A Processing Spectrum

[ysabetwordsmith]

Food appears on a spectrum from unprocessed (which is good for you) through lightly and moderately processed to ultra-processed (which can kill you).  I just found an article that includes a great food processing spectrum from a whole apple to an apple-flavored gummi bear.  :D  To eat healthier, simply lean toward the whole, unprocessed end of the spectrum as much as possible.  That doesn't mean you can never enjoy apple pie or gummi bears, just that eating whole apples more often correlates with better health.

Comments

[fianna9]

My issue with what they said was about fresh vs frozen on vegetables. If the fresh are local and in season sure; if you're talking about something out of season that was transported long distances the basic frozen vegetables will likely have as many or more nutrients. The frozen will also be cheaper when out of season.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

A lot depends on the type of processing. Cheap frozen vegetables will lose more than expensive flash-frozen ones. Some freeze-dried herbs are better than ordinary dried herbs.

Much also depends on the quality of fresh produce, which quite frankly often isn't worth eating anymore. There's a world of difference between an organic, heirloom tomato and a commercial one with the flavor and nutrition of styrofoam.

It is likely better to buy high-quality frozen produce than low-quality fresh, but given equal quality, fresh is better than frozen for most purposes. For some things, like making sauces or ice cream, you actually want to capitalize on freezing's breakage of cell walls.

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[fianna9]

Agreed, I should have specified on the type of freezing or processing. Type of processing and the quality of it a big thing. It's like fish: a lot of it is flash frozen out on the boat which means it's safer since that kills parasites and helps prevent rot. If your like my grandfather who raised cattle having that meat fresh will be best but having it in the freezer will be better for later.

It's one of the things a lot of the raw diets don't consider. Some things like tomatoes can be more nutritious or easier to digest when cooked. There are also a few things out there you need to cook to make them safe to eat (looking at you cashews).

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[ysabetwordsmith]

There is a small but important group of foods for which processing makes them safe and/or more nutritious. Frex, unprocessed corn is okay in moderation but binds some nutrients, while nixtamalized corn (e.g. hominy, masa) makes more nutrients available. Fermented anything is rich in probiotics (unless cooked) and often more digestible. I have further observed that it's dose-sensitive not based on amount but on number of cultures. A 5-culture yogurt is more productive than a one-culture yogurt. It is advisable to find some cultured foods you like and consume them frequently.

However, ultra-processed anything is at least moderately inadvisable, and some of it is downright dangerous. I am generally quite dubious of ultra-processed things, like "skim milk," which claim to be "healthy." That's the sort of thing where 10 or 20 years down the road, scientists will figure out what should've been obvious. Take all the hoohaw about plant-based meats. They're not healthy. They're meat-flavored donuts. You want a plant-based meat substitute? Try beans'n'rice or mushroom caps. Tofu, while processed, seems to be okay because it is a cultured food -- if you're not allergic to soy, a skyrocketing problem.

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[kengr]

I was going to comment on the "has to be processed to be edible" stuff but I got beaten to it. :-)

Still, the classics like manioc are hard to beat as examples.

As for stuff like gummi bears, a friend coined a phrase (as a joke about some product) "food-like substance" that would seem to apply..

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[ysabetwordsmith]

My mocking phrase used to be "Artificial pasteurized processed cheese food product."

Now I usually say, "And don't call it food. It's not food. It's Chow."

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[kengr]

A *long* time ago, some of us speculated about getting Purina to make up an order of "People chow". They already make it for chimps, so...

We figured the minimum order would be way too huge though.

Our thought was to put (properly labeled) bowls of it in the con suite and see how they did.

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[ysabetwordsmith]

It's not hard to duplicate the look of Poorina Bachelor Chow with party mix.

[fuzzyred]

I like that spectrum, it makes the concept easy to understand.

I am a little confused as to why "apple" and "apple slices" are two different things though; I always slice my apples before eating them, since I find I get more of the apple that way.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Apple vs. apple slices is a way to show that we use at least minimal processing on most things we eat, but the low end doesn't change the nature of the food -- even if you choose to remove some things like the peel and/or core, as many people do. The flesh of the apple is still fresh and alive.

Moving along, applesauce has two major changes: cooking, and that makes it slushy. But it's much easier to preserve in that form, and it also makes a great cooking ingredient -- you can use it instead of sugar in baked goods or cold water in gelatin desserts, improving the nutrition of both.

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[fuzzyred]

Ohhhh, that makes sense now. "Processing" as doing *something* to the food but not necessarily something that changes it in a meaningful way. I'm so used to thinking of "processed food" as things like crackers and fruit roll ups and oreos that I overlooked it's simpler meaning.

Huh, I didn't know those things about applesauce. Those may be useful in the future. :)

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[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Ohhhh, that makes sense now. "Processing" as doing *something* to the food but not necessarily something that changes it in a meaningful way. <<

Exactly. Most people don't think of basic stuff like cooking as a process, but it is; it changes the food.

>> I'm so used to thinking of "processed food" as things like crackers and fruit roll ups and oreos that I overlooked it's simpler meaning.<<

Those are ultra-processed foods and the difference matters a lot.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/01/29/processed-vs-ultra-processed-food-and-why-it-matters-to-your-health

It also depends on how exactly the food is handled. A loaf of bread is pretty thoroughly processed compared to raw whole wheat. But a homemade loaf of whole-grain bread is still a fairly healthy thing to eat. A supermarket loaf with lots of additives probably is not, and something like Wonderbread definitely is not.

I actually started making sloppy joe filling and spaghetti sauce from scratch, and freezing them, because at the time it was impossible to find those things that weren't lightly-flavored high-fructose corn syrup. :P Basically, I took a grocery bag of fresh produce and crocked it down all day to make the desired form. Freezing that in tubs gave us homemade convenience meals. :D Also the sandwich filling can be converted to spaghetti sauce by adding extra tomato sauce.

>> Huh, I didn't know those things about applesauce. Those may be useful in the future. :) <<

This is a modern recipe:
https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/food-cooking/recipes/a11239/homemade-applesauce/

The old-fashioned approach required neither sugar nor spices, but instead cooked down the apples for a moderate (applesauce) or long (apple butter) time. The closest I could find was this:
https://riverreporter.com/stories/apple-butter-bliss,40074

Bear in mind that apples have different qualities. For sauce you want a mealy apple that breaks up easily. For pie, you want either firm apples that don't break down, or firm ones with one mealy thrown in as a binder. If you use mealy apples you will wind up with applesauce pie.

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[fuzzyred]

All of this makes a lot of sense. I also like the idea of homemade spaghetti sauce and sloppy joe filling, although I'm sure I use enough of either to make freezing big batches worth while.

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[ysabetwordsmith]

A batch of sandwich filling is a lot smaller than a batch of spaghetti sauce, and can be converted into sauce if desired. A small batch of the filling only uses 3 pounds of meat, which makes 6-8 cartons depending on the size you choose.

Think about how often you want a homemade convenience meal. For some folks that might be once a week, for others only once a month. Then plan accordingly.

There are lots of other homemade convenience meals, these are just the ones I like.

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[fuzzyred]

That is a very good idea. I definitely need to go hunting for homemade convenience meals. I typically cook once a week, which works okay, but often leaves me scrambling for meals on the weekend. Seems like have a fee homecooked things ready to go would be beneficial.

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[ysabetwordsmith]

Basically, think about the kind of things you like to eat, or want to eat more of. Then consider what can be made in big batches to reheat, freeze, can, or otherwise save for later. Another approach is to make dry mixes where you only need to add a few ingredients (like water or milk, egg, etc.) before cooking.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/convenience-foods-zm0z15onzsto/

https://www.hillbillyhousewife.com/homemadeconveniencefoods.htm

https://www.oakhillhomestead.com/2014/03/homemade-convenience-food-series.html

https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/how-to-make-your-own-convenience-food/

https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/freezer-meal-recipes/

https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/soups-you-can-freeze/

https://www.theyummylife.com/Instant_Dry_Soup_Mixes

https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/cookies-keep-freezer/

https://welcometothefamilytable.com/freezer-meal-cookbooks/

https://www.sixsistersstuff.com/100-of-the-best-instant-pot-freezer-meals/

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[fuzzyred]

That's a good idea :) Thanks for all the links, they are going to be very helpful!

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[ysabetwordsmith]

You're welcome! I'm happy I could help.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe they're talking about presliced in fruit cups instead of fresh? I know apple's do that chemical reaction thing once the insides are exposed to air...

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

Possibly.

Normal apples -- modern ones -- oxydize at moderate speed. Our birdgift tree produces apples that oxydize so fast it's visible, and turn quite a dark mahogany after just a few minutes. There are frankenapples that don't brown at all, so you can't tell how stale they are. >_< The browning process can also be slowed or stopped with acid, like lemon juice.

[erulisse]

Being aware of this from a harm reduction point of view can also be useful as any step toward the less processed end of the spectrum is likely to be more healthy (so frozen vegetables versus canned for instance).

I often think about this when I'm in a situation where fast food or other convenience food is inevitable (while traveling for example). This tends to lead to choosing subway and chipotle over McD's or similar when possible.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Being aware of this from a harm reduction point of view can also be useful as any step toward the less processed end of the spectrum is likely to be more healthy (so frozen vegetables versus canned for instance). <<

Also within a category: a frozen protein bowl with recognizable legumes and chopped vegetables is likely better than a frozen lasagna.

>> I often think about this when I'm in a situation where fast food or other convenience food is inevitable (while traveling for example). This tends to lead to choosing subway and chipotle over McD's or similar when possible. <<

Sensible. <3 Naf Naf. When I was little, Jimmy John's used to put alfalfa sprouts on their subs, which was a reason to stop there. I've only been a few times after they switched to lettuce like everyone else. Alfalfa sprouts are much more expensive than lettuce, but also much more nutritious.