>> I am so fucking tired of this idea that the solution to the fact that people are different from each other and have different needs is pretending that isn't true.<<
I agree.
>> Like, I don't know how to make accessibility-by-options work when we're so bad at providing equal opportunity for multiple options, <<
Separate and equal works great, as long as people want to make that happen.
Say you're hosting a big family event, and you want to encourage as many people to attend as possible. You know some people have special dietary needs, and others won't bother coming if they can't have Gramma's peanut butter fried chicken. So you break up the space to provide more eating stations, and then everyone can eat sooner with shorter lines too. This also assists the process of creating boisterous and quiet areas, so the kids can run around screaming and the introverts can gather in the moss garden. The goal is for everyone to have a good time, so you provide plenty of options which they can freely choose between and even move between. More people will attend and enjoy this event than if you only catered to one or a few needs.
The problem is below the providence of options. The people is that people like to hurt and rob each other. They don't want to make things separate and equal. They're happy with the separate part because that makes it easier to take advantage of others they have decided to hate or disdain. It's the equal part they refuse to do. Fixing a moral problem is a lot harder than fixing a resource problem.
>> but that doesn't make it any more possible to use the exact same methods with every student, doesn't make it possible for a severe dog allergy and a person with a guide dog to not have problems, doesn't change the fact that people can't always manage in a space with lots of people. Doesn't change the fact that kids need to make noise and some can't tolerate it. <<
Exactly! A lot of people keep harping on the ideal of "universal design" but refuse to acknowledge that design cannot be universal because people have different and often conflicting needs. Too often, ADA just changes who gets screwed. >_<
>> We've gotta figure out a way to get humans to deal with the other without being awful, because "stuff everyone together and pretend that will work" is not workable. <<
Yeah. The problem with using force is that it's like a drug. You have to keep using it, or things will get a lot worse, but it's expensive and often you need more and more of it. I mean, look, we forced children of different ethnicities to attend the same schools, and it did get children of color into somewhat better schools. But it wasted hours of time and they mostly still hated each other. Then when they grew up and it got harder to force them together, they sprang apart like oil and water.
The most effective methods I've seen use bait to attract people who like -- or at least are open to -- the idea of multiculturalism. Among the best is affordable housing that's half native citizens and half immigrants. It helps the immigrants integrate faster and gives the native citizens a look at the wider world. Everyone wins.
>> Also the idea that people can be less smart is really hard to internalize, even though I know I'm very smart, it's funny. <<
Too true. I know they're often stupid, I see evidence of it all around me. But I can't think like them, so that makes some things hard to predict. Like, I know their vocabularies are a lot smaller, but I don't know which words will make them go "Huh?" Just that it's a lot of words.
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dancing_serpent
Re: Intelligence is confusing
Date: 2021-07-02 01:30 am (UTC)I agree.
>> Like, I don't know how to make accessibility-by-options work when we're so bad at providing equal opportunity for multiple options, <<
Separate and equal works great, as long as people want to make that happen.
Say you're hosting a big family event, and you want to encourage as many people to attend as possible. You know some people have special dietary needs, and others won't bother coming if they can't have Gramma's peanut butter fried chicken. So you break up the space to provide more eating stations, and then everyone can eat sooner with shorter lines too. This also assists the process of creating boisterous and quiet areas, so the kids can run around screaming and the introverts can gather in the moss garden. The goal is for everyone to have a good time, so you provide plenty of options which they can freely choose between and even move between. More people will attend and enjoy this event than if you only catered to one or a few needs.
The problem is below the providence of options. The people is that people like to hurt and rob each other. They don't want to make things separate and equal. They're happy with the separate part because that makes it easier to take advantage of others they have decided to hate or disdain. It's the equal part they refuse to do. Fixing a moral problem is a lot harder than fixing a resource problem.
>> but that doesn't make it any more possible to use the exact same methods with every student, doesn't make it possible for a severe dog allergy and a person with a guide dog to not have problems, doesn't change the fact that people can't always manage in a space with lots of people. Doesn't change the fact that kids need to make noise and some can't tolerate it. <<
Exactly! A lot of people keep harping on the ideal of "universal design" but refuse to acknowledge that design cannot be universal because people have different and often conflicting needs. Too often, ADA just changes who gets screwed. >_<
>> We've gotta figure out a way to get humans to deal with the other without being awful, because "stuff everyone together and pretend that will work" is not workable. <<
Yeah. The problem with using force is that it's like a drug. You have to keep using it, or things will get a lot worse, but it's expensive and often you need more and more of it. I mean, look, we forced children of different ethnicities to attend the same schools, and it did get children of color into somewhat better schools. But it wasted hours of time and they mostly still hated each other. Then when they grew up and it got harder to force them together, they sprang apart like oil and water.
The most effective methods I've seen use bait to attract people who like -- or at least are open to -- the idea of multiculturalism. Among the best is affordable housing that's half native citizens and half immigrants. It helps the immigrants integrate faster and gives the native citizens a look at the wider world. Everyone wins.
>> Also the idea that people can be less smart is really hard to internalize, even though I know I'm very smart, it's funny. <<
Too true. I know they're often stupid, I see evidence of it all around me. But I can't think like them, so that makes some things hard to predict. Like, I know their vocabularies are a lot smaller, but I don't know which words will make them go "Huh?" Just that it's a lot of words.