Rewilding Horses in Europe

[ysabetwordsmith]

While researching something else, I stumbled across this lovely project for rewilding horses in Europe.  It sounds pretty well thought out. 

Comments

[siliconshaman]

Well, I guess you need something other than domestic cattle for the wolves to live off.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Wolves and horses are pretty well matched. If they have a chance to evolve together, they should do fine; they have in the past, in various places.

Ponies, well, there's a reason they mostly develop on islands without large predators.

Re: Well ...

[siliconshaman]

I dunno... I think with some breeds of ponies they're the reason why there's no large predators on the island. Have you seen what a mule can do to a cougar? Well... we have wild ponies like that in Britain, ones that tourists are warned to stay away from for their own safety! Dartmoor ponies for example, they're just concentrated horses, with more attitude.

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I didn't know Dartmoors were so ferocious ... oh wait, kelpies hide among them, nevermind.

Re: Well ...

[siliconshaman]

Yup, them and Shelties (Shetland island ponies) You do not mess with them, they are not cute little horsies, they're a ton and a half of bad attitude in a 800lb package that will curb stomp your ass if you so much as look at them funny.

Thankfully for the rest of us, Shelties are also very lazy.

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Shelties I've seen before, mostly lazy ones. I suppose closer to the source, where there are still feral ones around, they may be more fractious.

Re: Well ...

[siliconshaman]

You're right.. most of the ones on the mainland are pulled from the wild herds and bred for docility. The ones who are running wild are not safe to get too close to. Unnatural selection working both ways..

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Like the Russian foxes. Lots of people know they domesticated foxes in a few decades by selectively breeding the ones most tolerant of humans. Few people read far enough to spot that the program also selected the most hostile foxes, and wound up with a set that went into hissing fits the moment they detected a human. 0_o

So if you have a herd of wild / feral ponies or horses, and you're picking out the most human-tolerant ones -- thus leaving the least tolerant ones running free -- then over time that free population will get less tolerant of humans, unless you backseed by releasing a tame one into it periodically.

[greghousesgf]

Except for some sexist language that was an excellent article. thank you.

[starbit]

there's a rewilding project in spain that's trying to breed cattle back into aurochs (or rather, to fit a similar ecological niche). I think they're calling them tauros

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/19/rewilding-europe-project-spain-lynx-wild-horses-black-vultures-in-eastern-spain-aoe

I can think of a few problems with this entire scheme (although overall I think it's well thought out enough that it's probably not going to cause Extra Issues) mainly that they're breeding the cows for physical durability and I'm worried that by not also selecting for skittishness/lack of trust that they're all going to get eaten. but also because the guardian article says that they're not reintroducing wolves (although I'd hope that eventually wolves do come back)

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> there's a rewilding project in spain that's trying to breed cattle back into aurochs (or rather, to fit a similar ecological niche). I think they're calling them tauros <<

Interesting.

Well, longhorns are damn similar, just smaller, and mostly descended from Spanish stock. They are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. Another good option, smaller still and now pretty rare, are Pineywoods -- also descended from Spanish stock, a heritage breed that can forage in sparse forested terrain.

>> I can think of a few problems with this entire scheme (although overall I think it's well thought out enough that it's probably not going to cause Extra Issues) mainly that they're breeding the cows for physical durability and I'm worried that by not also selecting for skittishness/lack of trust that they're all going to get eaten.<<

1) Most domestic animals will, if not raised around humans, be skittish. Some more than others. Most cows are not very friendly to begin with, just stay away from the Highlands and anything else that's especially affectionate.

2) You could always look for the opposite of the domestication cluster. If they're selecting large and physically hardy cattle, they're actually on the right track. In other words, the more something looks like an aurochs, the more likely is to act like one too.

>> but also because the guardian article says that they're not reintroducing wolves (although I'd hope that eventually wolves do come back) <<

Yeah, no, you can't have healthy prey without a good predator population. They'd get better luck just reintroducing the wolves. Look how well Yellowstone rebounded once they did that.