Poem: "Meaning Only in Relationship"
Aug. 7th, 2016 02:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis poem is spillover from the July 19, 2016 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by a prompt from LJ user Paantha. It also fills the "forced to rely on enemy / rival" square in my 7-16-16 card for the ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
hc_bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by Anthony & Shirley Barrette. It belongs to the Calliope thread of the Polychrome Heroics series.
Warning: This poem contains some touchy topics. Highlight to read the spoilery warnings. It covers the aftermath of interpersonal violence, where Calliope and Vagary are trying to figure out what is going wrong with their interactions and how to change that to match their personal and surrounding cultural standards. This includes advance planning for couples therapy, with some very detailed examination of their own and each other's issues. At this point their feelings and responses are muddled, so beware of questionable reliability in the narrative and advisability of character actions. If these are sensitive spots for you, please consider your tastes and headspace before reading onward.
"Meaning Only in Relationship"
To Calliope's considerable surprise,
Vagary did all the work required for them
to start couples counseling. He identified
the community clinics and private offices,
browsed websites, checked references,
and ultimately presented her with a list
of the top three possibilities.
"These are in my order of preference,"
Vagary said. "If you hate them all,
try to tell me why and I'll redo it."
He'd found good ones, though,
so Calliope could simply approve
the top name on the list. "That one."
Vagary marked it, sorted pages carefully,
and filled out a few more boxes. Then
he opened a folder and handed her
a paperclipped sheaf of forms
and worksheets to fill out.
"This is the preview stuff for
the intake meeting," Vagary said.
"We each fill out the individual ones
and then we do the couples one together."
Calliope looked at the individual problems page
and checked off anxiety, not being able to relax,
avoiding thoughts, feeling guilty, detachment,
feeling hopeless about the future, resentment,
and aggression as emotional concerns.
There were a lot of intimate concerns from
not feeling close, not trusting, lack of respect,
trouble communicating, frequent arguments,
and trouble resolving conflicts to feeling
uncommitted and wanting to separate.
She drew a huge X through the sex stuff.
That was satisfying. For childhood she just
checked unhappy, not wanting to go into
the whole gender dysphoria thing.
Under recent stresses, she checked
natural disaster, although it had been
gaining superpowers that caused
the most upheaval in her life.
They'd have to tell the counselor that,
because it was the heart of everything
that was wrong between them; but
Calliope didn't want to do that
any sooner than necessary.
She left the goals blank, though.
This was all Vagary's idea, let him
figure out what to do with it.
Vagary handed her an envelope.
"Put yours in here, and after we
finish the couples page, seal it.
That way I can drop it off with
the rest and you won't have
to worry about me seeing it."
Calliope was startled all over again.
Usually he sucked at boundaries.
"Okay," she said, and slid her page
inside the waiting envelope.
"Here," said Vagary, handing her
the couples form. "I already filled in
my answers, so it's your turn next."
Under favorite parts of the relationship,
Vagary had cited her emotions when
he wasn't around. That was weird.
Calliope wrote that he saw her for who
she really was, which was not something
that she could get from everyone.
Under desired changes, he'd written
fighting; under how often, every time
they met; under topics, their connection.
For the last argument, he'd put down
that he provoked her and she hit him.
Those were all true, so Calliope
just echoed them in her own words.
It felt weird to agree with Vagary.
She had to admit, too, that he was
the first to try making up after a fight.
He'd left that part blank for some reason.
Calliope sealed the couples form
in the envelope and handed it to him.
"Thank you for making arrangements,"
she said. "You did a thorough job."
"Welcome," Vagary said, giving her
a sidelong look. The corner of his mouth
moved, where his tongue pushed against
the stitches from the inside. It was
turning into a nervous habit.
Looking at his reaction, Calliope
got the sinking sensation that she
had done a lot more damage than
just a row of stitches down his lip.
She hated being forced to rely on
her own nemesis like this, and she
hated the bond that tied them together,
but that didn't make it okay for her
to treat Vagary so roughly that he
watched her every move out of
fear instead of fascination.
Action did not exist in isolation, but
found meaning only in relationship;
and without understanding that
relationship, any action chosen
could only lead to conflict.
"Listen, I don't mean to be horrible,"
she said. "It's just that the bond is
more than I can deal with, and I'm
not handling it very well."
"Yeah, me neither," Vagary said.
"That's what counseling is for."
Yet another thing they agreed on.
* * *
Notes:
Calliope (Calvin Sanna) -- Calliope comes from Oklahoma; the father's family is Greek-American, while the mother's family is American. She lives in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Calliope has light olive skin with gray eyes and short hair in shades of lighter and darker blond. Cal is demiromantic demisexual. She speaks English, Greek, and Esperanto.
Origin: Sucked into a tornado.
Uniform: Feminine-styled costume of dexflan and capery in dusty shades of pink, blue, lavender, and cream.
Qualities: Good (+2) Consideration, Good (+2) Flexible, Good (+2) Handiwork, Good (+2) Listener, Good (+2) Word Puzzles
Poor (-2) Distractible
Powers: Expert (+4) Air Powers (meta-power including Flight, Phasing, Sonic Blast, Tornado Straws, Whirlwind, Windtalking), Average (0) Empathy, Average (0) Shapeshifting
Vulnerability: Air Powers are opposed by Earth Powers. Some Air abilities do not work on an Earth-powered opponent, and vice versa, typically those meant to affect a person directly. Others gain an upshift on damage, typically attacks.
Limitation: So far the Shapeshifting only works to switch between Calvin and Calliope. As the power improves, additional shapes may be gained.
Motivation: Self-discovery.
Vagary (Abelardo Bennett) -- He has fair skin, brown eyes, and dark hair with a short beard and moustache. His very mixed heritage includes Jewish, Spanish, German, and Italian. He enjoys taking tours at museums, art galleries, caves, parks, monuments, anywhere he can be part of a group without people expecting him to be charming. He also loves strategy games, with a particular taste for area-control ones.
Vagary currently works for the supervillain organization Kraken. He is a competent spy, adept at both planting and stealing small items as well as eavesdropping. He specializes in fishing for information by hanging around places of power in semi-public or taking tours, and skimming for valuable thoughts. Kraken has considered him for officer training, held back primarily by his shyness and poor social skills; so far he has only taken the lead in a few small teams.
Origin: Abelardo was kicked out of his rather conservative home for "sexual confusion." A Kraken officer recruited him by providing acceptance of whatever he turned out to be. Abelardo never has really nailed down his sexual orientation or identity, but unlike his family, Kraken doesn't care. The organization offered him the gamble of taking a potent metagen; he accepted, and developed superpowers.
Uniform: Kraken uniform of dexflan and capery; the jumpsuits is sensibly designed with sleek fit, plenty of pockets and fasteners for equipment. It provides Expert (+4) Camouflage to a designated user, but if worn by anyone else, turns garish neon colors. The utility belt contains a multitude of small gizmos and other tools, along with a holster for the Confusticator zap gun which causes disorientation and short-term memory loss. Off-duty, Abelardo favors business casual, most often trousers and a polo shirt.
Qualities: Good (+2) Flexible, Good (+2) Gamer, Good (+2) Patience, Good (+2) Spy, Good (+2) Touring
Poor (-2) Social Skills
Powers: Average (0) Phase, Average (0) Telepathy
Limitation: His Telepathy is usually restricted to skimming strong signals from the ambient pitch pool, rather than reading another person directly. If he phases through someone, it functions at Good level and he can read them directly, but he feels very uncomfortable doing that.
Motivation: To explore while unobserved.
* * *
“Action has meaning only in relationship, and without understanding relationship, action on any level will only breed conflict. The understanding of relationship is infinitely more important than the search for any plan of action.”
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
Relationship counseling spans a wide range from family therapy to marriage counseling, and couples therapy can apply to any two people having problems. The vast majority is aimed at married people, but if you look closely at counselor services, you'll see providers who list other specialities such as dating violence or sibling rivalry. Understand the purpose and process of couples therapy. While many people argue that counseling for abuse does not work, this is a little off-base. What doesn't work is forcing therapy on unwilling parties. Someone with crappy relationship habits and/or a hot temper who agrees it is a problem and chooses to work on it has a similar chance of improvement as anyone else going into therapy in hopes of fixing their shit. Know the warning signs of a troubled relationship that indicate you might benefit from couples therapy. Consider different types of therapy, how to find a therapist, and what to look for in a therapist. Despite Calliope and Vagary having individual issues, and worse ones together, they both agree that the situation is undesirable and are willing to do a share of the work to address that. This is more hopeful than situations where one or both parties are ignoring trouble.
Emotionally Focused Therapy deals in feelings and relationships, originally developed for adult romantic relationships but now extending into family therapy and other areas of interpersonal dynamics. Forms and questionnaires can help individuals and couples identify at least some of their issues before beginning therapy. Consider this individual problems checklist and this couples questionnaire.
hc_bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by Anthony & Shirley Barrette. It belongs to the Calliope thread of the Polychrome Heroics series.Warning: This poem contains some touchy topics. Highlight to read the spoilery warnings. It covers the aftermath of interpersonal violence, where Calliope and Vagary are trying to figure out what is going wrong with their interactions and how to change that to match their personal and surrounding cultural standards. This includes advance planning for couples therapy, with some very detailed examination of their own and each other's issues. At this point their feelings and responses are muddled, so beware of questionable reliability in the narrative and advisability of character actions. If these are sensitive spots for you, please consider your tastes and headspace before reading onward.
"Meaning Only in Relationship"
To Calliope's considerable surprise,
Vagary did all the work required for them
to start couples counseling. He identified
the community clinics and private offices,
browsed websites, checked references,
and ultimately presented her with a list
of the top three possibilities.
"These are in my order of preference,"
Vagary said. "If you hate them all,
try to tell me why and I'll redo it."
He'd found good ones, though,
so Calliope could simply approve
the top name on the list. "That one."
Vagary marked it, sorted pages carefully,
and filled out a few more boxes. Then
he opened a folder and handed her
a paperclipped sheaf of forms
and worksheets to fill out.
"This is the preview stuff for
the intake meeting," Vagary said.
"We each fill out the individual ones
and then we do the couples one together."
Calliope looked at the individual problems page
and checked off anxiety, not being able to relax,
avoiding thoughts, feeling guilty, detachment,
feeling hopeless about the future, resentment,
and aggression as emotional concerns.
There were a lot of intimate concerns from
not feeling close, not trusting, lack of respect,
trouble communicating, frequent arguments,
and trouble resolving conflicts to feeling
uncommitted and wanting to separate.
She drew a huge X through the sex stuff.
That was satisfying. For childhood she just
checked unhappy, not wanting to go into
the whole gender dysphoria thing.
Under recent stresses, she checked
natural disaster, although it had been
gaining superpowers that caused
the most upheaval in her life.
They'd have to tell the counselor that,
because it was the heart of everything
that was wrong between them; but
Calliope didn't want to do that
any sooner than necessary.
She left the goals blank, though.
This was all Vagary's idea, let him
figure out what to do with it.
Vagary handed her an envelope.
"Put yours in here, and after we
finish the couples page, seal it.
That way I can drop it off with
the rest and you won't have
to worry about me seeing it."
Calliope was startled all over again.
Usually he sucked at boundaries.
"Okay," she said, and slid her page
inside the waiting envelope.
"Here," said Vagary, handing her
the couples form. "I already filled in
my answers, so it's your turn next."
Under favorite parts of the relationship,
Vagary had cited her emotions when
he wasn't around. That was weird.
Calliope wrote that he saw her for who
she really was, which was not something
that she could get from everyone.
Under desired changes, he'd written
fighting; under how often, every time
they met; under topics, their connection.
For the last argument, he'd put down
that he provoked her and she hit him.
Those were all true, so Calliope
just echoed them in her own words.
It felt weird to agree with Vagary.
She had to admit, too, that he was
the first to try making up after a fight.
He'd left that part blank for some reason.
Calliope sealed the couples form
in the envelope and handed it to him.
"Thank you for making arrangements,"
she said. "You did a thorough job."
"Welcome," Vagary said, giving her
a sidelong look. The corner of his mouth
moved, where his tongue pushed against
the stitches from the inside. It was
turning into a nervous habit.
Looking at his reaction, Calliope
got the sinking sensation that she
had done a lot more damage than
just a row of stitches down his lip.
She hated being forced to rely on
her own nemesis like this, and she
hated the bond that tied them together,
but that didn't make it okay for her
to treat Vagary so roughly that he
watched her every move out of
fear instead of fascination.
Action did not exist in isolation, but
found meaning only in relationship;
and without understanding that
relationship, any action chosen
could only lead to conflict.
"Listen, I don't mean to be horrible,"
she said. "It's just that the bond is
more than I can deal with, and I'm
not handling it very well."
"Yeah, me neither," Vagary said.
"That's what counseling is for."
Yet another thing they agreed on.
* * *
Notes:
Calliope (Calvin Sanna) -- Calliope comes from Oklahoma; the father's family is Greek-American, while the mother's family is American. She lives in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Calliope has light olive skin with gray eyes and short hair in shades of lighter and darker blond. Cal is demiromantic demisexual. She speaks English, Greek, and Esperanto.
Origin: Sucked into a tornado.
Uniform: Feminine-styled costume of dexflan and capery in dusty shades of pink, blue, lavender, and cream.
Qualities: Good (+2) Consideration, Good (+2) Flexible, Good (+2) Handiwork, Good (+2) Listener, Good (+2) Word Puzzles
Poor (-2) Distractible
Powers: Expert (+4) Air Powers (meta-power including Flight, Phasing, Sonic Blast, Tornado Straws, Whirlwind, Windtalking), Average (0) Empathy, Average (0) Shapeshifting
Vulnerability: Air Powers are opposed by Earth Powers. Some Air abilities do not work on an Earth-powered opponent, and vice versa, typically those meant to affect a person directly. Others gain an upshift on damage, typically attacks.
Limitation: So far the Shapeshifting only works to switch between Calvin and Calliope. As the power improves, additional shapes may be gained.
Motivation: Self-discovery.
Vagary (Abelardo Bennett) -- He has fair skin, brown eyes, and dark hair with a short beard and moustache. His very mixed heritage includes Jewish, Spanish, German, and Italian. He enjoys taking tours at museums, art galleries, caves, parks, monuments, anywhere he can be part of a group without people expecting him to be charming. He also loves strategy games, with a particular taste for area-control ones.
Vagary currently works for the supervillain organization Kraken. He is a competent spy, adept at both planting and stealing small items as well as eavesdropping. He specializes in fishing for information by hanging around places of power in semi-public or taking tours, and skimming for valuable thoughts. Kraken has considered him for officer training, held back primarily by his shyness and poor social skills; so far he has only taken the lead in a few small teams.
Origin: Abelardo was kicked out of his rather conservative home for "sexual confusion." A Kraken officer recruited him by providing acceptance of whatever he turned out to be. Abelardo never has really nailed down his sexual orientation or identity, but unlike his family, Kraken doesn't care. The organization offered him the gamble of taking a potent metagen; he accepted, and developed superpowers.
Uniform: Kraken uniform of dexflan and capery; the jumpsuits is sensibly designed with sleek fit, plenty of pockets and fasteners for equipment. It provides Expert (+4) Camouflage to a designated user, but if worn by anyone else, turns garish neon colors. The utility belt contains a multitude of small gizmos and other tools, along with a holster for the Confusticator zap gun which causes disorientation and short-term memory loss. Off-duty, Abelardo favors business casual, most often trousers and a polo shirt.
Qualities: Good (+2) Flexible, Good (+2) Gamer, Good (+2) Patience, Good (+2) Spy, Good (+2) Touring
Poor (-2) Social Skills
Powers: Average (0) Phase, Average (0) Telepathy
Limitation: His Telepathy is usually restricted to skimming strong signals from the ambient pitch pool, rather than reading another person directly. If he phases through someone, it functions at Good level and he can read them directly, but he feels very uncomfortable doing that.
Motivation: To explore while unobserved.
* * *
“Action has meaning only in relationship, and without understanding relationship, action on any level will only breed conflict. The understanding of relationship is infinitely more important than the search for any plan of action.”
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
Relationship counseling spans a wide range from family therapy to marriage counseling, and couples therapy can apply to any two people having problems. The vast majority is aimed at married people, but if you look closely at counselor services, you'll see providers who list other specialities such as dating violence or sibling rivalry. Understand the purpose and process of couples therapy. While many people argue that counseling for abuse does not work, this is a little off-base. What doesn't work is forcing therapy on unwilling parties. Someone with crappy relationship habits and/or a hot temper who agrees it is a problem and chooses to work on it has a similar chance of improvement as anyone else going into therapy in hopes of fixing their shit. Know the warning signs of a troubled relationship that indicate you might benefit from couples therapy. Consider different types of therapy, how to find a therapist, and what to look for in a therapist. Despite Calliope and Vagary having individual issues, and worse ones together, they both agree that the situation is undesirable and are willing to do a share of the work to address that. This is more hopeful than situations where one or both parties are ignoring trouble.
Emotionally Focused Therapy deals in feelings and relationships, originally developed for adult romantic relationships but now extending into family therapy and other areas of interpersonal dynamics. Forms and questionnaires can help individuals and couples identify at least some of their issues before beginning therapy. Consider this individual problems checklist and this couples questionnaire.
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Date: 2016-08-07 10:56 pm (UTC)Fixed!
Date: 2016-08-07 11:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2016-08-08 02:35 am (UTC)You probably remember the issues I had with the last poem.
So I would also like to see another poem that flips the surprise that he handled boundaries and pulling things together well. Something that explores Calliope surprising Vagary with how much *she* gets something/is unexpectedly reliable, probably around gender and/or trans issues.
Maybe he finds *himself* forced to pick up the hero role when he intervenes in an assault or comes in or the aftermath. Maybe he doesn't understand why things happened the way they happen. Maybe it's time for Caliope to teach him to understand gender stuff a little bit, even though that would be hard for her because part of what she likes about him is the way he accepts her. But simple acceptance of people can coexist with acceptance of complexity in the world through willingness to let things be what they are when what they are is good and sufficient.
On a philosophical tangent... Vagary strikes me as someone who, with the right experiences, could make the leap from childish beginner (lack of complexity in worldview) to expert listener's beginner's mind (deliberate, mindful acceptance of complexity that still finds a simple stillness) precisely *because* of his eccentricity, without him having to spend forever in screwed-up-young-adult trying-to-control-the-world. While Calliope strikes me as the action hera who doesn't want to go the detached sage route but rather the activist, magician, or family-builder/home-defender route, of gaining wisdom/spiritual power through wise action and actively building a better world.
I do want to see Vagary learn why women, transfolk, and femmefolk *have to* have defensive reflexes, and be able to not fault Calliope for having them without putting infinite blame on himself. (For reference, the only people I know in the physical world who can fine-tune self-defense reflexes the way you described in comments before are athletes either physically or emotionally/spiritually. I can either be prepared to hit if needed or not hit, that's about all, and I have consciously chosen to accept the physical and moral risks of being emotionally prepared to fight back if assaulted.) Which also is to say that while Calliope may, as a superhera, have the *potential* to learn to make the fine judgments required to shake off, without injury, someone who grabs her, I don't blame her for not already having it. I feel very strongly that it is not her moral obligation as a *person* to be a better victim and do less damage to someone grabbing her. As a superhera she may choose to *assume* the obligation of treating capes and other threats with a measured spectrum of force. As a *representative character* of a group of people that are frequently criminalized for self defense and every choice they make criticized, I want to see her side of that discussed too. Thus my wish to see a situation in which Vagary is forced to consult *her* in order to effectively address a problem involving the needs of someone in a vulnerable situation and/or marginalized group.
I still find both of these characters compelling, and you mentioned that you wouldn't mind seeing back and forth reactions happening, so I'm bookmarking this comment to try to distill into a prompt for your next fishbowl.
Thank you!
Date: 2016-08-08 06:45 am (UTC)Yay! I'm so glad to hear that.
>> You probably remember the issues I had with the last poem. <<
Yes, and they were very well thought out. I'm happy that you decided to read this one, and found it balancing.
>> So I would also like to see another poem that flips the surprise that he handled boundaries and pulling things together well. Something that explores Calliope surprising Vagary with how much *she* gets something/is unexpectedly reliable, probably around gender and/or trans issues. <<
That could be really fun. I have a couple of potential ideas.
>> Maybe he finds *himself* forced to pick up the hero role when he intervenes in an assault or comes in or the aftermath. Maybe he doesn't understand why things happened the way they happen. <<
Those seem like logical possibilities.
>> Maybe it's time for Caliope to teach him to understand gender stuff a little bit, even though that would be hard for her because part of what she likes about him is the way he accepts her. <<
They may or may not be ready for this bit. It might work better as a subsequent discussion. I think that, sooner or later, they will need to address the gender dynamics simply because Calliope's past affects not just her present in general but how she interacts with Vagary in particular -- both positive and negative ramifications.
>> But simple acceptance of people can coexist with acceptance of complexity in the world through willingness to let things be what they are when what they are is good and sufficient. <<
That's true.
>> On a philosophical tangent... Vagary strikes me as someone who, with the right experiences, could make the leap from childish beginner (lack of complexity in worldview) to expert listener's beginner's mind (deliberate, mindful acceptance of complexity that still finds a simple stillness) precisely *because* of his eccentricity, without him having to spend forever in screwed-up-young-adult trying-to-control-the-world. <<
Ah, that's possible. Kraken has people like that, and values them. It's an organization more about manipulation than brute force.
>> While Calliope strikes me as the action hera who doesn't want to go the detached sage route but rather the activist, magician, or family-builder/home-defender route, of gaining wisdom/spiritual power through wise action and actively building a better world. <<
Yep. She is very action-oriented. If she and Vagary could quit butting heads for five minutes, they might actually be good for each other. But that would require learning how to use their differences to advantage, rather than fighting over them.
>> I do want to see Vagary learn why women, transfolk, and femmefolk *have to* have defensive reflexes, and be able to not fault Calliope for having them without putting infinite blame on himself. <<
Agreed. I suspect this will be easiest to connect with the fact that soups have the same need for similar reasons.
>> (For reference, the only people I know in the physical world who can fine-tune self-defense reflexes the way you described in comments before are athletes either physically or emotionally/spiritually. <<
Well, huh. I guess we did the impossible again without noticing it. How we did it was simply drawing on the same ulterior resources we used to solve the bullying problem by reactiving previous combat skills -- it was just a matter of looking how to stand down after a tour. Some other cultures teach that a lot better. And then just the hard work of actually doing it. Thus I suspect that many people could learn if taught, but few could bootstrap it by themselves, and some just wouldn't have the skill to manage it no matter what coaching they got.
>> I can either be prepared to hit if needed or not hit, that's about all, <<
That's pretty common.
>> and I have consciously chosen to accept the physical and moral risks of being emotionally prepared to fight back if assaulted.) <<
That's reasonable.
>> Which also is to say that while Calliope may, as a superhera, have the *potential* to learn to make the fine judgments required to shake off, without injury, someone who grabs her, I don't blame her for not already having it. <<
That makes sense. No one is responsible for knowing what they haven't learned, and up to this point she hasn't run into a problem not knowing it so it hasn't inspired a need to learn how.
>> I feel very strongly that it is not her moral obligation as a *person* to be a better victim and do less damage to someone grabbing her. As a superhera she may choose to *assume* the obligation of treating capes and other threats with a measured spectrum of force. <<
Well now, that's a matter of context, and it's not a simple thing at all.
* Nobody is required to let people hurt them. I disagree with people in power who feel they have a right to hurt people who are not permitted to resist.
* The amount of force which is reasonable as a standard response depends on:
** how often you are attacked (more likely -> more forceful response justified)
** how severe the damage is likely to be (higher threat -> more forceful response justified)
** the chance of noncombatants being injured in the process (lower chance -> more forceful response justified)
** the probable combat capacity of your opponent (higher capacity -> more forceful response justified)
** your own capacity (lower capacity -> more forceful response justified)
A person, in general, may defend themselves based on a reasonable assessment of personal danger. Sometimes people make mistakes. Someone with superpowers (or any other exceptional ability) has a responsibility to use that decently: "Powers are for helping, not for hurting." If someone's threat assessment and response is tuned way high or way low, that's a bad thing and needs adjustment -- especially if there are factors changing over time.
The latter is particularly true of Cal because she started out with a very low combat capacity which skyrocketed due to manifesting superpowers. She hasn't adjusted her reflexes yet to account for the fact that the vast majority of people are no longer any real threat to her. Plus which, she had only a casual observer's understanding of the nuances in cape culture, what is and is not considered "fighting fair." Those changing factors mean that what used to be a reasonable response is going to wind up excessive now, more often than not.
>> As a *representative character* of a group of people that are frequently criminalized for self defense and every choice they make criticized, I want to see her side of that discussed too. <<
This is important not just for the background context, but also the intersectionality. Being trans and super are two different things that make people targets for everything from physical violence to workplace discrimination to armchair captains dissecting a cape fight on the news. 0_o These are issues that everyone in cape politics has to deal with ... and key reasons why so many people are blue plates or crickets instead.
>> Thus my wish to see a situation in which Vagary is forced to consult *her* in order to effectively address a problem involving the needs of someone in a vulnerable situation and/or marginalized group. <<
I like that idea. Calliope does know a lot about those things, some of it from growing up as she did, and more from getting a capable gender coach after her transition.
>> I still find both of these characters compelling,<<
Yay! :D
>> and you mentioned that you wouldn't mind seeing back and forth reactions happening, <<
The more I think about it, the more I suspect that's a necessary part of their journey. It's too much of a muddle for a straight solution. They're going to wander around in the swamp being lost for a while.
>> so I'm bookmarking this comment to try to distill into a prompt for your next fishbowl. <<
Awesome. \o/
Next up is the Creative Jam on August 20-21 about "Fashion" (probably not useful) and then the September 6 fishbowl will be on "Pet Peeves" (definitely relevant to these two, though it may take some finagling to match with this storyline step).
detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 02:58 am (UTC)Vagary did all the work required for them
to start couples counseling. <<
Some surprises can be good! :)
I’m glad I came at this with the background knowledge that Terramagne encourages couples counseling in other contexts besides romantic/sexual couples. Otherwise it could be confusing.
>> "If you hate them all,
try to tell me why and I'll redo it.” <<
A wise thing to say, under the circumstances. He has some good ideas.
>> Calliope looked at the individual problems page
and checked off anxiety, not being able to relax,
avoiding thoughts, feeling guilty, detachment,
feeling hopeless about the future, resentment,
and aggression as emotional concerns.
There were a lot of intimate concerns from
not feeling close, not trusting, lack of respect,
trouble communicating, frequent arguments,
and trouble resolving conflicts to feeling
uncommitted and wanting to separate. <<
Yup, she’s a mess. They both are. I really really want to continue to follow the (hopefully upward) spiral now.
>> She drew a huge X through the sex stuff.
That was satisfying. <<
Kudos to her. Being able to say “screw that, not applicable” is a very satisfying feeling when it comes to problematic assumptions.
>> For childhood she just
checked unhappy, not wanting to go into
the whole gender dysphoria thing. <<
This makes sense but could be problematic down the line some ways. I really really really hope they get a good counselor because eventually it’s likely that they’ll need to bring in their other emotional issues in order to resolve very much, but being a bit reserved about this is very reasonable.
>> Under recent stresses, she checked
natural disaster, although it had been
gaining superpowers that caused
the most upheaval in her life.
They'd have to tell the counselor that,
because it was the heart of everything
that was wrong between them; but
Calliope didn't want to do that
any sooner than necessary. <<
Nodding. Sometimes one has to lay the groundwork to explain something effectively. Sometimes it’s information is important enough that one has to manage how one presents it. Sometimes trust is required to express oneself freely.
>> She left the goals blank, though. <<
She needs to get some goals, or the default goal will be “put up with this so I can move on” and they won’t accomplish much.
>> This was all Vagary's idea, let him
figure out what to do with it. <<
Tempting, yes. But when people are doing something *together*, whoever had the idea to start with, both/all people have to invest willingly in it to some extent (though necessarily the exact same extent, it’s okay to make a deal to do 75% and get 25% if one has more spoons/time/whatever) or it’ll just provoke another conflict about priorities and obligations. And couples counseling isn’t exactly something that can be done not-together, though they each might as well consider looking for individual counseling or another form of personal mental wellness/growth practice while they are at it.
>>Vagary handed her an envelope.
"Put yours in here, and after we
finish the couples page, seal it.
That way I can drop it off with
the rest and you won't have
to worry about me seeing it."
Calliope was startled all over again.
Usually he sucked at boundaries.<<
Hmmm. Wonder why he got this one?
Is she missing it when he does get it rightHow much is she missing it when he does get it right? How much is this an exception to that tendency, and to what extent is it an exception because he’s trying harder and/or has learned more?>> Under favorite parts of the relationship,
Vagary had cited her emotions when
he wasn't around. That was weird. <<
Yes. Wonder where that’ll go.
>> Calliope wrote that he saw her for who
she really was, which was not something
that she could get from everyone. <<
Extremely important. But people can always learn more about each other, and discovering/creating how to be better together is a great form of that. I think her fear of losing this might become a stumbling block in time, but it’s also a motivator to spend positive time together, which she desperately needs if they are going to *try* to be connected instead of fighting it.
>> Under desired changes, he'd written
fighting; under how often, every time
they met; under topics, their connection.
For the last argument, he'd put down
that he provoked her and she hit him.
Those were all true, so Calliope
just echoed them in her own words.
It felt weird to agree with Vagary. <<
Clear. As mud. Yup. They know what happened, what they did to each other, and some of why. But they don’t know what it *means* because they haven’t made a *usable* meaning out of it yet.
>> She had to admit, too, that he was
the first to try making up after a fight.
He'd left that part blank for some reason. <<
Because he’s down on himself to a dangerous extent. Reminds me of depression-brain the way someone I know gets it.
>> "Thank you for making arrangements,"
she said. "You did a thorough job."
"Welcome," Vagary said, giving her
a sidelong look.<<
Courtesy can be unexpectedly important.
>> Looking at his reaction, Calliope
got the sinking sensation that she
had done a lot more damage than
just a row of stitches down his lip. <<
>> that didn't make it okay for her
to treat Vagary so roughly that he
watched her every move out of
fear instead of fascination. <<
Yes.
>>nemesis<<
Hard to define what this means to them; it keeps changing in ways they aren’t fully aware of. I hope they decide to go for “best frenemies” if not outright “friends.”
>> Action did not exist in isolation, but
found meaning only in relationship;
and without understanding that
relationship, any action chosen
could only lead to conflict. <<
Yes. This is both a meaningful philosophy-fragment well illustrated by the poem, and a useful piece of built-in meta helping to explain the rest of the poem.
>> Yet another thing they agreed on. <<
Nods.
Re: detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 08:51 am (UTC)Vagary did all the work required for them
to start couples counseling.
Some surprises can be good! :) <<
Neither of them are really used to positive surprises yet, but every little bit helps.
>> I’m glad I came at this with the background knowledge that Terramagne encourages couples counseling in other contexts besides romantic/sexual couples. Otherwise it could be confusing. <<
That feature actually is available here; I checked; a few counselors offer it and list such things on their websites. Not many, but a few. Marriage counseling is primarily for married people but some use the same term for any romantic counseling. Couples, pair, or dyad counseling are used for other two-person sessions; group counseling usually means three or more people. But it's not widely known, and some of the sites hint at frustration that people think couples counseling is only for romantic occasions. All of this falls under relationship counseling in general -- another term that lots of folks think is only for married couples. I think we'd have a lot healthier society if folks understood that any broken relationship can be addressed in therapy if you both want to try that and you can find a suitable counselor.
>> "If you hate them all,
try to tell me why and I'll redo it.”
A wise thing to say, under the circumstances. He has some good ideas.<<
He really does. They're just jumbled in with a lot of very bad ones. I suspect Vagary thinks better when he has time to mull over his options. When rushed, his ideas are horrible.
>> Yup, she’s a mess. They both are. <<
A lot of that is because of how they got thrown into a very intimate situation with no real preparation.
>> I really really want to continue to follow the (hopefully upward) spiral now. <<
I'm glad I managed to pull you into this arc. :D It could charitably be called upward if you average out the ups and downs.
>> Kudos to her. Being able to say “screw that, not applicable” is a very satisfying feeling when it comes to problematic assumptions. <<
And having it accepted, too. Both Calliope and Vagary are becoming stressed over the way people keep misinterpreting their relationship and then refusing to be corrected.
>> For childhood she just
checked unhappy, not wanting to go into
the whole gender dysphoria thing.
This makes sense but could be problematic down the line some ways. I really really really hope they get a good counselor because eventually <<
Yes, they do. Those are easier to find in T-America than here, and Vagary did some serious research.
>> it’s likely that they’ll need to bring in their other emotional issues in order to resolve very much, but being a bit reserved about this is very reasonable. <<
There's a balance between staying on topic, which they need at first; and being complete, which they'll need more later. There's another between trusting a therapist enough to reveal sufficient data to begin working on the issues, and a healthy caution while they make sure it's a competent and compatible relationship in therapy. Calliope and Vagary are both being somewhat more forthcoming than typical at the beginning, because they have had some positive experiences in this regard. Calliope has a gender coach and Vagary has folks at Kraken. And neither of them want to destabilize the programs that are already working for them by messing around in the same area with someone new. Conversely, their previous counselors do not specialize in relationship therapy so they need a new one for that.
>> Nodding. Sometimes one has to lay the groundwork to explain something effectively. Sometimes it’s information is important enough that one has to manage how one presents it. Sometimes trust is required to express oneself freely. <<
Yep. Some of their issues go all the way to the root, and thus, are much more sensitive than can be introduced at the beginning of any discussion. That's part of the problem they're having with each other -- the bond jumped past the stages that make people comfortable with intimacy, so it feels creepy and wrong. But most of the actual conflict with each other is closer to the surface and more recent, which makes it easier to get at. Calliope is defensive about the gender stuff for basically the same reasons most genderqueer people are: people who know about it frequently attack it.
>> She left the goals blank, though.
She needs to get some goals, or the default goal will be “put up with this so I can move on” and they won’t accomplish much.<<
Eventually, yes, but Calliope isn't there yet. She can't be, because this wasn't her idea. Vagary was the one who first identified that they had a serious problem and needed help with it, so he's the one who understands what's wrong and needs to change. He has goals. Calliope is only as far as recognizing that he has a point and she isn't thrilled with the status quo either. Actually figuring out what she wants is going to take a bit more digging for her. It's kind of the opposite of Vagary repeatedly offending her and Calliope sending him out to yet another class in hopes of patching the gap.
>> This was all Vagary's idea, let him
figure out what to do with it.
Tempting, yes.<<
Also practical: he can see where they need to go, and Calliope can't yet.
>> But when people are doing something *together*, whoever had the idea to start with, both/all people have to invest willingly in it to some extent (though necessarily the exact same extent, it’s okay to make a deal to do 75% and get 25% if one has more spoons/time/whatever) or it’ll just provoke another conflict about priorities and obligations. <<
That's true. They don't necessarily have to reach that immediately, though. When couples seek counseling, even if both are willing, it usually is someone's idea first. That person has a head start on doing the work, because they've already had time to think about and commit to the idea of counseling. The listener has to do that work after being approached on the topic, and then decide how much they're willing to do.
>> And couples counseling isn’t exactly something that can be done not-together, though they each might as well consider looking for individual counseling or another form of personal mental wellness/growth practice while they are at it. <<
You're on the right track there. Both of them have other avenues, which are not directly related to this, and that's helping. Vagary is already committed, because he feels the dysfunctional bond more; he's open to a lot more options. Calliope is still at the shallow end, and will need time to decide how much she's prepared to do and what might seem useful to her.
>>Calliope was startled all over again.
Usually he sucked at boundaries.
Hmmm. Wonder why he got this one? <<
Coaching and practice. Kraken has deep roots in military history. That makes them both very fond of paperwork, and very cautious about safe handling of sensitive materials. Since they deliberately seek out vulnerable, dysfunctional people to recruit that also means they need to be methodical about teaching skills so people can meet expectations.
It's also why Vagary is so quick and clear on the topic of "no hitting at home." They're supervillains; they like to roughhouse; but they must maintain not just discipline but also trust amongst a bunch of rather damaged people. That means putting a lot of effort into making home base a safe place.
Calliope hurt Vagary more from the location of the fight than by busting his lip. And conversely, he doesn't realize that he's been doing exactly the same thing to her. Classes notwithstanding, it doesn't register for him because the only functional socialization he's gotten has been from people who live together. He doesn't see the boundary, because he's not used to having one in that position, and the bond makes Calliope feel close even though they barely know each other.
Which means that once Vagary realizes that he's been making Calliope feel unsafe at home, their counselor is going to need a mop and bucket to scrape that poor boy off the floor. :/
>>
Is she missing it when he does get it rightHow much is she missing it when he does get it right? <<Most of it. The problem is that Vagary so routinely mixes good ideas with horribly troublesome ones, most of the good stuff just gets eclipsed by colossal fuckups.
Take their accidental bonding. It's his fault because if he hadn't been out supervillaining, none of it would have happened. The moment that caused the bonding was when Calliope lost her balance and Vagary tried to catch her: a split second of altruism, because he didn't want her to brain herself on the pavement, had permanent consequences for both of them. Drugging her was a clear violation of boundaries; kidnapping is a transgression of location whose connotations seem quite different in T-America than here. But Vagary still made the right choice in terms of ensuring they could not be split apart immediately. That's a crucial safety parameter in bonding accidents. Pulling people apart too soon can cripple or kill, and in the case of an unplanned bonding, there's a very real risk that one party will panic and run. Calliope may resent what Vagary did, and especially his methodology, but it saved them a lot of extra grief. If he'd tried the less invasive, "Don't move, we have a problem that moving could make it worse," it wouldn't have worked. She had no respect for him and he doesn't have the social skills to pull it off. Vagary went with the safety protocols he knew would work, and which were perfectly acceptable by supervillain standards.
Interestingly, it is similar to the debate in emergency care about whether or not it's ever okay to lie to someone. That might make it possible to keep them safe, but it does a massive amount of damage. They will never believe anything else you say, once they've caught you in a lie; what if you need to convince them of something else? And you've made a godawful mess for other caregivers to deal with too; it's absolutely fatal to help-seeking behavior.
>> How much is this an exception to that tendency, and to what extent is it an exception because he’s trying harder and/or has learned more? <<
It's an exception in that Vagary seems to screw up more often than he gets good ideas. It's more because he's learned more in specific areas, than effort alone -- he's been trying his ass off, with very slow progress. Mostly what he's learning is what pisses off Calliope, which is almost everything about him. That is a sad, frustrating place to be. But one of the things Calliope needs to learn in order for them to make any real progress is to identify and appreciate the things that Vagary does right. If she can't do that, he gets zero payoff for his very difficult work ... and this guy runs on approval and belonging. No gas, no go.
Re: detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 01:37 pm (UTC)Which means that once Vagary realizes that he's been making Calliope feel unsafe at home, their counselor is going to need a mop and bucket to scrape that poor boy off the floor. :/
Oh, dear. And Calliope not only didn't realize that Vagary was there, it looks like she didn't know that anyone was there until Vagary grabbed her. Talk about making someone feel unsafe at home!
Re: detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 05:59 pm (UTC)Calliope has good situational awareness out in the world, but turns it down at home. Remaining alert all the time turns into the hypervigilance part of PTSD when people stop being able to change the setting and it gets stuck on High forever.
A healthy bond normally allows people to sense each other; theirs is neither healthy nor even. So Vagary can sense Calliope a lot more than she can sense him. This sort of imbalance is difficult to remember; it takes a lot of practice to compensate for, like learning to say "the left one" instead of "the red one" when speaking to a colorblind friend.
Vagary's general boundary-blindness -- and the nature of his training with Kraken, where everyone belongs to the same organization -- means that he does not think of doing things like calling ahead or sitting on the curb. So he keeps showing up in places and ways that Calliope resents. He is just barely starting to recognize things like "every time I go in the house she yells." And she's not even rewarding him for that much, because it's eclipsed by the rest of his peskiness.
Calliope is perfectly willing to set boundaries, but has not thought of helping him in any way other than frankly punitive ones. It hasn't occurred to her to say "If you need to reach me, use the telephone or vmail, and we'll arrange a meeting in neutral territory." or even "Sit at the bus stop nearest my house instead of breaking in." Because all of that would require some level of accepting the interaction, and she's just not there yet. She doesn't want him around, and that has stifled her ability to manage the contacts, which has gone far enough to get both of them hurt.
It's just a mess.
Re: detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 09:07 am (UTC)Vagary had cited her emotions when
he wasn't around. That was weird.
Yes. Wonder where that’ll go.<<
That depends on a lot of other factors. It's there because Vagary is shy and generally enjoys seeing without being seen. Add in the fact that Vagary is far more sensitive to the bond, and Calliope's tendency to go apeshit whenever she notices him, and he has overwhelming incentives to hang back outside her perceptive range. This is stalking, which is a lot more illegal in T-America than it is here; but it is less damaging than the fights or than holding back so long the bond fucks over both their rationality which is what led to the garage fight.
Calliope needs to consider which she would find less onerous: allowing Vagary to shadow her, or allowing him to be in mutual contact.
>> Calliope wrote that he saw her for who
she really was, which was not something
that she could get from everyone.
Extremely important. But people can always learn more about each other, and discovering/creating how to be better together is a great form of that.<<
That's true. They really, urgently need to get to know each other better. That's the only way to lessen the sense of wrong-intrusive-doesn'tbelong that makes the bond so uncomfortable. It's like a Chinese finger trap. The only way to stop making it worse is to stop fighting it, but it's extremely hard not to fight something that feels awful.
>> I think her fear of losing this might become a stumbling block in time, but it’s also a motivator to spend positive time together, <<
These two things are equally true. Though I should add, they have to attain neutral before they can begin working toward positive.
>> which she desperately needs if they are going to *try* to be connected instead of fighting it. <<
Yyyyeah. That's the real sticking point. Calliope doesn't want this at all. Vagary didn't want it, but once he had it, was a lot more open to it. It's like watching a couple argue over whether an unplanned pregnancy is an accident or a surprise. Calliope is going to have a very hard time working on a connection that she wishes didn't exist. It has to stop feeling horrible to her before she can even imagine that it might have benefits.
But if she could get that far, the direct experience of Vagary's regard would be a great deal stronger than just the verbal and nonverbal acceptance. She'd have a little internal hand mirror constantly reflecting the fact that her idsig goes girl-girl-girl.
>> It felt weird to agree with Vagary.
Clear. As mud. Yup. They know what happened, what they did to each other, and some of why. But they don’t know what it *means* because they haven’t made a *usable* meaning out of it yet.<<
Exactly. I think it's just too big for them to understand all at once. Normally a relationship grows in slowly. Imagine having one not only arrive in a large chunk, but unevenly so that one person had more than the other. No wonder they can't figure it out.
Re: detailed comments on this one poem
Date: 2016-08-08 09:16 am (UTC)the first to try making up after a fight.
He'd left that part blank for some reason.
Because he’s down on himself to a dangerous extent. Reminds me of depression-brain the way someone I know gets it.<<
That's part of it, because Vagary wasn't appreciated growing up, like many of Kraken's recruits. The other part is that he wants very much to avoid annoying Calliope any further; he's aware that almost everything he does annoys her; and more specifically, he's reluctant to claim any credit for himself because he feels guilty about the whole mess. That's undervaluing himself in a very different and troublesome way. She's never going to tolerate him if she doesn't see the perks of having him around, and she sure as hell isn't spotting many of those herself.
>> "Thank you for making arrangements,"
she said. "You did a thorough job."
"Welcome," Vagary said, giving her
a sidelong look.
Courtesy can be unexpectedly important.<<
That's true for both of them, because they've already formed an expectation of the other mistreating them. Plain old basic courtesy would help a lot, even if it feels weird and stilted for a while. It's better than yelling or hitting.
>>nemesis
Hard to define what this means to them; it keeps changing in ways they aren’t fully aware of. I hope they decide to go for “best frenemies” if not outright “friends.”
Hard to define in general, because people use "nemesis" in different ways. The one part that is generally agreed upon is that it's a committed relationship. I've only seen this part acknowledged in one other culture, my desert bandits, where a nemesis is considered a valid and fulfilling relationship. While it's usually between two people who drive each other bugfuck, Terramagne has a notable trend toward muting that animosity, sometimes a little, other times a lot, occasionally changing to friends or even lovers. There are a whole lot of pairs who want to humiliate or hurt each other, but definitely do not want the other to die on them. It's come up repeatedly. Some characters have even danced around it a bit, like Officer Pink responding to Turq describing them as nemeses with "Hey, warn a guy before you try to go steady with him." And that's not unfounded; mismatches can happen, and it gets ugly when one person is a lot more serious about any relationship than the other. Case in point from another 'verse: Syndrome in the The Incredibles.
>>Yes. This is both a meaningful philosophy-fragment well illustrated by the poem, and a useful piece of built-in meta helping to explain the rest of the poem.<<
Yay! I'm glad it worked.
(no subject)
Date: 2016-08-07 10:43 pm (UTC)Breakfast at Tiffany's
She said "I think I remember the film
And as I recall, I think we both kinda liked it"
And I said "Well, that's the one thing we've got" ♪
(Although, according to Dad, the movie sucked; the only good thing about it, he said, was "Moon River", which won Best Song that year...)
It really says something when somebody as knocked-around as Vagary knows about boundaries, how to get counseling, and generally do a good job with a tough situation...
What's the word, Fernweh?
Yes...
Date: 2016-08-07 11:08 pm (UTC)Yep.
>> It really says something when somebody as knocked-around as Vagary knows about boundaries, how to get counseling, and generally do a good job with a tough situation... <<
What it says is that Terramagne has built up layer upon layer of failsafes, such that people who fall through the first few cracks usually fetch up on a ledge lower down. They might or might not decide to climb back up.
Vagary belongs to Kraken, precisely because they scooped him out of freefall and started teaching him how to fill in skills that he missed. But Kraken's foundlings tend to be pretty wrecked to begin with, so it takes a long time to go from flailing to functional. Vagary is pretty typical of their young field agents: he can do his job, he's a lot happier than he used to be, but when it comes to interpersonal stuff he still has a lot of damage where someone can fall into a hole and break their neck. So he knows about healthy relationships because he's gotten some careful teaching on that topic -- Kraken is very thorough on the topic of what constitutes acceptable roughhousing, what constitutes abuse or excessive force, and the importance of not fighting at home -- it's just a matter of practicing until stuff he missed growing up will become second nature.
There's a lovely sequence of Officer Pink poems that haven't been sponsored yet, which deal with Kyle's college problems and show the layers of failsafes there.
As I've said before, T-American society works like a Tesla fluid valve, and I don't think I'll ever get tired of watching that.
>> What's the word, Fernweh? <<
Homesickness for a place you've never been. <3