The Wordsmith's Forge

I hadn't seen the funnel style before. I pick fruit with a baggie held in my mouth. But the apron would work better for big things like apples.

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They've make the front of the apron into a tube rather than a flat piece of fabric, and then made it possible to loop it up.

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Wearing an apron would mean I'd have to wear a whole extra layer of clothing! (When I've wasted a day doing something in public that wound up not working, or taking a long time withoug accomplishing much, my usual comment is, "I put on clothes for this?") I appreciate the opportunities for pockets, but then I'd be wearing underwear, pants, a shirt, and an apron (and I can't get the interior of my house cold enough now to make wearing clothes an appealing idea). I suppose someone could figure out an apron-like garment that can be worn over underwear or bare skin, but I'm not sure it's possible to make such a thing comfortable, as in "not a dress, dammit".

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In that regard, consider a half-apron, or smaller still, a tool belt. Lagenlook aprons really are intended as another layer.

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Layering makes sense when your surroundings are cold. I tried making myself a utility belt, but it was uncomfortable - awkward sizes and shapes made of scratchy fabrics, banging against each other and against my sweaty skin. and usually more in the way rather than helpful.

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>> Layering makes sense when your surroundings are cold.<<

It works best in variable conditions because you can add or remove layers to stay comfortable. However, it also works in hot conditions if you use the right materials. You need very light, gauzy stuff. There are now many garments sold for sun protection including hats, hoodies, pants, and skirts. The nice thing about layering is you once you get indoors, you can take off the sunscreen layer and lounge around in your shorter stuff.

>> I tried making myself a utility belt, but it was uncomfortable - awkward sizes and shapes made of scratchy fabrics, banging against each other and against my sweaty skin. and usually more in the way rather than helpful.<<

Bummer. Building a good utility belt requires skill to make it secure and reasonably comfortable. You might try cutting the yoke out of a pair of jeans or work pants if it's the seat that gives out first. Then build the utility pouches onto that base.

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In July at the Jersey Shore, even the gauziest layers can be too hot. (Well, even no clothes at all can be too hot. But it's dangerous to cook stir-fry in the nude.)

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Or bacon. O_O

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Bacon and stir-fries are things I cook quite often; we had bacon and eggs for dinner last night, and stir-fry the night before (and I've made a few stir-fries that included bacon) ;-)

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Okay, define "not a dress". You have to wear a shirt anyway. How would you feel about making a sleeveless tank-top type thing in a woven fabric (i.e. not stretchy, because stretch and pockets are ugliness waiting to happen), about 6 inches longer than standard (essentially tunic length) with the same kind of pocket strip across the front at the bottom? Because that would be dead-easy to design. (Says the dressmaker whose head is drawing pattern pieces as she types....)

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>> i.e. not stretchy, because stretch and pockets are ugliness waiting to happen <<

Believe it or not, that seems to be one of the current fashions: big saggy pockets. 0_o I'm seeing it in the lagenlook stuff.

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Big pockets that match each other are one thing. Big pockets that sag because they're stretched out of shape? I consider that poor design. Of course I may be in a minority there.

The problem with big saggy pockets designed that way is that if they're set at an angle they'll dump whatever is put in them if the wearer moves the wrong way, like leaning over to the side. I have a jacket that looks like the pockets should be perfectly adequate, and feels like it when I stick my hand in - but the minute I sit down and change the angle at which they sit, the contents spill out all over my chair, or my car, or whatever. I consider that a major #pocketfail. They either need to be an inch higher, or set at less of an angle (which I can't fix), or about 3 inches deeper. As it stands I can put gloves in there (non-slippery), but they won't hold onto either my phone or a tube of lip balm. So if I'm designing? Non-saggy pockets.

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>>Big pockets that match each other are one thing. Big pockets that sag because they're stretched out of shape? I consider that poor design. Of course I may be in a minority there. <<

It is poor design. Since the feature is hyped, I gather it is for fashion purposes.

The problem with big saggy pockets designed that way is that if they're set at an angle they'll dump whatever is put in them if the wearer moves the wrong way, like leaning over to the side.<<

I have that problem with some pants. Occasionally it can be fixed by throwing a few stitches along the opening, but that relies on having a large enough opening to sacrifice a quarter-inch or so to create a trap. Another reason is if the pocket is lined with slick material, as coat pockets often are, and there's not fixing that unless you re-line the damn thing with more tractive fabric. >_<

>>I consider that a major #pocketfail. <<

Sustained.

On the garments I saw, the fashion-saggy pockets appeared to be horizontally aligned patch pockets on the front or sides. That doesn't meant things will stay put, though.

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zeeth_kyrah

Alternately, a fastener. My winter-weight jacket has zippers on its outer pockets, and a Velcro square on the inner pocket for just-in-case.

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That sounds like a housecoat, which is to say a gendered version of an artist's smock or a lab coat.

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Neither that long nor that loose, but the general shape is right.

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As a wide-shouldered vertically condensed person my notions of length and loose are not accurate. Ask me about the hazards of a full length skirt from a standard pattern. Yup, I think the hem was originally the knee.

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That's quite the image. I don't have to ask; I managed an alterations department for about 2 years, and made custom formals to put myself through college. And in my current life, I buy pants listed as "cropped" length for my mom, because a standard inseam is 29-30", and my mom's inseam is 25". It's even difficult to hem them up that much because the legs taper.

I am also broad-shouldered. I learned to make my own suits (I'm a retired attorney, so suits were an absolute necessity) for that reason. Size 12 in the shoulders and upper back, size 6 in around my torso (back in the day; now I'm a 20 all over) - by the time something fit in the shoulders it hung like a sack everywhere else, and if it fit in the torso I could tear out the shoulders the first time I put my arms forward.

So, definitions: "Loose" is more than 6 inches of ease. If my blouse is more than 6" greater in diameter than I am, I consider it loose. Shoulders/upper back should have enough ease to move freely.

Long is defined in reference to the body it goes on. Standard shirt length should be 4-6" below your waist...wherever that is. Tunic length is about 2-4" longer.

So I'm not talking about or going by "standard" measurements. I'm talking about what would be comfortably loose but not baggy, and of a reasonable length, on you, not on some mythical "average person".

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A shift generally speaking would have enough ease and (maybe) length to use the full Xena girding method and you just might also rescue a bantam hen in the bodice. (Because if you have to full Xena, you're going to need that hen to rebuild.)

I wish shirts came in standard length. There is no reason I should have shirts that don't stay tucked. Or sleeves that are too short.

Edited ((maybe)) Date: 2019-06-30 02:36 am (UTC)

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>>(Because if you have to full Xena, you're going to need that hen to rebuild.)<<

LOL! Thank you!

>>There is no reason I should have shirts that don't stay tucked. Or sleeves that are too short.<<

I couldn't agree more. :(

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"Ma'am, your middle breast seems to be clucking."

Given that I'm a half-size and nothing is in half-sizes (at least not patterns) and I am good in a man's size 40 jacket as far as the shoulders are concerned, I should have tails aplenty. And I do if I buy my shirts by neck size. Distaff shirts for some reason want to divulge things better kept undercover.

And why don't they put the shirt pockets on the sleeves, when it's a blouse?

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I suspect that fashion designers believe most women will buy whatever they're told to buy that season, and this is likely true of many women.

I also think that many other women only put up with bad designs for lack of better options, because plenty of small businesses that start up to solve clothing problems wind up doing quite well.

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There has been a concerted effort since the 1960s to make sure that women are paying a premium to be as poorly dressed as possible.
I recommend reading The Lost Art of Dress.

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Partly because most women used to make their own clothes, and few do that any longer. It leaves them vulnerable to exploitation. I really like being able to say, "Fine, fuck it, I'll do it myself."

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Yep. And when one is buying retail fabric, one cannot compete against fast fashion, even if one has skills and a sewing machine already.

And it's very hard to find good patterns that address sizing issues. (I know that the catalogs of patterns for several lines are now open source, but printing them is going to be a deal.)

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>> Yep. And when one is buying retail fabric, one cannot compete against fast fashion, even if one has skills and a sewing machine already. <<

That depends on what you are trying beat them at. I made better looking and fitting clothes in high school. Probably before then. Cheaper? Well, maybe not cheaper to make. But if you divide the cost by number of wears, then cheaper over the life of the product. Hell, the only place I can leave a raw seam on a garment is inside a collar. Everything else is rolled or Frenched or otherwise finished.

>> And it's very hard to find good patterns that address sizing issues. (I know that the catalogs of patterns for several lines are now open source, but printing them is going to be a deal.) <<

True, but I have found that drafting isn't that hard. It's harder than making an easy pattern, but it's easier than making something fussy like a fitted blouse. It gets even easier when you look at base concepts -- there are only so many ways to make a sleeve hole or a bodice or a skirt, even if there are a zillion fashion variations on sleeves or trim. Once you have the measurements and a garment in mind, the pattern almost draws itself; it's just a little geometry and connect-the-dots.

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It really depends on how good you are at finding fabric, how good you are at picking your capsule pieces, and if you've got the leisure. Also how quickly you need something and if you can borrow someone for any Two person preferable stages.

And now even 'pricey' fabrics aren't needfully very good quality, and life is too short sewing bad cloth.

The Lost Art of Dress gives an account of a woman who back in the day had such boss skills she could look at a thrift shop item, know that it was sufficient for her cut down needs, and then utterly remake the garment into something no one would guess had had a prior life.

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>>It really depends on how good you are at finding fabric, how good you are at picking your capsule pieces, and if you've got the leisure. Also how quickly you need something and if you can borrow someone for any Two person preferable stages.<<

Agreed.

>> And now even 'pricey' fabrics aren't needfully very good quality, and life is too short sewing bad cloth.<<

I love the latter part as a quote. :D

I do know one reliable source for high-quality fabric, quilt shops, but expect to pay through the nose for it.

>>The Lost Art of Dress gives an account of a woman who back in the day had such boss skills she could look at a thrift shop item, know that it was sufficient for her cut down needs, and then utterly remake the garment into something no one would guess had had a prior life.<<

Impressive!

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>>life is too short sewing bad cloth.<<

I love the latter part as a quote. :D

Needs to be cross-stitched in a biker/tattoo script.

Quilt shops tend not to be on bus routes. I miss when regular fabric shops could make their money turning over their stock and weren't gambling on Ladies That Power Suit Lunch buying a serger.

The book is well worth the read, that story is just one of many that should have more distribution.

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I've made clothes for myself and for friends. I find that highly tailored items with a lot of pieces are more trouble than they're worth, but simple skirts with a drawstring or elastic waist are fast, easy, affordable, flattering and flexible. I usually don't make them with pockets, because I use belt pouches at a faire, but it wouldn't be hard to add seam pockets.

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One can also use drawstrings to make more tailored appearance out of one size fits range garments, such as with a shirtwaist.

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The opposite is true for tall people, who effectively can't find maxiskirts.

I've discovered that people think short females have no curves. I don't know why. But if I find sleeves that fit, a deep breath usually pops the buttons; by the time I can get my tits into a shirt, the sleeves are falling past my hands. One reason I buy men's shirts sometimes is because they're often cut loose enough to fit -- and have 2-3 buttons on the cuffs so I can close those around my wrists.

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"You're only the height of a 10 year old, why would you have anything they don't?"

There's a reason my of my trousers and jeans are mens and it's not just the pockets. The fact they don't assume inseam based on waist measurement. I once worked with a tall gal and it pretty much worked out the amount too much leg my jeans would come with would allow hers not to be high watered. "Work it out!" It's a logistics problem.

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If fashion designers really cared, they would use statistical analysis to map human proportions in their target audience and then design accordingly.

So far the only place I've seen doing that is a t-shirt company that maps size popularity in different countries so their customers know which ones to buy en masse. I told a t-shirt vendor about that this weekend. He'd never heard of it and was most pleased.

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That would require them to be technicians not artists, and if an architect their roofs would suddenly not leak. Though, some designers and some fashion critics are making a point to expect more/deliver more than Building the Clothes and tailoring the customer to that.

Steve Rogers' Smedium probably would make a very reasonable tracks of land tee without much female presenting nipples bleed through. (Using an undersized shirt is a standard costumers trick to highlight the male form. But with the Dorito shoulder waist ratio, even a smaller tee requires babydolling.) There are photos of CE at Comic Cons and it's clear those grey tees weren't babydolled. He could burrito a chicken to safety on each side.

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It doesn't require fashion designers to be technicians. It requires someone to hire experts to map the dimensions and frequency of same across a reasonable portion of a target audience. People do such research for all kinds of reasons, including product development. Certainly engineers do it when designing things like cars or ergonomic chairs. Regrettably the target audience is almost always men, so they don't fit women well, but anyone could do the same for women. If they cared to.

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Ah, but then we'd be being reasonable and the only reason men's clothes make sense is because WWII made it mandatory.

I figure there is enough waste in the current system that straightening out the logistics would let us pay all the machine operators a non-sweated wage, clothe people more chicly and reduce harm to the environment. (I've not run the numbers. It's just there's that much waste from what I'm understanding.)

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>> Ah, but then we'd be being reasonable and the only reason men's clothes make sense is because WWII made it mandatory. <<

Likely so. I wish clothes had to be sold by actual measurements like cloth or liquids.

>> I figure there is enough waste in the current system that straightening out the logistics would let us pay all the machine operators a non-sweated wage, clothe people more chicly and reduce harm to the environment. <<

I suspect you are right. >_

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Square area coverage? Thermal insulation? Style quotient?

I'm trying to recall the specific books I read regarding the reconstitution of the men's ready to wear segment. Originally, it was the domain of men so wretched as to have no women folk nor the ability to hire a seamstress.

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That might work. I have a couple of "loungers" (vaguely nightshirt-like, each with one large patch pocket) that I wear around the house a lot. Most "housecoats" look like something my great-aunt would have worn when she was the age I am now.

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There's a certain amount of selection error in play. The housecoats that most got seen on film were the ones that couldn't be backlit into impropriety and those tended towards very 'mature' women.

I suspect your loungers are what I'd call a shift, a sleeveless slipover that might brush the knees.

Last night I was watching an educational film and it had a housedress, which is a step up from a shift, in that it had treatments like ruffles and was built with apron concerns in mind. A small overall print for that 'small stains won't be noticeable, can more beets.'

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I'm a fat old woman, but I refuse to dress like an old woman. If I can find the right kind of leggings with pockets, I'll go back to my preferred outfit of leggings, tunic-length shirt of some sort - third-millennium "tunic and trews", with as many pockets as I can manage, and all in ultraviolet purple. No small prints or ruffles on me.

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Well, there's no reason a shift can't be made in any fabric you can source and like. Those small prints came from a time when women might only get a new dress once a year and it needed to not look 'old' or at least not 'poorly maintained' for 20. We don't generally boil laundry but that was a real thing even early in the 20th century. I was just looking at some removed buttons, and their plastic shanks got exposed, perhaps via iron, to heat detrimental.

Given your description of preferred uniform, any shirt with shoulders that 'stay put' (since I have some that's not given) and has enough tail to be tunic length could get pockets whether they are patch pockets or a welted on. (Those are fussier to add, but it's a little like making a dice bag and sewing it to the wrong side of the shirt.)

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When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me,
And I shall spend my pension
on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals,
and say we've no money for butter.

https://barbados.org/poetry/wheniam.htm

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Of course, that's one of my favorite poems, except that I don't own a red hat (I hardly ever wear hats, although I bought a silly-looking sun hat when I committed myself to going to an outdoor event two weeks ago. I also slathered myself with sunblock - I burn painfully red in five minutes or less when there's an average amount of sunshine.) And I make sure I have enough money for butter and satin sandals. And I didn't wait until I was an old woman to start dressing in purple :-)

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>> third-millennium "tunic and trews"<<

That is exactly what my bestie wears all the time, though in silver-blue. She's a little sparrow of a woman. She has no trouble finding leggings, but tunics that don't look like she's playing dress up are another problem. So I make them for her, with double-reinforced side-seam pockets.

I haven't found a source of leggings that fit me, so I can't help there.

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I think of a housecoat more like a women's bathrobe. 0_o Usage may vary by region or other factors.

However, I suspect that lab coats would be a very effective way for women to obtain pockets.

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They would indeed. Lab coats are really warm, though - ugh!

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I have seen many different styles, colors, and materials of lab coat. Many labs are kept cold due to equipment such as computers. But some require a hot humid environment -- say, if you're working with jungle plants or animals. The lab coats have to cope with a wide range of conditions but still be tough, tolerable to wear, and cheap enough that nobody hesitates to throw them away when contaminated. That doesn't means the less common ones are easy to find, but they're out there. I've even seen tie-dye ones.

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Sounds like some much-needed changes since I was buying lab coats. (Back in years beginning 197..., before I got chased out of Chemistry by an anti-Semitic misogynist.)

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Okay, let's see ...

A basic review of popular lab coats in basic white:
https://vbestseller.com/lab-coats-for-women-reviews/

Tie-dye lab coat and scrubs:
https://www.tyedye-everything.com/Store/DrawProducts.aspx?CategoryID=1&ParentID=&PageID=24

http://www.tie-dyes.com/Bazaar/Tie-dye-Bazaar-Doctor-Lab-Coat.html

Bright and stylish colors -- some of these don't even look like lab coats and would easily work for everyday wear:
https://www.justlabcoats.com/colored-lab-coats.aspx

Various features include disposable, lightweight, breatheable, 100% cotton, and more:
https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/products/I9C8KPVW/general-purpose-lab-coats.html

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I had an appointment with my neurologist a couple of weeks ago, and it had been three months since my last appointment. He always teases me about being an old hippie, so I tie-dyed myself a t-shirt, in a simple purple-on-white spiral, to wear to the appointment. I've tie-dyed a lot of things, and scrubs wouldn't be impossible, assuming I could find 100% cotton scrubs (the dye doesn't take too well on synthetic fibers). I threatened to make him a tie-dyed shirt, but maybe he would object less to a scrub shirt ;-)

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The last place on the list advertised 100% cotton, though I'd expect it to cost more than synthetics. They have to offer some natural fibers, because some things -- certain chemicals and fire -- you don't want to mix with synthetic fabric.

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I once had an opportunity to take a very basic class in blacksmithing, and we were told that all clothing we wore to the class had to be natural fibers like wool and cotton, because they wouldn't flame up. I think I saw some 100% cotton sweatshirts at the Army/Navy store (my husband was shopping for work boots). I could certainly tie-dye a sweatshirt ;-)

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>>I once had an opportunity to take a very basic class in blacksmithing, and we were told that all clothing we wore to the class had to be natural fibers like wool and cotton, because they wouldn't flame up.<<

Yep. Same with any activity involving fire, natural fibers are recommended. Our coven robes are unbleached muslin.

>> I think I saw some 100% cotton sweatshirts at the Army/Navy store (my husband was shopping for work boots).<<

That's a good place to look. Farm stores and wilderness stores may have them too. An advantage of cotton is that it wears well over time, whereas synthetics or blends break down.

>> I could certainly tie-dye a sweatshirt ;-) <<

They're easy, you just have to remember that it takes a LOT more dye than a T-shirt because the fabric is 2-5 times thicker. On the other hoof, you can 'paint' dye onto a sweatshirt and it'll work better than it does on thinner cloth. The lines will still spread, but they won't run to hell and gone.

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Last winter I needed a pair of boots suitable for a few inches of snow - I hadn't had any in years. My husband was also shopping for boots, and I asked the store people if they had any in women's sizes. They didn't, but they had a chart of men's sizes compared to women's. I tried on a pair of boots in the size that seemed equivalent to my women's size, and they fit perfectly, and the next time it snowed I didn't have to worry about my feet getting wet.

I know what men's sizes fit me, at least in sweatshirts and jackets and t-shirts. (I can't wear men's pants because if they fit in the hips, they're six sizes too big in the waist.) So here are a few more projects for me ;-)

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Remember to do a little glow in the dark embellishment on the lab coat pockets. Enforcing personal space.

I may have Southernisms included, they came with the davenport and the warsh.

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I have seen some pockets outlined in contrasting trim for emphasis. :D

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Welted pockets often were because you need a tight bias for the welt anyway (iirc; I know of more construction than I ever did.) so why not make a little splash once your skills are on point. I seem to recall welts being used to underscore breasts, in a "Don't look at my darts until you know me better, but damn I look good." way.

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I was seeing it on patch pockets.

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That's a good place too. Of course with patch pockets you have the opportunity to get with your appliqué and give a dress a ladybug, or maybe a nice steggy or triceratops.

A blue hippo on a papyrus necked shift?

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What my grandmother called a house dress I see listed in modern catalogs as a "lounger".

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Looking at those designs reminds me of nothing so much as 19th c. children's pinafores. Not that those had pockets (the pockets were separate and tied around the waist under them), but the shape is very similar. The nice thing about aprons is that they go from outfit to outfit, just as little girls' pinafores did.

I wonder...any bright ideas on selling something like this? Langenlook's designs are nice, but they're so all-enveloping it looks like another dress or skirt. Because my mind is happily designing variants that would be better suited to everyday wear for people who aren't inclined to the bohemian look.

Hmm. I've got a lot of cotton and linen in my stash.....

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It strikes me that the scarf is the 'normal' addition these days, so the most apt styling for the upper bodice. Maybe done with some sewn in draping? A back fastening belt to pull the weight distribution to the hips and spine. No further down than the knees, it'd be like urban chaps.

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>> Looking at those designs reminds me of nothing so much as 19th c. children's pinafores. <<

I thought so too. They also remind me of much older styles, where the servant women and sometimes the chatelaine would wear a sort of partial dress over their full dress, not just for spill protection but to have somewhere to put things. You could tuck stuff through the tie belt or loops or pockets. It was an alternative to a chatelaine's belt.

>> I wonder...any bright ideas on selling something like this? <<

If I were going to do it, I would consider such things as:

* Offer a loose version and a more fitted version.

* Provide a range of colors including neutral and brighter ones.

* Make some with heavy fabric like denim for robust work, and some in lighter fabric like calico for casual work.

* Try to cover a wide price range. Scavenged cloth is often cheap or free, reducing the cost to time+skill. You can do a lot with recut jeans from a thrift shop or garage sale. Conversely, if you're buying heavyweight quilt calico, that'll cost more.

* Hang a sign that says something like:
Are you tired of women's clothes that don't have pockets, or only have tiny pockets that won't fit your stuff? Now you can buy extra pockets for ..."
And then post pictures of things like phones, hands, and other items fitting into the pockets you've made.

And of course, you should post on my blog, where folks are looking for pockets. :D

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