ysabetwordsmith | Nonhuman Superpowers?

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Nonhuman Superpowers?

We watched the new Godzilla movie today. (Good kaiju movie, excellent special effects and references to other movies, overblown emotional yanking in some places.) It got me thinking about the breadth of superpowers in Terramagne, the setting of my series Polychrome Heroics.

Are superpowers restricted to humans alone -- and if so, why -- or can other species have them also?

My thoughts include:

* Humans share a lot of DNA with other species, especially mammals. This leans toward innate powers appearing elsewhere.

* Radiation and some other factors are increasing the rate of mutation, and thus in this setting, the prevalence of superpowers. Look at the mutated sealife, for example. Environmental factors are likely to affect multiple species, not just one. Imagine visiting Chernobyl only to discover that one of the elk has Laser Eyes.

* Superpower manifestation based on the effect of extraordinary circumstances on human will is unlikely to occur in nonsentient species.

* Superpower manifestation based on higher powers is unlikely to occur in nonsentient species.

* A sperm whale's brain averages 7.8 kilograms. Imagine one with superpowers objecting to how humans treat the ocean.

* Some comics have really gotten into mutated, uplifted, or otherwise modified animals. This includes everything from natural mutation through accidental enhancement to mad science experiments. The results range from cringeworthy to awesome.

* Having something like telepathic trees mindwiping loggers, or superpowered mice in a house, would expand the number of stories that could be told without relying on a human supervillain. (We've HAD superpowered mice here; they are nerve-wracking to deal with.) While mad science could already provide such things, that implies very different plot structure than naturally occurring cases.

Discuss.

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the Rats of NIMH, rather than Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

I'd limit super-animals to areas where they do /not/ draw human attention, like NIMH, as a survival mechanism.

Anything with obvious differences, like the laser eyes you mentioned, is likely to be "destroy, then autopsy" as the /first/ response.

Sea life is more likely to survive without detection just because we use so LITTLE of the actual volume of the oceans. Pond life is waaay more noticeable, and the worst area to "spawn" would be the third-stage treatment plants for large urban water supplies. (The huge, huge water reservoir without the tanks, which is almost-human-potable, but has a few PPM too many of something which breaks down under UV exposure. Water sits and "cures" for anywhere from days to weeks before cycling into the water supply as tap-safe.)

Edited (typo) 2014-05-30 01:34 (UTC)

>> the Rats of NIMH, rather than Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. <<

I loved the Rats of NIMH -- not just for being a cool furry movie, but for diving into a massive lake of ethical issues and scientific implications. That is exactly the kind of story I would enjoy exploring. And there were two explicit superpowers in the movie: Super-Intelligence, and the Amulet which was powered by will/emotion.

>> I'd limit super-animals to areas where they do /not/ draw human attention, like NIMH, as a survival mechanism. <<

In terms of a surviving population, I agree. They would need to be somewhere that humans rarely go and/or to be something humans routinely overlook. The rats could've stayed in the rosebush forever if they hadn't started stealing their human neighbors' electricity.

>> Anything with obvious differences, like the laser eyes you mentioned, is likely to be "destroy, then autopsy" as the /first/ response. <<

I agree. That's not an unreasonable response for humans, either. In terms of individual animals, they might pop up occasionally and be destroyed. This could be something that superheroes are called to deal with -- or something that is usually dismissed as a crank call. For every elk that really has Laser Eyes, there are probably 20+ incidents of:

* "Hey, y'all, watch this!"
* Guy soaks himself with Doe in Heat spray.
* Gets stomped by an ordinary elk that knocks him into his campfire.
* "Warden! That fucking super-elk nuked me with its glowing eyes!

>> Sea life is more likely to survive without detection just because we use so LITTLE of the actual volume of the oceans. <<

Yes, that makes sense. Deep water is a plausible place where a population of super-powered creatures could develop. Then again, shallow water has different potentials: coral is bleaching due to UV radiation and changing water chemistry. Imagine if some corals managed to evolve instead. Super-powered razor coral = O_O

>> Pond life is waaay more noticeable, and the worst area to "spawn" would be the third-stage treatment plants for large urban water supplies. (The huge, huge water reservoir without the tanks, which is almost-human-potable, but has a few PPM too many of something which breaks down under UV exposure. Water sits and "cures" for anywhere from days to weeks before cycling into the water supply as tap-safe.) <<

An obvious development of this is that inspectors or activists spotting super-powered anything near a wastewater plant, factory, etc. would call SPOON and the EPA suspecting that someone was dumping Really Bad Stuff. The official policy would probably be "contain and destroy." But mad scientists are very curious and do not follow rules ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU2a4fjsGIM

Otters, wonderful clips...

But imagine the father otter, Simon, with super-intelligence...

>> Otters, wonderful clips... <<

Awww!

>> But imagine the father otter, Simon, with super-intelligence... <<

That's exactly what I thought when I saw it. Also, otters are tool users.

Idea's all yours. I would enjoy reading this.

Oh, I had another wanna-see idea while watching Godzilla today: characters displaying good cognitive habits instead of bad ones. The father and son got into an argument over studying the earlier event (obsession) vs. walking away from it (denial). I'd like to see characters dealing with trauma in a healthy way, neither obsessing nor denying. And I'd like people to have the option of walking away from abusive or crackpot relatives rather than getting dragged back into the relationship Because Plot. I'd like to see any character displaying distorted thought patterns be confronted by someone else arguing for healthier thought patterns.

Ok, I'm a gene-engineer by training, and I'll admit I've occasionally toyed with the idea of boosting animal intelligence [otters being and obvious non-primate possibility].

Partly because it would be interesting to see what happens, but partly because nature needs advocates who can articulately state their case or alternatively, smart resistance fighters who can stand up to human encroachment.

There's also the fact that in the process of engineering sentience you could figure out the genetic basis for it somewhat better.

>> Ok, I'm a gene-engineer by training, and I'll admit I've occasionally toyed with the idea of boosting animal intelligence <<

I am a hobby-gengineer, with similar interests.

>> [otters being and obvious non-primate possibility]. <<

Talk to

dialecticdreamer who has called dibs on that topic.

>> Partly because it would be interesting to see what happens, but partly because nature needs advocates who can articulately state their case or alternatively, smart resistance fighters who can stand up to human encroachment. <<

Point.

>> There's also the fact that in the process of engineering sentience you could figure out the genetic basis for it somewhat better. <<

Learn by teaching, it's a concept.

I think that mad scientists in Terramagne must be doing things like this, because uplift always seems to occur to mad scientists. Hrm. That could underlie some seemingly wild populations: manmade but either released into the wild on purpose, or escaped somehow and established themselves.

Diane Duane's Young Wizards series has explicitly nonhuman wizards - Deep Wizardry has whales, a dolphin, and a shark as major characters.

I imagine that most people would argue that healthy processing of emotions doesn't make as good drama as poor processing does - but it'd be nice if people didn't therefore think it was normal/okay.

>> Diane Duane's Young Wizards series has explicitly nonhuman wizards - Deep Wizardry has whales, a dolphin, and a shark as major characters. <<

Yes, I love that series. The Book of Night with Moon is another favorite.

>> I imagine that most people would argue that healthy processing of emotions doesn't make as good drama as poor processing does - but it'd be nice if people didn't therefore think it was normal/okay. <<

Okaaayyy ... healthy processing is more work. This is true for the people doing it. I also think that, when handled properly, it generates more plot because the author cannot simply handwave away the problems when done tormenting the characters. Real problems actually have to be solved or at least worked upon; or in a tragedy, proven insurmountable.

Healthy processing: definitely more work. Also it can produce interesting, thought-producing conversations (see also: the entire "Love is for Children" series, haha; you're very good at writing adults trying to react like adults and not sitcom characters) however, I see a distinct difference between plot (something that happens) and drama (a way in which something happens). Tony working through his trauma by participating in game night (plot!) is not the same as Tony responding to his trauma by getting into a shouting match and slamming the door (drama!). Drama is more interesting to film, so there's more of it. (And then you have cultural side-effects, like my husband not realizing how dysfunctional his family of origin was because they acted just like a sitcom family. [They really do; it's weird. If I want to figure out how my mother-in-law will react to something I just have to think about sitcom moms from the 80's and it'll be pretty close.])

Then again, I had to stop reading Mercedes Lackey books when half her interpersonal plots could be solved by the participants having a damn conversation. I've lost all patience for characters whose lives would be profoundly simpler if they read Captain Awkward. XD

>> Healthy processing: definitely more work. Also it can produce interesting, thought-producing conversations <<

Yes, exactly.

>> (see also: the entire "Love is for Children" series, haha; you're very good at writing adults trying to react like adults and not sitcom characters) <<

Thank you!

>> however, I see a distinct difference between plot (something that happens) and drama (a way in which something happens). <<

Oh. I thought we were talking about drama in the theatrical sense (opposite of comedy) rather than histrionic sense.

>> Drama is more interesting to film, so there's more of it. <<

Gods, NO, I hate that kind of drama. I hate it in real life and have very little tolerance for it in entertainment. I consider it a flaw, in the same category as buckets of blood, nekkid boobies, or cheesy special effects -- something that directors whip out when they don't know how to create real substance. Turn it off.

>> (And then you have cultural side-effects, like my husband not realizing how dysfunctional his family of origin was because they acted just like a sitcom family. [They really do; it's weird. If I want to figure out how my mother-in-law will react to something I just have to think about sitcom moms from the 80's and it'll be pretty close.]) <<

O_O *everything is spiders*

>> Then again, I had to stop reading Mercedes Lackey books when half her interpersonal plots could be solved by the participants having a damn conversation. <<

:( Not all of the later books are like that, although I do miss the glory days. The Elemental Wizards series is very plotty.

>> I've lost all patience for characters whose lives would be profoundly simpler if they read Captain Awkward. XD <<

Agreed.

Mutated animals, though not the superpowers part, unless sentience is a superpower, reminds me of "Fear Nothing" and "Seize The Night" by Dean Koontz.

If it's not standard for a species, then yes, sentience would reasonably count as a superpower.

not sure this is within your genre, but tolkien's ents are (roughly) superpowered trees.

I did think of that. Tolkien also had storm giants of stone. The Ring of Doom was mutagenic, strong enough to affect even adults; the orcs were mutated elves; and the soil from Lothlorien was mutagenic in a more positive way.

If I were going to do something with mutated and/or super-powered trees, I would probably look at things that trees actually do and just ... soup it up. Like alder groves are already near-immortal; with true immortality and/or regeneration they could withstand fires. Redwoods are terraformers; not far to weather control. Bristlecone pines are fireproof, and another species that's extremely long-lived; fire powers are plausible. Willow roots can break through damn near anything; that's super-strength. Sugar maples can warn each other about insect attacks; telepathy.

It would only require a slight mutation to produce trees who's root systems act like a synaptic neural network.

Easiest to do that with the alders or redwoods, two species who already have a very high integration. Alder groves are really one massive organism. Redwoods ... uh, scientists haven't figured out yet how they do what they do.

I'm not so sure cats don't count as super-powered already. You do know Chernobyl has a feral cat colony living in the remains of the reactor core... because it stays nice and warm during winter... and apparently they suffer no ill-effects from continuous exposure to radiation levels that would kill a human within minutes.

Hmm... there's an idea, 'and the cat came back' i.e a breed of immortal, indestructible cats. Now all they'd need is opposable thumbs and a higher IQ and both traits already exist among other cat populations. Of course, being cats, I'd doubt world domination would actually be an objective for them. Too much effort!

Oh well, just so long as it's not super-powered cockroaches... [Marvel did that one, it was gross.]

With the high mutability of feline genetics, I suspect some of those cats are already developing new capabilities.

In fact, Leslie Fish had the idea of breeding cats for intelligence. She got quite far with it: Mrrrp the Magnificent was a tool-user.

>>I'm not so sure cats don't count as super-powered already.<<

Well, they have a healing purr, and survive trauma so well they're said to have 9 lives. It's not far from there to superpowers. Oh, and we had a cat who could walk through walls -- named Pixel for that precise ability.

>> You do know Chernobyl has a feral cat colony living in the remains of the reactor core... because it stays nice and warm during winter... and apparently they suffer no ill-effects from continuous exposure to radiation levels that would kill a human within minutes. <<

I had not heard of the cats, though I have heard of other wildlife there. Power Absorption kitties, yikes.

>> Hmm... there's an idea, 'and the cat came back' i.e a breed of immortal, indestructible cats. <<

It could work.

>> Now all they'd need is opposable thumbs and a higher IQ and both traits already exist among other cat populations. Of course, being cats, I'd doubt world domination would actually be an objective for them. Too much effort! <<

There are polydactyl cats who have opposable digits.

>> Oh well, just so long as it's not super-powered cockroaches... [Marvel did that one, it was gross.] <<

I have sentient cockroaches, although not super ones, over in Submerged Nebraska. So I probably won't do those in Polychrome Heroics.

They aren't a hive consciousness and able to burrow into a person's brain and use them as a meat puppet are they? [yes, Marvels were sentient, scarily smart, everywhere...and not friendly.]

Granted, there are polydactyl cats with 'thumbs' and there are Margay's cats... who have actual opposable thumbs and can interbreed with domestic cats to produce fertile offspring with thumbs. Then there's LeFish cats... Leslie Fish's cats whom she's been breeding for intelligence for the last 30 years. [with some success.]

The Chernobyl cats are something of a curiosity. You see, there's a whole ecosystem in there now... there's a type of black 'fungus' that uses the high levels of radiation in much the same way as a plant uses light. [actually, it's not certain if it's a fungus or a lichen since it sort-of photosynthesises.] There are bugs that live off the fungus, and rats and mice that live off the bugs...and at the top the cats, who live off the rats and mice. All of whom have adapted to the high radiation levels...

Well, it was initially thought they'd adapted. But close study of the genes showed that the traits had been there all along... the mice & rats are actually derived from a strain normally found in the Sudan/Sini region, and probably came in on a ship. The fungus is common just about everywhere and is found on granite... and cats as you know come from desert ancestors.

Which points back to the natural nuclear reactor that went melt down in Africa and produced conditions very similar to the reactor core at Chernobyl. After that, evolution set in...

Which I suppose makes for a heck of an origin story!

I've heard a number of stories of dogs who were smarter than their owners.

You must remember, animals can be very, very smart; but they have very limited priorities and think very differently from humans. Your dog knows exactly how to get the food off the counter when you aren't looking. Your cat knows exactly which objects to knock off your dresser to get you up in the morning (usually all of them). And your horse knows exactly which animals can be bullied without you caring... which some will do mercilessly, while others may protect them instead.

>> You must remember, animals can be very, very smart; but they have very limited priorities and think very differently from humans. <<

I think the different priorities make for interesting stories when played right.

>> And your horse knows exactly which animals can be bullied without you caring... which some will do mercilessly, while others may protect them instead. <<

Horses are also very rank-conscious. Feed them in reverse order and they'll freak out.

You want to write a story together? The prompt is that "superpower" is a relative term. In the story, the people of Krypton are amazed at the Earth people who have the "superpower" of handling Kryptonite without harm.

They discount their own strength and ability to fly, because what has it gotten them? If you bend steel in your bare hands, it is nothing special if everyone you know, your baby brother or sister included, can do the same thing. So if you get in a fight with another citizen of Krypton, you're evenly matched.

But watch out for Earthlings with Kryptonite!

-----

Meanwhile, how many animals can:

o fly?
o see in the dark?
o detect earthquakes long before humans?

There are chilling stories of tsunami victims that pulled out their cell phones and started recording videos, while animals like dogs had immediately raced for the hills. A real question of what intelligence really is.

>> You want to write a story together? The prompt is that "superpower" is a relative term. In the story, the people of Krypton are amazed at the Earth people who have the "superpower" of handling Kryptonite without harm. <<

Indeed, I am using "superpower" as a relative term. It means being able to do something far outside the standard for your species. Some of them come with a whole new ability (Laser Eyes) but others are just pushing the envelope a lot farther (Super-Intellect). So a human with Super-Intellect would be like Einstein. It's one of the more common powers. A cat with Super-Intellect would be like a smart human. A whale with Super-Intellect in a much bigger brain could well leave Einstein in the dust.

Another very common ability is Gizmology or Super-Gizmology. Tool use in a non-tool-using species would be Gizmology; an animal using human tools is Super-Gizmology. Notice that we have animals doing these things. This is what happens when a Gizmologist has a dog who is a Super-Gizmologist. That dog is a tool-user applying a three-step process: fetch ball, load gizmo, fire gizmo. Quite sophisticated thinking for a canine. This is especially apt because Super-Intelligence and Super-Gizmology, rather than being granted by freak accidents, are among the abilities most likely to develop slowly in response to external stimulation.

>> Meanwhile, how many animals can:

o fly?
o see in the dark?
o detect earthquakes long before humans? <<

It is not a handicap for humans to be unable to fly; that's normal for us. But a hawk that can't fly is handicapped, and a human who used to have Flight but lost it is also handicapped. It is not a superpower for hawks to fly; that's ordinary for them. It is a superpower for humans to fly without assistance. I suspect that many superpowers are simply coming out of the kitchen junk drawer that is DNA.

>> There are chilling stories of tsunami victims that pulled out their cell phones and started recording videos, while animals like dogs had immediately raced for the hills. A real question of what intelligence really is. <<

Ah, but humans are a high-communication species. Other species -- mostly prey animals -- give warning calls even at the expense of their own safety. Wow, now the totem theorist in me is wondering if people who film tsunamis are more likely to have high-signalling totems such as prairie dogs.

> > started recording videos, while animals like dogs

> Ah, but humans are a high-communication species.
> Other species -- mostly prey animals -- give
> warning calls even at the expense of their own
> safety. Wow, now the totem theorist in me is
> wondering if people who film tsunamis are more
> likely to have high-signalling totems such as
> prairie dogs.

Ah, very good! The "communication" idea would apply to the first few ones, some of which might have thought "I have to record this, there are no color videos of real tidal waves in action", as in, it will benefit the human race to finally have that knowledge.

And I've always thought that most of the rest were thinking "If I can get this action into my phone, then I can sell it and better provide for my children and partner", a possibly noble reason to risk life for the betterment of the family.

So I think you have an excellent thought there.

Edited 2014-06-01 11:55 (UTC)

>> So I think you have an excellent thought there, and if you would forgive
me if I presume to offer a suggestion, it is good to ponder superheroes
that use their gifts to help the species . . . <<

I have a whole series on that topic.

>> . . . but why do they do it? <<

Different reasons, including but not limited to:
* Protect and serve.
* Money.
* It feels good to do what you do well.
* Vocation.
* A sense of duty.
* Feeling that nobody else can do what they do.
* Making up for past wrongs.
* Honoring someone's memory.
* Wanting to fix their little corner of the world. Or all of it.

>> There was a good episode of This American
Life on superheroes, and one segment included a fellow who had been
asking people to speculate on the subject in a personal way -- what
power would you want? and what would you do with it? -- and reported
that not one of them ever said they'd use it to fight crime. <<

Then it's incomplete: there are some people doing just that.

Most people with extraordinary gifts don't use them for fighting crime, though, or at least not directly. There are lost of other problems that need solving.

Babbage! You grabbed that paragraph before I deleted it.

But since you got it ... he asked folks at parties whether they'd want the ability to fly, or the ability to become invisible, and one of the followup questions was what they'd want to do with it. I am the one that passed a prompt for RLSH to your fishbowl a good while ago, and you wrote a righteous poem about them. Good stuff.

Your list is very very good. There are good stories there, "making up for past wrongs" looks interesting.

>> he asked folks at parties whether they'd want the ability to fly, or the ability to become invisible, and one of the followup questions was what they'd want to do with it. <<

Depends on the power, really, and the person.

>> I am the one that passed a prompt for RLSH to your fishbowl a good while ago, and you wrote a righteous poem about them. Good stuff. <<

Thank you! Next fishbowl is Tuesday, June 3 with a theme of "first contact."

>> Your list is very very good. There are good stories there, "making up for past wrongs" looks interesting. <<

Feel free to prompt for any of them that you like. "Making up for past wrongs" is a popular one in comics history, but every character plays it differently. Iron Man, Hulk, and Black Widow all share that one.

The "elk shooting eye-beams" thing made me laugh for real.

Hey, octopi are brilliant, how about a mutation that gave them a long lifespan and the ability/ desire to work together? They'd probably wind up with a civilization eventually.

I've been reading comics lately and I imagine that having a high-school level biology education is a disqualifying factor for writing them.

Though I really did like the "new 52" Swamp Thing.

>> The "elk shooting eye-beams" thing made me laugh for real. <<

As much as I support responsible hunting, I believe that nature maintains a balance between predator and prey. Humans have been shooting at wildlife for tens of thousands of years. In a setting with a high mutagenic factor, it is logical to project that wildlife will eventually learn to shoot back. After all, there are already skunks and bombadier beetles, and the spitting cobras turned out to be real after all.

>> Hey, octopi are brilliant, how about a mutation that gave them a long lifespan and the ability/ desire to work together? They'd probably wind up with a civilization eventually. <<

Feel free to prompt for it. Just remember that evolution usually works slowly. In order to create a stable population quickly, you need a widespread game-changing force.

Frex, two species of Hawaiian cricket rapidly evolved from noisy to silent in response to parasites. THIS is why you do not wipe out your handicapped members. A few male crickets went from unfuckable cripples to "the last man on Earth" and saved the cricket population from extinction. Silence went from a devastating handicap to a survival need. You just never know what you might need.

Another possibility raised elsewhere is factories, power plants, or other sources of pollution dumping it into the waterways. The Gulf of Mexico now has deformed sealife.

Feel free to prompt for super-powered cephalopods if you wish; I quite admire these creatures. *chuckle* Especially the supervillain octopus that one aquarium store caught on camera eventually. I could totally work with that.

>> I've been reading comics lately and I imagine that having a high-school level biology education is a disqualifying factor for writing them. <<

Often it seems that way. On the other hoof, superhero science is like cartoon physics -- it has its own rules. I'm okay with working in dimensions whose fundamental laws are different from our own. Farthest I've gone with that is nether-Earth but Terramagne is pretty different in certain specific ways. Frex, Super-Strength comes with a force-manipulation ability that makes it possible to life large things without tearing them apart. It stands to reason that Super-Size: Giant would come with the ability to bend rules making it possible to survive, although I do tend to use living or fossilized creatures as reference points.

Thanks, I may just do the octopi prompt. Through natural evolution it might take millions of years, but I don't want to say "aliens did it" either. Hmm. Maybe you can figure that one out. :p

I understand about cartoon biology (like people being super-strong and never having to worry about joint problems or people shooting lasers from their eyes) but I guess I have a low threshold for belief suspension. I do like the occasional nod to reality.

Oh and thank you so much for the Gulf story.

Watching the spill play out hit me on a very personal level.

People are pushing the "everything is fine!" thing pretty hard about the Gulf and I agree that at least everything isn't dead there, but something's still fishy.

I have no plans to eat out of that water in this lifetime. I don't care if the experts claim it is "safe." Their credibility is shit with me.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Nonhuman Superpowers?

I'd start with-

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Sorry, rambling.

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