>> Granted, in my experience, 'It's your decision' or 'I respect your decision' are usually fairly obvious code for 'I think you're wrong wrong wrong and being stubborn and stupid and flipping out over nothing, and here, I'm coercing you into doing things my way.' <<
That's lying. Lying consistently, though not universally, damages relationships and causes other problems. With health care, when caregivers lie and abuse patients, people learn not to trust them; and if it's widespread throughout the system, people reduce their interaction with that system as much as possible. This is in fact happening now, and only when those "isolated, individual" problems impact public health does anyone start to give a shit. 0_o Well by then it's too late. Fixing broken trust is like trying to repair porcelain. Unless you're a master of kintsugi, you can fucking well forget it.
The same words can be used well or poorly, honestly or dishonestly. To determine which is in play: * Listen to the tone and observe the body language. A mocking tone or closed body language suggest deceit or hostility. A gentle tone and open body language have more positive indications. * Pay attention to related conversation. Is anyone providing explanations for the pros and cons of each option, or their reasoning behind recommending one? Are people at least trying to listen to each other? * See what happens next. Is "no" respected? If a patient makes a decision the caregiver doesn't like, whose preference is enacted -- is the patient allowed to implement their decision, or does the caregiver just abuse the patient by doing whatever the fuck they want? * Observe the outcomes. Whatever the decision, how well or poorly did it turn out? How could it have gone better or worse? In an ongoing relationship, who tends to make good decisions and who doesn't? Or is one person better at a certain type of decision?
In this case, Ethan definitely means it when he says something is Turq's choice. Ethan will present options and try to prevent foreseeable harm by pointing out the drawbacks if Turq wants to do something that is problematic. But Ethan generally won't go farther than those soft interventions.
Ansel is more heroic and thus more attached to preventing avoidable harm. So it's more of a struggle for him to respect someone's agency and boundaries if they're trying to make bad decisions. His whole job as a cop is to be a social safety rail and keep people from hurting themselves or anyone else if things go really haywire. For Ansel, there's a real ethical dilemma in terms of where to draw the line between how far an individual has a right to make his own decisions, even bad ones, and when society has a right or an obligation to intervene. to me, what makes that tolerable is that 1) Ansel does listen to input instead of ignoring people, 2) if it goes wrong, he accepts the consequences instead of blowing it off, like what happened after his first encounter with Turq, and 3) Ansel is always seeking to improve his skills and performance. He's never going to say, "I'm a cop and that makes me right."
>> Again, personal damage entirely localized to me. ... Uh, sorry. Wow. I did not expect to be bearing a portion of a past situational mismatch today! <<
*hugs offered* I am sorry you've had that kind of experience. But it is not localized to you. I've had similar experiences and heard more from many people. Your concerns are valid and the problem is widespread. I cannot fix the whole problem. I can show people what it looks like when characters try to handle a challenging situation in a positive manner. Maybe that will inspire folks to think about these issues and how they would handle such situations themselves.
>>I won't go too deeply into Ansel bringing Turq's focus back onto him and how hard my demisensual self flinched.<<
This is one of those situations where a relatively new relationship has been gradually evolving into deeper levels of trust -- but the shit hit the fan before anyone was really ready for this big of a jump deeper. Turq isn't connected with anyone else right now. His choices were to struggle through on his own, seek help from his worse-than-useless gang, gamble on random strangers at a hospital who've probably never even seen a soup before, gamble on random strangers at SPOON who don't like supervillains if he could even get there, or go to Ansel who at least knows Turq somewhat and has first responder training. Turq picked Ansel. Once that happened, Ansel had the options of ignoring the problem, calling an ambulance, calling other backup, or handling it himself. He felt that handling it himself and calling Ethan was the best combination. Neither Ansel nor Turq is completely comfortable with this abrupt shift in intimacy. But it is probably the least damaging option available at the time.
In terms of keeping Turq's attention on Ansel, that's probably the least stressful place in the room to put it. Ethan is terrifying. The walls are terrifying. All the medical stuff is panic-inducing. Even the pillows and blankets are unfamiliar. The one thing in that room that has any positive associations at all for Turq is Ansel. Which is not ideal, and not enough to make Turq actually calm, but is enough to prevent the kind of panic that causes serious injury.
This is particularly true since Ansel has repeatedly seen Turq drift back and forth between getting lost in some truly shitty memories or perking up a little more when focused on the better situation now. The main reason Turq is freaking out is not because people are being rough with him now -- they aren't -- but because he's been abused before. So Turq's first, habitual response of turning inward to escape the stress actually made it worse. Pulling Turq out of that was better than letting him drown in it, and also safer for Ansel and Ethan, who could've gotten hurt if Turq panicked. It worked well enough as damage control.
If Ansel and Turq come out of this with their relationship a little bruised, well, they have options. What would make them feel better? Staying away for a little while? Or circling around each other cautiously until they rediscover what is comfortable? Those are things they can discuss or otherwise explore, and in fact, both of them have used all of those tactics before.
>> I don't want you to think I'm raining all over this poem, because I'm very much not! It's excellently and compellingly done; if it weren't, I wouldn't be reacting this strongly. <<
That's good to hear.
>> I will say, I give maaaaajor props to Ethan Wheeler in this one, knowledge+actions+explicitly stating the reasons behind same=here, have at least two gold stars.<<
\o/ Ethan is so, so much better of a person and a medic than he realizes. He has a low opinion of himself and treats himself like shit. Nobody likes to see a healer beating up on himself that way, which greatly limits his ability to connect with anyone else. Even the principled supervillains want to cuddle him and feed him and pamper him because they get so few healers who will deal with them; but Ethan isn't ready for that yet. And the superheroes want him on their side, why is he out in the streets, etc. Ansel is actually doing better than either side of the cape, because he offers without pushing, and he's crystal clear about his house rules and other conditions. Ethan is watching Ansel handle Turq and thinking that this bolthole sucks less than the others he has seen. So it's helping him too.
>> The minute he and Turq started talking first aid particulars, I got a smile on my face. I don't know if that was... hmm, yes it was. Turq was a patient, but also actively engaged in his care, and treated as such. Equal footing, and from his reaction when he realized the protocols the other two had been following matched his prior emergency knowledge, he knew it. That was lovely to see. <<
Yes. That was the high-water mark for the whole encounter. And it's replicable -- any time they can bump Turq's attention onto his own first aid training, it will boost his mood, and it's not even very hard to do because it's such a strong positive imprint.
One of the best things about T-American caregiving in general, and trauma-informed care in particular, is an awareness that illness/injury makes people feel helpless, so one of the most useful things to do is restoring their agency. Help them understand what is happening, what the options are, and then support them in deciding how to solve the problem. When people feel a sense of control, they are more likely to respond positively, less likely to balk or to refuse good advice, and less prone to develop PTSD later. This is especially valuable in cases like what happened to Turq where someone's own body/mind/superpower is part or all of the problem. He got stabbed, but that did less damage than the reflexive teleport did. Helping Turq feel in control, by giving him choices and showing respect for him, actually improves his control of self and superpowers.
I think that will play into Turq's appreciation of what happened, after he's had time to process it. Ethan is probably the best medic Turq has ever had aside from his foster father Dao handling the usual childhood injuries.
>> I am totally that girl who will follow whichever rule/protocol/order a whole lot more consciously and carefully if I know why the heck it's there. <<
Me too. I have minimal tolerance for arbitrary rules. I am far more respectful of practical or safety ones.
>> I will shut my trap, now. <<
Thanks for this post. I really enjoyed it. I like people paying close attention to what I write, and the implications of it. And if any of these are issues you'd like to see explored further, feel free to prompt for them. This pair of poems was tagged "major plot point" for a reason, it's not meant to be a flash in the pan.
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dancing_serpent
Thoughts
Date: 2016-05-11 03:58 am (UTC)That's lying. Lying consistently, though not universally, damages relationships and causes other problems. With health care, when caregivers lie and abuse patients, people learn not to trust them; and if it's widespread throughout the system, people reduce their interaction with that system as much as possible. This is in fact happening now, and only when those "isolated, individual" problems impact public health does anyone start to give a shit. 0_o Well by then it's too late. Fixing broken trust is like trying to repair porcelain. Unless you're a master of kintsugi, you can fucking well forget it.
The same words can be used well or poorly, honestly or dishonestly. To determine which is in play:
* Listen to the tone and observe the body language. A mocking tone or closed body language suggest deceit or hostility. A gentle tone and open body language have more positive indications.
* Pay attention to related conversation. Is anyone providing explanations for the pros and cons of each option, or their reasoning behind recommending one? Are people at least trying to listen to each other?
* See what happens next. Is "no" respected? If a patient makes a decision the caregiver doesn't like, whose preference is enacted -- is the patient allowed to implement their decision, or does the caregiver just abuse the patient by doing whatever the fuck they want?
* Observe the outcomes. Whatever the decision, how well or poorly did it turn out? How could it have gone better or worse? In an ongoing relationship, who tends to make good decisions and who doesn't? Or is one person better at a certain type of decision?
In this case, Ethan definitely means it when he says something is Turq's choice. Ethan will present options and try to prevent foreseeable harm by pointing out the drawbacks if Turq wants to do something that is problematic. But Ethan generally won't go farther than those soft interventions.
Ansel is more heroic and thus more attached to preventing avoidable harm. So it's more of a struggle for him to respect someone's agency and boundaries if they're trying to make bad decisions. His whole job as a cop is to be a social safety rail and keep people from hurting themselves or anyone else if things go really haywire. For Ansel, there's a real ethical dilemma in terms of where to draw the line between how far an individual has a right to make his own decisions, even bad ones, and when society has a right or an obligation to intervene. to me, what makes that tolerable is that 1) Ansel does listen to input instead of ignoring people, 2) if it goes wrong, he accepts the consequences instead of blowing it off, like what happened after his first encounter with Turq, and 3) Ansel is always seeking to improve his skills and performance. He's never going to say, "I'm a cop and that makes me right."
>> Again, personal damage entirely localized to me. ... Uh, sorry. Wow. I did not expect to be bearing a portion of a past situational mismatch today! <<
*hugs offered* I am sorry you've had that kind of experience. But it is not localized to you. I've had similar experiences and heard more from many people. Your concerns are valid and the problem is widespread. I cannot fix the whole problem. I can show people what it looks like when characters try to handle a challenging situation in a positive manner. Maybe that will inspire folks to think about these issues and how they would handle such situations themselves.
>>I won't go too deeply into Ansel bringing Turq's focus back onto him and how hard my demisensual self flinched.<<
This is one of those situations where a relatively new relationship has been gradually evolving into deeper levels of trust -- but the shit hit the fan before anyone was really ready for this big of a jump deeper. Turq isn't connected with anyone else right now. His choices were to struggle through on his own, seek help from his worse-than-useless gang, gamble on random strangers at a hospital who've probably never even seen a soup before, gamble on random strangers at SPOON who don't like supervillains if he could even get there, or go to Ansel who at least knows Turq somewhat and has first responder training. Turq picked Ansel. Once that happened, Ansel had the options of ignoring the problem, calling an ambulance, calling other backup, or handling it himself. He felt that handling it himself and calling Ethan was the best combination. Neither Ansel nor Turq is completely comfortable with this abrupt shift in intimacy. But it is probably the least damaging option available at the time.
In terms of keeping Turq's attention on Ansel, that's probably the least stressful place in the room to put it. Ethan is terrifying. The walls are terrifying. All the medical stuff is panic-inducing. Even the pillows and blankets are unfamiliar. The one thing in that room that has any positive associations at all for Turq is Ansel. Which is not ideal, and not enough to make Turq actually calm, but is enough to prevent the kind of panic that causes serious injury.
This is particularly true since Ansel has repeatedly seen Turq drift back and forth between getting lost in some truly shitty memories or perking up a little more when focused on the better situation now. The main reason Turq is freaking out is not because people are being rough with him now -- they aren't -- but because he's been abused before. So Turq's first, habitual response of turning inward to escape the stress actually made it worse. Pulling Turq out of that was better than letting him drown in it, and also safer for Ansel and Ethan, who could've gotten hurt if Turq panicked. It worked well enough as damage control.
If Ansel and Turq come out of this with their relationship a little bruised, well, they have options. What would make them feel better? Staying away for a little while? Or circling around each other cautiously until they rediscover what is comfortable? Those are things they can discuss or otherwise explore, and in fact, both of them have used all of those tactics before.
>> I don't want you to think I'm raining all over this poem, because I'm very much not! It's excellently and compellingly done; if it weren't, I wouldn't be reacting this strongly. <<
That's good to hear.
>> I will say, I give maaaaajor props to Ethan Wheeler in this one, knowledge+actions+explicitly stating the reasons behind same=here, have at least two gold stars.<<
\o/ Ethan is so, so much better of a person and a medic than he realizes. He has a low opinion of himself and treats himself like shit. Nobody likes to see a healer beating up on himself that way, which greatly limits his ability to connect with anyone else. Even the principled supervillains want to cuddle him and feed him and pamper him because they get so few healers who will deal with them; but Ethan isn't ready for that yet. And the superheroes want him on their side, why is he out in the streets, etc. Ansel is actually doing better than either side of the cape, because he offers without pushing, and he's crystal clear about his house rules and other conditions. Ethan is watching Ansel handle Turq and thinking that this bolthole sucks less than the others he has seen. So it's helping him too.
>> The minute he and Turq started talking first aid particulars, I got a smile on my face. I don't know if that was... hmm, yes it was. Turq was a patient, but also actively engaged in his care, and treated as such. Equal footing, and from his reaction when he realized the protocols the other two had been following matched his prior emergency knowledge, he knew it. That was lovely to see. <<
Yes. That was the high-water mark for the whole encounter. And it's replicable -- any time they can bump Turq's attention onto his own first aid training, it will boost his mood, and it's not even very hard to do because it's such a strong positive imprint.
One of the best things about T-American caregiving in general, and trauma-informed care in particular, is an awareness that illness/injury makes people feel helpless, so one of the most useful things to do is restoring their agency. Help them understand what is happening, what the options are, and then support them in deciding how to solve the problem. When people feel a sense of control, they are more likely to respond positively, less likely to balk or to refuse good advice, and less prone to develop PTSD later. This is especially valuable in cases like what happened to Turq where someone's own body/mind/superpower is part or all of the problem. He got stabbed, but that did less damage than the reflexive teleport did. Helping Turq feel in control, by giving him choices and showing respect for him, actually improves his control of self and superpowers.
I think that will play into Turq's appreciation of what happened, after he's had time to process it. Ethan is probably the best medic Turq has ever had aside from his foster father Dao handling the usual childhood injuries.
>> I am totally that girl who will follow whichever rule/protocol/order a whole lot more consciously and carefully if I know why the heck it's there. <<
Me too. I have minimal tolerance for arbitrary rules. I am far more respectful of practical or safety ones.
>> I will shut my trap, now. <<
Thanks for this post. I really enjoyed it. I like people paying close attention to what I write, and the implications of it. And if any of these are issues you'd like to see explored further, feel free to prompt for them. This pair of poems was tagged "major plot point" for a reason, it's not meant to be a flash in the pan.