Recipe: "Rose Cardamom Tres Leches Cake"

[ysabetwordsmith]

Middle East meets Hispanic in this epic dessert.  This?  This is why we need multiculturalism.  *DROOL, SLOBBER* 

Comments

[zesty_pinto]

This is why I believe that the best way to get people to accept others is to start with the food.

Although to be fair, it still gets a bit difficult for some. Not a lot of people can get over the appearance and smell of Indian food even though it is so freaking tasty (which makes me wonder how the hell kimchi even got off the ground).

[conuly]

Although to be fair, it still gets a bit difficult for some. Not a lot of people can get over the appearance and smell of Indian food even though it is so freaking tasty (which makes me wonder how the hell kimchi even got off the ground).

100 years ago, you would've been saying "Not a lot of people can get over the appearance and smell of Italian food" (or "German food" or "Chop suey" or pickles - the last of which mirrors the over-the-top complaints you sometimes hear about children eating saladitos in places with recent Hispanic immigration). The nascent social worker movement actually taught lessons in "American" cooking and judged families on whether or not they used garlic.

"Their food is so smelly" isn't really bounded in fact. Indian food isn't objectively smellier than any other immigrant cuisine. It's racism.

[zesty_pinto]

It's fair what you're saying, but curry is that rare food whose smell leeches out of your skin. Certain things don't translate well with American lifestyles, cuisine-wise. I concede that there is a racist subtext to many foreign cuisines, and certain smells we do adapt to, but there's a reason why it's an unspoken taboo to eat a whole fish at the office, let alone onion-intensive meals.

Appearance also still does have a factor these days. Moreso than ever, in fact, given our photogenic, smaller-is-better, foodie culture. It's great comfort food, but I don't see it selling well to a common marketplace for trendiness and definitely not cheapness. That might change too though as the cuisine gets fused and implemented in different ways.

[conuly]

"Curry" is not a spice. It's a cooking method.

As this article points out, red meat can affect your body odor as well. Americans are well-known for our heavy consumption of red meat. If this site is to be believed, "eating foods that make you smell" does translate quite well to American lifestyles.

(And actually, none of these claims are backed up by reputable sources. It's popular media and dubious "alternative med" sites all the way.)

[zesty_pinto]

My apologies for the syntax, but it doesn't change the fact.

Key components of the masala affecting smell have been mentioned time and time again. It's a product of the spices themselves.

It's not just a matter of hokey science, it's just how it is--I offered you three more links from more notable sites. If you like, I can go hunt down some papers on this too, but I don't want to scour NIH for something so menial.

And again, please note that I stated that we adapt to certain smells, but some of them just don't translate well into our culture. Meat we're used to because we're up to our gills in it, but the more novel foods don't get that same luxury.

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I don't think that it's all about racism, because there are profound chemical differences in food, and Indian is unique from everything else because they work their database backwards.

The more similar cuisine is to what a person knows, or to what most people do, the lower the barrier to getting into it. Going from one European cuisine to another is much less of a jump than going from European to Asian or African. Almost everyone makes recipes by matching ingredients that are closely related in chemistry. Frex, there is a cluster of milk-eggs-wheat that many cuisines use heavily. Indian cuisine, however, gravitates toward combinations that are the least similar, and some other cultures in Asia and southern Europe do some of that too. While this makes for some amazing flavors, it is diametrically opposed from the trend, which some people find disturbing and don't even know why. That doesn't make it okay to disrespect the food or the people (I'm a huge fan of both) but it is a concrete difference and the biggest one I know of in food.

Here's a general discussion of chemical overlap in food. See a map of shared compounds.

Another famous example is chemical heat. Hispanic folks love this so much they even have a special word for it, picante, distinguished from temperature heat, caliente. In my household, "?Esta picante?" is one of our most common codeswitches because, well, it's right there and more convenient than English. Some cultures love heat, and most have a favorite version (horseradish, ginger, peppers, etc. all have different hot compounds), while others do not. Although there are some cold-climate cuisines that can get hot (Tibetan and Nepalese go all the way from bland to volcanic) the preponderance lies in the warmest parts of the world. That's because the chemicals that make food taste hot are natural preservatives. You can load something with spices and it will keep longer. So for instance, Ethiopian food will just about take the enamel off your teeth; I don't speak their language but I'd bet they have a word for picante. Now this is one of the less-flexible aspects of personal taste, because while it's often possible to build one's tolerance somewhat, there is are physical factors that influence a body's tolerance for picante compounds. Me, I can eat candied ginger by the handful, but not most other types of heat. My partner gets blisters from mustard but loves hatch chile peppers. So that influences how people feel about food, which then intersects with their opinions on a culture.

Here's one that white people don't think about, but Africans and Asians sure do: animal milk. Europeans have this cool superpower called Lactase Persistence where a majority of them can digest milk as adults. But it's not the norm like they think. It's a minority trait. About 2/3 of the world turns off lactase production in childhood. "Lactose intolerance" isn't a disease, it's how humans (and every other mammal) normally are. Europeans raised a lot of animals that could produce milk, and got into the habit of using it, so in times of famine, people who could utilize that food source better were more likely to pass on their genes. Elsewhere, not so much. So the cuisine reflects that -- and it means that non-Europeans have to be damn careful about European cuisine lest they spend hours at the toilet because something had dairy in it that wasn't obvious until it was too late. It wouldn't take much of that for someone to become very leery about "foreign food."

I think if we had discussions like this more openly, it would help people understand why they like or dislike things, what they can probably eat safely and where they should exercise caution -- especially in generalizations, because you can use your reaction to one cuisine to predict results of closely related ones. Part of teaching people to explore new foods involves thinking about the color, texture, taste, etc. beyond just "I like it" or "I don't like it." They should also learn foods that make them feel bad or good. Then with ethnic cuisine, you can think about why it is the way it is (high temperatures > spicy food, many dairy animals > lots of dairy products) and how it works. When you know something about chemistry, biology, climate, etc. then it is easier to look at cultures more objectively, in a comparative way, rather than taking it personally like "French food gives me the shits" and then getting bitchy about French people.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> but curry is that rare food <<

Curry isn't a single spice. It's a sauce made with a masala or blend of many spices. There is a curry plant, and curry leaves, but neither of them are "curry powder" which is an Indian equivalent of, say, "chili powder" or "taco seasoning." If you go to an Indian market you can find half a dozen or so bottles of the most popular curry masalas and other masalas along with all the simples. One of our household standards is garam masala, a sweet and slightly hot blend that is basically the Indian equivalent of pie spice. *ponder* Which I have never tried in oatmeal and am now contemplating.

Anyhow, because the base ingredients vary, so does the smell and side effects of "curry." I have had to explain this to a few friends who had, for example, an allergy to turmeric -- I told that person to be extremely careful with Indian cuisine and inform the waiters, because it's in almost everything.

>> certain smells we do adapt to, <<

There are hard limits and soft limits. Most people adapt to most of the things around them. But there are physical factors which mean some people can't adapt to some smells, flavors, or ingredients. Being raised by white parents doesn't give a black kid the power of lactase persistence, and if those white parents don't know that, sooner or later there's going to be some dietary upheaval leading to a quick trip to the doctor.

>>Appearance also still does have a factor these days. Moreso than ever, in fact, given our photogenic, smaller-is-better, foodie culture. <<

Painfully true. But the recipe did include several variations on plating instructions; it would be no trouble to dress this up for a fancy restaurant. I think the biggest hurdle would be the rosewater because Americans don't eat flowers much, and if you give them gulab jamun ("Y'all fed me a caramel hush puppy!") they may be similarly baffled. That's changing, though, and I think this recipe is a sign of that.

No likey? More for me! Another haggis shortage averted! (We tried haggis at a festival. I have no idea why most people don't like it. One of the best mild sausages I ever put in my mouth.)

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

What you eat does change your body odor. If you are eating the same things as people around you, this is negligible most of the time. But if your choice of foods is different, people may shy away. This is most pronounced in intimate contexts with things like garlic, but more in social contexts between carnivores and vegetarians. The former is well known, the latter much less so and if people don't know it they don't know why someone seems off-putting so they can't compensate.

Also, some of these are instant and obvious, like garlic. Others take longer, like asparagus, and by the time it hits most people can't figure out why.

Most humans don't use scent as a dominant sense. Powerful in terms of how it can affect memory and affinity, yes; but rarely mindful. Me, I notice a lot more about body odor than average. Also more about food than anyone except chefs and wine snobs. Frex, I can taste things without licking them, just from the smell.

It would be interesting to study these things in more detail. After all, look how much we learned from running Indian food through a lab. I am still trying to figure out how to reprogram my flavor database to run in reverse. Hook up extremely obscure, unlikely matches, yes; but it's looking for clandestine connections such as the 'furry' note shared by white peaches and Earl Grey tea, not foods with nothing in common.

Re: Thoughts

[zesty_pinto]

Curry isn't a single spice.

Oh come on! You and conoly both missed that I acknowledged it was a syntax flub. Are you trying to rub it in my face now? :P I get the masalas can vary too, but a fair number of them do rely on certain staples; oddly enough, one comment I found while finding these sources noted that turmeric was one of the stronger-smelling spices that exude through your skin.

I should also point out that-

Being raised by white parents doesn't give a black kid the power of lactase persistence,

This isn't totally accurate too, as consistent use does eventually create some resistance in this example. I'm digging for the article, but I will at least throw in the anecdote that I'm part of the statistic; I get all the symptoms and it makes eating in NYC difficult since pizza in the city is great but public restrooms are such a rarity in general and I've had this since my elementary days. But I know if I do the bare minimums every so often, my body does develop some tolerance. It doesn't mean I'm not eating white sauce-based cheese casseroles without repercussions anytime soon, but I can feel the difference and I'm saying this as someone who gets issues even after using lactose pills if I don't eat any for awhile.

Anyway, I agree it's an evolving thing that will become more accepted either as it is shaped to cater towards more Westernized interests or as generations acclimate to it, but for now it's something of a hard sell. In the meantime, like you said, some foods will take time to appreciate--I get the same way over braunshwager and liver dishes in general, and other things like balut will take serious image management before it finds a wider appreciation.

Re: Thoughts

[zesty_pinto]

I'll also look if I can find that lactose tolerance piece. I have a bad feeling it was something I read from Discovery back in the late aughts, but even that has to have a source somewhere.

Re: Thoughts

[conuly]

It's the thought of eating offal + savory oats.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

Oh. Like when the newspaper said it had a recipe for moose lips and then didn't and I couldn't shake it out of them even though it was supposed to be in the game article, because nobody else cared. >_

Re: Thoughts

[conuly]

Moose lips sink ships.

Re: Thoughts

[conuly]

It's definitely true that the reverse is the case - even if you have the gene for lactase persistence (something some Africans have, and certainly many African-Americans have), you will lose that if you don't eat dairy products after weaning.

Re: Thoughts

[zesty_pinto]

Think I found the source on lactose tolerance! It's an old Science Daily article and although the source link doesn't work, I did find an archive source from Perdue News

Re: Well...

[conuly]

Almost everyone makes recipes by matching ingredients that are closely related in chemistry.

Almost everyone in parts of Europe and places colonized by people from those parts of Europe, sure. But I don't think this is worldwide, judging from the food I've eaten from non-European cuisines. I think "opposites attract" is more common on a worldwide basis.

(For that matter, judging from what got written down as recipes, I'm not so sure it was always common in Western cooking either. Consider this list of ingredients for one dish: boiled and fried chicken liver with chopped giblet, ground ginger, cinnamon, cloves, wine, verjuice, beef bouillon and egg yolks, served with cinnamon on top. Okay, I stole that from wikipedia, but dedicated websites to medieval cooking are no less encouraging on this front.)

It's not Indian food that does things weird, it's just Western Europe.

Re: Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

The articles I read were comparing cuisines from different places around the world. More of them use similar ingredients than very different ingredients, and India seems to take it the farthest.

[conuly]

I don't want to scour NIH for something so menial.

Good luck, I tried. And this is bruited around so much that I guarantee somebody has done a proper study determining how much body odor is changed and how detectable it is, but I can't find it.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

There also seems to be a range of flexibility and severity. That is, some people can gain a little ability to digest lactose, and others can't; some people have a severe reaction to it while others are just uncomfortable.

It's one of those places where, if you have good medical access, a doctor can be very helpful. There are some techniques and medications that will buy you a buffer so you can eat some dairy, and for people with mild to moderate intolerance, that's a great thing. They can warn you not to mess with dairy if your intolerance is severe or rigid. It's a matter of pure personal taste whether you find trial-and-error or lab tests to be less bothersome, so having the option is really nice.

Okay...

[ysabetwordsmith]

My google fu is strong. :)

Meat makes your armpits smell stronger and less sexy.

This post mentioned something I've very rarely seen anyone else list: medications. When I'm on antibiotics, my body absolutely reeks of mold. That's not a side effect, just a result of intended permeation. At close range I can smell it on other people too. Same thing happens if you take garlic capsules as internal bug repellent. It works, but it does so by soaking your body in garlic, and yes, that smells.

Re: Well...

[conuly]

The only article I know of is the Washington Post one, which mostly compares India to The West. Do you have another link?

But looking at your second link, I can build a few recipes from there easy peasy: coconut milk, lemongrass, galangal or ginger, thai pepper - that's something Thai, anyway. Soy sauce, onion, bell pepper, pork. This might not be the most authentic dish, but I doubt it's so wildly off the mark. Cilantro, lime, thyme, scallions, chicken. This is a Jamaican dish I make pretty frequently. Peanut, tomato, sweet potato, grains of paradise or black pepper, ginger, chicken. I know the Ethiopian association near me serves this at events, because I've had some. Cumin, oregano, chile, tomato, beef. Some people say tomatoes aren't traditional in chili, but those people can bite me.

Okay, it's possible that "cuisines that Connie likes" are all outliers, but what are the odds, really that Ethiopia would be an outlier along with China and Thailand? Those two I can see, they're geographically not that far from India, but.... (Actually, I also really like the trifecta that is Greek/Turkish/Afghan food. Heavy on the dairy*, heavy on the wheat, heavy on the beef. Yummy.)

* Which is probably why tres leches took off. Do you know, they make this dish that's basically noodles and mozzarella, but it's a dessert? Noodles in a dessert is a kugel, and dairy in a kugel makes sense, but I wasn't expecting the mozzarella-type cheese!

Re: Okay...

[conuly]

Meat makes your armpits smell stronger and less sexy.

Also, vegetarians swear it makes something else taste awful.

But I'm assuming we all know about meat, garlic, and onions. (And sparrowgrass.)

Same thing happens if you take garlic capsules as internal bug repellent. It works, but it does so by soaking your body in garlic, and yes, that smells.

How do you feel about asafoetida?

Re: Okay...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>How do you feel about asafoetida?<<

Well, it's in all my magical references with names like Devil's Dung and strident warnings not to get it on you or even burn it in the house. It reeks mightily, and is a potent banishing ingredient.

I was therefore appalled when my partner wanted to cook with that stuff. I showed him my books. He showed me his. It's a crucial funkener in Indian cuisine, used to cut the sweetness of some dishes. So that's how we came to call roghan josh "Demon-Banishing Lamb."

Never, ever make roghan josh without it. That happened to us once when we were cooking at someone else's house and had forgotten to bring out bottle of the spice. The result was bland, insipid, and pretty awful -- all for the want of a tiny pinch of asafoetida.

Live and learn.

Re: Okay...

[conuly]

Well, it's in all my magical references with names like Devil's Dung and strident warnings not to get it on you or even burn it in the house. It reeks mightily, and is a potent banishing ingredient.

It's also reputed to keep you well if you wear a bag of it during sniffle season. This is possibly because it repels germs, but probably because it repels people.

[zesty_pinto]

Welp, I failed and I concede at it: I'm not finding things in NIH.

I did find this nugget though, which is not what I was looking for, but I concede is fascinating nonetheless!

Re: Thoughts

[librarygeek]

I LOVE gulab jamun. I make it as MY treat for Hanukkah with enough time for the syrup to fully soak into the balls. Dried milk makes it so easy to make!

I always grab orangeflower and roseflower waters when I see them, for Moroccan and other odd cuisines that I like. When I get a home still, I will be picking my rose bushes bare!

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

Yeah, I stock floral waters too. Rosewater really brings out the floral notes in strawberries.