ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith
Any of you vision-impaired folks like to cook?  A friend tipped me to this spice merchant, and I noticed they advertise Braille labels are available upon request.  The blends sound quite promising.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-19 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] chanter_greenie
Oooooh cheers! I'm going to have to check that out! :)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-19 02:57 pm (UTC)
stardreamer: Meez headshot (Default)
From: [personal profile] stardreamer
Side note: this company is a decent entry into the "shoulda used a hyphen" URL category. It took 3 tries for the name to parse correctly for me on the mouse-over.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-19 05:43 pm (UTC)
kengr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kengr
Forwarded to Lin. I expect she and Kermit will appreciate yet another source of spices, and the braille labels will be a *definite* plus.

I've bookmarked the site for myself. I at least need to explore some. :-)

Re: Thank you!

Date: 2017-06-19 07:10 pm (UTC)
kengr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kengr
>>Yay! Simples are usually easy to identify by order and confirm by scent, but blends are harder to check that way, and spice mistakes are nasty.<<

Not *quite* a "spice" mistake...

Many years back I worked in the kitchen at a nursing home. Many, many stories there...

But this one concerned a mistake of that sort.

We'd finished handing out (and sending out) lunch. And had sat down in our break room to eat *our* lunches.One of the items that day was clam chowder. We'd run out of the regular, and had to serve ourselves the salt free.

I tasted mine, yep definitely needed salt. So I dump a packet of salt in and stir. Taste it. No change. So I dump in another packet. Still nada. I dump in a third and realize that it's starting to taste *sweet*. WTF?

I look at the packets and then realize that we'd changed vendors. And the new vendor color coded the packets differently. The color that had been salt with the old vendor was now sugar substitute...

I carefully *read* the packets, grabbed one that was *actually* salt, and dumped it in. and started eating the now edible chowder.

I have to wonder how many of the residents made the same sort of mistake due to that change.

Re: Thank you!

Date: 2017-06-19 08:13 pm (UTC)
kengr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kengr
Yeah, it sucketh mightily.

at least my pharmacy prints a notice *on the bottle* when the meds change appearance.

Which reminds me, the other day you posted something that was using grapefruit as an antiseptic or something along those lines.

Grapefruit is weird in that it's very much contraindicated for a *wide* variety of drugs. Not sure if that'd affect surface applications, but it's something to keep in mind.

Re: Thank you!

Date: 2017-06-19 08:28 pm (UTC)
kengr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kengr
I hear you about things not being that straightforward. My friend Lin taught me a *lot* about being diabetic. But she has to be careful of potatoes in any form.

Me? I'm fine with baked potatoes or even french fries. But I have to be careful with potato chips they can really spike things. But cheetos which aren't *that* different except for corn derived starches rather than potato don't spike me *nearly* that much.

Sometimes I wish our bodies came with an owners manual. :-)

Re: Thank you!

Date: 2017-06-19 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mashfanficchick

Sometimes it helps me a lot to remember that there are other people whose bodies react weirdly, but within defined parameters, and that I'm not the only one who has trouble of the "please don't do x, y will happen...duh, y happened; you did x!" variety.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-19 06:35 pm (UTC)
we_are_spc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] we_are_spc
Holy shit yes! ...


I mean, ahem, Thank you. LOL

-Fallon and Jay~

(Damn we done need this after visit with the mother. Weren't too bad 'cause short, but still stressful as shit.)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-19 10:11 pm (UTC)
thnidu: glowing light bulb. tinyurl.com/33j2v8h (light bulb)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
Fascinating idea. Plenty of times I've seen/heard people remark on the emotional difference between some significant saying or poem or book in one language -- maybe the original, maybe their own -- and in some other language. So this thought isn't entirely without precedent.

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-19 11:04 pm (UTC)
thnidu: my familiar. "Beanie Baby" -type dragon, red with white wings (Default)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
I do that too, but I have always thought of it just as an outgrowth of my love of languages. I'll introspect some on this next time it happens.

( French. Spanish. Esperanto. Latin. Binary (on the hand). Klingon. Russian. Sometimes others depending on how well I remember the numbers in them at that moment.)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-19 11:33 pm (UTC)
beasts_of_homeworld: Deep in an ancient forest where green moss covers all, little glowing balls of coloured light float about in the mist. (Any - Forest)
From: [personal profile] beasts_of_homeworld
>> The main effect seems to come from the physical act of switching languages. It's like they're stored on different hard drives. <<

yes, this. we can offer a demonstrative experience of this:

what we consider our first language is a nonverbal language we share with one another. with regard to this shared brain, as some other autistic folk are we are naturally largely nonverbal, and our level of capacity to verbalise varies day to day and minute to minute and mood to mood.

the first verbal language that our shared brain learned in its infancy is immensely challenging, draining and stressful to try to speak when we are a higher degree of nonverbal than usual (which happens often). but any language we obtained after our shared brain was past the stage in development where a human brain is picking up 'first' or native languages, is much easier when we are high levels of nonverbal.

so at times like that we may not be capable of speaking english at all, but still manage "dè?" or "biadh" or "tapadh leat." (translation: "what?" "food." "thankyou.")

or we might struggle to produce "yes" and "no" but be perfectly able to say "oidhche mhath a h'Ysabet, ciamar a tha sibh an-diugh? tha sinn sgìth is an t-acras oirbh, ach gu math cuideachd." (translation: "good evening Ysabet, how are you today? we're tired and hungry, but doing well too.")

we are guessing from this that a language that is not a 'first' language for this brain does not register the same way in the verbal centre of our brain, or at least not as strongly, and thus is still accessible when we are nonverbal. they also feel very different to us in terms of brainspace and brain activity, and feel much easier and more comfortable to speak. the different ones also feel different, of course - Gàidhlig, which we used in this comment, is the most accessible language for us when we're nonverbal, and also the most comfortable and natural-feeling. it seems cosy and almost thought-free to use, even though we're not actually fluent yet.

we also can confirm that switching language can assist with and interact in useful and interesting ways with PTSD, at least for us, but we don't have the spoons just now to give examples or details. <3
Edited (dyslexia affects ~all~ the languages! *grin*) Date: 2017-06-19 11:43 pm (UTC)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-20 11:17 am (UTC)
beasts_of_homeworld: Deep in an ancient forest where green moss covers all, little glowing balls of coloured light float about in the mist. (Any - Forest)
From: [personal profile] beasts_of_homeworld
>> Also some verbal people seem to think naturally in images or other nonverbal concepts, and then reframe that in words. They're better at it, but there's still a translation cost. <<

yes, we think in images, feelings, concepts, and bodylanguage. the translation cost for us is pretty sizeable, but our shared brain has been basically obsessed with translating things into english since the body was tiny because such bad things happened if we didn't, so it's also often impossible for us to not translate. like the moment we think something the shared brain starts working on a translation even if we're not intending to try and communicate that thing to anyone. even if we're alone at home ignoring the universe. it's exhausting, and is part of the reason we have such a low everyday spoon level.

most of the other autistic folk we've spoken to about it tend to say that thinking in things other than words is what happens for them when they go nonverbal, but when they're fully verbal they think in words. we're not sure if that might be misrepresentative due to a small or unbalanced sample. we consider ourselves to either just never be fully verbal or be naturally nonverbal on a root level, which are probably just different ways of saying the same thing. we identify both ways anyway.

we also have times when we just don't even understand english at all. we tend to put that on the far end of 'being nonverbal', where it's not just that we're not thinking in words and not able to speak words, but we're not able to understand other people speaking words either. we just... are no longer english-language for a while. it varies whether we also don't understand other languages when this happens, we're most likely to keep some recognition of Gàidhlig but occasionally we'll lose even that.

our brain has this complicated ancient monstrosity of a computer script in it that was built over the course of our childhood and teen years in response to abuse. it pattern-matches collections of sounds without parsing them as language, tests them against data of 'good' and 'bad' responses from other people in past situations, and provides the most 'socially expected' and least assertive replies for the smoothest interaction/most compliance with what our abusers wanted. so we can hold an entire conversation without ever understanding a word anyone says, ourselves included.

so... yeah. it's handy if we're nonverbal and not understanding english right now and need to survive a conversation we can't escape. but it's counterproductive if we want to actually communicate truthfully. or be able to defend ourselves from attack or keep our boundaries. we're still working on disabling the auto-overrides it has buried in all kinds of places throughout our brain. because those were necessary for survival when we were growing up due to an unsafe environment, but these days they mean we can't tell a doctor that something hurts, for example. since the 'least waves'/'least assertion' response is "i'm fine."

which is why we haven't started trying to dismantle the automatic translation of thoughts thing yet, because we're focussing on the overrides for that responses-in-conversation thing first. since back when we started working on it about six years ago, that socially expected responses script was overriding ALL our conversations and preventing us from being able to communicate genuinely even with loved ones. and it was to the point that the script would classify "we end up in the emergency room" below "we surprise or inconvenience someone" as far as problems to be avoided. yay abuse, lol. *sarcastic face* ...so yeah. would liek ability to have boundaries and express needs, first pls. x3 (amused face)

wow we talk so much when something makes us think and our brain starts translating all the things. *grin*

>> Wow! I hadn't heard this from other autistic folks before, <<

we might be unusual in this regard, and/or it might be that most other people who experience this sort of thing are like us and take 30+ years to process that fact enough to be able to consciously grasp it, put it into words, and begin exploring it.

and/or it may be another of these things that the autistic community hasn't really started talking about yet, as an effect of the gradual nature of development of conversation in oppressed communities due to not having access to appropriate language and concepts and having to build our own from the ground up. as we imagine you'll know, the sorts of conversations a community like that has start out extremely basic and devoid of nuance and focussing on bare essentials only out of necessity and lack of tools. then gradually grow enough breathing room, thinking room, and verbal toolboxes to spread out into more detailed, nuanced, radically empowering, and variations-of-experience sorts of areas as the years pass.

>> but when you mentioned it, I remembered that different species mature at different rates and may learn skills in different orders. Everyone has 'windows' of opportunity learn things, and learning a thing outside its window is difficult or impossible. <<

yes, exactly! you're right, this is what we were referring to. it's definitely way, way more difficult for us to learn a new language with this brain now, or even teach this brain a language that the person using it is already fluent in. and it has been since late childhood, body-wise.

but we believe that's what makes our more recent languages more accessible - they're not being learned in the same way, processed in the same way, or stored in the same way. they're not registering as 'word-speak-language' the same way as the ones we learned when this brain was at its native-language-learning stage. it kind of feels like we're learning to make new noises rather than learning to say new words. we think that's what makes them available to us when we're nonverbal - our brain isn't really processing them as verbal.

it's interesting, because there's a level of clarity and... something we don't know a word for... involved in the languages our brain learned in its infancy. we've never attained that with other languages since and don't feel it being possible ('feel' here in the sense of, reaching into reality with our reality-sensing appendages which just happen to be feelers and returning with an impression of an answer, rather than in the sense of reacting to past experiences with emotional conclusions or etc). yet the languages we lack that clarity and whatever in are easier for us to use and navigate because of the lack of transparency. again, they don't feel like words, so they're more comfortable and accessible.

>> But humans are downright vicious about learning things on a fairly tight timeframe -- anyone who moves slower is considered defective even if they learn the material well and the same is true for people who learn things in a different order. <<

yeah, this. this has affected our life in so many different ways for different things in different areas. but on this topic, we think it's very likely to be part of why our body's native verbal languages are so challenging for us. and it's definitely partly responsible for the 'expected responses' script and the way it overrides us and our own conscious communications, and other such things we were talking about. and some we weren't.

shared brain's obsession with forcing us to translate and verbalise comes from mistreatment if we didn't verbalise or if we took the correct amount of time for our brain to process incoming language, translate it, figure out how we actually feel about it, translate that, and reply. and a lot of the reason for that mistreatment is the thing you describe - that vicious ableism and conformist prescriptivism against anyone learning and functioning in a curve, order, timeframe or pattern different to the prescribed model. it's not even necessarily the most common model, just the most preferred one by those in power.

we learned to speak as a defence mechanism, a maladaptive survival trait. we learned it way faster than our appropriate natural rate and way faster than we were really capable of learning it properly, due to necessity and an unsafe situation. it's not really surprising we don't like it much. not surprising we don't do great with it and have harmful and selves-defeating patterns and ingrained behaviours surrounding it. humans in western earth society really are ridiculous asshats, haha.

**** **** ****

alert: the following contains discussion of ableism, mental health, abuse, violence, and hypothetical murder. feel free to skip to the next-but-one set of four asterisks, or the words 'end content alert.'


>> It's savage and insane, but they'll attack any family that protests it. <<

it's not, really. savage yes, but not insane. it's ridiculous, dangerous, violent, extreme, vicious like you said, misguided or malicious, illogical, and abusive. and plenty of other words that actually mean something harmful or nonsensical instead of describing living people. but it's not insane, because it's not different to the generally accepted ('sane') norms of society. in fact it's perfectly and totally in line with them. it is accepted normal 'sane' behaviour and an expected participation in this culture's consensus reality.

it's also not insane because it isn't insanity that makes someone ridiculous, dangerous, violent, extreme, vicious, misguided, malicious, illogical or abusive. maybe insanity can influence some people in some of those directions, but so can many other things. the important part is that they are still thinking beings making decisions. putting the responsibility for a harmful action on a mental health condition or mental variance instead of on the person who did that action assumes that person helpless, incompetent and incapable, strips them of their humanity (or sapience of whatever flavour) and personhood, and additionally opens up the door for all the excuser bullshit arguments that result in abusers getting away with abuse so long as they have a mental or emotional problem/variance. it's why we have to remind a loved one that just because her partner has [censored condition for privacy] doesn't mean he gets to [abusive actions towards our loved one]. and why we have to keep reminding her that the fact he has that condition doesn't mean she has to stay with him and endure it when he mistreats her.

it's also not insane because it's very important in a society that mistreats mentally ill and mentally variant people not to obfuscate the fact that sane people are just as capable of being violent malicious abusive dangerous assholes, or ridiculous misguided illogical dangerous jerks. sane people can be just as extreme and just as vicious. or more. we can't give a reference right now but we recall seeing statistics that showed it being more likely for a crazy person to be violently attacked by a sane person than vice versa. we can't attest to whether or not those were accurate and our memory is accurate, but we wouldn't be surprised.

we're insane. you just described how awful an action is by comparing it to us. that's pretty insulting.

the myth that insane is a synonym for dangerous is what makes people think it's okay to lock us up and tie us down for the rest of our lives. or for our carer to beat us to death.


end content alert.

**** **** ****

>> However, it remains true that some people need to learn on their own timeframe, so if a given skill is not working, it may simply not have grown in yet. People should consider backing off, trying something else for a while, and then re-offering that lesson later. <<

yes, absolutely. or as would've helped in our case, backing off and allowing it to be learned slower.

we were at the stage where our brain was absorbing a verbal language as close as it can get to natively with something verbal. we just have a much slower processing speed than expected in a lot of situations, and were dealing with the fact that we're just naturally not suited for learning and using a verbal language in the first place.

we were at the right point for learning a language. but not pressuring us to be verbal and fluent in english immediately and constantly, and just not abusing us over it, would've helped a lot.

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-20 07:00 pm (UTC)
beasts_of_homeworld: Deep in an ancient forest where green moss covers all, little glowing balls of coloured light float about in the mist. (Any - Forest)
From: [personal profile] beasts_of_homeworld
thankyou for this response.

our mileage does indeed vary, but we're not in the best capacity to try and put that into words just now. perhaps we'll manage to come back to this later, or perhaps not.

but we think the difference in perspective is because we are coming at this from the position of an oppressed minority struggling for survival and fighting for social change.

so for example, when it comes to 'therapists' and other such societally-endorsed people acting from a position of privilege, we're very strongly aware that the reason they have this disconnect between the results they claim and the results that happen, is because of their privilege.

society says crazy people should be abused in this way and that that is a good thing to do, and therefore doing it is good, and therefore the results of this 'therapy' are good. society says that forcing crazy people to blend in with the sane people and front 'acceptable' appearances on a surface level is the 'good' result, therefore if abusing us results in us fronting in a way that stops the abuse (and passes for 'acceptable' by sane/societal standards), the 'therapy' is successful and the results are good and worth repeating. society says crazy people aren't worth listening to because we're crazy, and therefore our voices saying that the therapy hurts do not count as data, and are to be dismissed and ignored.

privilege does indeed cause delusions, yes. like the above. but it's not what we would include in 'insane' or similar because it's societally-approved, is from a cause external to the individual, and is part of the system of oppression we're fighting rather than part of the oppressed group we're members of.

it comes from a mass societal/cultural delusion rather than a personal one. the privileged individuals buying into society's narrative in this way are not using faulty brain pathways, they're healthily functioning within and going along with the parameters society defines for them. that's how any individual animal is supposed to survive in a society. the problem is that the society's parameters are faulty and are attacking other members of that society. questioning, challenging, rocking the boat and bucking the system are also healthy and necessary actions in any society, but functioning within the parameters society defines is not divergence from reality. it's acceptance of the reality of what your society expects of you and the reality of the fact it considers these things 'truth'.
Edited (number disagreement due to somewhat lowered language capacity. also a clarification.) Date: 2017-06-20 07:09 pm (UTC)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-20 07:17 pm (UTC)
beasts_of_homeworld: Deep in an ancient forest where green moss covers all, little glowing balls of coloured light float about in the mist. (Any - Forest)
From: [personal profile] beasts_of_homeworld
...sorry, our brain is very slow at producing words today. we knew we wanted to say more on the topic of "thankyou for this response," we just couldn't find any more of the words for it.

what we want to say is, thankyou very much, we really appreciate you taking the time to respond to our concerns on this.

we also appreciate you prioritising that response over the less contentious points. it helps a lot with our social anxiety, as well as just being a good choice of priority order.

we're very glad we can have this discussion with you, it's extremely difficult and frightening for us to speak up about things like this, and we really appreciate that you're willing to engage calmly and equitably with us on the subject.

also hoping to clarify a thing: when we say the difference seems to be because we're coming from an oppression point of view, we mean that we're seeing the subject through that lens, and there are other lenses through which to look at the topic that give different results. it sounded on re-reading what we said like we could have been misconstrued as implying something about legitimacy of viewpoint, but we didn't intend that kind of message and are just verbally clumsy today.


...although thinking about it, it's true there's something to be said for the firsthand, lived-experience nature of an oppressed person's viewpoint on the subject of that oppression. and for the minimising-harm attitude of prioritising oppressed viewpoints and voices in situations where doing otherwise results in furthering their oppression or doing other widespread harm. we just try to avoid invalidating others' viewpoints. which isn't quite the same thing, but is easily mixed up with it, from our side or a reader's.

we feel as though we are not exactly making sense. we are not saying quite the things we want to be saying. not making the specific sense we're aiming for. we will go and do other things for a while.

also if this is unsuitably derail-y of the original discussion, by your preferences for your journal, we're happy to move the conversation elsewhere if you prefer. ^_^ (happy face)

we're enjoying having the chance to discuss this with you. <3
Edited (thoughts drip slowly through the filter of language like a thick treacle soaking through layers of denim~) Date: 2017-06-20 07:32 pm (UTC)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-20 11:18 am (UTC)
beasts_of_homeworld: Deep in an ancient forest where green moss covers all, little glowing balls of coloured light float about in the mist. (Any - Forest)
From: [personal profile] beasts_of_homeworld
>> I have seen nothing written about a language window opening later than expected, and being more fluent with a later language than an earlier one. <<

we rarely hear of this on earth either, if we do at all (our brain is tired and fuzzing things together so we can't tell whether X and Y memories-feelings are from earth or homeworld or somewhere else). but that's not what we're describing for ourselves. we can see how it would seem that way - in fact we had to sit with our brain and help it work through the idea to get back around to us being right about ourselves rather than this being new and more correct information.

what we're referring to is level of access to a language when nonverbal. this is not the same thing as fluency. most people experience fluency in a language, but do not experience being nonverbal, or only rarely in extreme situations such as emergency-level trauma and shock. so 1) it's understandable to conflate the two and 2) they're clearly two independent experiences/phenomena.

we're not fluent in Gàidhlig but have good access to it when nonverbal. we are fluent in english but have little to no access to it when nonverbal. we have greater fluency in english, which is the earlier-learnt language for our shared brain.

...may also be of interest: that's why we spell Gàidhlig with a capital but not english. it's about our fluency level - we're on less familiar terms with Gàidhlig and thus we use our 'respectful' grammar form, like "vous" vs "tu" in french. or "sibh" (pronounced "shiv") vs "thu" (pronounced "hoo" or "oo") in Gàidhlig. *grin*

like we think we mentioned earlier up this comment, our main language window was definitely during roughly the expected time for a human (perhaps a little later, definitely a lot slower). we just do better access-wise with languages learnt outside of our main language window.

we do pick up bits of languages like nobody's business though, haha. just not to a fluent level or in a native kind of way.

>> But I would bet your experience is not unique, and it could be a huge help to parents and children facing a similar challenge. You might think about writing up a detailed description of it, and anything that might have helped you handle it better, to pass around autistic and/or multiple circles. <<

you're right, and this is a really good idea. even if what we'd be talking about is different to what it sounds like you were thinking of. we'd still be talking about a nonstandard experience of learning times, language learning, language access, and language fluency.

we've added it to our list of things we want to write a shareable info/helpwork on. unfortunately the thing at the top of the list has been there for years because our spoons can rarely extend far enough to do that. we'd love to, we'd probably even be pretty good at it, we just don't really have the resources, brain-energy-wise.

>> If you do, let me know and I'll add it to my references. <<

thankyou very much. we appreciate that a lot, and we will definitely keep it in mind and drop you a note if we ever do manage to write such a thing, or other similar things you might like a reference for.

>> That makes sense. Usually people revert to their native language because it's easiest, but your first verbal language is hardest, so reverting to something easier hits a different track for you. <<

yes, exactly! ^_^ (happy face) that's what made us think of sharing here - the fact that the different track can make the difference between being able to use a language and not able, even when the not able to use language is our 'first' and most fluent. it struck us as a strong demonstration of the power of the track change/different-hard-drive effect for different languages you were discussing.

>> My brain self-switches in some ways too. If I'm trying for a foreign language, it shuts off English, so if I can't think of the word in Russian I might get it in Spanish. :D <<

yes! we do this too! XD (laughing, delighted) we've been known to make (long) statements comprised of french, swahili, German, Chigogo, Finnish, welsh, Japanese, Middle English and Danish. as in, all of them together. XD (laughing again) Eddie Izzard reminds us of this a little in the "Quod the fuck ist elephantine?" Latin language bit.

>> If I lose my voice, the verbal tracks drop down the priority queue and all the somatic languages float to the top, and I come out with a jumble of ASL, Plains Indian Sign, and fragments of every gesture I've seen my characters using. <<

that is awesome. :D (big smile)

with our shared brain we know some BSL, some ASL, a lot of feline bodylanguage, a fair bit of canine bodylanguage, a few other such things, and fragments of other sign languages, gestural languages and codes.

but we really wish we could shift verbal language down the priority queue like that. an abundance of child abuse has made it next to impossible for us to not speak english even if speaking it is immensely difficult, draining, stressful and painful. our brain just forces it as an essential requirement no matter what - if we can't verbalise on our own in time, the auto-responses script overrides us and spits out some echolalia of something or other that went down well in past situations. if we're highly nonverbal but not to the point where it's completely impossible for us to speak english, our brain will force us to try and speak all the english anyway. it's painful and generally awful and we hate it. we're learning how to calm that response down... just recently we were able to spend a couple of hours (or almost) communicating nonverbally and via text only with our sister who was sitting right next to us at the time. which is a huge achievement for us, even though she's the easiest nonbeastie to be nonverbal around and we were a total wreck at the time barely capable of conscious thought at all. but yeah, progress is being made. which is good! ^_^ (happy face)

>> Awesome. If I'm around someone who codeswitches like that, I'll pick it up, although it may take a few renditions. <<

O u O! (delighted face)

we do that too! most of our verbalising is echolalic actually, it's just extremely complex and long-range echolalia so it doesn't sound like it unless you're really really familiar with that sort of thing. but yeah the echolalia means we're way more likely to codeswitch along with someone usually, so long as what they're using is comfortable enough for us.

we do a lot of codeswitching with different grammar forms and vernaculars of english too, such as this is a 'general audience' english that we wouldn't normally use, and switch to for places where we're talking to people we're not super close to or a mixed audience in terms of closeness.

examp: are have also the, an fambly-ingls, liek such. an shiny. ist the beastie-words. the prefer for, rlx, an sleeeeeeps~~ (translation: we also have 'family' english, which sounds like this. it's awesome, we like it. it's closer to our natural way of expressing and is more genuine. we prefer it because it's easier, more comfortable and more relaxing, so it's especially good for when we're tired or otherwise low on brain-energy or function.) ...as may be deduced we use that one around close family (such as siblings and partners, and each other on occasions when we speak english to one another).

we have trouble codeswitching around most people though, again because our brain is very forceful about using 'acceptable' or 'appropriate' english (as measured by the standards of our childhood abusers and other people who were wrong). we somewhat agree, in that clear communication is preferable when available, but still.

in terms of different languages, like we mentioned we tend to pick up odds and ends all over the place and get a feel for a language extremely easily. like the time we spent a couple of weeks at a place called taize in france at around age 19 (one of several visits there), and spent a good deal of that time hanging out with a group of dutch friends we met there. by day two we were joining in their Dutch conversations speaking english in reply, haha. we understood the Dutch we heard, we just didn't have the vocabulary (and more importantly, the confidence) ourselves yet.

>> Yeah, it's kind of like each brain area does its own thing, but within a given area, it has subsections. Each language gets its own even though they are cross-connected. So one might work better than others. <<

yes, precisely. either that or what we're experiencing is us learning languages with something other than the verbal language centre of our brain, which would be surprising for a human brain but honestly would make a lot of sense for us. since it parses as expressive sound and really not as words a lot of the time. but yeah, it could just be a huge difference between languages in the 'native language' slot and languages outside of it.

>> My Spanish went right on growing even after I stopped studying it. Sometimes I understand things that I know we were never taught and I didn't hack. It's just there, self-seeding. 0_o <<

haha, yessss. that's awesome. *grin* we understand way more than we're ever taught or study, in languages. that's partly because we're empathic, partly because we just pick up on languages well, and partly because our learning style for languages is practical and immersive. we never learn languages well when they're being taught. but give us an ordinary conversation to listen to, we can probably get the general idea at least.

>> Yay! I'm so happy you found a comfortable language. <<

^_^~ thankyou <3 (happy face, heart)

>> They do feel different. *ponder* And that one's designed by and for people with fey influence, and if you read the descriptions of the Fair Folk, they act a LOT like neurovariant folk. <<

YES! exactly. on both of those, haha.

we have a lot of fae/faeries (as they generally call themselves in english) here among the beasts. which probably refers to a far wider group than you might be thinking of, because for us it's like saying "vertebrates." *grin* Afanc, Mothman, Am Fear Liath Mòr, lob, Tatty Bogle, Kitsune, nain, kelpies, An Mari Lwyd, Bean Tighe, Bean Sidhe, Ly Erg, Moddey Dhoo, glashtin, draot, bwciod, Kodama, Ghillie Dhu, selkies... all the things. there are a lot of fae-type beasties.

we agree the fey you mention do read as neurovariant to us, as do a lot of other fae/faeries.

there's also an interesting factor in that our shared body's genetics contain quite a lot of Gael. bodily we live dramatically healthier with markedly better energy levels on Gael land than we do on Saxon land due to what we experience as a more compatible connection with the energy of the land. it could possibly be true that our brain is better suited for Gael languages than it is for english in part due to heredity.

our english is running out. *grin*

>> Thank you so much! <<

^_^~~~~ (very happy face) you're welcome! <3

>> That's okay. You've been super useful already. <<

heeee, yay! we're so glad it's been useful! ^_^ <3

>> By the way, I recently wrote a poem about a nonverbal-native character, and it's getting posted later tonight. <<

O U O!! (excited and delighted face) BEST. <3 <3 <3 (hearts)

are go sleeps now, and, an busy day tmrrow. but. look forward to read such! thank for inform! (thank very for write!) ^_^ <3 (happy face, heart)
Edited (pronunciation can be varied *grin*) Date: 2017-06-20 11:23 am (UTC)

Re: Yay!

Date: 2017-06-20 03:58 pm (UTC)
we_are_spc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] we_are_spc
"Think in pictures and reframe them in words"

Some people wonder if we can see because we do a lot of this. I mean, sometimes to the point where we can pick up pictures from others and go...set that there,l it'll work. Or colors and the like which we've never seen, but sometimes just...know. (We used to be better at this but lack of practice...:( )I didn't realize this until I was starting to think about my characters (Older ones that you haven't ment, but I'll use her as an example) Morgan has sable hair and sapphire blu eyes. She's a bobcat shifter and Clarien )Native amarican looking man with two braids down his back). They're both bobcat shifters, and Clarien used to be a regular fronter here (Or at least semi-regular) becore the 'later period' as our brain calls my part in thismess wecall life-but I have no idea what sable looks like, and sapphire-I have some idea. I've heard sable is a type of brown, but I Dunno. (Oh, also Clarien's hair is black-and he played the part of system-shaman before leaving-he checks in from time to time, but we've yet to find one who stays around as much has he does and what someone would call an 'official coapacit. Probably because right now a lot ofpeople her feel like we don't need one since we have an external one-or 2 if they count you-so they feel like we'recovered.

The only problem is=-I sometimes feel like we need a physical person to keep us on track,and we don't have that-because wecollapse under stress lots of times )And talk like we won't, but actually do) and a lot of that we don't know because we're probably a lot more nonverbal in communication than we realixze-and when it becomes noticeable to us, it's aready too freaking late.

(SHit, rambled atin, sorry?)



Date: 2017-06-19 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mashfanficchick
Auntie Arwen's spices are fantastic! I first got introduced to them at my local sci-fi con, of all places, probably 15 years ago, and have used them ever since. I wasn't aware they had such an online presence; that's definitely something I'll have to keep in mind. Thanks!


ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)

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