On Captain America

[ysabetwordsmith]

I was appalled, but not surprised, by Marvel's recent storyline that Captain America is Hydra.  Yes, they're really paddling that douchecanoe for all it's worth.  I am pleased to find a post by a Jewish writer, who speaks with more cultural right than I could, explaining why this is so very wrong. 

It's not just about the current fetish for brutalizing and/or distorting heroic figures, this persistent desire to destroy all that is good and hopeful in the world, to convince everyone that they can't have  heroes.  It's that this twist hurts living people  as well as mocking the dead.  That is not okay.

Art is power.  You use it responsibly, because if you don't, you're a bully.

I really hope, in some just and well-deserved afterlife, the people who perpetrated this meet with Steve Rogers so can ... explain ... a few things to them.

Comments

[gehayi]

I canceled all of my Marvel subscriptions after this. I didn't feel that I could support the company. And there are Marvel comics that I love. Kamala Khan. Jane Foster as Thor. But Cap has been part of my life since I was a child, a pillar of decency who took the time to figure out if his 1940s ideals were out of step with the 1960s and 1970s. (He decided that they weren't, and that he could be himself AND live in a society completely different from the one in which he was born.) Withdrawing my money from all of Marvel's projects was the only way that I could think of making a difference, albeit a tiny one.

I probably shouldn't feel betrayed by this decision. I know that Cap has been brainwashed into serving Hydra (and even declaring himself Captain National Front) before. I know that Jack Kirby, who created the character with Joe Simon, wrote the brainwashing story in...1965, I believe it was. But I can't help but feel that there's a difference between one story in which the lead is being coerced into serving evil and it's up to his sidekick to save him and another story in which seventy-five years are retconned out of existence, because the lead was evil all along.

And I still feel sickened, betrayed and hurt.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I canceled all of my Marvel subscriptions after this. I didn't feel that I could support the company.<<

Good for you! I mentioned boycotting as an option in my Poke a Bigot in the Eye post. It helps (but isn't required) if you tell the company why you dumped them.

>> And there are Marvel comics that I love. Kamala Khan. Jane Foster as Thor. <<

I'd enjoy seeing one of Jane as Thor. I also want to get my hands on the Miles Morales Spiderman stuff. Most of what I see now is the movie line, and it's ... up and down.

>> But Cap has been part of my life since I was a child, a pillar of decency who took the time to figure out if his 1940s ideals were out of step with the 1960s and 1970s. (He decided that they weren't, and that he could be himself AND live in a society completely different from the one in which he was born.) <<

I love that about him.

>> Withdrawing my money from all of Marvel's projects was the only way that I could think of making a difference, albeit a tiny one. <<

Every little bit helps. Even if you can't stop them, you can choose not to support them.

>> I probably shouldn't feel betrayed by this decision.<<

Why not?

Some very interesting things have been said about the contract between writers and readers:

Academic exploration of this concept.
https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/17483/ctrstreadeducrepv01980i00015_opt.pdf?sequence=1

Panel discussion of writer-reader trust.
http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2015/08/01/the-writerreader-contract/

So let's talk about trust. Betrayal is a breach of trust, sometimes called "expectancy violation."

People who purchase a Captain America comic or movie expect -- and should have a right to receive, because the character is well established -- to get a story about a virtuous hero. Turning Captain America into a HYDRA agent is as violent a betrayal of appropriate content as putting a dildo into a child's jack-in-the-box. It is especially heinous because Captain America was designed to be, and has been, a supportive icon for disadvantaged groups such as Jews, children, Irish immigrants, the poor, people with disabilities, and bully victims. You didn't get what you paid for. Naturally you are upset.

Of course, that raises another aspect of trust: should you have trusted this provider? This company, this author, this artist? Did you know them well enough that it would have been reasonable to suspect a betrayal because it had happened before, or were you previously happy with their delivery of promised products? Did you have enough data to put them on this trust map? If you ordered a jack-in-the-box and got a fake cock, you would rightly be upset because it was not what you reasonably expected to get when you made that purchase.

*ponder* So there's another option: demand a refund on the grounds of fraud. You wouldn't have bought it if you had known it wasn't congruent with other Captain America products; you wouldn't have bought a comic about a HYDRA thug; so it amounts to false advertising.

>> I know that Cap has been brainwashed into serving Hydra (and even declaring himself Captain National Front) before. I know that Jack Kirby, who created the character with Joe Simon, wrote the brainwashing story in...1965, I believe it was. <<

True ...

>> But I can't help but feel that there's a difference between one story in which the lead is being coerced into serving evil and it's up to his sidekick to save him and another story in which seventy-five years are retconned out of existence, because the lead was evil all along. <<

One difference is that the brainwashing story was written by one of Cap's creators, who understood how to push that boundary without doing catastrophic damage.

Another is the difference between force and choice. Anyone can be violated; it happens; you pick up the pieces and move on. It matters that, even after the Serum, Cap is still vulnerable in some ways. Choosing to do evil is altogether different.

>>And I still feel sickened, betrayed and hurt. <<

*hugs* I'm sorry to hear that. But you're not wrong, or oversensitive. What they did was a dick move.

So I fixed it.

Grrrr . . .

[shiori_makiba]

I first heard about this . . . . thing . . . . from thnidu and it make me very angry.

The kind of angry where when you first try to explain it to someone else, you know that's not all of what is ticking you off but you're too angry to articulate what that else is.

Until someone else whose angry explains why they are angry and you're like "That's it!"

The article you linked to and your own comments here summoned up the parts of my fury that I couldn't find the words for pretty well. Thanks for that.

It also made me angry that the editor and writer had the audacity to claim this isn't some kind of gimmick. So I guess in addition to everything else, they think their audience is too stupid to recognize clickbait and gimmicks meant to shock when they see it.

PinkRangerV's tumbler re-blogged some other reactions that I think speak to how awful this . . . nonsense:
http://kereeachan.tumblr.com/post/144999425322/jadedhavok-boopboopbi-megawordstringer-my

That re-blogged link also echoes my theory about who the real agents are of Hydra are in this . . . and it ain't Steve Rogers.

Re: Grrrr . . .

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I first heard about this . . . . thing . . . . from thnidu and it make me very angry. <<

That is because you are a decent person.

>> The kind of angry where when you first try to explain it to someone else, you know that's not all of what is ticking you off but you're too angry to articulate what that else is.

Until someone else whose angry explains why they are angry and you're like "That's it!" <<

I had no trouble identifying why; it's part of an ongoing problem I follow. But it's also one where, personal connections notwithstanding, I don't have the cultural position to speak with the most background. In that case, I often watch for someone who does to post a good writeup, and then I just add my own comments.

>> The article you linked to and your own comments here summoned up the parts of my fury that I couldn't find the words for pretty well. Thanks for that.<<

I am glad I could help.

>> It also made me angry that the editor and writer had the audacity to claim this isn't some kind of gimmick. So I guess in addition to everything else, they think their audience is too stupid to recognize clickbait and gimmicks meant to shock when they see it.<<

I agree. It's like Lucy and the football. Only most people are not as overtrusting as Charlie Brown.

>>PinkRangerV's tumbler re-blogged some other reactions that I think speak to how awful this . . . nonsense:
http://kereeachan.tumblr.com/post/144999425322/jadedhavok-boopboopbi-megawordstringer-my

That re-blogged link also echoes my theory about who the real agents are of Hydra are in this . . . and it ain't Steve Rogers.<<

That was exactly my response: Hydra agents are trying to trash Captain America's reputation. But it's kind of like blackmail demands, you know? Never deal with terrorists, it only encourages them to do more and worse.

I was sad, but not surprised, to read about the reaction of the little kids. Well, what did the Marvel idiots think was going to happen? Thanks, you gigantic assholes, you made a bunch of kids cry in addition to hurting the feelings of adult survivors of cultural trauma. Now put on your big-boy shorts and apologize, or go find some other job that does not involve pretending you know what heroes even are.

Re: Grrrr . . .

[shiori_makiba]

>>I had no trouble identifying why; it's part of an ongoing problem I follow.>>

*nods*

But besides lacking the cultural connection to a specific aspect of an issue to speak of it sometimes, sometimes I simply cannot get the words to express what I think about it to come out properly.

Being very angry or otherwise upset turns my normally very manageable dyslexia up to 11. It takes time and calm to untangle the resulting mess into something understandable.

But having someone else's perspective on the manner can make that untangling process go a lot faster. :)

>>go find some other job that does not involve pretending you know what heroes even are.>>

Testify.

Meanwhile, I'll be over here reading decently written fan fiction, Polychrome, and working on my own stories.

[mama_kestrel]

I really hope, in some just and well-deserved afterlife, the people who perpetrated this meet with Steve Rogers so can ... explain ... a few things to them.

I'd settle for their meeting up with Jack Kirby and Joe Simon. Somehow I expect that any explanation they might try to give would be found...inadequate.

And this coming out right now, when we have our very own home-grown proto-fascist running for President, makes it all the worse.

My oldest niece (14) told her devastated younger brother not to worry - Cap wasn't a Hydra agent; somebody was pretending to be Cap to make everybody stop trusting him. That's as good as explanation as any, but still - damn Marvel to the hell of their own cynicism!

I can't even get into my visceral response, considering the survivors and victims of the Shoah in my family background. I'm so angry I haven't found the words yet. I'm just glad my father didn't live to see this travesty.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> I'd settle for their meeting up with Jack Kirby and Joe Simon. Somehow I expect that any explanation they might try to give would be found...inadequate. <<

I think the perpetrators either have forgotten, or don't care, that a majority of the Golden Age creators were Jewish, a point laid out in the piece I linked to.

>> And this coming out right now, when we have our very own home-grown proto-fascist running for President, makes it all the worse. <<

Let's not forget that Bernie Sanders is Jewish, and outspoken about justice in ways that make people deeply uncomfortable.

>> My oldest niece (14) told her devastated younger brother not to worry - Cap wasn't a Hydra agent; somebody was pretending to be Cap to make everybody stop trusting him. <<

Good for her! There's a whole list of classic tropes that could explain this: Skrull or other imposter, brainwashing, implanted false memories, alternate timeline created by HYDRA goons, etc. But that isn't going to fix the damage.

>> That's as good as explanation as any, but still - damn Marvel to the hell of their own cynicism! <<

Agreed. That cynicism is making me reduce the amount of their material I consume.

>> I can't even get into my visceral response, considering the survivors and victims of the Shoah in my family background. <<

"Never again."

>> I'm so angry I haven't found the words yet. I'm just glad my father didn't live to see this travesty. <<

:'( *hugs offered*

To make a concrete difference, maybe donate the price of a Marvel comic book or movie to a Shoah museum or other Jewish cause? With a note explaining why, both on the donation, and to Marvel.

Re: Thoughts

[mama_kestrel]

I like that idea. Thank you.

[curiosity]

This. All this. The comments. The Tumblr. The Twitter. WHY?! WTF. I *explodes*.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I'm still working through the stages of my response.

Re: Yes...

[curiosity]

I have been into Marvel since I was a kid. X-Men, mostly, but hell yeah, Cap.

I used to send Stan Lee an X-Men valentine's every year and I am the proud owner of a No Prize and I am just so fucking ANGRY.

But I feel all irrational and shit about it because "It's just a comic." is what I've been told my whole life. But I am fucking INVESTED in this shit.

I lost my collection once, when I dared leave for college and my parents and siblings destroyed everything I didn't take with me. So when I had spare change I'd browse used book stores to replace stuff and find new awesomeness. And that's where I really got into Cap. What he stood for. How he was always doing his best and trying to stand up for people and . . . it made an impression on who I was. Helped me deal.

My grandfather was there, in the concentration camps, at the end, helping people. Trying to. He only ever talked about it twice and had nightmares like no one's business and. I don't know.

They aren't just revamping some intellectual property. They are rewriting part of my life. I've been pissed with no few changes to X-Men over the years but Cap hits below the belt somehow.

[helgatwb]

I'm not Jewish, but all I feel about this is rage. This is just. I am incoherent.

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I am not Jewish either, but I have plenty of friends who are, and I admire the culture. I'm also sensitive about WWII and find this move heinous on that front.

"First they came for ..." FUCKING STOP THAT NOW!!

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Fan theory is that Steve Rogers isn't Hydra, never was... he's being mind-controlled by red skull to make him think he was Hydra all along.

There's actually evidence to support this, apparently, but unless you're fan, it's not going to mean much.

Still doesn't negate what a dick move this was.

Edit:
Perlmutter's [Marvel CEO] response to criticism of the move. "Who cares what a bunch of basement dwelling nerds thinks?"

that there, explains a lot.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

I agree with the author that this is an obvious fakeout. I also agree that this fact adds insult to injury. They might as well have said, "Bite me, k*k* -- oh, I was just kidding, don't be so sensitive."

Some people really need a punch in the face. With a shield.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>> Fan theory is that Steve Rogers isn't Hydra, never was... he's being mind-controlled by red skull to make him think he was Hydra all along. <<

Well, duh, it's a fakeout. That doesn't make it okay.

>> Edit:
Perlmutter's [Marvel CEO] response to criticism of the move. "Who cares what a bunch of basement dwelling nerds thinks?"

that there, explains a lot. <<

How about all the people doing EFA for the crying fans?

Seriously, if you think it's okay to hurt people to make a buck, and you don't care about hurting your customers, you should get some other job that does not involve heroes.

[conuly]

Wait, did he actually say that? In those words?

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

Someone on Tumblr said that the only possible way to redeem this storyline is to have an appalled Bucky Barnes seek out Deadpool, team up with him, jump out of the pages of the comic, kill all the writers with swords, and rescue the real Steve Rogers.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I like this.

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

I'd help... although one has to remember that the story-lines are often not the writers idea, that comes from corporate HQ as handed down by the Editors.

Basically, they get told "Ok, we need a twist to boost sales. Let's make Stevie Rogers be a Hydra guy all along. How? Eh, you figure it out, that's what we pay you for."

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

Write it! Write it!

Perhaps the only worthwhile thing about this will be the fanfic ass-whipping those guys are about to get.

You know what else would be awesome? If the next time any of those pencildicks do a panel or a signing, and the entire audience consists of people in Cap costumes, arms crossed, glaring silently at them the whole time. Few things are as ball-shrinking as a cold audience.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I have a countermeme.

Nick Spencer (the daeshnozzle who penned this abomination) is Hydra.

Now, that doesn't mean kill him. Oh, no, His Blackness showed us better than that; we let him live.

But the name "Nick Spencer" should never make another dime of income. Not for writIng comics or flipping burgers.

This doesn't kill Nick Spencer the human. Pseudonyms happen all the time in publishing. But it does rub his face in what he did, and force him to re-invent himself from scratch. The experience will be *memorable*.

And maybe, just maybe, he might learn a lesson.

Though I do like a previous idea, but I want a twist on it.

Nick Spencer, in a fit of anguish, jumps off the Empire State Building. He arrives in the afterlife to discover that it's MCU. The Avengers are there to greet him. Cap is livid, but Tony says, "No, Cap, you won't like yourself if you do that." Cap is so stunned by Tony's display of personal integrity that he deflates.... at which point Tony steps between them and punches Nick in his perfect teeth, sending him flying several yards.

"But I will," says Tony, reverting to character.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>> I have a countermeme.

Nick Spencer (the daeshnozzle who penned this abomination) is Hydra. <<

Hardly a surprise. He's following their rules, after all: that there are no heroes, and it's okay to hurt people to get what you want.

>> Now, that doesn't mean kill him. Oh, no, His Blackness showed us better than that; we let him live.

But the name "Nick Spencer" should never make another dime of income. Not for writIng comics or flipping burgers.

This doesn't kill Nick Spencer the human. Pseudonyms happen all the time in publishing. But it does rub his face in what he did, and force him to re-invent himself from scratch. The experience will be *memorable*. <<

\o/ Persona dissolution is becoming a popular -- and effective -- form of justice in Terramagne. I really want to show how that plays out with the Spectrum.

>> And maybe, just maybe, he might learn a lesson. <<

If only.

>>Nick Spencer, in a fit of anguish, jumps off the Empire State Building. He arrives in the afterlife to discover that it's MCU. The Avengers are there to greet him. Cap is livid, but Tony says, "No, Cap, you won't like yourself if you do that." Cap is so stunned by Tony's display of personal integrity that he deflates.... at which point Tony steps between them and punches Nick in his perfect teeth, sending him flying several yards.

"But I will," says Tony, reverting to character.<<

:D If the problem you have is a nail, use a hammer.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I have a countermeme.

Nick Spencer (the daeshnozzle who penned this abomination) is Hydra.

Now, that doesn't mean kill him. Oh, no, His Blackness showed us better than that; we let him live.

But the name "Nick Spencer" should never make another dime of income. Not for writIng comics or flipping burgers.

This doesn't kill Nick Spencer the human. Pseudonyms happen all the time in publishing. But it does rub his face in what he did, and force him to re-invent himself from scratch. The experience will be *memorable*.

And maybe, just maybe, he might learn a lesson.

Though I do like a previous idea, but I want a twist on it.

Nick Spencer, in a fit of anguish, jumps off the Empire State Building. He arrives in the afterlife to discover that it's MCU. The Avengers are there to greet him. Cap is livid, but Tony says, "No, Cap, you won't like yourself if you do that." Cap is so stunned by Tony's display of personal integrity that he deflates.... at which point Tony steps between them and punches Nick in his perfect teeth, sending him flying several yards.

"But I will," says Tony, reverting to character.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I have a countermeme.

Nick Spencer (the daeshnozzle who penned this abomination) is Hydra.

Now, that doesn't mean kill him. Oh, no, His Blackness showed us better than that; we let him live.

But the name "Nick Spencer" should never make another dime of income. Not for writIng comics or flipping burgers.

This doesn't kill Nick Spencer the human. Pseudonyms happen all the time in publishing. But it does rub his face in what he did, and force him to re-invent himself from scratch. The experience will be *memorable*.

And maybe, just maybe, he might learn a lesson.

Though I do like a previous idea, but I want a twist on it.

Nick Spencer, in a fit of anguish, jumps off the Empire State Building. He arrives in the afterlife to discover that it's MCU. The Avengers are there to greet him. Cap is livid, but Tony says, "No, Cap, you won't like yourself if you do that." Cap is so stunned by Tony's display of personal integrity that he deflates.... at which point Tony steps between them and punches Nick in his perfect teeth, sending him flying several yards.

"But I will," says Tony, reverting to character.