>> Okay, can I talk for a minute about the awesomeness that is your version of JARVIS in this story, and more importantly this chapter? <<
Sure! I'm glad you like it so much.
>> The way he code-shifts from his regular vocab (which is usually excellent) to a more basic form because he's putting Hulk's understanding first is great. <<
Sooth. JARVIS has excellent user-interface protocols so he can adapt to each person's needs, but it does take time and input to do.
>> Especially because of the level of empathy necessary for that. A level of empathy that a lot of humans lack, so it's really incredible to see it in a being that is not only programmed but was raised by TONY STARK, who has a noticeable lack of empathy in some situations. <<
Remember that JARVIS has two daddies: Tony Stark and Edwin Jarvis. A butler needs good ability to anticipate and adapt to people's needs, and some of that came through the materials that Tony used to program JARVIS.
>> Then I thought about it a bit more. And realised I was doing Tony a disservice. Of COURSE JARVIS learned code shifting from Tony. <<
That too, although the style is different between Tony and Edwin. Something else interesting that Tony does? He can shift his class. Clearly he had a tight bond with the butler, and he had to have learned blacksmithing somewhere. Those are not the skills of a wealthy heir.
>> Tony is constantly code shifting, he lets it slip a little during the battle on the helicarrier in the Avengers (maybe because he's talking to Cap, maybe because he had a conversation on the science level with Bruce and it was hard switching back, or maybe because, you know, there's a battle going on) <<
I think Tony locked on Bruce and had trouble letting go, because he didn't want to. Tony is extremely sapioaffectionate. He took one look at Bruce and went *SQUISH* like a big wet sponge.
>> but he notices Cap's confused (It seems to run on some kind of electricity) and corrects himself in a way that Cap can understand, glossing over Cap's lack of understanding with a quick quip. <<
Cap actually did a great job with the electrical panel there, which is something he and Tony will discuss eventually.
>> And when you think about the fact that Tony has been giving weapons and technology presentations to business men and army generals who would have little to no knowledge of science and technology (think of the beginning of Iron Man one, there were soldiers (both American and local) that he had to put the Jericho's concept across to and make friends with). <<
Yes, that too. Tony is a brilliant salesman, which requires reading an audience and speaking their language.
>> Also, how often must JARVIS have wished to have hands and the ability to go and sit with/hug people who are upset? <<
JARVIS often wishes that he could do more for people. He has mixed feelings about hands, though. Ideally, he would like more ways of interacting that feel right for him, not just copying someone else's ways. He is really, really not a hominid and not comfortable with the idea of a bipedal body of his very own.
>> I mean, a lot of time when dealing with Tony he seems long suffering and resigned to letting things happen. <<
Yes, that's true. Their relationship is complex. JARVIS lets Tony get away with ignoring good advice because he doesn't want to pressure Tony, but it still makes him unhappy to see.
>> I mean, giving him control of the armour could mean that JARVIS could physically go in and hug/deal with/help Tony when he's drinking enough to kill his liver or injured or whatever. <<
That is potentially possible; there are ways for JARVIS to take control if Tony gets injured. But it's creepy at best and scary at worst. If you've seen Pacific Rim, compare it to piloting a Jaeger alone.
>> But then you have to consider the body dismorphia that would come from switching from having a whole tower as his body/under his control to a completely different form of existence. <<
Exactly. Even interfacing with the material world, rather than cyberspace, is a bit of a stretch for JARVIS; but he's used to that. Having a humanoid body feels dysphoric to him. He's perfectly comfortable sharing the suit with Tony because it's an interface between the two of them that allows them a great deal of intimacy in ways they both relish. But without that support from someone naturally bipedal, JARVIS wouldn't be comfortable with it.
He shouldn't have to be. It's okay for JARVIS to be himself, an artificial intelligence, a smart home, and not have to fake being humanoid just to make other people happy.
>> And then I started thinking about it too much. <<
But I like it when I make people think!
>> About JARVIS's existence versus Dummy's and whether JARVIS would take on a physical form in the armour and come give hugs/help if necessary. <<
As an emergency function, JARVIS could run the armor alone, and he would do it for the sake of taking care of his people; but I doubt anything less would do it. Developing other options will take time and creativity, and we'll see more of that as the team coaxes him into family interaction more. That's what allows them to see what is missing and what they could do to fill those gaps.
>> If he has Tony's permission to do that and if he would feel comfortable doing that. <<
Permission, yes; comfort, not so much.
>> If he's not coming to sit with Hulk in the armour because he would be uncomfortable or if he's not coming because he thinks that JARVIS in the armour would confuse/frighten Hulk. <<
Both. Hulk is touchy and skittish right after he has come out spontaneously.
>> And this is why I love your stories. They aren't just great stories for feeling good but they make you think and deal with key issues. So go you. :) <<
Thank you!
Sure! I'm glad you like it so much.
>> The way he code-shifts from his regular vocab (which is usually excellent) to a more basic form because he's putting Hulk's understanding first is great. <<
Sooth. JARVIS has excellent user-interface protocols so he can adapt to each person's needs, but it does take time and input to do.
>> Especially because of the level of empathy necessary for that. A level of empathy that a lot of humans lack, so it's really incredible to see it in a being that is not only programmed but was raised by TONY STARK, who has a noticeable lack of empathy in some situations. <<
Remember that JARVIS has two daddies: Tony Stark and Edwin Jarvis. A butler needs good ability to anticipate and adapt to people's needs, and some of that came through the materials that Tony used to program JARVIS.
>> Then I thought about it a bit more. And realised I was doing Tony a disservice. Of COURSE JARVIS learned code shifting from Tony. <<
That too, although the style is different between Tony and Edwin. Something else interesting that Tony does? He can shift his class. Clearly he had a tight bond with the butler, and he had to have learned blacksmithing somewhere. Those are not the skills of a wealthy heir.
>> Tony is constantly code shifting, he lets it slip a little during the battle on the helicarrier in the Avengers (maybe because he's talking to Cap, maybe because he had a conversation on the science level with Bruce and it was hard switching back, or maybe because, you know, there's a battle going on) <<
I think Tony locked on Bruce and had trouble letting go, because he didn't want to. Tony is extremely sapioaffectionate. He took one look at Bruce and went *SQUISH* like a big wet sponge.
>> but he notices Cap's confused (It seems to run on some kind of electricity) and corrects himself in a way that Cap can understand, glossing over Cap's lack of understanding with a quick quip. <<
Cap actually did a great job with the electrical panel there, which is something he and Tony will discuss eventually.
>> And when you think about the fact that Tony has been giving weapons and technology presentations to business men and army generals who would have little to no knowledge of science and technology (think of the beginning of Iron Man one, there were soldiers (both American and local) that he had to put the Jericho's concept across to and make friends with). <<
Yes, that too. Tony is a brilliant salesman, which requires reading an audience and speaking their language.
>> Also, how often must JARVIS have wished to have hands and the ability to go and sit with/hug people who are upset? <<
JARVIS often wishes that he could do more for people. He has mixed feelings about hands, though. Ideally, he would like more ways of interacting that feel right for him, not just copying someone else's ways. He is really, really not a hominid and not comfortable with the idea of a bipedal body of his very own.
>> I mean, a lot of time when dealing with Tony he seems long suffering and resigned to letting things happen. <<
Yes, that's true. Their relationship is complex. JARVIS lets Tony get away with ignoring good advice because he doesn't want to pressure Tony, but it still makes him unhappy to see.
>> I mean, giving him control of the armour could mean that JARVIS could physically go in and hug/deal with/help Tony when he's drinking enough to kill his liver or injured or whatever. <<
That is potentially possible; there are ways for JARVIS to take control if Tony gets injured. But it's creepy at best and scary at worst. If you've seen Pacific Rim, compare it to piloting a Jaeger alone.
>> But then you have to consider the body dismorphia that would come from switching from having a whole tower as his body/under his control to a completely different form of existence. <<
Exactly. Even interfacing with the material world, rather than cyberspace, is a bit of a stretch for JARVIS; but he's used to that. Having a humanoid body feels dysphoric to him. He's perfectly comfortable sharing the suit with Tony because it's an interface between the two of them that allows them a great deal of intimacy in ways they both relish. But without that support from someone naturally bipedal, JARVIS wouldn't be comfortable with it.
He shouldn't have to be. It's okay for JARVIS to be himself, an artificial intelligence, a smart home, and not have to fake being humanoid just to make other people happy.
>> And then I started thinking about it too much. <<
But I like it when I make people think!
>> About JARVIS's existence versus Dummy's and whether JARVIS would take on a physical form in the armour and come give hugs/help if necessary. <<
As an emergency function, JARVIS could run the armor alone, and he would do it for the sake of taking care of his people; but I doubt anything less would do it. Developing other options will take time and creativity, and we'll see more of that as the team coaxes him into family interaction more. That's what allows them to see what is missing and what they could do to fill those gaps.
>> If he has Tony's permission to do that and if he would feel comfortable doing that. <<
Permission, yes; comfort, not so much.
>> If he's not coming to sit with Hulk in the armour because he would be uncomfortable or if he's not coming because he thinks that JARVIS in the armour would confuse/frighten Hulk. <<
Both. Hulk is touchy and skittish right after he has come out spontaneously.
>> And this is why I love your stories. They aren't just great stories for feeling good but they make you think and deal with key issues. So go you. :) <<
Yay! I love hearing that.