>> I have had people boggle when I ask, "Would you like a hug?" and then wait for their answer. <<
Yeah, me too. It's also why I type *hugs offered* as well as *hugs*. I use the former with people I know less well or who are obviously in an edgy mood where they might not want people on them. I use the latter with people I know well enough to tell, pretty accurately, when they want a hug.
It's much the same in person. With people I don't know, I'll ask either verbally or nonverbally. It's something I pay attention to, because while I enjoy hugging I do not enjoy being grabbed and try not to do that to anyone else.
On the other hoof, I think some people are taking verbal consent too far, by trying to force it. See the conflict of intent? It also reduces natural human interaction to a mechanical level usually used only by people who can't do it any other way. They can tell you how not-good-enough it is.
In a healthy relationship between people who know each other, they are observant of cues and fluent in body language as well as words. The point of discussing things at the beginning of a relationship is to establish the baseline. What do these friends or lovers like doing together? When, where, and how do they touch? When are they not comfortable touching? Believe me, if you cannot learn that dance, your relationships are going to suck. It is too exhausting and irritating to ask or be asked before every touch. And hell, some people like surprises. What matters is that people communicate, in some fashion, what they want their parameters to be; and that they respect each other's choices in this regard.
You can see some very delicate, often nonverbal, negotiations between Ansel and Turq about physical and emotional boundaries. Stan and Lawrence have bashed into a bunch of theirs accidentally and had to clean up the mess, but they are actually quite good at that, from Stan dealing with Lawrence's violated boundaries when he was sick to Lawrence helping Stan calm down after he freaked out in their first kiss. Shiv may have a bad habit of knocking into people when he wants physical contact, but he does not for instance make unwanted sexual overtures. Even the supervillain has standards.
>> I SUCK at nonverbal communication, <<
To some extent, it is something which can be studied and memorized. This is tedious but can produce worthwhile results, if one must hand-code the wetware programs due to not having gotten the standard factory package for humans. (I didn't either. I can read body language but many social interactions are just ... what's the point?) Happily there are some excellent resources online, some even with photos.
>> but my verbal use of explicit consent for actions meant to help is apparently really startling. Another one that really gets people, especially kids, is "Do you want to help X? It is totally fine if you do, or if you would rather do what you're doing, or Y or whatever." People aren't accustomed to actual choices without a catch. Sigh. <<
I try to clarify between things that are a free choice with no pressure; things where I would prefer someone do something; and things where I am prepared to insist. "You can help if you want, but guests are not obligated to." "Please set the table." "You are NOT going to stand there doing nothing while the female-bodied people clean up the mess. Pick up the ice and put it in this cup."
>> chanter_greenie, you have no obligation to take this backchannel to spare your audience, but of course you have every right to do so if you don't want all of this discussed publicly! <<
Right, I should've made that clear earlier too. It's always okay to walk away from a conversation.
>> I personally am finding it to be a fascinating conversation, but then I tend to confuse or combine emotional processing with drunk-college-student-at-3-am level philosophizing. <<
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dancing_serpent
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2016-05-13 06:10 am (UTC)Yeah, me too. It's also why I type *hugs offered* as well as *hugs*. I use the former with people I know less well or who are obviously in an edgy mood where they might not want people on them. I use the latter with people I know well enough to tell, pretty accurately, when they want a hug.
It's much the same in person. With people I don't know, I'll ask either verbally or nonverbally. It's something I pay attention to, because while I enjoy hugging I do not enjoy being grabbed and try not to do that to anyone else.
On the other hoof, I think some people are taking verbal consent too far, by trying to force it. See the conflict of intent? It also reduces natural human interaction to a mechanical level usually used only by people who can't do it any other way. They can tell you how not-good-enough it is.
In a healthy relationship between people who know each other, they are observant of cues and fluent in body language as well as words. The point of discussing things at the beginning of a relationship is to establish the baseline. What do these friends or lovers like doing together? When, where, and how do they touch? When are they not comfortable touching? Believe me, if you cannot learn that dance, your relationships are going to suck. It is too exhausting and irritating to ask or be asked before every touch. And hell, some people like surprises. What matters is that people communicate, in some fashion, what they want their parameters to be; and that they respect each other's choices in this regard.
You can see some very delicate, often nonverbal, negotiations between Ansel and Turq about physical and emotional boundaries. Stan and Lawrence have bashed into a bunch of theirs accidentally and had to clean up the mess, but they are actually quite good at that, from Stan dealing with Lawrence's violated boundaries when he was sick to Lawrence helping Stan calm down after he freaked out in their first kiss. Shiv may have a bad habit of knocking into people when he wants physical contact, but he does not for instance make unwanted sexual overtures. Even the supervillain has standards.
>> I SUCK at nonverbal communication, <<
To some extent, it is something which can be studied and memorized. This is tedious but can produce worthwhile results, if one must hand-code the wetware programs due to not having gotten the standard factory package for humans. (I didn't either. I can read body language but many social interactions are just ... what's the point?) Happily there are some excellent resources online, some even with photos.
This one is pretty good and has photos, although it has a sexual slant.
http://bodylanguageproject.com/nonverbal-dictionary/
This one is solid, but without pictures.
http://changingminds.org/techniques/body/body_language.htm
>> but my verbal use of explicit consent for actions meant to help is apparently really startling. Another one that really gets people, especially kids, is "Do you want to help X? It is totally fine if you do, or if you would rather do what you're doing, or Y or whatever." People aren't accustomed to actual choices without a catch. Sigh. <<
I try to clarify between things that are a free choice with no pressure; things where I would prefer someone do something; and things where I am prepared to insist. "You can help if you want, but guests are not obligated to." "Please set the table." "You are NOT going to stand there doing nothing while the female-bodied people clean up the mess. Pick up the ice and put it in this cup."
>> chanter_greenie, you have no obligation to take this backchannel to spare your audience, but of course you have every right to do so if you don't want all of this discussed publicly! <<
Right, I should've made that clear earlier too. It's always okay to walk away from a conversation.
>> I personally am finding it to be a fascinating conversation, but then I tend to confuse or combine emotional processing with drunk-college-student-at-3-am level philosophizing. <<
I agree that it is fascinating.