ysabetwordsmith | Philosophical Questions: Reality

People have expressed interest in deep topics, so this list focuses on philosophical questions.

As more and more is being discovered about quantum physics, we become less and less able to comprehend the nature of reality. Is this something temporary and our minds will adapt and begin to understand this new reality or is it possible that the human mind will soon reach its limits of comprehension? If it’s only temporary, is there is a limit to what the human mind can comprehend? If we are reaching our limits, how do we continue to study our reality?

*laugh* This is not new. People freak out about this at least once a century or so.

We are still able to comprehend the nature of reality, or rather, the one most people inhabit most of the time. As some people climb into other layers, it is much like opening up a new level in a game: it takes a while to learn how it works. Once you have learned it, you start looking for a new level. This is normal.

The human brain has limitations. It is a finite object with a given (if large) amount of storage and processing capacity. The human mind is less limited, but still has to deal with the brain's limits. The human soul is not limited, but well, it's also a great deal bigger than will fit in the brain. So it's kind of like the soul is a mainframe and the brain is a terminal; you're only dealing with a small subset of the total potential of your soul actually in your brain. (Most people download what they expect to need in a current life at the beginning, and cannot maintain a two-way link the whole time. Those of us with farmemory can learn to maintain that and can send a request at any time, "Oh hey, I need to knap flint, download the Knapping module," for skills we haven't permed. Very handy. That said, where you choose to aim your brain is up to you. Study quantum physics if you want to, it's fun.

You continue to study reality (or whatever else you like) by asking the next questions. There are always more questions. You are never going to run out, because each answer usually spawns several new questions. Curiosity is fractal like that.

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From:

kengr

Assuming that the base conjecture (that the universe has rules, and they are consistent) is true, then we should always be able to describe them, even if we can't wrap our heads around what the math "means".

From:

ysabetwordsmith

That's a good way to put it.

I would say, the universe is self-consistent in that the rules apply where they apply. We aren't going to visit Neptune and find that gravity makes things fall up or that oxygen is a metal.

However, when you are dealing with different levels, the rules can change; hence why quantum physics and conventional physics describe how things work on different scales.

Another factor is that we can extrapolate rules, but it make take some time and a lot of extra examples to find the exceptions.

From:

see_also_friend

>>...that oxygen is a metal.<<

I can imagine that under sufficient gravity, oxygen could be compressed to a metal-like state.

>>Another factor is that we can extrapolate rules, but it make take some time and a lot of extra examples to find the exceptions.<<

I would say that we can extrapolate rules /in familiar context/. So:

- we know that humans grow...but if we have no data points for 12+years old, then we might infer that humans grow consistently through our lives

- if we live on a planet we know that gravity pulls down, but in space we know that gravity pulls towards mass

- if dealing with humans (and some dogs) we know that smiles are good, but when dealing with just about anything else a 'smile' is /very bad news/

I mean, realistically 'gravity pulls toward mass' is a better rule than 'gravity pulls stuff down.' But humans have far more experience with the latter than the former, since we mostly live, travel, and just generally exist on planets.

From:

anxious_songbird

*laugh* This is not new. People freak out about this at least once a century or so.

This is weirdly conformting? Like, this isn't exactly what I was freaking out about ealier this month.But it's nice to know most humans freak out about something excistenticial.

But yea, hard agree on the thesis statment

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> This is weirdly conformting? Like, this isn't exactly what I was freaking out about ealier this month.But it's nice to know most humans freak out about something excistenticial.<<

Totally normal. Falling through into a whole new paradigm is startling at best if you know that sort of thing can happen, and terrifying at worst if you were just walking along and stepped in a hole and now have nothing familiar to hold onto.

However, existential awareness is something people can cultivate. That's what I'm doing with these big-picture questions. Some people are high in existential intelligence, others lower, but anyone can practice thinking about these things and get better at it. Or at least learn your limits and when to call an expert. It can keep you from making ghastly personal mistakes, or ethical disasters at work, that less-practiced people might not spot in time.

From:

spiced_wine

I’m really bad at maths but I can wrap my head around someone talking about quantum physics or reading about it, or even seeing it used in films although how ‘accurate’ that is, I don’t know.
I simply can’t understand how they get to that point. I remember reading a quantum physicist saying ‘If you say you understand quantum physics, you don’t.’ But I do love that there are things that explode the mind!

From:

ysabetwordsmith

You can explore quantum physics with math, but you don't have to use that approach. I'm bad at math, so I use existential intelligence, cosmology, shamanism, magic, and other esoteric approaches instead. I like to read about people doing math if they offer a good summary, though.

My favorite explanation is this:

Imagine a spectrum with science on one end and magic on the other.

Now bend it so the two ends face each other like a torc.

The gap between the two ends is quantum physics.

This is why it confuses people. The best way to understand it is by using both science and magic, but those of us doing that are very, very rare.

From:

spiced_wine

Imagine a spectrum with science on one end and magic on the other.

Now bend it so the two ends face each other like a torc.

The gap between the two ends is quantum physics.

This is excellent.

I’ve had enough experiences to wonder at the nature of reality and where it all goes wobbly 😂 Most of them are only minor but enough to make me think. And things that I broadly lump in, such a the paranormal and being Pixie Led, or if not lead then definitely being tampered with so that you cannot find places that are definitely there.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> This is excellent. <<

Thank you!

>> I’ve had enough experiences to wonder at the nature of reality and where it all goes wobbly 😂 Most of them are only minor but enough to make me think. <<

One that most people have experienced is how time is not linear and is elastic. But they pretend it is linear and constant.

>> And things that I broadly lump in, such a the paranormal and being Pixie Led, or if not lead then definitely being tampered with so that you cannot find places that are definitely there.<<

LOL yes, that happened in our ritual meadow once. Someone stepped on a Stray Sod -- we heard the squeal! -- and suddenly she couldn't see the gate that was right in front of her and firelit. After a few minutes of us giggling as she wandered in circles, I hollered for her to turn her jacket inside out. Hey, presto! There was the gate.

From:

spiced_wine

LOL yes, that happened in our ritual meadow once. Someone stepped on a Stray Sod -- we heard the squeal! -- and suddenly she couldn't see the gate that was right in front of her and firelit. After a few minutes of us giggling as she wandered in circles, I hollered for her to turn her jacket inside out. Hey, presto! There was the gate.

Oh wow! Yes, Stray Sod, I couldn’t think of the term. Was she annoyed? Did she laugh?

Ours wasn’t that dramatic. We were holidaying in a part of Wales I’d never been (My maternal family are Welsh) called Nevern, which is known for it’s Bleeding Yew in the churchyard, also right next to the Prescelli hills and Carn Ingli which means Mount of Angels and is supposed to be a sacred place. (There is a view that shows the mountain in the shape of a sleeping goddess).

The whole area was very ‘liminal’-feeling.

We’d arrived at the cottage, unpacked and decided to drive into the little town of Newport (not the city, this one is on the coast) to buy something. Drove in, drove back, and could not find the turning to Nevern. It’s not even that far. It’s a few miles. Up and down we drove, further and further, right back into Newport, then the other way, miles beyond where the turning should be. My mother was driving and I had a map (she didn’t have Sat Nav). My partner and a friend were back at the cottage so I tried to call them and that road has no mobile signal except in spots. I was saying, the turning’s right here! It wasn’t.

We started getting hysterical giggles and I said we’ll be driving up and down this damn road forever and people will be sighting us in years to come. We’re trapped! Then I said, please, please let us find the cottage before we pass out from hunger. And the next moment we found the turning which is not that hard to find and signposted, it’s not semi-hidden or anything.

A few days later, we decided to look at Pentre Ifan Cromlech, which wasn’t that far away. We’d passed the sign for it once when we drove down into the lovely little Gwaun Valley. We drove back to see it, a mist came down over the hills. There’s a little lay-by and you can also see Pentre Ifan from the road as we had previously. Could we find it? No, and yet it’s not hard, it’s not that remote (though it feels it). I am a pretty good map-reader and I was bewildered.

But that area has a very strange feeling, you can get quite dreamy just being there.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> Oh wow! Yes, Stray Sod, I couldn’t think of the term. Was she annoyed? Did she laugh? <<

Less annoyed and more confused.

>>The whole area was very ‘liminal’-feeling.<<

That'll do it. Changing things around is easier when they're not tightly anchored in the first place.

>> Then I said, please, please let us find the cottage before we pass out from hunger. And the next moment we found the turning which is not that hard to find and signposted, it’s not semi-hidden or anything.<<

Very smart. It helps to know ways of dealing with fey challenges.

>>Could we find it? No, and yet it’s not hard, it’s not that remote (though it feels it). I am a pretty good map-reader and I was bewildered.<<

Yeah, some places don't get on with maps.

From:

spiced_wine

Yeah, some places don't get on with maps.

They don’t, do they? It’s as if the map is concertinaed. And they don’t have to be remote or geography large; they can be very small areas.

From:

see_also_friend

Re: physics, I can't do the fancy math, but I can recognize the patterns. Compare how people can tell what is plausible or not when perceiving: singing, sports, acrobatics, dancing etc, even if they cannot preform the action themselves.

From:

we_are_spc

I kinda feel like reality is as fluid as time/space are. (time...more fluid than space IME, but that's just me)

It's weird for me, because I have far memory from a couple of different places...and I'm one of those exceptions because plurality xd.

But the levels are fun. I just...sometimes need a guide because not everywhere is...well...I still have the human body in my dreamscape, and it's sometimes challenging when you realize that you can't find your way back to where you want to be because no landmarks.

I've yet to figure out how to shed the *human* without doing actual *harm* though I'm being told it can be done with time and practice...I just haven't figured out where to start.

On a related topic: I'd thought about studdying cquantom physics, but I feel like it might be confusing without models in front of me, etc. But I could be mistaken about that.

-T~

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> I kinda feel like reality is as fluid as time/space are. (time...more fluid than space IME, but that's just me) <<

It is fluid.

>>But the levels are fun. I just...sometimes need a guide because not everywhere is...well...I still have the human body in my dreamscape, and it's sometimes challenging when you realize that you can't find your way back to where you want to be because no landmarks.<<

Yeah, that's complicated.

>>On a related topic: I'd thought about studdying cquantom physics, but I feel like it might be confusing without models in front of me, etc. But I could be mistaken about that.<<

Well, here's one: imagine a spectrum with science on one end, magic on the other. Bend it into a circle so the ends face each other, like a torc. In the gap between the ends is quantum physics.

Probably there are science models for particles and such, but that stuff tends to be expensive.

From:

we_are_spc

It's even more complicated when some of said same people end up finding the inn and wonder where you've been hecause they expect me to be able to find my way back and I...don't know how. *sighs* (And yesk, this has happened, unfortunately. Thankfully most have been understanding...most, mind you.)

Well, here's one: imagine a spectrum with science on one end, magic on the other. Bend it into a circle so the ends face each other, like a torc. In the gap between the ends is quantum physics.

Oooh, sweet, that actually makes it make a bit more sence than most people's explanations, doo. Thank you. :)

Probably there are science models for particles and such, but that stuff tends to be expensive.

Yeah, it does. Even when you buy it from companies that make things for people like us folks who are blind.

-T~

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> Oooh, sweet, that actually makes it make a bit more sence than most people's explanations, doo. Thank you. :)

Yay!

>> Yeah, it does. Even when you buy it from companies that make things for people like us folks who are blind.<<

People jack up the prices for science items and for disability items.

Look for toys. They may be on the higher end for playthings but will be consistently cheaper than the previous two options, and there are some damn fine science toys. You can get take-apart anatomical models of a human, a horse, and various other things. There are model kits for atoms and molecules.

But there's another, even cheaper option -- crafts. One popular way to model atoms is by sticking toothpicks into gumdrops or marshmallows. It works surprisingly well.

Some science experiments are meant to be played with. Oobleck is an example of a non-Newtonian fluid that performs "the slow blade penetrates the shield" tricks. Approached with force, it behaves like a solid. You can literally run across a swimming pool of the stuff. But with a softer touch, its texture is like a thick liquid.

If you do well with models, then collect things to play with. Get in the habit of modeling things with your hands and whatever supplies you have. There are 3D doodle kits for schools, but again, they're expensive. Fuck 'em. You can make models with pencils, Legos, marshmallows, pipe cleaners, cardboard, whatever. A list of craft supplies and a list of makerspace supplies would be good places to start. You can source things from a thrift store or even use stuff that would be thrown out.

https://www.themakersmap.com/supplylist/

https://builderology.com/the-big-list-of-makerspace-materials-ideas/

From:

we_are_spc

I had to laugh.

My sience teacher mad a double heelix that way.

she taped a holbunch of unopend candycanes together, took toothpicks, then put a marshemmow, gumdrop, another marshmello, then strung it all together in a spiral so we could feel what it would .look like.

Obviously it's way less visible than the moddle (to some people) but it worked.

I'll need to start making a file of the links you give us so I don't lose them. xd

-T~

From:

ysabetwordsmith

It's important to have models that work for you. If you're not looking at them visually, then the appearance doesn't matter.

From:

see_also_friend

Also look at sign language and also some forms of stage performance art. You can use those skills to make a kinetic model.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

A good-quality artist's model will take and hold any pose you give it. There are hand models. I've seen people set them into ASL signs or Hindu mudras.

From:

see_also_friend

Not exactly what I meant.

If I have a physical model (a doll, dollhouse, artists model whatever) you have the physical shape, which might have movement to 'accesorize.'

If using [American] sign languague, the main, hmm, component is the movement. So 'horse running' will show the movement of the ears and the movement of the legs. 'Washing machine' shows the clothes being spin and tossed about.

So if I take the skills /from/ sign languague to model, say, an atom, I might drum my fingers on the table in a tight cluster for the nucleus-particles, and then tap a few places further out with one finger, before using that finger to mark out an orbit.

So you have a model of an atom, so to speak, but it incorporates visual, audial, tactile, and a bit of kinesthetic feedback. It also emphasizes the movement aspect of 'bits of stuff whizzing about in space' far better than a static model.

And it wouldn't require a physical item, beyond working hands and a bit of space.

Or look up the ASL sign for 'spider' - it makes a pretty good model of a big, ugly spider.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Ah, okay. This reminds me of protactile sign language, which has to modify signs so they make more sense in contact with flesh. Motion is a big part of that.

From:

see_also_friend

Yes, similar, in PTS 'The cat climbs the tree,' requires a tree [listener's hand/arm] and a cat [speaker's hand]. You're just swapping out the perceiving sense.

That concrete-ness seems to be a more common feature in signed languagues (visual or tactile) than spoken-audial languagues. The spoken ones tend to be more abstract/symbols/whatever (& I am not entirely sure /why/, so that is an interesting question).

I guess you could call it onomatopoeia-with-hands, or mimicking the look of things.

It only really occured to me as a thing because I have incorporated it into my communication strategy in the past. For example, it is easier to convey "I am leaving but will come back," by having your hand walk away and then back as opposed to going "I esse ius retro," and recieving a blank look because the other person finds Latin totally incomprehensible. (I do not speak Latin, translation by Google Translate.)

Anyway, my point is that my atom-model would still be a model, but it emphasizes the movement and energy rather than the shape, as with pock 'em up toy models.

Someone could probably do the same thing with sound, like whistling out a graph, though most variations of that trick (like mimicking birdcalls) would register to me as mimicry rather than a model. (Sound is more static in space, and often more 2d than signs.)

From:

see_also_friend

>>...practice...I just haven't figured out where to start.<<

I have no idea if it would work, but meditation? I'm sure I've herd of experienced practitioners peeling apart the illusions of reality like separating orange slices.

There's probably a ton of info for Buddhist practices, some that have bled into the secular realm, and a few more from more reclusive religious traditions.

Actually, I think some of the smaller religions might use drugs* with or instead of meditation. Also cross reference with stuff like rituals and chants and hypnosis...
*(For the record, I am not recommending unsupervised use of stuff like LSD. Playing with drugs can be risky!)

From:

we_are_spc

"peeling apart the layers of reality like range slices"

*laughs* I've never heard it put that way. I've heard of onion layers, but orange slices makes it easier to parse for some reason.

I didn't think about meditation. I'd also need to practice lucid dreaming so I could remember how I did it in dreamscape, too. Landmarks/being elven (Because yes, I'm fae as well) is...well, see above. xd

-T~

From:

ysabetwordsmith

>> *laughs* I've never heard it put that way. I've heard of onion layers, but orange slices makes it easier to parse for some reason. <<

It could be the shape. An onion is concentric, but an orange is radially divided and also designed to come apart like that.

>> I didn't think about meditation. I'd also need to practice lucid dreaming so I could remember how I did it in dreamscape, too. Landmarks/being elven (Because yes, I'm fae as well) is...well, see above. xd <<

Meditation is a good idea anyway, given the plural context. You want an orderly mind if possible for that.

From:

we_are_spc

It could be the shape. An onion is concentric, but an orange is radially divided and also designed to come apart like that.

That's...a fair point.

>> I didn't think abou
Meditation is a good idea anyway, given the plural context. You want an orderly mind if possible for that.

...

Yeah...and I'm still trying to figure out a meditation style that works consistantly for me.

I'm realising that not only am I elven...I have more of thje 'phoenix' in me than I realized. so it's like...uh...Help?

LOL

I'd just start with one layer )elven) tjhen work in the other...but they're sointerconnect now that that isn't working so well anymore.

-T~

From:

see_also_friend

>>I've heard of onion layers, but orange slices makes it easier to parse for some reason.<<

I think in order to see the onion layers, you'd have to destroy the onion, either cutting it in half or chopping it into smaller pieces.

The orange pieces can still fit back together a bit. Plus, people are more likely to have played around with a peeled orange than a sliced onion. At least oranges don't make you cry!

>>I'd also need to practice lucid dreaming so I could remember how I did it in dreamscape, too. Landmarks/being elven (Because yes, I'm fae as well) is...well, see above. xd<<

I know there are some therapy / cognitive training / whatever skills that can be used to influence retrain thought patterns. Some of them seem similar to the aforementioned meditation and meditation-like skills. I can't say for sure, but it does seem like they would be extremely useful in a scenario where thought and emotion have a bigger influence than physics.

From:

goatgodschild

When it comes to reality, I am often frustrated by people who get all excited about the very shallowest of hypotheticals -- personally, the Simulation people particularly grind my gears.

I don't think they would frustrate me so much if I have not been living with a very intimate understanding that what most humans refer to as "reality" is a thin skin over so much more.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

LOL humans LOL

"Reality" is a zillion whizzing little bits of energy holding hands and pretending really hard to be solid.

You should see people freaking out when my reality supercedes theirs and suddenly numbers don't add up, inanimate objects wander off, and the cardinal directions play Twister.

"Welcome to my world, lady."

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