>>I also think back in the 80s and 90s, it was less okay for people to seek out therapists for things like PTSD, dissociative disorders, schizotypal disorders and other types of disorders.<<
Consider also that there have been changes in some societies that break more people. Frex, in America, the military more often deploys people on multiple tours of duty, which makes PTSD skyrocket -- really it's PDSD then, in many cases, chronic rather than acute exposure doing the damage. Another thing we've lost is employment stability. Jobs are very precarious now, which makes people variously anxious or depressed. Those are natural responses to unnatural situations. And kids, we used to have large extended families that were pretty stable, but now that's mostly gone too. So there is less of a support network all around, and that does damage. Those broken people wash up in therapy, not just with mental illnesses, but with mental injuries which may require different handling.
>> Or alternatively, I wonder if there was a higher institutionalisation rate for people with those disorders than there is now (it's harder for people to get inpatient treatment these days because the cost of outpatient therapy is cheaper - at least in Australia - than it is for inpatient therapy). <<
Definitely true. America closed almost all of its facilities and has switched to housing the mentally ill in prisons. Or just murdering them.
>>As a logical person, I actually loathed it, because I couldn't see the logic in 'lying to myself to make myself better' given that self-deception was the reason I had such bad self-hatred issues in the first place <<
Lying to yourself never works. That's what makes certain things like positive affirmations challenging to apply. They do work, but you have to figure out something which is both plausible and useful to say to yourself. There isn't always something like that you can find.
An issue with CBT is that it assumes all the negative things in your head are wrong. That's not always accurate. If you are surrounded by people who hate you, then saying "Oh, they don't really hate me, that's an exaggeration" will just get you hurt.
>> There are so many shows that have characters see therapists, or talk to one another and bring up things like 'it's okay to cry / it's okay to get angry / this self-maligning that you do, it's not healthy, have you tried doing this.' <<
Things like that are ... partially true. A huge part of the problem is bait-and-switch where people are told that it's okay to do or feel things, then punished when they try it. People are far more willing to say "It's okay to cry" than to sit with a crying friend. They want to make the crying stop, not facilitate expression of emotions. The latter is something that certain therapies are good for -- but CBT isn't one of them. It's about thoughts and actions far more than feelings. People are also told to "get help" and that they're bad for not doing so or for resisting unhelpful services -- but there is little to no protection for those who go through with it. That can absolutely cost you your job, home, family, etc. So of course people resist, because the stakes are extremely high and the pay off dubious.
>> I guess as well, there are so many people who go into get a clin. psych degree who really should not be therapists. <<
Absolutely.
>>I've met clinical psychologists - while I was at university - who were abusive, who were manipulative, who were like 'oh I can handle those crazies but not *those* crazies.' I'm talking upwards of fifteen students in their second year, who were all really fucking unsuited to doing the degree, and were literally doing it because they a) wanted the paycheck and b) in some cases believed that they could literally fix anyone.<<
At one point, we had a magical student who was also studying counselor stuff at a local college. So we got invited to the graduation ceremony. ZOMGWTFBBQ. About a third of the entire population of that room was untrained empaths. The number of trained empaths was: myself, my partner, our two students, and one teacher. Suddenly all the stories about people crying in class made a lot more sense. 0_o It was a fucking disaster.
No wonder I spend so much time cleaning up after this profession.
>>If I sound cynical about clinical psychologists and therapists and CBT it's because I've seen 19 of them since 1997, and only started doing well with any of them about 6 years ago.<<
Alas, I have heard many such stories. There are some good counselors, but there seem to be far more mediocre or terrible ones.
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dancing_serpent
Thoughts
Date: 2015-07-13 08:38 pm (UTC)Consider also that there have been changes in some societies that break more people. Frex, in America, the military more often deploys people on multiple tours of duty, which makes PTSD skyrocket -- really it's PDSD then, in many cases, chronic rather than acute exposure doing the damage. Another thing we've lost is employment stability. Jobs are very precarious now, which makes people variously anxious or depressed. Those are natural responses to unnatural situations. And kids, we used to have large extended families that were pretty stable, but now that's mostly gone too. So there is less of a support network all around, and that does damage. Those broken people wash up in therapy, not just with mental illnesses, but with mental injuries which may require different handling.
>> Or alternatively, I wonder if there was a higher institutionalisation rate for people with those disorders than there is now (it's harder for people to get inpatient treatment these days because the cost of outpatient therapy is cheaper - at least in Australia - than it is for inpatient therapy). <<
Definitely true. America closed almost all of its facilities and has switched to housing the mentally ill in prisons. Or just murdering them.
>>As a logical person, I actually loathed it, because I couldn't see the logic in 'lying to myself to make myself better' given that self-deception was the reason I had such bad self-hatred issues in the first place <<
Lying to yourself never works. That's what makes certain things like positive affirmations challenging to apply. They do work, but you have to figure out something which is both plausible and useful to say to yourself. There isn't always something like that you can find.
An issue with CBT is that it assumes all the negative things in your head are wrong. That's not always accurate. If you are surrounded by people who hate you, then saying "Oh, they don't really hate me, that's an exaggeration" will just get you hurt.
>> There are so many shows that have characters see therapists, or talk to one another and bring up things like 'it's okay to cry / it's okay to get angry / this self-maligning that you do, it's not healthy, have you tried doing this.' <<
Things like that are ... partially true. A huge part of the problem is bait-and-switch where people are told that it's okay to do or feel things, then punished when they try it. People are far more willing to say "It's okay to cry" than to sit with a crying friend. They want to make the crying stop, not facilitate expression of emotions. The latter is something that certain therapies are good for -- but CBT isn't one of them. It's about thoughts and actions far more than feelings. People are also told to "get help" and that they're bad for not doing so or for resisting unhelpful services -- but there is little to no protection for those who go through with it. That can absolutely cost you your job, home, family, etc. So of course people resist, because the stakes are extremely high and the pay off dubious.
>> I guess as well, there are so many people who go into get a clin. psych degree who really should not be therapists. <<
Absolutely.
>>I've met clinical psychologists - while I was at university - who were abusive, who were manipulative, who were like 'oh I can handle those crazies but not *those* crazies.' I'm talking upwards of fifteen students in their second year, who were all really fucking unsuited to doing the degree, and were literally doing it because they a) wanted the paycheck and b) in some cases believed that they could literally fix anyone.<<
At one point, we had a magical student who was also studying counselor stuff at a local college. So we got invited to the graduation ceremony. ZOMGWTFBBQ. About a third of the entire population of that room was untrained empaths. The number of trained empaths was: myself, my partner, our two students, and one teacher. Suddenly all the stories about people crying in class made a lot more sense. 0_o It was a fucking disaster.
No wonder I spend so much time cleaning up after this profession.
>>If I sound cynical about clinical psychologists and therapists and CBT it's because I've seen 19 of them since 1997, and only started doing well with any of them about 6 years ago.<<
Alas, I have heard many such stories. There are some good counselors, but there seem to be far more mediocre or terrible ones.