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 Here we are again.  When I say I want strong female characters, I actually do mean (strong female) characters not (strong characters), female.  I mean go out and look at the 51% of bodies that are female, and look for the strong ones, and tell stories about what they are doing.  Not put boobs on a hero and act like that's a hera.  Un the same.  

(no subject)

Date: 2012-06-23 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sagaciouslu.livejournal.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_So_Big_and_Black

Strong female character. One of the best I've encountered.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-06-23 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] westrider.livejournal.com
Yep. That sounds about right.

One of the trends I saw in there was that there seem to be some shenanigans going on with the different definitions of "strong". "She can throw a bus through a wall, she must be strong, despite the fact that she has no characterization whatsoever", that sort of thing.

I also notice that Buffy hits a couple of the gaps that she couldn't find an example for: gets realistically beaten up when she loses fights, and suffers from pretty severe depression.

Thoughts

Date: 2012-06-23 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com
>>One of the trends I saw in there was that there seem to be some shenanigans going on with the different definitions of "strong". "She can throw a bus through a wall, she must be strong, despite the fact that she has no characterization whatsoever", that sort of thing.<<

My core requisite for a strong female character: she must have agency. That means her actions influence what happens in the story. Throwing a bus through the wall counts if, for example, it crushes the bad guy to death. But if it doesn't change anything, throwing a bus is irrelevant. If she simply looks the bad guy in the eyes and touches his hand, thus reducing him to a quivering pile of remorse so that he gives up the code to shut off the bomb, that counts. A failed seduction attempt that has no effect does not count. It's the size of the impact crater that determines agency, not the trajectory.

In order to have agency, characters must usually be aware of their own strengths and weaknesses, and how to apply those effectively in pursuit of a goal. Not just wait passively for things to happen, not flail around randomly, not react instead of acting. They must have resources and plans (which may or may not be sufficient to the cause). This leaves the options wide open as to what type of strength a given character possesses: physical strength, strong will, political power, spiritual faith, genius intellect, etc.

And yes, super-slut powers do too count as agency if the woman in question can manipulate the hero or villain into thinking with his dick so that he fumbles and she attains her goal. I'd rather see more variety than that, but I can admire a character who uses all available resources. It's one thing I really liked about Natasha in The Avengers. ("You can't pull me out now, this guy is telling me everything!") She could milk someone dry just by making him think he was in control of the helpless sexy chick; the easiest lie to tell people is one they want to believe. But she didn't use sexual intrigue alone; she also had physical combat skills and intelligence. She even tried -- although it failed -- a willpower boost when Bruce started to Hulk out.

I found a great article that defines the core traits of a hero/hera as "agency, voice, and sincerity." There's also a good discussion of character traits and agency in video games with emphasis on the necessary cost of making the wrong decisions.

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