Bras Are Broken
Jan. 28th, 2021 11:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis video explains a bunch of reasons why bras are broken. Almost the entire industry -- less a few small, expensive, women-owned bra shops -- abuses women* by design.
* Everyone who wears a bra, which can be any sex/gender, but most bra consumers are women.
Well, fuck that. This is why I spent several years arguing with my mother about bras. I didn't want to wear something that hurt all day long, and after a few attempts revealed that nobody really made a bra for fairly big boobs on a tiny ribcage, I concluded the problem was unsolvable with available resources and refused to wear them any more. "Your breasts will sag." "Yes, Mom, that's what breasts do at the bottom of a gravity well." Even as a tween, I knew I wasn't going to have Luney boobs forever. Trying to defy gravity didn't seem like a good reason to be in pain all day long.
It's that simple. You can REFUSE to hurt yourself. It will sometimes enrage people, but most people will just scream at you; they're unlikely to hit you all day long like the bra does. If more women refused to hurt themselves with bras, then either the industry would evolve or it would die, as capitalism says bad businesses should. There are many reasons not to wear bras.
Now, if YOU WANT to wear a bra, because it's more comfortable or whatever, that's fine. Do that. If it's not perfectly comfortable, then you could visit a high-end bra shop for a fitting and examine some of the features available. Frex, there are seamless bras if seams irritate you, and there are wide padded straps if narrow ones dig in, and there are natural fabrics if you hate synthetics (or vice versa).
If you choose to wear bras, a professional fitting is a good idea. Better yet, get several and compare them, trying on bras in each store. Given the wide variation in results of even the professional fittings, and the downright extreme variation of fit in different bras that are allegedly the same, empirical evidence demonstrates that bra sizing is bullshit. By the way, if you were told your breast size never changes after puberty, that's bullshit too. It can change due to weight changes, pregnancy, health conditions, menopause, and oh yes, gravity. Measure periodically for best comfort. So the best way to get a decent fit is to get several professional opinions and spend at least a day trying on 20 or so bras. O_O For fucksake, people.
The only breast support I have found reasonably comfy, and it actually is all-day comfy, is a bodice. (I wouldn't want to wear one all the time, but I have known folks who do.) You can find these at Renaissance faires or kink shops, and I know people who wear them for comfort. There are also (usually strapless) bodice-bras, and that was the closest I came to off-the-shelf bras that worked, although they left most of my boobs hanging out the top. If you have big boobs or just want yours to stay the fuck put, investigate bodices. Most vendors will be happy to help you explore your options. How tight you lace it is entirely up to you based on how much shaping you want (and whether you prefer to breathe horizontally or vertically). You can also make your own by drafting a pattern, you'll just need to tweak that until it fits like you want. Buying a good bodice pattern will also make it easier. A corset is a similar concept. Typically a bodice has strap-sleeves and a corset has boning, but there are variations so it's more a spectrum than pigeonholes. Like a lot of things.
EDIT 1/29/21:snippy recommends A Bra That Fits. It has a fairly detailed bra sizing calculator and a wiki about bras.
Bra alternatives for extra breast/nipple coverage:
* Pockets! Safari and guayabera shirts have pleated pockets for maximum coverage and cargo capacity. Some coveralls do too. Great choices for butchy folks with boobs.
* Ruffles -- for the girly girls who don't want to show off their girls.
* Nursing tops. These often have overlaps to help conceal leakage for breastfeeding/chestfeeding people. If you don't need the hole(s) you can just sew that shut.
* Binders -- for when you have boobs but wish you didn't.
* Loose cardigans, shawls / travel wraps, jackets, etc. A second layer provides moderate to strong concealment.
* Convertible travel clothes can be worn many different ways and often conceal the chest under loose folds.
Another issue is the cost. Bras aren't cheap. Good bras can be ruinously expensive. The average is about $50/bra with a range of $30-300. If you want a fresh, non-sweaty bra every day and you do laundry once a week, then you need 8 bras (one to wear while you wash the rest). If you have dresses or tops that require different bras and/or you want different colors/patterns to choose from, you may need a lot more. How long does a bra last? The recommended lifespan is only one year, because they take a beating which causes them to lose their stretch and shape. So the average bra wearer would spend $400/year minimum, with a range of $240-$2400. Remember, if you need or want variety, it costs a lot more. Do you really want to spend that kind of money, every year, for something that usually hurts and does a shitty job? I don't. Fuck it.
Not to mention the challenge of trying to find a nude bra if you are darker than a natural tan. (Nude means clothing or accessories that match your skin tone, so they seem to disappear; it does not mean peach-colored.) Again, there are a few companies, mostly owned by women of color, that offer a really wide range of nude tones and/or custom dye work, but they are harder to find and more expensive. Just an extra addition of insult to injury for boob owners of color.
There is a huge opportunity here for someone -- preferably a breast owner -- to develop better bras, better sizing, and better service. Given that 80% of women are wearing the wrong size bra, that bar is lying in a pretty deep ditch. >_<
* Everyone who wears a bra, which can be any sex/gender, but most bra consumers are women.
Well, fuck that. This is why I spent several years arguing with my mother about bras. I didn't want to wear something that hurt all day long, and after a few attempts revealed that nobody really made a bra for fairly big boobs on a tiny ribcage, I concluded the problem was unsolvable with available resources and refused to wear them any more. "Your breasts will sag." "Yes, Mom, that's what breasts do at the bottom of a gravity well." Even as a tween, I knew I wasn't going to have Luney boobs forever. Trying to defy gravity didn't seem like a good reason to be in pain all day long.
It's that simple. You can REFUSE to hurt yourself. It will sometimes enrage people, but most people will just scream at you; they're unlikely to hit you all day long like the bra does. If more women refused to hurt themselves with bras, then either the industry would evolve or it would die, as capitalism says bad businesses should. There are many reasons not to wear bras.
Now, if YOU WANT to wear a bra, because it's more comfortable or whatever, that's fine. Do that. If it's not perfectly comfortable, then you could visit a high-end bra shop for a fitting and examine some of the features available. Frex, there are seamless bras if seams irritate you, and there are wide padded straps if narrow ones dig in, and there are natural fabrics if you hate synthetics (or vice versa).
If you choose to wear bras, a professional fitting is a good idea. Better yet, get several and compare them, trying on bras in each store. Given the wide variation in results of even the professional fittings, and the downright extreme variation of fit in different bras that are allegedly the same, empirical evidence demonstrates that bra sizing is bullshit. By the way, if you were told your breast size never changes after puberty, that's bullshit too. It can change due to weight changes, pregnancy, health conditions, menopause, and oh yes, gravity. Measure periodically for best comfort. So the best way to get a decent fit is to get several professional opinions and spend at least a day trying on 20 or so bras. O_O For fucksake, people.
The only breast support I have found reasonably comfy, and it actually is all-day comfy, is a bodice. (I wouldn't want to wear one all the time, but I have known folks who do.) You can find these at Renaissance faires or kink shops, and I know people who wear them for comfort. There are also (usually strapless) bodice-bras, and that was the closest I came to off-the-shelf bras that worked, although they left most of my boobs hanging out the top. If you have big boobs or just want yours to stay the fuck put, investigate bodices. Most vendors will be happy to help you explore your options. How tight you lace it is entirely up to you based on how much shaping you want (and whether you prefer to breathe horizontally or vertically). You can also make your own by drafting a pattern, you'll just need to tweak that until it fits like you want. Buying a good bodice pattern will also make it easier. A corset is a similar concept. Typically a bodice has strap-sleeves and a corset has boning, but there are variations so it's more a spectrum than pigeonholes. Like a lot of things.
EDIT 1/29/21:
snippy recommends A Bra That Fits. It has a fairly detailed bra sizing calculator and a wiki about bras.Bra alternatives for extra breast/nipple coverage:
* Pockets! Safari and guayabera shirts have pleated pockets for maximum coverage and cargo capacity. Some coveralls do too. Great choices for butchy folks with boobs.
* Ruffles -- for the girly girls who don't want to show off their girls.
* Nursing tops. These often have overlaps to help conceal leakage for breastfeeding/chestfeeding people. If you don't need the hole(s) you can just sew that shut.
* Binders -- for when you have boobs but wish you didn't.
* Loose cardigans, shawls / travel wraps, jackets, etc. A second layer provides moderate to strong concealment.
* Convertible travel clothes can be worn many different ways and often conceal the chest under loose folds.
Another issue is the cost. Bras aren't cheap. Good bras can be ruinously expensive. The average is about $50/bra with a range of $30-300. If you want a fresh, non-sweaty bra every day and you do laundry once a week, then you need 8 bras (one to wear while you wash the rest). If you have dresses or tops that require different bras and/or you want different colors/patterns to choose from, you may need a lot more. How long does a bra last? The recommended lifespan is only one year, because they take a beating which causes them to lose their stretch and shape. So the average bra wearer would spend $400/year minimum, with a range of $240-$2400. Remember, if you need or want variety, it costs a lot more. Do you really want to spend that kind of money, every year, for something that usually hurts and does a shitty job? I don't. Fuck it.
Not to mention the challenge of trying to find a nude bra if you are darker than a natural tan. (Nude means clothing or accessories that match your skin tone, so they seem to disappear; it does not mean peach-colored.) Again, there are a few companies, mostly owned by women of color, that offer a really wide range of nude tones and/or custom dye work, but they are harder to find and more expensive. Just an extra addition of insult to injury for boob owners of color.
There is a huge opportunity here for someone -- preferably a breast owner -- to develop better bras, better sizing, and better service. Given that 80% of women are wearing the wrong size bra, that bar is lying in a pretty deep ditch. >_<
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 08:18 am (UTC)YOU'RE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT.
BRAS SUCK AND THEY HURT AND THEY'RE CLASSIST AND EXPENSIVE AND boy I really don't like them.
I only ever wear one lately to work out in if Etty's gonna make me run or bounce.
Free the nipple!
Thoughts
Date: 2021-01-29 08:22 am (UTC)Wearing a bra to exercise makes sense if bouncing boobs are more uncomfortable than a bra. Sport bras were among the things I tried, but the extra-heavy underband made breathing too difficult.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 08:19 am (UTC)Yes ...
Date: 2021-01-29 08:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 09:34 am (UTC)One of my priorities after the family gets vaccinated is "find a good bra shop that does fittings and get one or two that actually fit well." (Going without isn't comfortable for me most of the time.)
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 10:36 am (UTC)I'm 5'6" (which isn't exactly short) and straps that fit can be a real issue!
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 04:30 pm (UTC)Wow!
Date: 2021-01-29 06:40 pm (UTC)That's fascinating. Probably wouldn't work on my fussy skin, but I agree that it's a clever technological innovation.
>> (I like it well enough, but I refused long ago to wear bras unless I had to) <<
Go you!
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-29 04:44 pm (UTC)I know a friend of mine in WA state who doesn't wear bras and I thought, until recently, that she was insane. But then I'd not heard her complain about not wearing one, so I wondered, then, if it was possible.
-T~
Thoughts
Date: 2021-01-30 11:15 am (UTC)Bummer. That happens to some folks, though.
>> Not to mention we sweat there, and it's gross. So, if there's anyway to have someting other than powder (Which lasts, sure, but is still an expense(, we might try it.<<
Some of the other options I listed are worth trying, but most of them cost money. Keep them in mind for future reference. A scouting expedition to get fitted at several places would be great because you could practice navigation and other independence skills then.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-30 01:11 am (UTC)I can gripe all day about bloody lace where there's no reason for lace, or bows and frills and ugh. Or white bras with the brand name in black on the waistband (why!?).
Another item for your list is corsets. A lady on youtube tried it. Looked surprisingly comfortable. Might need to adjust your wardrobe...
Least favourite thing about bra-buying is that you end up feeling shit about yourself, not the industry.
Thoughts
Date: 2021-01-30 01:54 am (UTC)That makes sense.
>> Bras-proper when I want to fill out my shirts (started noticing that you gotta pay attention to what you're wearing when you try on fitted clothing). <<
Or buy clothes that fit the body you have naturally, rather than trying to reshape your body to fit the clothes. That's one of the biggest perks of learning how to sew, and especially, learning how to draft patterns (which is not hard unless it's a very fiddly fitted garment, although more seams do give you more control points).
>> I can gripe all day about bloody lace where there's no reason for lace, or bows and frills and ugh. <<
Yeah. I have this problem with clothes in general. They put all kinds of nonessential decorations, plus extra seams or parts like sleeves that are out of proportion, and it's getting almost impossible to find things I can wear at all.
>> Or white bras with the brand name in black on the waistband (why!?).<<
As with most other conspicuous brand names: because they view customers as signposts with feet. If you strip off in a changing room, they want other people to see you advertising the product. Which is obnoxious and a reason not to buy those things.
I bet if people wrote FUCK in sharpie in front of the brand name, and that happened enough, then the practice would become much rarer.
>>Another item for your list is corsets.<<
I put those in the same category as bodices. The main differences are that bodices usually have sleeve-straps and corsets usually have boning, but it's not an absolute. Both are torso shaping garments that lift breasts from underneath, supporting the weight on your hips instead of hanging it from your shoulders.
>> Least favourite thing about bra-buying is that you end up feeling shit about yourself, not the industry.<<
That depends on the person. I suspect one reason my mother eventually gave up trying to force me into a bra was that I never hesitated to list, loudly, all the fucked-up things I observed. It made the bra department staff very uncomfortable. Especially when I went into, "These things hurt. I don't want to hurt myself! Don't you have any products with competent ergonomics so they don't hurt to wear?" "Uh ... a certain amount of discomfort is normal." "Well that's bullshit!"
For people who feel bad about themselves when bra shopping, practice criticizing the product, not yourself:
* You are not too fat or busty. The bra is too small for you.
* You are not flat-chested. The cups are too big for you.
* Your skin is not too sensitive. The bra is scratchy and badly made.
* You are not stupid. The sizing is illogical.
* You are not too dark. The "nude" bra is for a white chick and the store should damn well have a minimum of 5 nude shades in a supermarket or 10 in a major department store or lingerie shop.
* You are not too dumpy for a sexy bra. The selection is inferior. You deserve hawt underwear if you want it.
* You are not a cheapskate. Bras are too expensive for everyday essentials.
And so on. Make a list in advance if you want, or write down your self-critical phrases at the store and then afterwards deconstruct each one to reframe it blaming the product instead of yourself.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-01-30 11:36 pm (UTC)I should give it a go. Sounds a lot more convenient than reshaping your body, and the clothes'll probably be of better quality (nicer fabric, last longer...).
>>I bet if people wrote FUCK in sharpie in front of the brand name, and that happened enough, then the practice would become much rarer.<<
Haha, I wish. They don't get (or maybe they do) that if a product's good, customers will talk about it. And often you pay extra for free advertising (thinking about branded T-shirts here)... Selfish %#@&-s!!
>>I put [corsets] in the same category as bodices.<<
Ah, I see. (Whoops). Know a tad more about corsets than bodices, but might have a look at the latter (esp. since you reccomended it).
>> I suspect one reason my mother eventually gave up trying to force me into a bra was that I never hesitated to list, loudly, all the fucked-up things I observed.<<
Good on you. That's bloody awesome. Well, not the state of the bra-industry but damn.
>>For people who feel bad about themselves when bra shopping, practice criticizing the product, not yourself<< and >>Make a list in advance if you want, or write down your self-critical phrases at the store and then afterwards deconstruct each one to reframe it blaming the product instead of yourself.<<
Thank you. That's great advice. I'm going to give it a shot.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2021-01-31 04:25 am (UTC)I made you a link cloud:
https://ysabetwordsmith.dreamwidth.org/12842492.html
>>Ah, I see. (Whoops). Know a tad more about corsets than bodices, but might have a look at the latter (esp. since you reccomended it).<<
If you look at the patterns you'll see the word usage is nearly random. :/
>> Thank you. That's great advice. I'm going to give it a shot. <<
Yay! I'm happy I could give you new ideas.
Also ...
Date: 2021-01-30 02:03 am (UTC)https://www.therapistaid.com/images/content/worksheet/putting-thoughts-on-trial/preview.png
https://www.therapistaid.com/worksheets/socratic-questioning.pdf
https://www.therapistaid.com/images/content/worksheet/countering-negative-thoughts-thought-log/preview.png
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cb61b1e29f2cc34d16e2bd6/1606602474967-XLU38Z2O1RWKETSUYNNM/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIweTTtm3xiRoej5hiMLvXN7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTm26jiDkvkMqdSwsC3HfVsV8OTsnTfhUODADKyRZWAHTd5QL_QTfeV2A17cHXr-Nlh/20201127-challenge-automatic-negative-thoughts-worksheet-thumbnail.png
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/0ed5fc_1cc881a6cecd439a9ac223a64b82fde8~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_710,h_509,al_c,lg_1,q_90/0ed5fc_1cc881a6cecd439a9ac223a64b82fde8~mv2.webp
It's all about learning to question the facts, your thoughts, your feelings, and your interpretations -- and then think of other options.
Well, that and recognizing that sometimes, other people are trying to screw you and will lie about it, like most of the bra industry. >_
Re: Also ...
Date: 2021-01-30 11:38 pm (UTC)Re: Also ...
Date: 2021-01-30 11:46 pm (UTC)Free ALL the brains! \o/
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-30 07:41 pm (UTC)[Common] feature [of advertising], not a bug. If you feel like s***, you'll spend money of stuff you don't need, that will theoretically make you not feel like s***.
In this case, more clothing, and more expensive clothing, but possibly other same-brand fancy geegaws.
Also note all the beauty ads for makeup and stuff - we'll never look like the models, but we can try if only we spend tons of money on the advertised products.
Yes ...
Date: 2021-01-30 08:17 pm (UTC)Also worth considering would be studying how advertising works, and how brainwashing works, both of which make those things less effective.
https://appliedpsychologydegree.usc.edu/blog/thinking-vs-feeling-the-psychology-of-advertising/
https://www.vieodesign.com/blog/new-data-why-people-hate-ads
https://coschedule.com/blog/psychology-in-advertising/
https://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=university_honors_program
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/examples-manipulative-advertising-11668.html
https://selfdefinition.org/science/Robert-Anton-Wilson-Prometheus-Rising.pdf
https://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-and-Avoid-Brainwashing
This anticapitalist message is brought to you by your friendly neighborhood gift economist.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2021-01-31 02:58 am (UTC)I actually don't remember the last time I bought something just off an ad...maybe a candy bar?
I've also deliberatly avoided getting obsessive about my appearence... that ain't gonna be good for nobody. (And won't work, will trash the planet, and will cost me far too much money that I don't have...)
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2021-01-31 04:36 am (UTC)Same here. I find almost all ads to be grating and offputting. I have doubtless avoided many more products than I have purchased because of ads.
Also, ads greatly contribute to unselling me on the entire medical industry. It really emphasizes how dangerous -- and sometimes lethal -- the products are. No, I'd rather keep my current problems for free than pay money to destroy my immune system or get blood clots in vital organs. >_<
>> I actually don't remember the last time I bought something just off an ad...maybe a candy bar? <<
I never click on ads online. Once or twice a year, I see something that interest me. I run a separate search instead. Do Not Feed The Trolls.
The last several items I have bought based on ads have been foods advertised in our food magazines. I remember seeing the CarbSmart caramel swirl bars when we had only had the chocolate and vanilla ones. We tracked them down, and yeah, those are great.
The only ads that really interest me are:
* same or related topic that I'm looking at
* tell me a thing exists of a type I commonly like
* show me a new thing by a brand, writer, etc. I already like
* tell me a product has been invented to solve a problem and its features
* and my favorite: movie trailers! If I am in a theater, I would love to see upcoming flix. <3
Almost nobody makes ads like that -- except trailers -- because normal people don't buy them. Normal people like to sold sizzle. I can only be interested by selling steak.
>>I've also deliberatly avoided getting obsessive about my appearence... that ain't gonna be good for nobody. (And won't work, will trash the planet, and will cost me far too much money that I don't have...)<<
Go you!
It enrages people, but I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, my body hair is asshole repellent, and people commenting on my size/shape will get treated to a rant about America's fucked up beauty standards, mental health, foodstream, urban planning, race relations, fashion industry, and whatever else I can dump off the truck before they flee.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-30 11:40 pm (UTC)Yes ...
Date: 2021-01-31 05:23 am (UTC)See elsethread for my links about ways to break advertising and brainwashing.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-01-30 01:52 am (UTC)Link?
Date: 2021-01-30 02:05 am (UTC)Re: Link?
Date: 2021-01-30 02:28 am (UTC)Re: Link?
Date: 2021-01-30 02:57 am (UTC)Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 06:47 am (UTC)The bras I hate most are underwire. My mother swears by them, and she kept pushing me into them, saying they gave "support". Damnit, I do not want f'ing gun turrets on my chest to start with. I have had newish underwires cut through the casing and gouge a hole under my arm, or under my boob.
They don't make true motion damping sports bras in 44 G. The sports bras that properly stop the bounce only go up to a C cup, and stop at 40 for a band size. Ugh. Also, the bigger the boobs, the more a "properly fitted" bra costs, nd the more they accentuate rather than minimize your chest.
Honestly? If I had a few thousand to blow, I'd have them removed or reduced. I'm never going to use them for the original purpose, and they just get in my way.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 07:30 am (UTC)You might consider investing in a custom bra or making your own. A sports bra should be a lot simpler to make than a typical fitted bra because sports bras have fewer pieces to assemble. Most consist primarily of an underband and a lot of stretchy material.
>>Honestly? If I had a few thousand to blow, I'd have them removed or reduced. I'm never going to use them for the original purpose, and they just get in my way. <<
That's probably a good investment. You could save up for it. If you have insurance, though, check that, because more of them are required to cover breast alternations for practical rather than cosmetic reasons.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 08:09 am (UTC)I may have to, but sewing stretch fabric is a PITA
If I was working, maybe. Right now I'm living off of UI and my savings. Also, last I checked, the insurance companies demand that you try to address the problem by losing weight first, including lots of exercises that I literally can't do, never mind that all that would do is shave one, maybe two, cup sizes, and usually I rebound plus 20 pounds after every diet (which only maybe loses ten pounds), even the moderate ones.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 08:31 am (UTC)I have found it easier by hand than by machine, but then that's true for sewing in general. The difference in difficulty is much more dramatic with materials that pesky in a machine though.
>> If I was working, maybe. Right now I'm living off of UI and my savings. <<
That sucks. Maybe someday.
>>Also, last I checked, the insurance companies demand that you try to address the problem by losing weight first, <<
That's evil, but well, it's "Insurance."
>> usually I rebound plus 20 pounds after every diet (which only maybe loses ten pounds), even the moderate ones. <<
That's normal. About 95% of people who lose weight, soon gain back more than they lost. It would be much safer and healthier if people simply avoided actively making it worse. >_<
The main ways to take it off and keep it off are major lifestyle changes such as:
* becoming vegetarian or vegan, as it's much harder to overeat plants than animal products
* cooking everything for yourself, from scratch, which avoids most body-wrecking additives
* going carless, and burning calories by walking or biking everywhere
* moving to a rural area, where upkeep of house and yard naturally requires more activity
* taking a more active dayjob, which can make a really large difference going from say a desk job to construction work
* starting a vigorous hobby like mountain climbing, and doing a lot of it
Those aren't choices everyone is even capable of making, and most of them are minimally compatible with modern life. Hence the dismal, barely even statistically valid 5% success rate of weight loss. America has designed a society and food system that makes people fat and unhealthy, then blames the victims and often refuses them health care for the system-caused problems.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 07:32 am (UTC)Heh. Yeah, I'm not going to have a lot of luck with that. Too many wrong methods, too many failures
>> The main ways to take it off and keep it off are major lifestyle changes such as:
>>* becoming vegetarian or vegan, as it's much harder to overeat plants than animal products <<
Yeah, no. I have too many allergies to critical vegetables (like soy, celery, bell peppers, beans in large amounts, etc). We actually primarily eat casseroles with a little meat and more starch and vegetables. I haven't had a piece of steak or tri-tip since December. Plus I tend to find vegans insufferable.
>>* cooking everything for yourself, from scratch, which avoids most body-wrecking additives <<
We already do this because of our various dietary restrictions, between IBS, allergy to celery seed, and my wife's gallstones there isn't much pre-cooked stuff we can eat. I even use stevia without the dextrose as a sweetener for my tea - there's only one brand that doesn't have funky sugar added.
>>* going carless, and burning calories by walking or biking everywhere <<
Hahahahahaha! I can't ride a bike, my trike is broken, and my walking distance is less than a long block. Transit here is slow and unpleasant, and it's still better than when I was able bodied.
>>* moving to a rural area, where upkeep of house and yard naturally requires more activity <<
Hahaha! I can't do much upkeep as it is with only one usable hand.
>>* taking a more active dayjob, which can make a really large difference going from say a desk job to construction work <<
Snort! I am visibly handicappe4. I would never be hired, and I would finish wrecking my back if I tried.
>>* starting a vigorous hobby like mountain climbing, and doing a lot of it <<
Hahahaha! That costs money, too, plus I have hemiplegia. You can't climb with one hand, IME. I had to change careers because I could not climb ladders any more, much less mountains.
I also won't have life threatening bariatric surgery, which can have bad side effects.
>>Those aren't choices everyone is even capable of making, and most of them are minimally compatible with modern life. Hence the dismal, barely even statistically valid 5% success rate of weight loss. America has designed a society and food system that makes people fat and unhealthy, then blames the victims and often refuses them health care for the system-caused problems. <<
Yep. I have enough metabolic damage from failed diets that I don't dare risk more from yet another failed "diet", "weight loss plan", "lifestyle change", etc. At almost 60, the diet/exercise/pills industry has f'ed over my metabolism and relation to food badly enough that I'm leery of engaging with it at all for fear I'll end up like the Goodyear blimp with an extra side heaping of guilt.
At least I feel better when I can avoid HFCS and hydrogenated fats. As long as I eat a fairly low fat diet along with my wife, my IBS is pretty tame - but stress throws it out of whack anyway.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 08:08 am (UTC)That sucks. O_O
>> We actually primarily eat casseroles with a little meat and more starch and vegetables.<<
The starch will run up calories, but vegetables are good.
You might, if you find the risk worthwhile, explore the wider range of fruits and vegetables available now than in the past. I love trying new things, and can usually tell whether or not something is safe for me to eat. YMMV, but at least there are more options now than used to be.
>> Plus I tend to find vegans insufferable. <<
LOL yes. Not all of them, but a majority of the "political" ones.
I talk about how appetizing animals are until their cute fluffy bunny or deer totem wakes up and screams "AAAAA it's a wolf we're all gonna DIE!" and drags them away. It's hilarious. I have yet to find one who doesn't have a herbivore totem.
>> We already do this because of our various dietary restrictions <<
It sucks not to have a choice about that, but it is still a healthy way of eating.
>>Snort! I am visibly handicappe4. I would never be hired<<
Sadly so.
I think if the government wants to require that people attempt to get employment for benefits, or sets a high retirement age, then it must also obligate businesses to hire those people or else offer them government work suited to their experience and current abilities.
>> Yep. I have enough metabolic damage from failed diets that I don't dare risk more from yet another failed "diet", "weight loss plan", "lifestyle change", etc. At almost 60, the diet/exercise/pills industry has f'ed over my metabolism and relation to food badly enough that I'm leery of engaging with it at all for fear I'll end up like the Goodyear blimp with an extra side heaping of guilt.<<
Can't say I blame you.
Regarding guilt: not only has society produced an unhealthy foodstream and activity-hostile infrastructure and mangled health care system, there's a whole nother level of sabotage. Something, and nobody knows what yet, is making all animals gradually fatter, including laboratory animals on restricted diets that should not be able to gain weight. Self-blame at that point is damn near self-aggrandizement.
>> At least I feel better when I can avoid HFCS and hydrogenated fats. <<
Sensible. Those things are bad for anyone. Just cutting out foods that make you feel icky is a huge improvement.
Among the most useful things to do is looking for small changes that you can sustain, rather than big changes flipping on and off. I think some of the worst problems are caused by people doing extreme diets to lose weight, but then they go back to their old eating habits, because the diet isn't good for the long term. More recently, I've seen some that are really more like foodways, such as the Mediterranean diet that scores so highly on both health and sustainability. But the vast majority remain on-off diets and I have yet to hear of one like that which doesn't cause bouncing. >_<
Speaking of foodways, I was fascinated to discover that traditional African food has dark leafy greens as its base layer, the only one I've seen like that.
Ideally, look for new healthy things you enjoy. I stumbled across a couple loose-meat recipes in the last year or so, one ground beef/mushroom and the other ground beef/onion, followed by confusing the recipes and throwing in both vegetables. All of those I like better than plain beef. So that's a permanent change; I'll probably never make plain beef as a filling/topping again, because it's boring in comparison. (Also works great with buffalo burger.) We've added a large number of healthy recipes that we discovered in our explorations, which is fun. Over time, that slowly tilts things in a healthier direction. Slow is good. Slow is sustainable.
Admittedly, working around special dietary needs is a huge pain in the ass. When I was little, I was the only one in our monkeysphere with that problem; now it's almost everyone. 0_o But like I said above, there are new things that didn't use to be available, so that adds options.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 08:39 am (UTC)Learning to cook low fat but tasty, which rules out sharp spices and funky additives, is a challenge. I have mostly learned to do it, although making good lasagna has eluded me. I can get close if I use a sauce with a lot of mushrooms and lean ground beef in it, plus spinach, plus very lean cottage cheese instead of ricota. Even then, it's barely low enough, and requires a starchy side to balance out her numbers.
One of our roomies eats a modified keto, because she's diabetic, but I can't stand some of the green leafies she uses. Apparently cooking kale like spinach makes is somewhat palatable. Then again, I can't stomach raw spinach anyway, but can devour hug chunks of cooked spinach, so go figure.
The one thing where my wife and I part ways is squash. She likes it, including zucchini, and I only tolerate a few kinds, like pumpkin.
I'm just glad I'm not allergic to any nuts.
The pandemic has had one benefit - we eat out even less than we did before. This helps my wife maintain her numbers, and me maintain my budget.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 09:03 am (UTC)Oh, that does sound promising! :D
>> Meatloaf also is great with barbecue sauce instead of ketchup. <<
Meatloaf is good with many toppings:
* steak sauce
* cheese
* herbs in olive oil
* caramelized onions
* dry rub
* non-tomato ketchup such as mushroom
>> I have mostly learned to do it, although making good lasagna has eluded me. I can get close if I use a sauce with a lot of mushrooms and lean ground beef in it, plus spinach, plus very lean cottage cheese instead of ricota. Even then, it's barely low enough, and requires a starchy side to balance out her numbers. <<
More pasta noodles? Lasagna already has those wide noodles, and there can be few or many.
>>Apparently cooking kale like spinach makes is somewhat palatable. Then again, I can't stomach raw spinach anyway, but can devour hug chunks of cooked spinach, so go figure.<<
Most leafy greens taste bitter to me. However some things cover up well, and baby spinach is easier than full-grown spinach. We have a green smoothie that tastes entirely of kiwi-lime, but includes a lot of baby spinach. There's a spinach-cheese filling we stuff into mushrooms that's basically like spanakopita with portabella caps instead of pastry. Today I had an idea for key lime pie colored with spinach instead of food coloring. The siren-loud lime flavor should completely kill the spinach flavor.
>>The one thing where my wife and I part ways is squash. She likes it, including zucchini, and I only tolerate a few kinds, like pumpkin.<<
If you dislike the effect of squash, abandon it.
If what you dislike is the flavor, however, consider zucchini milk as a dairy replacer in baked goods. They taste like they have a ton of fat and calories, but nope, just zucchini magic. And they don't taste like zucchini.
I don't care for zucchini as a vegetable. I grew up baking with it and was always baffled by other people complaining about too much zucchini. Took years to realize they were, like, stir-frying or grilling it instead of milking it. 0_o
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 09:45 am (UTC)I don't tend to like "milk" that isn't actual milk. The only ones I've been able to stand at all are coconut milk and oat milk. I still don't know how you milk oats, though.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 09:50 am (UTC)Agreed.
>> Applesauce or pureed prunes can substitute for the oils in a lot of baked goods.<<
Applesauce is awesome for cooking. I haven't tried pureed prunes.
>> I don't tend to like "milk" that isn't actual milk. The only ones I've been able to stand at all are coconut milk and oat milk. I still don't know how you milk oats, though. <<
I don't like any of the substitutes for drinking. However, some of them are fine for other purposes. We use almond milk for smoothies and it's great. It also works in quiche and various other recipes. Zucchini milk is for baking, not drinking.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 07:48 pm (UTC)You could ask if anyone in your social circle is willing to swap favors.
Older folks might be willing to trade sewing skills for rides or grocery pickups, folks down on their luck might swap skills for yard tools or raw materials, etc.
Of course if you have a specialized skill of your own (like figuring out bureaucratic red tape), straight-up barter might be easier.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 08:18 pm (UTC)Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-30 09:25 pm (UTC)I have befuddled a[n older] housemate by doing the patch-work-pants-until-they-fall-apart thing...I'd rather spend an hour fixing what I've got than an hour working for $ and another hour looking for good-fitting jeans.
I have also sewn up old bras - besides usual wear & tear I don't like fussing with the straps every time I wear them.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 05:30 am (UTC)That's good.
>> (Learned from my grandmother, who learned from her mother...) <<
I learned from my grandmother and my mother.
>> I have befuddled a[n older] housemate by doing the patch-work-pants-until-they-fall-apart thing.<<
*laugh* Been there, worn that. Have you seen boro?
I have a pair of patchwork hippie pants. When they begin to break down, I will add more patches!
>>I have also sewn up old bras - besides usual wear & tear I don't like fussing with the straps every time I wear them.<<
Logical. Also if the cups are good but the elastic died, a common problem, you can cut the cups off and just reharness them. Or use the whole thing to make a pattern or a dress dummy.
Re: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
Date: 2021-01-31 07:36 am (UTC)Although now that I'm unemployed and the mask buying has died down, I may have to grit my teeth and play "Dances with Elastic"
(no subject)
Date: 2021-02-01 10:00 pm (UTC)I used to use a tight crop top under sports gear, for exercising, then I moved to aqua-walking so that issue vanished. One thing for the sweating underneath problem is to swipe deodorant under there as well as in armpits.
Go you!
Date: 2021-02-01 10:08 pm (UTC)