers tell me they're filching things out of my "how to write spells & rituals" book because it's the best instruction for writing that they've found. Well, yeah, I've read the ones that suck, I could do better so I did.
They don't mean to give useless advice. They just don't know what they're really doing, or how to describe it, or both. I've only ever found a few teachers who could really break things down in detail.