>> ... Wow, Ysabet, I'm sorry. I really came off as snarly and blamey there, and I did not intend to do that. Heron's interaction with Mallory stomped all over my own issues, *because* I've seen that false or if not false, then unfairly weighted choice situation play out, and I'm carrying several suitcases worth of baggage from it. I apologize for blowing up. You did not deserve my landmine in your face. <<
It's okay. I thought I recognized this from before -- I think it came up with Dr. G previously. So I'm not taking it personally, just trying to pick through and analyze which points are legitimately liable to blow up in Heron's face later, which are Mallory being prickly, and where I may have phrased something poorly.
And yes, I get the fake choice shit all the time from medics. I resent it, and in that context, I sometimes jump to the conclusion on someone who's being honest, just because most of them aren't. *sigh* Nothing to be done but apologize to the guy who got blasted for other people's shitty behavior.
>> As for biting Heron's head off, probably more like flinching, hard, and avoiding until asked what the F was going on, though probably not in those terms given Heron! :) I generally really do like him. This is truly the first time he's crossed from amazingly unshakable to irritating, for me. It was totally the counselor thing. See also, mega issues. <<
Snappishness he tends to ignore politely, which is often a good way to avoid escalating it. But flinching will get his attention.
Shiv can snark all he wants and it'll roll right off, but if he's trying to stay 10 feet out of reach, Heron will notice that and park himself to avoid crowding Shiv. It is precisely Shiv's background with crappy therapists, foster parents, et al that makes him so inclined to answer so many questions with "fuck off." The Finns are trying to show him what a real choice even is and how to make one.
Mallory has a slightly different problem. She doesn't decide things. She either dithers or makes a knee-jerk reaction. This has unpleasant results much of the time. I don't think she has the same sharp reaction to "it's your chocie" because, as far as I know, her parents didn't care what she did. Any version of "do whatever you want" is normal to her ... but that doesn't make it a great idea, because not going through the decision process has crummy results. See the cascade of disasters that made her a supervillain in the first place. So, Mallory can either keep floundering through it the slow way or find some easier method of learning this skill.
Different experiences lead to a different pattern of damage.
>> I really, reeeeally envy T-America its assumption that even the able-bodied random people don't have a complete set of life skills when they hit the age of majority. So much envy. <<
Me too. The more I've seen of this, the more it intrigues me, so I've written about it in several different places. Most recently is a poem about a five young adults taking a class in life/family skills.
>> Also its people commonly *meaning* that someone has a choice when they say something is up to another person, no weight added. That is not my first, second or third read of an offer like the one you posited Heron making to Mallory, <<
I think it really is context-sensitive. If you're used to people lying it, you wind up like Shiv -- it's treated as an attack, because it has been. But if dealing with people who routinely overlook or stall on decisions, then it's pretty important to prompt them. If dealing with people who tend to do whatever you say, sometimes not mentioning quite relevant data that would change your mind, then it's essential to include some safety nets.
>> and I short-changed both you and Heron because of it. Of course he genuinely means it; he likely wouldn't have said it otherwise. And you're not in the business of turning genuine people into jerks. I'm all about the warranted apologies tonight.<<
It's okay. It's useful for me to see the range of responses, because that helps me refine the way I describe things. I'm starting to wonder if I need a warning for things like this, but 1) I'm not sure I'd catch it in advance, and 2) I'm not sure how to phrase it either.
>>Re: fault vs cause: Got me there. Again, I apologize, this time for the misread.<<
That one's always fraught because L-America so often conflates things that it's hard to talk about rape or unwise choices and not have it cross over that territory.
>> Oh, now I want to see Mallory let loose on a toweringly legitimate target. <<
Can do.
>>Maybe somebody's trying to advise, as in bother, more people than just her? The same person who's all over Mallory is also bugging the female/nonbinary couple, or the black mom whose other half happens to be in the bathroom so no, she is not a single mom, thanks, or the multiracial triad. And Mallory can only take so much before she lets fly. <<
Oh yeah, supervillains will haul off and flatten someone who attacked a totally different person. Fortressa's done it -- "Hey dickweed, the lady ordered a salad, not your opinion on her dietary choices. Now go get the fucking salad before I break your fingers."
>> I'm going to buzz off, now. *hugs* I truly am sorry for all the frakups and issues. You did not deserve the blowback from me getting nailed. <<
We're good. I'd rather know where the landmines are.
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dancing_serpent
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2017-12-17 07:46 am (UTC)It's okay. I thought I recognized this from before -- I think it came up with Dr. G previously. So I'm not taking it personally, just trying to pick through and analyze which points are legitimately liable to blow up in Heron's face later, which are Mallory being prickly, and where I may have phrased something poorly.
And yes, I get the fake choice shit all the time from medics. I resent it, and in that context, I sometimes jump to the conclusion on someone who's being honest, just because most of them aren't. *sigh* Nothing to be done but apologize to the guy who got blasted for other people's shitty behavior.
>> As for biting Heron's head off, probably more like flinching, hard, and avoiding until asked what the F was going on, though probably not in those terms given Heron! :) I generally really do like him. This is truly the first time he's crossed from amazingly unshakable to irritating, for me. It was totally the counselor thing. See also, mega issues. <<
Snappishness he tends to ignore politely, which is often a good way to avoid escalating it. But flinching will get his attention.
Shiv can snark all he wants and it'll roll right off, but if he's trying to stay 10 feet out of reach, Heron will notice that and park himself to avoid crowding Shiv. It is precisely Shiv's background with crappy therapists, foster parents, et al that makes him so inclined to answer so many questions with "fuck off." The Finns are trying to show him what a real choice even is and how to make one.
Mallory has a slightly different problem. She doesn't decide things. She either dithers or makes a knee-jerk reaction. This has unpleasant results much of the time. I don't think she has the same sharp reaction to "it's your chocie" because, as far as I know, her parents didn't care what she did. Any version of "do whatever you want" is normal to her ... but that doesn't make it a great idea, because not going through the decision process has crummy results. See the cascade of disasters that made her a supervillain in the first place. So, Mallory can either keep floundering through it the slow way or find some easier method of learning this skill.
Different experiences lead to a different pattern of damage.
>> I really, reeeeally envy T-America its assumption that even the able-bodied random people don't have a complete set of life skills when they hit the age of majority. So much envy. <<
Me too. The more I've seen of this, the more it intrigues me, so I've written about it in several different places. Most recently is a poem about a five young adults taking a class in life/family skills.
>> Also its people commonly *meaning* that someone has a choice when they say something is up to another person, no weight added. That is not my first, second or third read of an offer like the one you posited Heron making to Mallory, <<
I think it really is context-sensitive. If you're used to people lying it, you wind up like Shiv -- it's treated as an attack, because it has been. But if dealing with people who routinely overlook or stall on decisions, then it's pretty important to prompt them. If dealing with people who tend to do whatever you say, sometimes not mentioning quite relevant data that would change your mind, then it's essential to include some safety nets.
>> and I short-changed both you and Heron because of it. Of course he genuinely means it; he likely wouldn't have said it otherwise. And you're not in the business of turning genuine people into jerks. I'm all about the warranted apologies tonight.<<
It's okay. It's useful for me to see the range of responses, because that helps me refine the way I describe things. I'm starting to wonder if I need a warning for things like this, but 1) I'm not sure I'd catch it in advance, and 2) I'm not sure how to phrase it either.
>>Re: fault vs cause: Got me there. Again, I apologize, this time for the misread.<<
That one's always fraught because L-America so often conflates things that it's hard to talk about rape or unwise choices and not have it cross over that territory.
>> Oh, now I want to see Mallory let loose on a toweringly legitimate target. <<
Can do.
>>Maybe somebody's trying to advise, as in bother, more people than just her? The same person who's all over Mallory is also bugging the female/nonbinary couple, or the black mom whose other half happens to be in the bathroom so no, she is not a single mom, thanks, or the multiracial triad. And Mallory can only take so much before she lets fly. <<
Oh yeah, supervillains will haul off and flatten someone who attacked a totally different person. Fortressa's done it -- "Hey dickweed, the lady ordered a salad, not your opinion on her dietary choices. Now go get the fucking salad before I break your fingers."
>> I'm going to buzz off, now. *hugs* I truly am sorry for all the frakups and issues. You did not deserve the blowback from me getting nailed. <<
We're good. I'd rather know where the landmines are.