>>Yes, but how many times have you seen any female character explicitly shielding the delicate sensibilities of any male? It's just so precise a flip.<<
Not many, admittedly (I've listed a few examples below). I think my main objection in this case is that it feels less like shielding because of, or irrespective of their gender(s), and more like she's a Caretaker shielding her Caretake-e. I'd have preferred to see that dynamic between characters on more equal footing, or with less of a nurtur-y feel.
It's like the "Oh, lets toss in a pregnant warrior! that's feminist!" in Avatar 2. Fine, you want to make a feminist movie, but just tossing in a Pregnant Badass doesn't actually fix or prove anything. Instead, maybe: - shake up the male-warrior-leader and female-healer-priestess dynamic - heck, stop the warrior/healer dichotomy. Stock fantasy always divides folks into warriors and (usually pacifist) healers with very few other roles, even when other roles would make sense - introduce more gender roles and labor divisions that aren't so Eurocentric - heck, have some really different cultural stuff: alloparenting by the whole community, potlaches, tree marriage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_marriage), living root bridges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_root_bridge)... - stop repeating the pattern of male bully and enlightened female love interest for the guys in the Sully family
Now, examples of protective women, protected men-
A Brothers Price, since it flips gender roles does this at least once; ("No talking about miscarriages/stillbirths around the menfolk!")
In Gone With the Wind, Scarlett provides for Ashley throughout Reconstruction, and she never actually tells him about surviving the war or her dark secrets. She's also gentle with her father, after he develops, dunno, traumatic amnesia and keeps forgetting that Mrs. O'Hara is dead. And there's a pretty good passage in the same book detailing how women are supposed to deal with some very difficult things (childbirth) while soothing their menfolk dealing with less difficult things (splinters).
Here is a Fury Road fanfic, and while no-one's innocence is completely shielded, given the setting, there are a few examples: https://archiveofourown.org/series/290441
- Furiosa protects her crew from the Organic Mechanic; including letting them sleep in her quarters when injured so no-one will mess with them [feminist pro-consent reversal of male-warrior guarding the honor of 'his' womenfolk/family/harem]
- there's a scene where a dying warboy asks one of the surviving Vulvalini to guard him while he's dying because "sometimes they do things that won't fix you anyway." [reversal of chivalrous Knight and fair maiden asking for help]
- they have to talk a female unethical doctor out of mandating a certain medical procedure for the Warboys [reversal of male doctors making hysterectomy decisions for women]
- at one point, some of the warboys want one of the Vulvalini as their new Imperator, and basically nominate her for the post [because she's a female example of a Father to His Men]; the deciding factor was her refusing to abandon someone who to die alone in the desert
The Protector of the Small quartet has Kel (a lady page/knight/squire) who takes chivalry seriously, including strenuously objecting to bullying from the older pages, which has her defending her male classmates with her martial arts skills. [usually chivalry = boys are supposed to protect the girl]
Harry Potter: this is more Fridge Logic than from the text, but I figure Hermionie (muggleborn, had to protect herself and her parents from Neo-Nazis since she was twelve, mindwiped her parents and his them in Australia) never once in the seventh book complains, all her efforts are focused on protecting her friend and the mission. Contrast with Ron who takes until halfway through the book to quit whining about life on the run. Plus she is the one who plans everything, to the point where the bys would probably be dead without her [averts the idea of Women Are Delicate, and Women are Irrational]
In RL:
- many women will try and protect male relatives and friends from upsetting emotional stuff. Sometimes well-intentioned, sometimes a trauma response, and sometimes demanded in a dysfunctional relationship.
- a lot of guys have 'delicate sensibilities' about women's issues. Think menstruation, pregnancy, pregnancy complications, lactation complications...and oh yeah how female sexual organs even work. whether or not these sensibilities are sheltered depends on place, people involved...and occasionally how annoying some of the people are being.
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dancing_serpent
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2023-03-28 12:53 am (UTC)Not many, admittedly (I've listed a few examples below). I think my main objection in this case is that it feels less like shielding because of, or irrespective of their gender(s), and more like she's a Caretaker shielding her Caretake-e. I'd have preferred to see that dynamic between characters on more equal footing, or with less of a nurtur-y feel.
It's like the "Oh, lets toss in a pregnant warrior! that's feminist!" in Avatar 2. Fine, you want to make a feminist movie, but just tossing in a Pregnant Badass doesn't actually fix or prove anything. Instead, maybe:
- shake up the male-warrior-leader and female-healer-priestess dynamic
- heck, stop the warrior/healer dichotomy. Stock fantasy always divides folks into warriors and (usually pacifist) healers with very few other roles, even when other roles would make sense
- introduce more gender roles and labor divisions that aren't so Eurocentric
- heck, have some really different cultural stuff: alloparenting by the whole community, potlaches, tree marriage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_marriage), living root bridges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_root_bridge)...
- stop repeating the pattern of male bully and enlightened female love interest for the guys in the Sully family
Now, examples of protective women, protected men-
A Brothers Price, since it flips gender roles does this at least once; ("No talking about miscarriages/stillbirths around the menfolk!")
In Gone With the Wind, Scarlett provides for Ashley throughout Reconstruction, and she never actually tells him about surviving the war or her dark secrets. She's also gentle with her father, after he develops, dunno, traumatic amnesia and keeps forgetting that Mrs. O'Hara is dead.
And there's a pretty good passage in the same book detailing how women are supposed to deal with some very difficult things (childbirth) while soothing their menfolk dealing with less difficult things (splinters).
Here is a Fury Road fanfic, and while no-one's innocence is completely shielded, given the setting, there are a few examples: https://archiveofourown.org/series/290441
- Furiosa protects her crew from the Organic Mechanic; including letting them sleep in her quarters when injured so no-one will mess with them [feminist pro-consent reversal of male-warrior guarding the honor of 'his' womenfolk/family/harem]
- there's a scene where a dying warboy asks one of the surviving Vulvalini to guard him while he's dying because "sometimes they do things that won't fix you anyway." [reversal of chivalrous Knight and fair maiden asking for help]
- they have to talk a female unethical doctor out of mandating a certain medical procedure for the Warboys [reversal of male doctors making hysterectomy decisions for women]
- at one point, some of the warboys want one of the Vulvalini as their new Imperator, and basically nominate her for the post [because she's a female example of a Father to His Men]; the deciding factor was her refusing to abandon someone who to die alone in the desert
The Protector of the Small quartet has Kel (a lady page/knight/squire) who takes chivalry seriously, including strenuously objecting to bullying from the older pages, which has her defending her male classmates with her martial arts skills. [usually chivalry = boys are supposed to protect the girl]
Harry Potter: this is more Fridge Logic than from the text, but I figure Hermionie (muggleborn, had to protect herself and her parents from Neo-Nazis since she was twelve, mindwiped her parents and his them in Australia) never once in the seventh book complains, all her efforts are focused on protecting her friend and the mission. Contrast with Ron who takes until halfway through the book to quit whining about life on the run. Plus she is the one who plans everything, to the point where the bys would probably be dead without her [averts the idea of Women Are Delicate, and Women are Irrational]
In RL:
- many women will try and protect male relatives and friends from upsetting emotional stuff. Sometimes well-intentioned, sometimes a trauma response, and sometimes demanded in a dysfunctional relationship.
- a lot of guys have 'delicate sensibilities' about women's issues. Think menstruation, pregnancy, pregnancy complications, lactation complications...and oh yeah how female sexual organs even work. whether or not these sensibilities are sheltered depends on place, people involved...and occasionally how annoying some of the people are being.