Story: "Coming Around" (Part 9 of 14)
Apr. 17th, 2013 02:41 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis story is a sequel to "Love Is for Children," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," and "Touching Moments," and "Splash."
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Bruce Banner, Hulk.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Inferences of past child/domestic abuse. Current environment is safe.
Summary: Phil shows Bruce the cute pictures of the team helping Hulk clean up after the bilgesnipe fight. Bruce finds the whole idea more confusing than pleasing.
Notes: Teamwork. Friendship. Flangst. Hurt/comfort. Dysfunctional relationship dynamics. Trust issues. Safety and security. ALL THE FEELS. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Personal growth. Family of choice.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8. Skip to Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14.
"Coming Around" Part 9
"Ah, that's nothing," Bruce said. "You don't work in a lab without picking up a few souvenirs." Clearly he took pride in his identity as a scientist; he pointed out some of the more notable examples across the backs of his hands. "Exploding beaker. Liquid oxygen. Bunsen burner. Hydrochloric acid."
"What about these?" Phil asked, feathering a touch along the straight scars on Bruce's palm, and the thicker pucker on his forearm.
Bruce shrugged. "I don't remember," he said. "I've got enough that I can spare a few from the detailed log. I just wish the Other Guy would quit making more scars on the inside of me and the outside of everyone else."
"He doesn't mean to, and he's growing much more careful these days," Phil said. "His combat efficiency was barely adequate in Harlem, better in the Chitauri battle, and quite good now."
"That doesn't erase all the damage he's done in the past," Bruce said. "You can't ask me to ignore that. I won't."
"No, it doesn't erase anything. However, it does demonstrate a changing pattern," Phil said. "I'm not asking you to forget about your previous experiences. They're not necessarily wrong, just outdated. I'm asking you to observe new events with an open mind instead of viewing them through preset assumptions. In my observation, Hulk fights to protect you, himself, or other people. He doesn't fight for sport. He's not malicious."
"He is malicious. He hates me. He hates everything," Bruce said.
This man is like a moray eel, Phil thought, half impressed and half exasperated. Once he latches onto something, he just will not let go. He takes stubbornness to a whole new depth. Then again, I suppose that's kept him alive through things that would have killed a lesser man. Denying Bruce's opinion wouldn't help. The situation called for a more tangential approach.
"I can see why you might think that based on earlier interactions," Phil said. "Consider the more recent ones, though." He tapped the Starkpad, which showed an image of Hulk getting his hair washed. "Remember, Hulk asked us to show you these pictures. He wished to share a pleasant experience with you, but was frustrated by his inability to convey the memories directly. So he turned to us for help. Does that seem like an act of hatred to you?" It was clearly an act of love, but Phil didn't think Bruce was anywhere near ready to hear that. Phil hoped that Hulk wouldn't be too distraught when he realized that the pictures had made Bruce more confused than happy.
"I don't know," Bruce said. He gave a pained chuckle. "I don't understand most of what the Other Guy does."
"I get that," Phil said. "You two seem to have a lot of trouble communicating."
"We don't communicate," Bruce said. "He's a monster. He's the boogeyman. He's the beast in the basement banging on the pipes. He can barely talk, and most of that's on the level of Hulk smash. That's all he cares about. It's all he can care about."
* * *
Notes:
Repressed memory comprises a defense mechanism to protect the mind from traumatic experiences. It shows up particularly often in relation to child abuse. There are techniques for recovering these hidden memories, which many people consider a necessary or at least helpful step in healing the damage.
Closely related to this is the issue of dissociation due to multiple personalities. Each personality may have some memories that nobody else can access; personalities may also share memories, deliberately or otherwise. In the case of traumatic memory, one personality may protect another by taking on the burden of those horrible recollections. Sometimes dissociated memories may reappear as dreams.
Combat efficiency is an expression of how much energy is directed at the enemy vs. other targets, and how effective one unit is at bringing down other units. Ideally, you want to focus tightly on the enemy, exerting minimum effort for maximum return; and you want to keep collateral damage as low as possible. Hulk starts out with very low efficiency, flailing almost at random. Then he learns to focus on enemies, but still smashes a lot of random stuff. Over time, he gets better at targeting and not hitting random things. Hulk is never going to be a precision instrument like Hawkeye, but he's made a lot of progress -- and you can see a little of that even in the canon movies.
Analyzing patterns can get complicated, especially over time. Thought patterns get engrained but they can be changed. It is crucial to pay attention to changes, because continuing to behave based on previous data can generate seriously wrong results if the pattern has shifted away from its original configuration.
[To be continued in Part 10 ...]
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Bruce Banner, Hulk.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Inferences of past child/domestic abuse. Current environment is safe.
Summary: Phil shows Bruce the cute pictures of the team helping Hulk clean up after the bilgesnipe fight. Bruce finds the whole idea more confusing than pleasing.
Notes: Teamwork. Friendship. Flangst. Hurt/comfort. Dysfunctional relationship dynamics. Trust issues. Safety and security. ALL THE FEELS. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Personal growth. Family of choice.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8. Skip to Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14.
"Coming Around" Part 9
"Ah, that's nothing," Bruce said. "You don't work in a lab without picking up a few souvenirs." Clearly he took pride in his identity as a scientist; he pointed out some of the more notable examples across the backs of his hands. "Exploding beaker. Liquid oxygen. Bunsen burner. Hydrochloric acid."
"What about these?" Phil asked, feathering a touch along the straight scars on Bruce's palm, and the thicker pucker on his forearm.
Bruce shrugged. "I don't remember," he said. "I've got enough that I can spare a few from the detailed log. I just wish the Other Guy would quit making more scars on the inside of me and the outside of everyone else."
"He doesn't mean to, and he's growing much more careful these days," Phil said. "His combat efficiency was barely adequate in Harlem, better in the Chitauri battle, and quite good now."
"That doesn't erase all the damage he's done in the past," Bruce said. "You can't ask me to ignore that. I won't."
"No, it doesn't erase anything. However, it does demonstrate a changing pattern," Phil said. "I'm not asking you to forget about your previous experiences. They're not necessarily wrong, just outdated. I'm asking you to observe new events with an open mind instead of viewing them through preset assumptions. In my observation, Hulk fights to protect you, himself, or other people. He doesn't fight for sport. He's not malicious."
"He is malicious. He hates me. He hates everything," Bruce said.
This man is like a moray eel, Phil thought, half impressed and half exasperated. Once he latches onto something, he just will not let go. He takes stubbornness to a whole new depth. Then again, I suppose that's kept him alive through things that would have killed a lesser man. Denying Bruce's opinion wouldn't help. The situation called for a more tangential approach.
"I can see why you might think that based on earlier interactions," Phil said. "Consider the more recent ones, though." He tapped the Starkpad, which showed an image of Hulk getting his hair washed. "Remember, Hulk asked us to show you these pictures. He wished to share a pleasant experience with you, but was frustrated by his inability to convey the memories directly. So he turned to us for help. Does that seem like an act of hatred to you?" It was clearly an act of love, but Phil didn't think Bruce was anywhere near ready to hear that. Phil hoped that Hulk wouldn't be too distraught when he realized that the pictures had made Bruce more confused than happy.
"I don't know," Bruce said. He gave a pained chuckle. "I don't understand most of what the Other Guy does."
"I get that," Phil said. "You two seem to have a lot of trouble communicating."
"We don't communicate," Bruce said. "He's a monster. He's the boogeyman. He's the beast in the basement banging on the pipes. He can barely talk, and most of that's on the level of Hulk smash. That's all he cares about. It's all he can care about."
* * *
Notes:
Repressed memory comprises a defense mechanism to protect the mind from traumatic experiences. It shows up particularly often in relation to child abuse. There are techniques for recovering these hidden memories, which many people consider a necessary or at least helpful step in healing the damage.
Closely related to this is the issue of dissociation due to multiple personalities. Each personality may have some memories that nobody else can access; personalities may also share memories, deliberately or otherwise. In the case of traumatic memory, one personality may protect another by taking on the burden of those horrible recollections. Sometimes dissociated memories may reappear as dreams.
Combat efficiency is an expression of how much energy is directed at the enemy vs. other targets, and how effective one unit is at bringing down other units. Ideally, you want to focus tightly on the enemy, exerting minimum effort for maximum return; and you want to keep collateral damage as low as possible. Hulk starts out with very low efficiency, flailing almost at random. Then he learns to focus on enemies, but still smashes a lot of random stuff. Over time, he gets better at targeting and not hitting random things. Hulk is never going to be a precision instrument like Hawkeye, but he's made a lot of progress -- and you can see a little of that even in the canon movies.
Analyzing patterns can get complicated, especially over time. Thought patterns get engrained but they can be changed. It is crucial to pay attention to changes, because continuing to behave based on previous data can generate seriously wrong results if the pattern has shifted away from its original configuration.
[To be continued in Part 10 ...]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2013-04-17 06:04 pm (UTC)You're welcome!
Date: 2013-04-18 03:38 am (UTC)It is sad. Part of that is because Bruce is just plain lousy at reading emotions. Part is because he thinks of Hulk as a beast. Part is because he doesn't consider himself very lovable and thinks he's too screwed up to love anyone properly. But that doesn't stop Bruce-and-Hulk from loving Betty, or her from loving and accepting both halves, which interestingly Bruce does appreciate. It's a very complicated mess.
>> This is an amazing (super : )!) case of dissociation. <<
It is, and I'm glad that it's coming across that way. Hulk contains a great deal of what Bruce considers unacceptable or unobtainable.
>> Actually it's sad for Bruce, of course, because they're basically the same person... or facets of the same person. <<
Bruce and Hulk are two personalities within the same body, aspected into different forms depending on who's fronting at the time. They share a common background, some basic memories, and certain core traits. But a lot of the memories diverge and so do many their strengths and weaknesses, which means even the common features tend to get expressed differently. Think of them as a coin: two different faces but one background between them.
>> In a way, Bruce has become one of his own incomplete identities, because he's a man without anger who can't (won't?) process his own negative feelings. <<
Aaaand, bingo! I think you're the first person to realize that Bruce is no more complete unto himself than Hulk is. Bruce relies on Hulk to handle threats and emotions; he is neither good at nor comfortable with those things on his own.
In order for them to build a more healthy relationship, they need to improve their communication -- but they also need to take on at least some more of the tasks they've been handing off to each other. It's that or switch front every time and Bruce doesn't want that. So he'll have to learn more about processing emotions on his own, rather than just suppressing them into the Hulk-trashcan. Hulk is already learning more about discernment and considering options before he acts.
>>Good luck Phil... I think Bruce is the more traumatized of all the Avengers.<<
Yes, I tend to see Bruce-and-Hulk as the most broken, based on the amount of damage visible in canon.
>> Thanks for this great, thought provoking story! <<
You're welcome! I'm glad you like it, and I enjoy the feedback.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-04-17 07:44 pm (UTC)Thank you!
Date: 2013-04-17 07:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-04-17 08:03 pm (UTC)Yes...
Date: 2013-04-17 08:07 pm (UTC)Repressed memory
Date: 2013-04-17 10:22 pm (UTC)Re: Repressed memory
Date: 2013-04-17 10:44 pm (UTC)More precisely, Hulk carries those memories as his way of protecting Bruce. So Bruce is left with some awareness of home violence -- and certainly a considerable amount of after-effects -- but very little clear memory. It cushions the impact a little bit.
This is a pattern typical of multiple systems: there is usually at least one personality who shields the others. It's very well rendered here:
http://lb-lee.deviantart.com/art/Questions-Pg-21-315151493?q=gallery%3Alb-lee%2F38264222&qo=30
Bruce-and-Hulk are, sadly, nowhere near as functional as most of my multi-souled friends. But they're making progress.
>> Scars on the palms and forearms are, unfortunately, a horrific but not uncommon indication that a child, particularly a toddler, has been burned. This usually happens when an enraged parent tries to "teach"--and I use the term very loosely--a child not to touch.<<
So far I've counted knife cuts and the one broken bone. There are likely more and different scars beyond that. Burns certainly wouldn't surprise me.
>> Of course that could be the social work training going into overdrive and I might be reading too much into it. <<
No, you're right on the mark, and using similar materials as mine.
The way I tend to interpret Bruce-and-Hulk is that Hulk predated the lab accident in some form. All described versions of the super-soldier serum have some common traits, one being that they cannot create, only enhance what is already there. So in the accident, Hulk was made manifest out of Bruce's mind, their shared body adapted to give him a form of his own. But Hulk must have existed before that.
Canon establishes a horrific background for Bruce, with his father murdering his mother. Look at the way Bruce moves in The Avengers, and especially the submissive way he reacts when threatened. He fidgets, he cringes, he mollifies. He expects to be mistreated. It's all consistent with child abuse. And there's Hulk, a spectacular example of fragmented personality. It fits.
All I did was backtrack from the canon examples, then move forward to explore how that would affect the characters.
Re: Repressed memory
Date: 2013-08-05 04:46 pm (UTC)Ruffalo is an extremely capable actor for making the physical cues so seamless and so clear.
And may I share that Hulk has most of my favorite moments in the Avengers? From "puny god" to catching Tony to the terrifying rampage through the Helicarrier... Yeah.
That "puny god" moment: pure Joss Whedon. *happy sigh*
Re: Repressed memory
Date: 2013-08-05 08:38 pm (UTC)Agreed. He is my favorite actor for these characters, and I've been a Hulk fan for decades. Each actor brings something different to the character(s). Ruffalo is the only one who's portrayed them as so beautifully broken. I just love it.
>> And may I share that Hulk has most of my favorite moments in the Avengers? From "puny god" to catching Tony to the terrifying rampage through the Helicarrier... Yeah. <<
That moment of utter torment when he looks up at Natasha, caught mid-shift. Owie.
>> That "puny god" moment: pure Joss Whedon. *happy sigh* <<
*laugh* Yeah.
And did you notice, that's another place where Hulk didn't start the fight? He just stood there glaring at Loki, until Loki laid into him with insults. I could practically hear him thinking, "Why Hulk bother being good? Loki mean. HULK SMASH!"