>> That key question-- "What is friendship?" is to me t-h-e reason that Tony created the 'bots. <<
Yes. He needed interaction, but above all, acceptance.
>> Not merely because "profoundly gifted" children really, really don't understand other children and can truly freak out adult caregivers, <<
It's not just a lack of understanding. Smart people often find average people boring, and average people often find smart people scary. It doesn't always happen that way, but it's a trend. So gifted children routinely grow up with few or no peers, and consequently few or no friends; and then everyone is surprised and blames them when they have crappy social skills and no friends.
You can see the effects of this not just with Tony but also with Bruce. Steve and Clint have the reverse version: smart people who were treated as stupid because they also had physical skills. Clint has it really bad, because he grew up with it. For Steve it's a later imprint, but post-serum everyone treated him like a meat puppet. It's enough to do some damage.
>> but because Tony ended up within a walled city of increasingly isolating 'worlds': gifted, only child of neglectful, erratic, alcoholic adults, extremely rich and vulnerable to exploitation or kidnapping, thrust into ever more adult expectations at unreasonable emotional/physical ages...<<
Yes, that's a disaster. It's no wonder the poor guy has boundary issues.
>> Who "Tony Stark" actually IS seems to be hidden behind a circular labyrinth. <<
It is. He was trained early on to present only a pleasing appearance to the press. As a teenager, naturally Tony rebelled against that and spent a decade or two acting like a hellion. But he always showed people what he wanted them to see: never the real Tony. That was hidden as deeply as he could conceal it, as soon as he learned how. It was very difficult to hurt him for real, because the target was buried under very dense cover.
>> I doubt many people have taken enough time to work through the dead ends and switchbacks without resorting to gross destruction of his emotional/mental "walls". <<
They haven't. I think Happy knows Tony better than most people realize, because he doesn't try to dig in: he just does what Tony asks or needs of him. So he's more likely to see Tony vulnerable than anyone else, prior to game night. Rhodey knows Tony pretty well, because they met when Tony was still young; not all the walls were up yet. That's probably why Rhodey is so stressed in the movies; later on, Tony shuts him out more, and that hurts. Pepper is probably the one who's done the most work of trying to solve Tony like a maze, using her perceptions to navigate through; but she nags so much, it's hard for him to get his walls down even when he wants to. So they didn't work out.
Phil made some early mistakes trying to manage Tony, but he has learned from those, and is now being a lot more careful. That matters.
>> I just wish that the movies had taken more time (seconds, blast it, SECONDS could've accomplished the task!) to show Tony interacting with the 'bots when they weren't the butt of a joke! <<
I wish that too. The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are when DUM-E saved Tony's life and Tony said "Good boy," and when JARVIS was trying to talk Tony into telling someone about the palladium poisoning. Really, this is a classic example of how disadvantaged groups are treated in entertainment: frequently as the plucky comic relief. Compare the role of JARVIS and the bots to roles played by black actors. Now you can see why I write them with more depth and nuance.
>> Last of all, thank you for responding so quickly and fluently to my quick comments. <<
You're welcome! I love interacting with the audience. Usually I come back and answer the previous batch of comments after I post the next installment, but sometimes I'll jump in earlier if there's a comment that seems more important. You really nailed a lot of key issues in this part of the story, so I wanted to address that sooner rather than later.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dancing_serpent
Re: Is there such a thing as a "perfect mistake"?
Date: 2014-03-08 02:47 am (UTC)Yes. He needed interaction, but above all, acceptance.
>> Not merely because "profoundly gifted" children really, really don't understand other children and can truly freak out adult caregivers, <<
It's not just a lack of understanding. Smart people often find average people boring, and average people often find smart people scary. It doesn't always happen that way, but it's a trend. So gifted children routinely grow up with few or no peers, and consequently few or no friends; and then everyone is surprised and blames them when they have crappy social skills and no friends.
You can see the effects of this not just with Tony but also with Bruce. Steve and Clint have the reverse version: smart people who were treated as stupid because they also had physical skills. Clint has it really bad, because he grew up with it. For Steve it's a later imprint, but post-serum everyone treated him like a meat puppet. It's enough to do some damage.
>> but because Tony ended up within a walled city of increasingly isolating 'worlds': gifted, only child of neglectful, erratic, alcoholic adults, extremely rich and vulnerable to exploitation or kidnapping, thrust into ever more adult expectations at unreasonable emotional/physical ages...<<
Yes, that's a disaster. It's no wonder the poor guy has boundary issues.
>> Who "Tony Stark" actually IS seems to be hidden behind a circular labyrinth. <<
It is. He was trained early on to present only a pleasing appearance to the press. As a teenager, naturally Tony rebelled against that and spent a decade or two acting like a hellion. But he always showed people what he wanted them to see: never the real Tony. That was hidden as deeply as he could conceal it, as soon as he learned how. It was very difficult to hurt him for real, because the target was buried under very dense cover.
>> I doubt many people have taken enough time to work through the dead ends and switchbacks without resorting to gross destruction of his emotional/mental "walls". <<
They haven't. I think Happy knows Tony better than most people realize, because he doesn't try to dig in: he just does what Tony asks or needs of him. So he's more likely to see Tony vulnerable than anyone else, prior to game night. Rhodey knows Tony pretty well, because they met when Tony was still young; not all the walls were up yet. That's probably why Rhodey is so stressed in the movies; later on, Tony shuts him out more, and that hurts. Pepper is probably the one who's done the most work of trying to solve Tony like a maze, using her perceptions to navigate through; but she nags so much, it's hard for him to get his walls down even when he wants to. So they didn't work out.
Phil made some early mistakes trying to manage Tony, but he has learned from those, and is now being a lot more careful. That matters.
>> I just wish that the movies had taken more time (seconds, blast it, SECONDS could've accomplished the task!) to show Tony interacting with the 'bots when they weren't the butt of a joke! <<
I wish that too. The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are when DUM-E saved Tony's life and Tony said "Good boy," and when JARVIS was trying to talk Tony into telling someone about the palladium poisoning. Really, this is a classic example of how disadvantaged groups are treated in entertainment: frequently as the plucky comic relief. Compare the role of JARVIS and the bots to roles played by black actors. Now you can see why I write them with more depth and nuance.
>> Last of all, thank you for responding so quickly and fluently to my quick comments. <<
You're welcome! I love interacting with the audience. Usually I come back and answer the previous batch of comments after I post the next installment, but sometimes I'll jump in earlier if there's a comment that seems more important. You really nailed a lot of key issues in this part of the story, so I wanted to address that sooner rather than later.